Rewind: Sarah and Ryan Widmer

0:10 We're getting out those decorations. Putting up the tree, and the kids are. Started downting down the back. The snot is faulting, people taking playing family Senbery is here and it's time for the holid days. Yeah, sleep boats, ringing cambos, playing some things in there. Hear that sound of Holland days ahead. Leaning on trees and rounding green A longest time to go round the Holland days ahead.

1:12 Hey, rich, it's Christmas week. I know. If that song doesn't get you in the holiday spirit, I don't know what will. Are you ready for the big show, the big show, big dance. It's not as big of a dance for me as it is for Santa and his elves. But yes, no, I'm not ready. Actually you have five well four days really, yeah, plenty of time, plenty of time. I got a late start, but I am ready all right, Well not really, but you know, I think the shopping is done. Yeah, I'm in that stage of shopping where I ordered a lot of things online and. You don't know what you are. I've lost track. I had some panic buys last night at midnight. But I think everyone's taking care of for the most. Part, especially Christmas for you, and the packages come and you don't know what's going to be inside the packages because you've forgotten what you've ordered.

1:59 Well exactly, it's like Christmas Morning for dads. You know. Dad's never really not that's not true. Some dads do all the shopping. Yeah, So our mail carrier has been a little problematic. And I don't know if it's problematic or not, but she has been leaving our packages either by the mailbox or she will literally sometimes throw them into a driveway. Yeah, like if it's a package of clothing in a plastic bag, she'll just throw it into the driveway. I'm curious if that's okay with other people. I understand that she's really busy, but it annoys me. Yeah a lot, as publicly the US Postal Service. Because I don't know what her name is. And I used to always be really diligent about giving something to the postal worker for Christmas because you had.

2:47 Your dad from a long line of postal work. Yeah, and I think it's important to recognize them. But she's always kind of rough in the runway. Yeah, she really doesn't like to get out of the mail truck if she doesn't have to yeah. Which I can't blame her. I can't. You know, it's a hard job and I appreciate her efforts. Before I give you your snack, we have a couple of faint youes that we need to give. First of all, Allison, our very sweet listener who has sent us several gifts for our cats, Cosmo and Clover, sent me the sweetest Christmas gift. I had them on earlier, but I had to take them off when I put my headphones on. But they're cute, little black cat decorated for Christmas with so sweet That was just above and beyond. Thank you so much, Alison. A few weeks ago, around the time of your birthday, our listener Kimma sent you a gift.

3:36 It was kind of a gag gift. I thought it was pretty funny. Do you remember what she said? Yeah, she sent Buckeyes, which are great. It was kind of a gag gift because they are branded in the Hiday State. Yes, yes, but Buckeyes are delicious. Chocolate peanut butter my two favorite flavors together. So yeah, thanks Kimma. Well, I do have a snack for you, actually have three snacks for you. Do you know that Little Debbie is finally getting the justice or so that I'll just see what I did there that she deserves. No, I did not know that. Well, America is obsessed with Little Debbies Christmas trees. Okay, and oh I love those Christmas trees are really good. Well there's Christmas tree dip, which is insane. You take that Christmas it's kind of like what you would do for cake bites and you put cream cheese in them.

4:22 I didn't make that because you really hate cream cheese, even though I kind of wanted to try it. But I brought you the same. Oh, it's like a mashup of a nutty bar and a Christmas tree. Yeah, and then I brought you the donut, and I bought you, brought you the Christmas tree, and you have to rank them. Okay, so you have to eat three little stacks. All right, If I have to do it, i'll do it. I was going to make the Little Debbie Christmas trees homemade, but life's lifing. We'll be right back, do you hear that? So, so rank those snacks.

5:06 They were all great, first of all, but I'm gonna go with number three is the donut. Nothing wrong with it? It was very good, a little dry. Maybe a little bit. That's why I'm rating the Christmas tree number two because it happened the cream filling in the middle. It was a lot like the donut, but a little cream. And the nutty bar thing was amazing. I do I'm crazy. Well, I'm a huge. Nutty bar fan anyway, and I'm a big little Debbie Christmas tree fan, so putting those two things together is great. Surprised you like the white chocolate coating on the nutty bar. Yeah, it was really good. Wow, I don't know who you are anymore. I'm going to go. They were all actually really good. I was kind of pleasantly surprised. Bad news. Those the Christmas cakes are hard to find it. I was really surprised that I found them. I was just looking a mire and they're not that they're sold out.

5:55 Just like cherry chip cake. Hu. Well, we do have cherry chip cake now. But I would rank a donut, nutty bar and Christmas tree. Christmas trees are really young, Yeah, really good. We decided to revisit some of the very first cases that we did in our first months of podcasts many many years ago, not that many years ago. But this is a case that I have not stopped thinking about, and I'm going to reserve my opinion to the end. So hopefully you guys don't remember it too vividly. Do you remember this case? Not very well. I remember a couple of things about it, but I am interested to hear it again because I do remember that it was interesting, but I don't remember specifically what it was. Okay, well, here is a story of Sarah and Ryan Widmer.

6:38 I did not rewrite this case. I haven't even reread it. I stand by the research, but the writing is probably different than the way we write. I think we've evolved a little bit, but we'll see. Monday, August eleventh, two thousand and eight, began like any ordinary evening for newlyweds Ryan and Sarah Widmer, but it would end in a tragedy that would devastate two families. Ryan twenty seven, Era twenty four had been married just one hundred fourteen days and were living in the Hope Well Valley Subdivision on Crested Owl Court in Mason, Ohio. By all outward appearances, they were a young, loving couple with their lives ahead of them. That evening, Sarah wasn't feeling well, so she rested on the couch while Ryan prepared dinner left over hamburgers, corn and potatoes. They spent a few quiet hours watching television, taking turns choosing the show until Ryan switched to the Bengals pre season opener around ten pm. Not long after, Sarah told Ryan that she was going to take a bath before going to bed.

7:37 As she headed upstairs, she told Ryan, I love you. Don't forget to lock up. Ryan Whidmer was born and raised in Ohio. He has two brothers. One is his fraternal twin. Ryan's parents divorced in nineteen ninety. Ryan and his brothers didn't have a relationship with their father after the contentious divorce, but they were very close to their mother, Jill. Ryan's father was not invited to his wedding. Ryan was a nice, laid back guy who didn't like confrontation. He was quiet, but warm to people quickly. He played baseball and basketball in high school and went to Miami of Ohio on a partial baseball scholarship. He graduated in two thousand and four with a degree in sports studies. After college, Ryan worked at the Warren County Convention and Visitor Bureau in the Sports Marketing department. Ryan's love for sports made his job a good fit for him. Ryan was well liked at work and had been promoted several times within the Convention and Visitors Bureau. Ryan was key in promoting Warren County to become a tourist attraction. He worked hard on the Ohio's largest playground campaign and brought some interesting sporting events to the area like a jump rope competition, a junior golf qualifier, and a gymnastics competition. The office was like family, and Ryan was known for his good, kind and helpful spirit. In two thousand and five, his co workers noticed that Ryan was leaving every day at lunchtime, missing their group lunches. He was using his lunch break to take care of his ailing grandmother, who was dying from cancer. Ryan's biggest passion in life is sports, especially

9:08 the Cincinnati Bengals. He was a proud season ticket holder. Sarah was also born and raised in Ohio. She has one brother, Michael, and in high school she played volleyball, softball, soccer, and was also a cheerleader. Sarah was beautiful and outgoing, with a vibrant smile and an infectious laugh. Although she was spunky and not afraid to speak her mind or stand up for herself when necessary, she was exceptionally organized and had an eye for detail. She had always loved going to the dentist growing up, so she decided to go to dental Hygiene's school and graduated in two thousand six. Sara's dad, Michael Stewart, died in March two thousand seven of malignant melanoma. He held a pH d In Martial Arts Sciences and Philosophy. He had trained some martial arts champions and even had copywritten his own self defense program.

9:58 Sarah was a daddy's girl, so he must have taught Sarah a few things about self defense. PhD in Martial Arts Sciences and Philosophy. That is a degree I have never heard of before. Sarah was young and healthy, but chronically tired and frequently fell asleep in odd places, movies, parties, and bars. Her brother said that she'd had a history of falling asleep in the bathtub. Dana, Sarah's good friend, was going to nursing school, and she became increasingly concerned about Sarah's health. Sarah suffered from migraines, stomach aches and persistent exhaustion. Even at noisy family gatherings or Bengals games, Sarah would fall asleep. Dana encouraged Sarah to see a doctor two weeks before her death. Sarah did go for a physical, but either she didn't mention her exhaustion to the doctor or they failed to record it.

10:47 Is it possible that Sarah had narcolepsy? She had just gone to the doctor two weeks before her death, so I don't believe she'd received any diagnosis at that time. But the symptoms do sound like narcolepsy, don't they. Yeah, But in the doctor's file there was no mention of Sarah's excessive sleepiness. Sarah was known to get to work a little early so she could take a nap before she started her shift. She often napped during her lunch hour or even between patients. She often took etcetern or ibewprofen for headaches, but she was able to adapt. Her health issues were typically only mild annoyances in an otherwise happy and act of life. When Sarah's coworkers were interviewed by police, they said that she hadn't been feeling well that day and she had a headache a sore throat and a sore neck. Chris and Dana kissed introduced Sarah and Ryan in August two thousand and six.

11:38 Chris and Ryan were college teammates and roommates. Dana and Sarah knew each other through a common friend, Ryan third wheeled a lot with the kisss Dana loved Ryan, but she thought he didn't have any game with the ladies. She knew he wanted to settle down and have kids before he was thirty. Dana thought quiet, easygoing Ryan and sweet, spunky Sarah might just hit it off. The Kiss set up a double date at an Irish pub called Brazenhead. Ryan had never been on a blind date before, so he was nervous. But the double date was the right setting to set both Ryan and Sarah at ease, and they had a great night. They soon became inseparable friends. New things were getting serious when Sarah bought a Cincinnati Bengals jersey and asked her friend Chris to teach her about football. Dana remembers Sarah saying he's the one. Shortly after they started dating.

12:29 I know it was serious with us when you bought your University of Michigan sweatshirt. You bought me one, actually, I remember. Things moved quickly for Ryan and Sarah. They bought a brand new house in February two thousand and seven. It was a perfect house for a young couple starting out, four bedrooms, three baths, and two two hundred square feet in a family friendly neighborhood. They got engaged in the spring of two thousand and seven after dating for only nine months. Ryan bought Sarah a beautiful, one care at Princess cut ring that he paid for with money inherited from his grandmother. Very specific, there wasn't I yes. His mother, Jill, went shopping for the ring with him. She adored Sarah quote they had a love like no other. One of them would say I love you more and the other would say I love you most. Ryan was so excited once he had the ring he couldn't wait to propose. He tied the ring around his dog's neck with a string. CIJ, a pitbull terrier, had been Ryan's dog long before Ryan and Sarah had met. CIJ and Sarah had a bumpy start because CJ was so possessive of Ryan, but they soon became good buddies. Ryan sent CIJ into the primary bedroom, where Sarah had just gotten out of the shower where every girl wants to propose a Ryan went down on one knee in the doorway of the bathroom and all he could get out was will you before Sarah immediately said yes. They called their parents and they were all very excited for Sarah and Ryan. Sadly, Ryan was never able to ask Sarah's dad for his approval, but he did ask Sarah's mom, bruth Anne, and she approved of

14:00 the proposal. Ironically, the location of Ryan's proposal would be the same place the EMTs would try to resuscitate Sarah's lifeless body. Just a year later, Ryan and Sarah had a lovely wedding on April nineteenth, two thousand and eight. Sarah meticulously planned every detail. Their rings were inscribed. Sarah said I love you more and Ryan said I love you most. Sarah bribed Ryan with a big screen TV to take dancing lessons to make their first dance special. They look radiant in their wedding photos. Ryan's job was to plan the honeymoon to Costa Rica. They were a beautiful couple with a bright future until August eleventh. On August eleventh, two thousand and eight, Ryan went upstairs to the primary bathroom to get ready for bed. He stripped down to his boxers and turned down the TV to watch the end of the Bengals game. Then he went into the bathroom and found Sarah floating in the bathtub, staring at the ceiling. There was foaming blood coming out of her.

14:58 Nose, which we've learned is typically and drownings. Right, Yeah, she was not moving and appeared to be dead. He pulled the plug and sat her up against the back of the tub. He patted her face and chest and set her name and got no response. He tried to call nine one one on his cell phone but couldn't get a signal, so he went to the bedroom and grabbed Sarah's phone. The call went through at ten forty nine pm. We're going to play the nine one one call and you should know that. Later it becomes very important. What's going on? She calls like an advance time. I think I was downstairs. I just came up here. She was lazy. The water, Yeah, in the bath water training right now.

15:41 I tried to do it everything I could. Right, bringing around of the water. Now, yeah, she's the water to completely drink, but she just laying her unconscious. Nothing. Who's doing the bath them? Yeah? Yeah, okay, so we'll drain the water out of them. Yeah, I want you about them. Are you scumming in here for a leaf? I had fifteen minutes half hours are here? I'm out there wanting. To TV people are Yeah, as. Much as I could. What little did I know? Nobody coming to you the way? Ryan, There's no way you can get around of the bath problem. I can try, but I haven't put the phone down where we get around of the bathtub and get her off a flat purple Okay, okay, I'm drowning the phone.

16:39 Ryan later said that he misspoke on the nine one one call. He meant to say this. Sarah was face up in the bathtub, not face down. Does anything jump out at you during that nine to one one call? He sounds very sincere and authentic to me. I know, every any time you're in that situation, it's so hard to predict how you're going to react and what you're going to say. But to me, he sounds very authentic and panicked, as one would. Yeah, I agree. This call would be painstakingly analyzed and dissected for years to come. It became the reason many people would question his innocence and judge him a criminal. Ryan never testified before a jury, so this would be the only time jurors would hear his voice. He sat beside Sarah as he talked to the dispatcher. My wife fell asleep in the bathtub, and I think she's dead, he said. The dispatcher told Ryan to get Sarah out of the tub, start CPR, and wait for emergency services to arrive. Ryan got Sarah out of the tub and placed her body in between the bedroom and bathroom, with her head and body on the bedroom carpet, her legs still in the bathroom.

17:44 He attempted to perform CPR, but he didn't really know what he was doing. He was holding the phone but also trying to breathe life into Sarah. You could hear him blowing on the phone, and some people would think he wasn't really blowing into Sarah's mouth, but faking it. Five minutes later, the first responders arrived. It's unclear how much time had passed since Ryan had drained the tub, but it could have been as long as seven or eight minutes. Droplets of water could be seen around the drain. A police officer would describe Sarah's skin as dry but her hair as damp. Investigators at the scene failed to record weather conditions that night, as well as the temperature and humidity in the house. There was also confusion as to whether Sarah's body was moved by Ryan to stage the scene because there were two spots of blood on the bedroom carpet. The bloody spots were from the foaming blood that was coming out of Sarah's mouth. Ryan insists one of the officers told him to move Sarah to have more room to perform CPR, but the officer denies this.

18:43 It's a very small area. We'll post pictures, and I think it's possible that her body was moved and no one just remembers it. Because if there's multiple people performing on her, you know, trying to revive her, I think they would have had to move to. Tight fit to'll be able to do that. Yeah, there were no visible injuries to Sarah or Ryan's body, and he was wearing only boxer shorts. There were no puddles of water or wet towels that had been used to clean up the scene. There were no towels in the dryer that had been dried before the police came. The paramedics worked on Sarah for about twenty minutes and then transported her to the ambulance, where they worked on her for another fifteen minutes, and then they took her to the hospital.

19:24 So I think the bit about the towels is important because investigators would point to it as well. If you took your wife out of the bathtub, there should be more water on the floor and you know, soaking in the carpet. And although he drained the bathtub, and we don't really know how long it was between the time he drained the tub and the time he pulled her out of the tub, but she could have been somewhat dry by the time he pulled her out. I think it's important to point out here that it was August eleventh, and we don't know the conditions of the house. We don't know if the air conditioning was on, or you know, what the humidity was. Yeah, it could potentially be really humid in August or really draw it either one. Ryan went into the ambulance and sat in front making calls to his mom and Sarah's mom while the paramedics worked on saving Sarah's life in the back. Ryan wept while talking to the mom's and told them to meet him at Bethesda Aro Springs Hospital.

20:16 At eleven forty one pm, Sarah was pronounced dead fifty two minutes after Ryan had called nine one one. During the time that the paramedics worked on Sarah, there were never any signs of life. Ryan fell to his knees and buried his face in a chair while his body convulsed with sobs. Jill Ryan's mom asked a nurse if she and Ryan could see Sarah, and the nurse said no. At twelve o eight am, Sarah's mom, Ruth Ann, was allowed to see Sarah. While still in the waiting area, police briefly talked to Ryan. He signed a consent to search. This gave the police the right to search the newlyweds home. Ryan didn't think he had anything to hide. In retrospect, Ryan realized that the police already considered Sarah's death suspicious and he was their prime suspect.

21:02 So I guess the fact that the nurse wouldn't let him see his wife was telling Even then, Yeah. I guess so. Thinking of it from Ryan's perspective, if if she died accidentally and he had nothing to do with it. Of course he wouldn't be thinking that, right, He wouldn't think that, oh, the police are probably looking at me, because to him this was a tragic, natural death. After Sarah was pronounced dead, Ryan and his mom went back to the house on Crested Owl Court so Ryan could get some clothes and things. Ryan's mom went into the house because Ryan was too upset. She noticed that the police had cut some squares of carpeting from the primary bedroom near the bathroom, but other than that, the house looked as if nothing had happened. Jill also noticed that Sarah's wedding and engagement rings were on the bathroom vanity.

21:48 She gave the rings to Ryan because she thought they might give him comfort. They went back to Jill's house, where her sister and brother in law were waiting for them. They all stayed up until five am, crying and remembering Sarah, Barah, we'll be back after a break, save. Bell bringing terrible plans. Hear that sound. Jill Ryan's mom called Ryan's boss on the morning of August twelfth to tell him the horrible news. Ryan's entire office was like family and They were all shocked and saddened. Later, they would all be questioned by the police about Ryan.

22:29 Ryan agreed to talk with a detective without an attorney present the day after Sarah's death, but several family members and friends encouraged him not to do the meeting without an attorney present. A family friend recommended Charlie Ritgers. Finding a local attorney with murder trial experience was difficult in this small town, but Ritgers had defended about six people in homicide cases. Ritgers was well respected and liked, with thirty years of experience. He thought he would act as a buffer between Ryan and the police during route questioning. Rickers thought, of course they wanted to talk to the husband. He didn't anticipate any charges. He had no reason to question his client's story. The Widmer case, though, would become the hardest and most haunting case he'd ever worked on.

23:15 The autopsy was performed on August twelfth, and the coroner ruled Sarah's death a drowning by homicide very quickly. The coroner said there were signs of a violent struggle, but I wonder if he could have been influenced by the police who wanted to make a quick arrest. While Ryan was at the funeral home making the final arrangements for Sarah's service, Ritckers called him and said there was a warrant for his arrest and he needed to turn himself in. The police had been at his home while he was at the funeral and they bagged forty three items for evidence after breaking down the front door. The police must have had some damning evidence, but they didn't divulge anything to Rigers. But if you remember, he signed a consent to search, so I'm not sure why they had to break down the front door. Rachel Hutzel, Warren County prosecutor and the tenant Jeff Brayley, lead investigator in the case, gave a press conference on August thirteenth at six pm.

24:06 Hutzel said there was trauma to Sarah's body that was only visible to the coroner. She said that a suspect named Ryan Widmer had been arrested for the drowning of his wife. They didn't give any further information to the media. They were unusually tight lipped about this case. So Ryan was taken into custody and he was never officially questioned. Sarah's family wasn't questioned there was no light detector test. Ryan planned for a second autopsy to be performed before Sarah's burial. They were hopeful that it would reveal more information than the first autopsy about the cause of Sarah's death. Ryan's attorney was mystified by the charges, especially because of the vague information of trauma the coroner had reported. What were they hiding and why more evidence wouldn't be released until trial With a minimum of information disclosed to the public.

24:56 There was so much speculation about the case, and everyone in the Cincinnati area took a side. Ryan's dad, Gary hadn't seen or talk to Ryan for eight years. He didn't even know that Ryan was married. He found out Ryan was arrested from the news, he went to see him and promised to help. He and Jill worked together hard to gather the money for Ryan's bail. On August fourteenth, Ryan's first court appearance, Mike Stewart, Sarah's brother, stood at the hearing and said that his family didn't think it was possible that Ryan was capable of killing Sarah. He said that Ryan was a hero for trying to save his sister and encouraged the judge to set a low bail so Ryan could be released to attend her funeral. The Ryan's bail was set at one million dollars because the judge considered him a flight risk. Oh, but the family was waiting to have Sarah's funeral until he could be there to attend. In the meantime, a grand jury was meeting in secret to consider the charges against Ryan, and on August fifteenth, Ryan was indicted with a charge of aggravated murder, which carries a sentence of twenty to life in prison. You might remember that an aggravated murder charge consists of purposely causing the death of another with prior planning, or intentionally causing the death of a child under the age of thirteen. So they really believe that Ryan is guilty, that he had planned this, And what do you think about that.

26:15 I haven't heard any evidence yet to tell me that he is. So I'm I'm going to say I'm not buying it yet, but maybe I'll change my mind. It seems like a rush to judgment, doesn't it. It does. Yeah, So Ryan was put under suicide watch and given one of those bests to wear when he was at trial, and he wasn't allowed to wear underwear. What he wasn't allowed bedsheets, pens, pencils, paper, or books. He was only allowed out of his cell for an hour a day at midnight, so he must have been in danger from other prisoners. I guess. Ryan was arraigned on August twentieth. Two dozen people came to support him. A judge agreed to reduce Ryan's bail to four hundred thousand dollars, and his dad paid the forty thousand dollars with money from his britiin hironment account. On the day of Sarah's funeral, Ryan was released two hours too late to attend the service.

27:06 Sarah's family let Ryan decide whether Sarah would be cremated or buried, and he chose cremation, and he said it was partly because it was just cheaper. Ryan had a lot of unwavering support from friends, family, co workers, and even the community. They created a website, Free Ryan Widmer that took donations and hosted fundraisers. Well, let's talk about the evidence a little bit. Sarah's body was face down in the bathtub, Ryan said during the nine one one call, her head was by the faucet side of the bathtub. Again, this is what Ryan said, but he would later say that he found her face up and never diverged again from this, So. He's saying that on the nine one one call, he just misspoke. Yeah, he meant to say face up, which I could understand that could happen.

27:50 Yeah. There were two diluted looking bloodstains found on the carpet where Sarah had been lying, and the stains were from the bloody froth that had come from her mouth, which, like we said, is typical and drowning. Because there were two stains, investigators thought that Ryan must have moved Sarah's body to stage the scene. Ryan claimed that the paramedics moved Sarah. Sarah had two cuts on her lip, three bruises on her scalp, a hemorrhage on her chest. I think investigators thought this hemorrhage could have been from her leaning over the bathtub or him leaning her. Over the basketb I would think it would be from CPR exactly. There were no defensive wounds on Sarah or Ryan, and Ryan's DNA was not found under Sarah's fingernails, but there was mystery DNA from an unknown female underneath her fingernails.

28:36 If you remember, Sarah's father was a martial arts expert, and I believe that he must have taught Sarah some self defense moves, and I believe that she would have fought off an attacker. There were two sets of fingerprints at the back of the tub with a scraping motion. Also, an impression of a man's arm was on the edge of the bathtub. There was a packed pink suitcase found that investigators pointed to is proof that Sarah had wanted to leave Ryan, but she had just returned the day before from a trip that she had taken with her mom. Investigators never looked into Sarah's medical issues. Ryan had four beers on Monday night, which I think people pointed to is over indulgence. How many beers do you think is excessive on a Monday night while watching football.

29:23 Everyone's different, so it's really hard to say. If someone drinks regularly a couple of beers after dinner and four is not that excessive. But if you'd never drink, having four on a Monday night would probably seem like quite a bit. There were envelopes found in the nightstand on either side of the bed that said in case of marriage emergency, well, let's talk about motive. Ryan had no history of domestic violence or abuse. You couldn't find anyone who would say a bad thing about Ryan. He had absolutely no history of violence. Sarah had never complained to a friend or relative about Ryan, and they seemed very happy. They had no financial troubles. Sarah made about sixty thousand dollars a year and Ryan made about fifty thousand dollars a year. Allegedly, he tracked her spending sometimes, though he said that she asked him to hold her accountable. Though Sarah's mom said that Sarah made more money than Ryan and it made her apprehensive, but it didn't seem to bother either one of them. They seemed to have a pretty nice lifestyle.

30:25 They had a trip planned to Cancun, and they had just picked up a new puppy. Sarah had enrolled for a life insurance at work two weeks before her death, but the policy wasn't yet active. If you were planning to kill your spouse, I would think you would want to be sure that that policy was active, right. Ryan's computers were searched and nothing unusual was found, although he had visited some porn sites and possibly a swinger's website, but his mom said it could have been a pop up ad. From one of the porn Of course, his mom is going to say that, yeah, I mean, but no, it's realistically it could have been right if pop up ad comes up up your computer looks at that as a website that you visited. The trial was originally scheduled for November seventeenth, but the defense submitted findings from a second autopsy just two weeks beforehand, prompting the prosecution to request a delay. The judge postponed the trial until March two thousand and nine. Because Ryan had been released on bond, the state had two hundred and seventy days to bring the case to trial or risk dismissal.

31:25 That's so quick. I mean, Sarah was found dead on August eleventh, in November. I mean that is really quick. Cal's super quick to have to make a whole defense. While waiting, Ryan lived at his mother's home under strict bond conditions, including a nightly curfew and frequent drug testing. He grew increasingly anxious and paranoid, convinced he was being watched, and his weight dropped dramatically. He later said the prolonged delay left him unable to properly grieve his wife while fighting for his freedom. On October eleventh, Sarah's family held a private burial. Ryan attended, but fell the family had distanced themselves from him. Sarah was buried at the foot of her father's grave, her marker reading only Sarah Anne with no last name. It was the final contact Ryan had with her family, so up until this point he talked about earlier that her brother was really until this point, Monday, March twenty third, two thousand and nine, in Lebanon, Ohio, jury selection began. Ryan's demeanor was quiet and stoic. His lawyer, Ritgers, had coached him to show as little emotion as possible.

32:31 Any emotion could be seen by the jury as him acting or trying to get their sympathy. Despite his best efforts, Ryan teered up several times. I would also think just sitting there, stoic and unemotional, would not look great for a jury either. Don't most defense attorneys tell their clients not to react, though, I think that's the key. I think that's probably true. Eighty potential jurors were called to the courtroom, it would be challenging to find jurors that hadn't already formed an opinion of Ryan, but six hours later the jury had been picked, six men and six women. The prosecutor would remind the jury that proof of motive is not required. The damning evidence that hadn't been previously released to the public was finally disclosed. Sarah had hemorrhage in the deep muscles of the neck at the midline, which could be indicative of strangling.

33:19 I know you're going to ask about the hyoid bone, and I don't know. The nine to one one operator was called to the stand. He said that Ryan's demeanor was calm during the call. Yeah, at one point he told Ryan to calm down. Yeah, I would not have called his demeanor calmn. During that call. He was giving Ryan instructions on how to do CPR, and he said he could hear Ryan breathing into the phone and thought it was possible that Ryan was just blowing into the phone. But we don't know where the phone was placed. Right, if he could have put it on the floor right next to her. Or just even right next to on her chest, right. Yeah, Ryan recalls crying heavily during the call, despite the nine one one operator's testimony. Witness number two was a deputy who had been at the crime scene. He testified that Sarah's body had not been moved. The two spots of blood on the carpet were the result of Ryan moving Sarah's body to stage the scene. The prosecution alleged Ryan said that the paramedics had moved Sarah's body from the doorway so they could have more room to work on her. The deputy also testified that Sarah was mostly dry, the bathroom was dry, the tub was dry, and Ryan was dry. If there had been a violent struggle in the bathroom, you would expect more water. Maybe Ryan had cleaned up the water, but there were no towels found at the scene or in the dryer. There was one lysol wipe found on the ledge of the tub that the police alleged had been used to clean up something.

34:41 The prosecution clung to the downstairs TV being off and not tuned into the game, while the bedroom TV was on and had the game on, indicating that Ryan had lied. It might seem like I'm defending Ryan too much, but some of this evidence I feel like isn't very good evidence. But this particular evidence Ryan had said he was downstairs watching the game. But they're saying, well, the TV downstairs was off. The TV downstairs was off. He turned the TV off, and he went upstairs to get ready for bed. But when they turned the TV on, it wasn't on the channel that the game was on. Okay, but the Olympics were also going on. And as the wife of someone who is also obsessed with sports, would I could totally see you. I think maybe Michael Phelps was swimming that night.

35:28 You would totally switch to see what was going on at the Olympics. Yes, And they also said that it was suspicious that he turned the TV on in the bedroom before he went to the bathroom. I totally think you would do that too. You wouldn't want to miss a second of the game, for sure, Like you will come upstairs. We don't have a TV in the bedroom anymore, but a lot of times if you're watching a game downstairs, you have your iPad and you literally walk up the stairs and get ready brush your teeth for bad with your iPad. Yeah, for sure. Yep. Sarah's fingers and toes had no pruning, although Ryan had said she had been in the tub for at least thirty minutes and pruning would have started. Okay here A lot of times it depends on the size of the bathtub and their bathtub I think is like kind of the standard sized bathtub, but in our bathroom, like we have a pretty nice bathtub. But even when I'm reading, like I'll read in the bathtub too, but I'll put my feet like up so you don't slip all the way down. So maybe you're and if you're reading something, your hands and your feet might not be submerged, so they wouldn't be pruning.

36:29 Yeah, that makes sense. Her body was still warm, so Ryan had called nine one one quickly. One medic said that Sarah's hair was damp. Another said her hair was wet. A Larrynge scope, which is a scope with a light and mirrors to see and examine the larynx used to place breathing tubes, had been used on Sarah. It's a difficult device to place, and the question is could that have caused the damage to Sarah's neck. It took five attempts to place it in Sarah's throat, so the damage to Sarah's neck, It sounds like the autopsy determined that that could have been caused by strangulation. But you're speculating here that the damage could have been from placing the scope down her throat. But I would think that would be a very different type of injury, like coming from the inside of the throat from the outside.

37:14 Yeah, but they were working on Sarah for forty five minutes. I think when we recorded this originally, I might have said the same thing if a twenty four year old woman, if you're called to that scene, you're gonna do anything you can to save her. Yeah, And that might be being aggressive and you know, shifting her neck, and you know there's multiple people working on her. So I think it's possible, but it does seem a little suspicious, I guess yeah. An expert witness for the prosecution said that, in her opinion, it would be impossible for someone to fall asleep in the bathtub and drown unless they were heavily sedated or drugged. Sarah had no drugs or alcohol in her system. Could Sarah have had narcolepsy or cataplexy. In both conditions, muscle control is lost and it could be possible to drown, But Sarah was never diagnosed with either of these conditions.

38:05 On the third day of the trial, the bathtub where Sarah died was brought into the courtroom coated in black fingerprint powder. The jury watched as hidden marks became visible, and an expert was called to explain them. The impressions were not detailed enough to identify who made them or when, but they included a forearm print, likely mail based on hair patterns, circular marks consistent with bottles, downward fingertips, streaks near the faucet, swipe marks suggesting an attempt to wipe the tub, and partial palm prints throughout. Unbeknownst to the jury, Lieutenant Brayley had rejected other experts who offered less compelling testimony. Even so, the expert acknowledged that there was no way to determine the timing or source of the marks, noting that natural body oils leave prints in everyday use. When pressed by the defense, the expert conceded the scene could not be recreated. I would be really curious just to take a regular bathtub, our bad tub or anybody is in fingerprinted and see what it looked like, because I can imagine there would be all sorts of marks on it.

39:05 That's a very good point I think the downward finger marks. They were saying she was struggling and she was trying to grasp onto something and that was indicative. Of her like maybe he was holding her head under the water and she was grasping. Yeah. Lieutenant Brayley was called to the stand and said that he was surprised at how dry the bathroom was. The tub, carpet, and surrounding area were all dry, except for a few droplets around the tub drain. What he didn't say, though, is that two and a half hours had passed since the nine one one call had been placed and the crime scene was investigated. A forensic scientist had also testified that the floor had been wet. The bloody carpet. Samples that had been cut from the bedroom were put into a paper bag. The paper bag had water stains and the bottom of the bag had soaked through. Brayley also admitted that the fingerprint dusting powder used on the tub hadn't been used until two days after Sarah's death. That Sarah worked for testified that she often went to her car during breaks and took a nap. He also said that she hadn't felt well at work on the day of her death. The dentist also testified that Sarah had asked about life insurance and retirement planning, telling him that Ryan had been on her ass about it. What she didn't tell him, though, was that Ryan and Sarah had met with a financial planner after their wedding and they recommended these things to them. Sarah's mom took the stand and said Sarah didn't have any health problems and she had never fallen asleep in the middle of a conversation like Ryan said that she had. She also said Ryan controlled her spending. On the fourth day of the trial,

40:38 the coroner testified. Photos of Sarah's autopsy were shown on the big screen in the courtroom. The neck hemorrhage was about four inches and a two inch bruise was found above her sternum. The coroner said he thought those injuries could have been the result of being hit and not from the paramedic team that frantically tried to bring Sarah back. So wouldn't you think if she was strangled, she would have had more bruising than just one four inch bruise. I would think so, and likely they would have been in the shape of fingers or fingertips. Yeah, I would think that too. Sarah had cuts inside her upper lip that the coroner said he hadn't seen before from life saving measures, but it was possible. She also had several small bruises around her head and neck, none severe enough to cause unconsciousness. The coroner was sure, however, that the cause of her death was drowning, based on the fluid in her lungs and sinus cavities. The coroner was privy to some additional photos taken during a second autopsy, and another bruise had appeared on Sarah's neck after the first autopsy. Sometimes fresh bruises take time to appear. It was about the size of a thumb. The prosecution proposed that the bruise could have been the result of Ryan putting pressure on Sarah's carotid artery, which could cause unconsciousness if held for thirty seconds. The coroner maintained that he believed Sarah's death was homicide. When the defense questioned the coroner, he agreed that the chemo dilution, which is water entering the victim's blood, could cause bruises to look worse. The

42:11 CPR attempts could also have made some of the bruising appear more severe. Rickers, Ryan's attorney got the coroner to admit he wasn't bored certified and it was possible that Sarah could have had a seizure, and he wasn't qualified to examine her brain as to whether or not Sarah did have a seizure. Rickers also questioned the coroner about the lack of trauma to Sarah's neck. Typically, when someone is strangled, their hyoid bone is broken, but Sarah's was intact. Huh. The coroner said that even though there was no broken hyoid bone or severe bruising, he could not rule out a possible strangulation. While not ruling out a possible strangulations a lot different than saying you think there was a strangulation.

42:54 On the fifth day of the trial, the prosecution called their twentieth and final witness, doctor Charles Lee, a forends pathologist from Ohio. He agreed with the coroner's assessment, adding emphatically that it had to be a homicide. He also said that it was possible Sarah had drowned in a toilet or sink. On Monday, March thirtieth, the sixth day of the trial, the defense took over. Doctor Werner Spitz was the first witness. He had performed the second autopsy three days after the Warren County Coroner had performed his autopsy. Doctor Spitz was a high profile pathologist that had performed autopsies on JFK. Martin, Luther King Junior, Mary Joe Kopeckney.

43:34 That's the woman that the film chap Equittic is based on, Richard Ramirez, also known as the night Stalker Killer, and Kaylee Anthony. He worked on the John Benet Ramsey case and accused her brother Burke of being the killer. Burke later sued him. Spitz explained that during drownings, lungs absorbed more water, blood pressure rises and causes red blood cells to explode, which releases hemoglobin into the body, and the result is more bleeding, which causes injuries to appear more exaggerated. The bruises on Sarah's head could have been from her hitting her own head on the bathtub during a seizure. He didn't think they were from a blow to the head because they would probably be more severe. Spitz said that the cause of death was drowning, but the manner of death was uncertain. Spitz said that it was possible Sarah's death could have been caused by a sudden cardiac event or a first time seizure.

44:28 I apologize for all of this trial information. I think since our first year we have tried to reduce all of the trials stuff to make it more concise and summarized. But so much of the evidence in this trial wasn't released until they were actually at the trial. I actually think it's interesting going through the kind of the evidence in this level of detail and hearing both the prosecution and defense's interpretation of the evidence. We'll be back after a break. Terrible plant. That so, Sarah's friend Amy was the last person she had talked to other than Ryan before her death. Sarah told Amy that she had a bad headache and pain in her neck. This was about seven pm. Amy said Sarah hadn't sounded good. She did hear Ryan in the background and the couple seemed fine. Ruth Anne, Sarah's mom, had testified that she talked to Sarah somewhere between five and seven PM and she hadn't mentioned not feeling well to her. But Sarah's boss had testified that she hadn't felt well that day. Several friends testified that Sarah had frequent headaches or migraines, sometimes with visual disturbance. Migraines can be a precursor to epileptic seizures. Many of the character witnesses testified about Sarah's sleep issues. All of the witnesses said that Ryan and Sarah seemed happy together and Sarah had never said anything other than good things about Sarah

46:01 was sweet and kind, but also assertive when necessary, and no one could imagine her not fighting back if someone was trying to hurt her. On the seventh day of the trial, everyone finally found out what was in the two envelopes that were labeled in case of a marriage emergency. Prior to the wedding, Ryan and Sarah had attended marriage counseling through their church, and all engaged couples were given these envelopes that contained marriage support brochures. So that's all that it was sounded like it was more scintillating, right. Yeah, that's actually what I would have guessed it was. But yeah. An emergency room doctor testified that he believed all of the bruising on Sarah's body was from the medical interventions used to save her life. He said resuscitation is not a delicate procedure and a lot of forces required, especially when the patient is unresponsive, and especially because Sarah was so young, they wanted to do anything they could to save her life. The er doctor continued to explain that each year in the US third three hundred thousand people die of unexplained deaths, and up to two percent of those deaths the current people under the age of thirty two, and their autopsies reveal no discernible cause of death.

47:12 That's kind of crazy. Another witness for the defense, a forensic pathologist who was also certified in anatomical pathology and neuropathology, testified that the suspicious bruising on Sarah's neck and chest was most likely due to a chest tube placed by the medics. The prosecuting attorney asked this same witness why he thought Sarah's body was dry when the paramedics arrived. He was ready for this question. He said that just that morning he had decided to not towel off to see how long it took his skin to dry. He said he knew it wasn't scientific, but after seven minutes he was dry, and that was the length of Ryan's nine one one call. He was the last witness for the defense. Ryan had decided not to testify. Closing arguments began on day eight.

47:57 The prosecution alleged that rigor mortis was setting into Sarah's body by the time the paramedics had arrived on the scene, indicating that Ryan had not called nine one one until he had cleaned up the scene. But his claim had not been mentioned prior to closing arguments or by any expert witness, nor did any evidence support this claim. Ritgers objected, and the judge allowed it and said the jury can decide what is evidence. I seem to recall earlier and I don't know what the source of this was, but we had mentioned that her body was warm also, so that seems to contradict this whole rigor mortis. Ritger's closing arguments centered on the dry theory, how in actuality the rug samples were wet and the magazines found near the tub had crinkled pages. He also focused on the lack of motive and the lack of any signs of struggle on either Ryan or Sarah's body. And remember Ryan was just wearing his box or shirts. But I guess he could have taken off his clothes, but the jury began deliberations around noon. They requested to see the bathtub again. Everyone wondered what that might mean. Most of the people waiting around for the verdict were Ryan's supporters.

49:03 The jury worked until eleven forty five pm and came back at nine a m. The next day. At eight twenty six pm, on day two of deliberations, they reached a verdict. The jury filed in avoiding eye contact with Ryan. On the count of aggravated murder, Ryan was found not guilty. Tears filled his eyes and applause filled the room. On the count of murder, Ryan was found guilty. Everyone in the courtroom was gobsmacked. People were weeping and calling out, oh God. Even the media seemed shocked. Ryan doubled over when the verdict was read and later said he'd felt like he'd been hitt in the stomach with a sledgehammer. The judge told Ryan the sentence for murder was fifteen years to life. Then he asked Ryan if he had anything to say. He kissed his wedding ring and said, I love my wife. I did not hurt her. Leaving the court room, Ryan could be heard sobbing, and he said, I have been good all my life. I would never hurt anyone, especially kill someone. How could this be happening to me? So at this point Ryan had a great deal of public support. The majority believed in his innocence.

50:05 The Freryanwidmer dot com website and message board received over one hundred thousand views the first month. Free Ryan T shirts, bumper stickers, and other merch was produced. Fundraisers, including golf outings, were held to assist the Widmers in paying for his defense. A juror was interviewed and he said that the dry bathroom and dry Sarah were the things that they struggled with the most, but also ryan stoic demeanor, which his attorney told them say right yeah. He also said that the jury didn't believe the timeline of the nine one one call. It took Ryan twenty nine seconds to take Sarah out of the tub. The jury used a stop, watched and re enacted the nine to one one call.

50:48 So this is problematic because the jury is not using the evidence produced during the trial but doing their own investigation. So they were speculating that twenty nine seconds to take Sarah out of the bath was not long off for too long, because it's like, I haven't tried this, but it seems pretty reasonable to me. I think so too. I'm not sure what they meant. Warren County prosecutor Rachel Hudzell gave a post verdict interview defending the conviction, citing the nine to one to one call is key evidence and suggesting Ryan should have testified. She also publicly disclosed that Ryan had visited a swinger's website, information the judge had barred from trial. Ryan's attorney, Charlie Rikers, pushed back, noting there was no evidence Ryan had ever interacted with anyone on the swinger website. Hutzell also released re enactment videos of Sarah's death, material the judge had likewise excluded from the courtroom. That's underhanded, isn't it.

51:44 Yeah, it's almost like you're trying to convince the media and the public of his guilt with evidence that wasn't allowed in trial, right, and that does seem underhanded. A week after the trial ended, Rickers filed an appeal and asked for Ryan to be acquitted and given a new trial, based on poor evidence and theories given by the prosecution that changed based not on fact, but suspicions and hunches. After the trial, one juror named John was plagued with guilt over how deliberations had been handled. Just days later, he consulted an attorney, who advised him to contact the judge. After further reflection, John instead reached out to Ryan's attorney, Charlie Whitkers. In his letter, John revealed that three jurors had conducted their own at home experiments to determine how long a body or bathroom rug takes to dry after a bath. One durer reported checking her bathroom rug hours after bathing her child and shared the results with the jury the next day.

52:43 That's a real no no. Such independent investigations violated jury rules, which requires verdicts to be based solely on evidence presented in court. The jurors and formal experiments were conducted in uncontrolled settings and bore little resemblance to the conditions of Sarah's bathroom on a summer night in August. I can see in this case how tempting it is to do that at hard because it's you know, we all get out of the shower every day, and right, it. Would be tempting, but they're explicitly instructed not to do that sort of thing. Rickers had John sign an affidavit based on his letter, and then amended his appeal with the new information provided by John. John had made it clear that he thought the jury had come to the correct conclusion, but he was uncomfortable that the jurors did their own research. Two more jurors also signed affidavits confirming John's story. After the news broke about the jury issues, a Cincinnati Inquirer poll found that eighty percent of the public thought that Ryan deserved a new trial. The prosecution was able to get affidavits from seven additional jurors who said that the drying experiments by them didn't impact their decision, but two of the jurors affidavits did state that the drying experiment impacted their decision.

53:54 I mean, even if just one juror said it impacted their decision, then definitely. And I guess we don't know, you know, the conditions of that night, And like you pointed out, which is a really good thing to point out, is you know, he sat her body up first on the wall of the tub, right, and then he took her out. So a lot of you know the water would have evaporated in that time. Yep. And the woman who compared like the bathtub from like bathing her child, I mean, they're probably could have been more splashing. You just don't know. On July twenty second, two thousand and nine, the judge ruled that Ryan must be granted a new trial based on the external influences of the jury. The judge ordered Ryan back to the county jail instead of prison, where he would await his trial, and his bail was once again set at one million dollars. And his family they're not wealthy people, so it was I think really hard on them. Charlie, Ryan's attorney, said that the day Ryan was granted a new trial was one of the happiest days of his life. And September third, Ryan's bail was produced to four hundred thousand dollars and Ryan's family was able to scrape together to release within two hours. Ryan and his family were thrilled, but things were also challenging with his family. The mounting legal bills were overwhelming. Gary and Jill Widmer had both spent every penny they had and empty their retirement accounts to pay for his defense.

55:15 Ryan's house on Crested Al Court had gone into foreclosure and they sold everything that they possibly could. The emotional and financial stress was overwhelming, especially to Jill. She turned to alcohol to lessen her burden, and her family didn't know how to help her or how seriously troubled she truly was. That's really sad. On September eighteenth, two thousand and nine, Dateline aired an episode titled The Mystery in the Master Bedroom about Ryan and Sarah, just two weeks before Ryan's second trial began. The broadcast renewed public interest in the case and led to a surge in traffic to the Free Ryan website. Before the second trial, Ryan hired three new attorneys from Cincinnati, believing the case was too complex for a single small town lawyer. Regional attorney had performed well, but was viewed as not aggressive enough. During the first trial, Rickers uncovered discrepancies in the credentials of Lieutenant Jeff Brayley, the lead investigator, including false claims about a master's degree and prior work as a postal inspector. Although Rickers chose not to use this information at the first trial, he shared it with the new defense team, who planned to introduce it. The judge, however, ruled it inadmissible. Judge Bronson, who had presided over the first trial, also oversaw the second.

56:32 Do you think that information should have been allowed in the trial? You know, I don't. It's a good question. I don't really know. I mean, what he lied about had no relevance to the case at all, but it does seem. Point to him, Yeah, not being the most honest and forthright person, which I feel like is pertinent. Yeah, I guess so. There were also questions about the nine to one to one dispatcher's performance. On his call with Ryan. He sounded sleepy and had been known to fall asleep on the job before. That's not a good thing for a nine one one operator. No, I thought about that when we listened to the call. That he did sound a little bit if someone woke him up, a little out of it. Yeah. There were long pauses on his call with Ryan, and he had failed to give him CPR instructions when he said he didn't know how to administer CPR. The nine one one dispatcher issue caused an uproar in the community, and the county's emergency management director resigned. The defense attempted to get the nine one one call excluded from evidence, but the judge ruled it could still be used. The defense was excited about an expert witness they found that could answer the question about how long it would have taken Sarah's body to dry on the night of her death.

57:40 By analyzing the weather the night Sarah died, as well as the floor plan of the Widmer house and their HVAC, he determined that it was possible Sarah could have been dry by the time the paramedics arrived. The prosecution argued that his methods were unreliable, and the judge ruled in their favor. So the witness wasn't allowed to testify. We've said it before, but judges really can affect the outcome of a trial. Yeah, that is strange. I'd love to know more details about why the judge ruled that that testing wasn't reliable, because an expert witness should if they're an expert, you know, they should be allowed to conduct their experiments the way that they think is right. So it's kind of strange.

58:20 On Monday May tenth, twenty ten, trial number two started. Jury selection took two days, with both sides proceeding cautiously. On the third day of the trial, jurors visited the Widmer home on Crested Owl Lane. The defense wanted them to see the small bathroom where Sarah drowned, arguing that any violent struggle would have caused more injuries to both Sarah and Ryan and more damage to the space. Ryan did not enter the house, remaining in the garage due to the emotional toll. I believe this field trip was a little awkward because someone else was living in the house at the time that. Would be very awkward. Ruth Ann Steward took the stand at the second trial, but this time she took a more aggressive stance, saying that Sarah and Ryan argued and gave vague examples. No other witness to Sarah and Ryan's marriage would describe them as argumentative. One of the female defense attorneys made a point of telling ruth Anne that on the night of Sarah's death, she had been his first call, and he'd called her five times before he reached her, and he had called her before calling his own mom, and she hadn't known this. A doctor testified for the prosecution that Sarah probably had over four thousand chess compressions, yet no bruising appeared in the area where he would expect bruising to occur. He was implying that the other bruises may have been the result of injuries caused by Ryan. The defense followed this question up with a different doctor who agreed that the hemorrhage found on Sarah's chest during the autopsy could have been caused by

59:50 the chest compressions. The prosecution wrapped up after three long days of witness testimony, much of it being medical experts, which can be tedious for hers jury. Legal experts pontificated that the prosecution's case was not as strong. In trial number two. The defense focused on character witnesses the first three days, but then on the fourth day, doctor Spitz, the famous pathologist, returned and once again said the bruising on Sarah was due to the increased water in her blood, which caused greater pressure in her veins, resulting in burst red blood cells and increased bruising. And he also agreed that the hemorrhage the coroner used to rule Sarah's death a homicide was due to the medical interventions to revive Sarah.

1:00:35 Spitz also said that there was no evidence of a heart problem or seizure, but that couldn't be ruled out. Another medical expert was brought in and made some startling claims, among them, a hot bath can induce a seizure. The average age of a first time seizure is twenty three point eight, that Sarah was twenty four. One person in one hundred will suffer a seizure in their lifetime. Many heart and neurological issues are not detectable in an autopsy. The doctor testified for over five hours. On Wednesday, May twenty sixth, the closing arguments were presented. The prosecution played the nine to one one tape and brought in its star witness, the Bathtub. The defense argued that there were more questions than answers in the case and there must be reasonable doubt of Ryan's guilt. After about twenty hours of deliberation over two and a half days, the jury told the judge they were struggling to reach a unanimous verdict.

1:01:29 He urged them to continue, but they remained divided. Deliberations paused for a Memorial Day weekend and resumed on Tuesday, June first. By the end of that day, after roughly thirty hours total, the jury was still deadlocked. In response, Ryan's attorneys filed a last ditch motion asking the judge to acquit him based on the hung jury. We'll be back after a break. Bringing cal plaguing Sura that so. During the second trial, Jill, Ryan's mom, was having a serious nervous breakdown and battle with alcoholism. Her behavior was unhinged and dangerous. She was arrested for drunk driving. She would send horrible emails and text messages to people in the middle of the night, and even referred to Ryan as a murderer. She was sent to rehab in psychiatric words, but nothing could help the once successful and unflappable Jill.

1:02:31 In the summer after trial number two, the media found out about a document that a witness brought forwarde from the dental office where Sarah worked. It revealed that Sarah had self reported that she had been diagnosed with a heart murmur on a health history form from two thousand and six, two years before her death. Judge Brownson didn't allow this to be used in the second trial, but Ryan's defense team used it in their appeal. The heart murmur was diagnosed when Sarah was a baby, and had corrected itself as heart murmurs often due in small children, but Sarah had never again been seen by a heart specialist. As many as seven jurors from trial number two thought Ryan was innocent, and three of them signed affidavits encouraging Judge Bronson to acquit him. Four of the jurors attended Ryan's acquittal hearing in August and said on the front row to support him, but the judge denied the motion and set the date for the third trial January twenty eleven.

1:03:26 Third trial. After spending more than five hundred thousand dollars on the first two trials, Ryan's family was financially exhausted. A donor step forward to contribute sixty thousand dollars towards his defense. Two of the defense attorneys from the second trial returned, and a third, Charles Ritker's son also named Charles, who had represented Ryan in the first trial, join the team pro bono. In a fascinating turn up events, prosecutors offered Ryan a plea deal before the third trial started. He would plead to a lesser charge, he would get a five year sentence. Ryan's said no way would he ever plead guilty. He was adamant that he had not killed his wife. The prosecution had a witness listed on court documents as Jane Doe. The trial was set to start, but the judge gave the defense a few days to prepare for this new mystery witness mystery Witness Yeah. The trial began on January twenty sixth, twenty eleven. They again went to Crestadowle Court. During opening arguments, the prosecution revealed that the mystery witness was a young woman from Iowa who had connected with Brian through the Free Ryan Whidmer website after watching a Dayline episode. The two communicated frequently by text, email and phone. She later claimed that during one late night phone call, Ryan confessed to killing his wife.

1:04:44 The two bloodstains found on the bedroom carpet had long challenged the defense. In the third trial, they offered a new explanation. The second stain may have been from menstrual blood. A tampon was recovered from the trash, and a paramedic testified that menstrual fluid was vis visible when he was doing chess compressions on Sarah. Ruth Ann Stewart, Sarah's mom, once again took the stand and this time, she was even more aggressive in her statements and said Ryan and Sarah were hateful to each other. It's quite an evolution over the course of three trials. Yeah guesps could be heard throughout the courtroom, and Ryan was also shocked. Then the so called mystery witness testified on February second. Her name was Jennifer Jean Crue thirty six, a bartender and club manager with a prior conviction for theft and fraud and a long history of prescription drug addiction, including five years in a methadone program. She and Ryan had been corresponding for about twelve days when she claimed he called her in the middle of the night, drunk and crying and confessing I did it. I killed Sarah.

1:05:47 Under cross examination, Crewe admitted to being treated for bipolar disorder and depression, and acknowledged that she had sent Ryan a photo of a friend rather than herself. Investigators found no phone records support arding the alleged late night phone call. A pathologist who had testified at the previous trials was called again as a witness for the prosecution. He said that injuries can be incurred during resuscitation that can look like inflicted injuries, but also an epileptic seizure could also produce a neck hemorrhage because of neck jerking. He also reinforced the idea that the coroner hadn't ruled out cardiac, neurological or narcolepsy in his autopsy. After eight days of prosecution witnesses, the defense took over on February seventh. The defense had the usual periode of Ryan's steadfast character witnesses.

1:06:37 The defense offered up a gruesome but effective experiment using pig brains to prove that the coroner hadn't adequately studied Sarah's brain. For brain tissue to be analyzed properly, the brain needs to be set and preservative for a couple of weeks. Unfixed brain tissue had the consistency of warm jello, so it can't be sectioned and studied. Once the brain is cut into, it be fixed, so the second autopsy wasn't able to do the thorough brain examination that was needed in this case. Fixed brain tissue has the consistency of velveta cheese. In case you were. For putting that visual surprise there. The defense also raised Anderson Taowill syndrome. A rare form of long QT syndrome that can be congenital or developed later in life. The condition can cause abnormal heart rhythms, fainting, temporary paralysis, and is associated with an increased risk of sudden death and drowning. It is often undiagnosed unless detected by an EKG. Some physical traits have been linked to the syndrome, including cleft palate and certain facial features which I believe Sarah had. There's a one picture that I'll post that there's a certain curvature that people with this syndrome have to their face that it looks like Sarah could have had. Interesting At the end of the trial, the prosecution approached the judge to add involuntary manslaughter as a possible charge, and the judge agreed. Did the prosecution question whether they had made their case or were they just covering themselves.

1:08:07 Based on the fact that they tried to get him to take a plea deal also makes me think they are questioning their case. The defense once again chose not to have Ryan testify. There was little new evidence in the third trial aside from the testimony of Jennifer Crew, but her credibility was sharply questioned, I'm actually kind of surprised with all the issues that she had that they allowed her to testify. Yeah. In closing arguments, the defense highlighted that Jennifer had used six different last names, she had four convictions for crimes of dishonesty, and struggled with years of substance abuse, including a five year addiction to OxyContin and three years on methadone. They argued her background made her an unreliable witness.

1:08:47 Yeah, seems like the prosecution was kind of reaching a little bit. After roughly twelve hours of deliberation, far shorter than expected, the jury returned with a verdict. Ryan's supporters filled the courtroom, though his mother was he notably absent. The jury found Ryan guilty of murder, the more serious charge. Asked if he wished to speak, Ryan maintained his innocence, saying his life had been destroyed, that he loved Sarah and would never harm her, and that after more than two years, he still only wanted answers about what happened to her. He described the emotional and financial toll of the case before saying simply, this is just not right. Outside the courtroom was the biggest bombshell get I'm shocked that they were able to keep this a secret. Kim Ryan's stepmom was holding a baby, a baby named Ryan Widmer. Ryan had met Sarah, a different Sarah in September two thousand and nine. She had written to him after the Dateline episode aired and they started an online relationship, but they met in late October and Sarah became pregnant. The baby was born in the summer of twenty ten. The jury never knew about Sarah number two and Ryan.

1:09:56 I mean, I don't think it's relevant to the case at all, but it is interesting. Some jury members spoke to the media after the verdict was read. One called Ryan a punk and the jury could tell he was guilty just by looking at him. That's how you should be making your judgments as a juror. Another juror said that they thought Ryan had snapped, which a had never been introduced as evidence or a theory by the prosecution, and B If they thought that Ryan snapped, that's what the involuntary Exactly, yeah, exactly. Another juror said the evidence did not prove him innocent. Were they even paying attention? It's innocent until proven empty. People should know that. Another juror said they were bothered that Ryan didn't testify, despite the judge giving them specific instructions not to hold that against him. These are all like his rights.

1:10:43 Yeah. In a poll by the Cincinnati Inquirer, fifty three percent of the reader said that the jury got it wrong. I'm surprised that it's not higher than that. Before the trial ian ended, a juror's friend contacted Ryan's defense team and said that the juror said that the jury had already made up its mind. Again, this is before they were deliberating that Ryan was going to quote burn in Hell. Another juror later spoke on a radio show and falsely stated that the coroner had ruled out narcolepsy, despite testimony that he did not know how to assess it. Additional reports of jura misconduct led to a hearing on whether a new trial was warranted, but the judge ultimately denied the motion. Wow yeah so Datelin replayed an updated version of Ryan's episode, now including an interview with the new Sarah.

1:11:33 Public opinion soured after this airing. Ryan came off as angry. He called Sarah's mom a liar and claimed that the paramedics and police were conspiring against him. Ryan's mom, Jill, was struggling and she was embarrassed and angry that Ryan had gotten involved with another woman and had had a baby. She wrote on Facebook that the new Sarah was a user and Ryan was in jail where he belonged WOW. The day after the verdict, and investigation was launched into Lieutenant Jeff Brayley, the lead investigator in the Whidmer case, over credibility issues tied to his HR file. Although Braley claimed the records were falsified, investigators determined he had been dishonest about his prior employment, and he resigned before facing discipline.

1:12:17 His credibility was later further damaged in a federal civil case involving an unlawful police raid, where Brayley and other officers were found liable for numerous civil rights violations. This history provides important contact for Brayley's role in the Whitmer investigation, raising concerns about his judgment and conduct. In July twenty thirteen, Ryan's brother discovered their mother, Jill fifty five, deceased in her home, where she had been for several days. Ryan wanted to attend her funeral, but the family could not afford the cost of the security that was required for him to be present. That's very sad. You may have said it already, but what was Ryan sentenced to. I don't think I said it. He was sentenced to fifteen years to life. In a prison interview with author Janice Hissel, who wrote Submerged, Ryan Whidmer, His Drowned Bride and the Justice System, which I read for this case, and it's an excellent book, Ryan described the knight Sarah died, saying she went upstairs to take a bath around ten pm.

1:13:15 She kissed him and said I love you, and walked away on her tiptoes, something she did occasionally. Hissel later found research linking toe walking to seizures, a connection Ryan had noted early on in his case, but which was never pursued. A friend also called recalled Sarah walking on her tiptoes. In conclusion. The Stewards have never publicly spoken out about the case. Ruth Ann moved out of state to be closer to her son. Ryan and the new Sarah broke up, but he still sees his son sometimes in prison. Ryan's attorneys are now fighting for the release of Sarah's DNA so it can be tested for long QT syndrome. The state has possession of Sarah's DNA and it's unlikely they'll ever release it. Her position is that if Sarah's DNA tests positive for long QT syndrome, her death could still possibly be a homicide. The Free Ryan Widmer Facebook page is still active with about six thousand members, but it took quite a hit. Remember he had, like, you know, over one hundred thousand followers. Twice a year, his supporters raise funds for him so he can buy special food items. Ryan enjoys pop Tarts and Skyline Shelly.

1:14:27 Ryan has lots of regular visitors in prison and trice his best to stay positive. He has worked as a teacher's aide, a law library clerk, and also works with foster dogs. Ryan will first be eligible for parole in twenty twenty five, and that hearing took place this July and he was denied parole. So I wrote this before we used to include the rest and peace segment. But rest in peace Sarah. She seemed she was a beautiful young woman who had you know, a whole life ahead of her. Yes, much much too young. Yeah, very sad. Story. So what do you think? I think Ryan was unjustly convicted. I really don't see it. I don't see the evidence there. At the very least, there's reasonable doubt. But I think based on what I've heard, he seems completely innocent to me.

1:15:14 That's what I think too, and that's why this case is stuck with me. And there has been, as far as I can tell, no movement with the Innocence Project or any other Do you what do you think Sarah's cause of death was. I mean, I don't know, but I think it's some kind of unexplained medical event just based on her history. It seems like there was so much there, with her constantly falling asleep or headaches her childhood, you know, heart murmur, There's so many things there. And you mentioned it early on in the case about how many people die every year from unexplained causes that are not you know, they can't figure out even after an autopsy, And it just seems like that is the most likely scenario, just based on everything. How she wasn't feeling well that day. So there's so much reasonable doubt in my mind.

1:16:00 Yeah, I definitely think that there is reasonable doubt. The thing that I cannot wrap my head around is motive. And it's unfair because I say this a lot, like the most dangerous men to me are like the men with like Chris Watts, who has never been violent in his life. And we did say that Ryan was a really nice guy, that he was well liked, he had never been violent to Sarah or anyone else in his life. But in this case, I don't see a motive at all. They were married for I think it was one hundred and fourteen days. There's just there is no motive unless you know, you want to believe he snapped, but I. Just don't know evidence to show that, right. It really bothers me too that her mom, you know, went from early on like yeah, you know, they seem like they were perfectly happy together, and then in trial number two while they argued a lot, and then trial number three, well they hated each other. Just I really that bothers me.

1:16:49 I'm not defending her, but I can understand that trajectory to a certain point, like she just wanted to know why her daughter isn't here anymore, and it you know, she was just looking for for any and I think she just came to the conclusion that he was guilty. She wanted him to pay for the crime, and she probably just searches her brain every night, like what happened, you know, and she just finds these little tidbits of yeah, you know, they did argue sometimes. Or what every couple does. So I still have like a lot of questions about Sarah's health, especially like, you know, did she not sleep well at night? Did she have sleep apnea? Was that way she was? So? Why was she so tired all the time. Yeah, I wish she had talked to her doctor about it and gotten some kind of diagnosis, but obviously that didn't happen.

1:17:34 So what is a relative term? And it's used so much in this case and a lot of the jurors were impacted by that that there wasn't the crime scene wasn't wed enough, and we just don't know, like you had pointed out astuteley that he drained the bathtub. It's summer, and I feel like a lot of the water would have evaporated quickly. Yeah, I just think there's nothing strong enough there to make a conviction. It's just too many variables involved. We don't know what the carpet was like, we don't know, you know, how thick the bathroom rug was. Well, and remember though that the carpet tile or they cut out some of the carpet and it was so wet that is. Yeah, depending on who was testifying, Sarah's hair was some degree of data or wet.

1:18:22 Yeah. Yeah, And we don't know how thick her hair was. Like your hair dries in minutes, right, oh yeah, my hair, I mean it takes hours for your hair. Sometimes it takes a long time. So we just we don't know how thick her hair was. I think Sarah was rather petite and Ryan was six foot two and he weighed at least one hundred pounds more than Sarah. And I feel like if he would have killed her in a fit of rage, there would have been more bruises. There was no bruises on him, bruises other than the ones that I think could be explained by the CPR attempts. Yeah, And I would think the bathroom would be, you know, just kind of demolished. If there was a fight like that in the bathroom and killed her in a fit of rage, I would think there would be damage.

1:19:02 I think one thing that I have not mentioned is shampoo bottles and soap and conditioner. I think they had been knocked off of the bathroom, like off of the edge of the tub, Okay, and that was pointed to by prosecutors as evidence of a struggle. Oh but that could also happen if you were trying to take her body out of the tubs. Yeah, so I think any of this evidence can be explained away. I don't know. I'm curious what our listeners think. Let us know what you think about this case, and how do you think that Tina from the past did on this case. I think you did great. I think it's really well researched and well written. I was looking back at the script that I'm working out for the next episode, which was our very first case. Is what I'm going to be doing, and it's pretty batt well.

1:19:47 It was a very first case too, though this one. Not sure when I did. I think it was pretty early on. It was in the first year, but I don't know. But yeah, I think I did a pretty okay job. I think you did too. I wanted to say one other thing real quick. This reminds me a little bit, just a little bit of another case from Ohio, the Matthew Moore and Emily Noble case where she it seemed like she died by suicide, but it seemed like the police really wanted it to be a murder. And I feel sort of the same in this situation that this mad. This is probably a reach, but you know, these kind of small town cops, it it's going to be much more interesting to investigate a murder than to declare it undetermined or not. You can't make an arrest or you can't know what happened, and it just feels like they really rushed to judgment.

1:20:30 They did. Ryan never sat down for a formal interview. Yeah, that has always bothered me. Yeah, and they never even asked him, right, No, they. Just arrested him. Well, that is a story of Sarah and Ryan Widmore. A lot of it came back to me after hearing it again, and really really interesting story. Yeah, it really makes me mad all over again. Yeah, but maybe I you feel differently. Let us know what you think. Yeah, we would love to hear what you think. Bringing hear that sound. Well, that was a lot. That was originally a two part episode, and I made it a slightly more concise at the end. But I'm sorry if I went too deep in on the trial information. I felt like that went on for a little bit, but.

1:21:19 Yeah, it was still interesting though. I thought, Yeah, so, how are you going to spend the rest of your Saturday in December? I am going to go Christmas shopping for you someone. I love you, honest to goodness. You really don't have to, Okay, Actually seriously, I was like, I would really love to just like walk around and look at some Christmas lights and maybe go out to dinner. And I promise you I don't need anything else. I have everything I need to get you. I didn't get you a tie. Yeah, I didn't get you a ton, So that's fine. Oh, do you want to talk about the really stupid beat we had the other day, the one that I won? Yeah, yeah, apparently you did. We will beat on the dumbest thing too. This was one of the dumbest. Though it was it would I would say it was dumb except for the fact that I won. It wasn't really that.

1:22:05 Well, well, we can tell the listeners. It probably a week ago, and we looked at the extended forecast and we've gotten a fair bit of snow. We probably have had eight inches on the ground. Our lawn was covered in snow a fair amount. Of Stowe, and it had been really chilly and it wasn't melting right and that it had been iced on, so the snow was like it was hearty snow like sod was not going anywhere. So I made the comment, Yeah, I think the snow is going to stick around for a Christmas. We're not going to get any additional snow, but we're going to have a white Christmas. And you said, I said, no, the snow will be gone by end of day. Thursday, and I said, oh, I don't think so, it's not going to happen.

1:22:46 So for like three days we were talking about this. Well the deal was though, because there is still snow out there. It's funny because a lot of people you don't have snow, so you don't know how where it goes. When you have to shovel your dryways and you ow your roads, you get these huge like snow drifts, snow drifts whatever mountains of snow really, especially in like a parking lot, it's it's a huge mountain and it takes a long time for a to melt so on the curbs and you're the edges of your driveway. There's still, you know, some pretty significant snow drifts. But I believe we had said the snow. The bout was the snow will be ninety percent gone right. From the law. You'll be able to see like ninety percent of the long And what did we bet? Well, since you know what's yours is mine and what's mine is yours, betting money or material things, isn't that exciting?

1:23:34 So the that was the winner? Got to be smug for a day. Yeah, And I'll be honest, you're smug every day, but new words especially, you really haven't been extra smugs. Yeah, it fl like I kind of missed. Yeah, you, I'll give you a couple hours of smugness for sure. Great. Yeah, because that's you know, a sign of great intelligence to be able to predict the weather. And you know you think of as the meat you're all just in the family. But yeah, I'm really whifted this one. Yeah, you really wift it. Well, all this to say that we're going to have a green Christmas and I'm a little bombed. I think it's going to be fifty degrees on Christmas Day. It nice to take a walk and get out and get some fresh air. Between all the cookies and other stuff we're going to eat. Yeah, it is a little bit of a bomber.

1:24:19 Yeah, it is nice to have a white Christmas. Well, we wish all of you a very merry Christmas. If you don't celebrate Christmas, we hope that you have a RESTful week. Yeah, we hope you all enjoy your time with your loved ones and your family and friends. It's a great time to reflect and recharge, and we hope you have a great holiday. And we'll be back next Monday with another rewind episode. This time it's Rich's turn. But I don't want you to change it too much because I'm going to change for you. They really didn't change too much of mine. I changed a few things on the fly that I was like, what were they trying to say? Here? Yeah, I'll try to make a light a light at it. Yeah, this is it. By twenty twenty six, we'll be back with new episodes. And I'm actually thinking that I am going to branch out a little bit from Love Mary kill cases. I think I'm just getting a little, you know, tired of husband. Do you have some other cases that are true crime cases that you would like to hear us cover, let us know, and maybe we'll do well. Pepper in a few just true crime cases this year. What do you think of that?

1:25:20 Yeah, it sounds like a great idea. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time. Don't kill your wife and don't kill your husband. He that so. Hodge. Something I love this time.

1:26:04 To go bound, the falling days of here. Days since time ses. Come around the falling days ahead, don't come around the falling days ahead. Boa