Dec. 22, 2025

Rewind: Sarah and Ryan Widmer

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Sarah Widmer was found dead in the bathtub of her Ohio home just 114 days after marrying her husband, Ryan. What initially appeared to be a tragic accident quickly turned into a complicated legal battle involving disputed forensic evidence, questionable investigative decisions, and three separate trials. This case raises enduring questions about science in the courtroom, jury conduct, and whether the justice system ultimately got it right.

Today's snacks: Little Debbie Christmas Tree Cakes, North Pole Nutty Buddies, Christmas Tree Donuts

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WEBVTT

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We're getting out those decorations.

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Putting up the tree, and the kids are.

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Started downting down the back.

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The snot is faulting, people taking playing family Senbery is

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here and it's time for the holid days. Yeah, sleep boats,

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ringing cambos, playing some things in there.

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Hear that sound of Holland days ahead.

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Leaning on trees and rounding green A longest time to

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go round the Holland days ahead.

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Hey, rich, it's Christmas week.

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I know. If that song doesn't get you in the

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holiday spirit, I don't know what will.

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Are you ready for the big show, the big show,

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big dance.

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It's not as big of a dance for me as

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it is for Santa and his elves. But yes, no,

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I'm not ready.

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Actually you have five well four days really, yeah, plenty

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of time, plenty of time. I got a late start,

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but I am ready all right, Well not really, but

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you know, I think the shopping is done. Yeah, I'm

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in that stage of shopping where I ordered a lot

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of things online and.

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You don't know what you are.

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I've lost track. I had some panic buys last night

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at midnight. But I think everyone's taking care of for

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the most.

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Part, especially Christmas for you, and the packages come and

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you don't know what's going to be inside the packages

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because you've forgotten what you've ordered.

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Well exactly, it's like Christmas Morning for dads. You know.

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Dad's never really not that's not true. Some dads do

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all the shopping. Yeah, So our mail carrier has been

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a little problematic. And I don't know if it's problematic

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or not, but she has been leaving our packages either

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by the mailbox or she will literally sometimes throw them

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into a driveway. Yeah, like if it's a package of

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clothing in a plastic bag, she'll just throw it into

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the driveway. I'm curious if that's okay with other people.

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I understand that she's really busy, but it annoys me.

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Yeah a lot, as publicly the US Postal Service.

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Because I don't know what her name is. And I

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used to always be really diligent about giving something to

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the postal worker for Christmas because you had.

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Your dad from a long line of postal work.

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Yeah, and I think it's important to recognize them. But

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she's always kind of rough in the runway.

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Yeah, she really doesn't like to get out of the

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mail truck if she doesn't have to yeah.

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Which I can't blame her.

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I can't.

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You know, it's a hard job and I appreciate her efforts.

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Before I give you your snack, we have a couple

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of faint youes that we need to give. First of all, Allison,

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our very sweet listener who has sent us several gifts

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for our cats, Cosmo and Clover, sent me the sweetest

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Christmas gift. I had them on earlier, but I had

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to take them off when I put my headphones on.

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But they're cute, little black cat decorated for Christmas with

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so sweet That was just above and beyond. Thank you

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so much, Alison. A few weeks ago, around the time

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of your birthday, our listener Kimma sent you a gift.

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It was kind of a gag gift. I thought it

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was pretty funny. Do you remember what she said?

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Yeah, she sent Buckeyes, which are great. It was kind

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of a gag gift because they are branded in the

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Hiday State. Yes, yes, but Buckeyes are delicious. Chocolate peanut

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butter my two favorite flavors together. So yeah, thanks Kimma.

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Well, I do have a snack for you, actually have

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three snacks for you. Do you know that Little Debbie

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is finally getting the justice or so that I'll just

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see what I did there that she deserves.

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No, I did not know that.

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Well, America is obsessed with Little Debbies Christmas trees.

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Okay, and oh I love those Christmas trees are really good.

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Well there's Christmas tree dip, which is insane. You take

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that Christmas it's kind of like what you would do

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for cake bites and you put cream cheese in them.

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I didn't make that because you really hate cream cheese,

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even though I kind of wanted to try it. But

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I brought you the same.

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Oh, it's like a mashup of a nutty bar and

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a Christmas tree.

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Yeah, and then I brought you the donut, and I

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bought you, brought you the Christmas tree, and you have

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to rank them. Okay, so you have to eat three

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little stacks.

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All right, If I have to do it, i'll do it.

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I was going to make the Little Debbie Christmas trees homemade,

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but life's lifing. We'll be right back, do you hear that? So,

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so rank those snacks.

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They were all great, first of all, but I'm gonna

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go with number three is the donut. Nothing wrong with it?

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It was very good, a little dry.

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Maybe a little bit. That's why I'm rating the Christmas

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tree number two because it happened the cream filling in

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the middle. It was a lot like the donut, but

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a little cream. And the nutty bar thing was amazing.

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I do I'm crazy.

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Well, I'm a huge.

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Nutty bar fan anyway, and I'm a big little Debbie

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Christmas tree fan, so putting those two things together is great.

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Surprised you like the white chocolate coating on the nutty bar.

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Yeah, it was really good.

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Wow, I don't know who you are anymore. I'm going

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to go. They were all actually really good. I was

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kind of pleasantly surprised. Bad news. Those the Christmas cakes

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are hard to find it. I was really surprised that

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I found them. I was just looking a mire and

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they're not that they're sold out.

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Just like cherry chip cake.

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Hu.

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Well, we do have cherry chip cake now. But I

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would rank a donut, nutty bar and Christmas tree. Christmas

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trees are really young, Yeah, really good. We decided to

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revisit some of the very first cases that we did

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in our first months of podcasts many many years ago,

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not that many years ago. But this is a case

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that I have not stopped thinking about, and I'm going

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to reserve my opinion to the end. So hopefully you

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guys don't remember it too vividly. Do you remember this case?

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Not very well. I remember a couple of things about it,

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but I am interested to hear it again because I

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do remember that it was interesting, but I don't remember

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specifically what it was.

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Okay, well, here is a story of Sarah and Ryan Widmer.

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I did not rewrite this case. I haven't even reread it.

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I stand by the research, but the writing is probably

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different than the way we write.

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I think we've evolved a little bit, but we'll see.

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Monday, August eleventh, two thousand and eight, began like any

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ordinary evening for newlyweds Ryan and Sarah Widmer, but it

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would end in a tragedy that would devastate two families.

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Ryan twenty seven, Era twenty four had been married just

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one hundred fourteen days and were living in the Hope

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Well Valley Subdivision on Crested Owl Court in Mason, Ohio.

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By all outward appearances, they were a young, loving couple

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with their lives ahead of them. That evening, Sarah wasn't

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feeling well, so she rested on the couch while Ryan

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prepared dinner left over hamburgers, corn and potatoes. They spent

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a few quiet hours watching television, taking turns choosing the

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show until Ryan switched to the Bengals pre season opener

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around ten pm. Not long after, Sarah told Ryan that

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she was going to take a bath before going to bed.

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As she headed upstairs, she told Ryan, I love you.

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Don't forget to lock up. Ryan Whidmer was born and

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raised in Ohio. He has two brothers. One is his

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fraternal twin. Ryan's parents divorced in nineteen ninety. Ryan and

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his brothers didn't have a relationship with their father after

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the contentious divorce, but they were very close to their mother, Jill.

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Ryan's father was not invited to his wedding. Ryan was

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a nice, laid back guy who didn't like confrontation. He

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was quiet, but warm to people quickly. He played baseball

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and basketball in high school and went to Miami of

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Ohio on a partial baseball scholarship. He graduated in two

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thousand and four with a degree in sports studies. After college,

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Ryan worked at the Warren County Convention and Visitor Bureau

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in the Sports Marketing department. Ryan's love for sports made

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his job a good fit for him. Ryan was well

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liked at work and had been promoted several times within

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the Convention and Visitors Bureau. Ryan was key in promoting

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Warren County to become a tourist attraction. He worked hard

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on the Ohio's largest playground campaign and brought some interesting

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sporting events to the area like a jump rope competition,

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a junior golf qualifier, and a gymnastics competition. The office

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was like family, and Ryan was known for his good,

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kind and helpful spirit. In two thousand and five, his

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co workers noticed that Ryan was leaving every day at lunchtime,

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missing their group lunches. He was using his lunch break

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to take care of his ailing grandmother, who was dying

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from cancer. Ryan's biggest passion in life is sports, especially

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the Cincinnati Bengals. He was a proud season ticket holder.

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Sarah was also born and raised in Ohio. She has

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one brother, Michael, and in high school she played volleyball, softball, soccer,

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and was also a cheerleader. Sarah was beautiful and outgoing,

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with a vibrant smile and an infectious laugh. Although she

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was spunky and not afraid to speak her mind or

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stand up for herself when necessary, she was exceptionally organized

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and had an eye for detail. She had always loved

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going to the dentist growing up, so she decided to

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go to dental Hygiene's school and graduated in two thousand six.

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Sara's dad, Michael Stewart, died in March two thousand seven

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of malignant melanoma. He held a pH d In Martial

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Arts Sciences and Philosophy. He had trained some martial arts

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champions and even had copywritten his own self defense program.

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Sarah was a daddy's girl, so he must have taught

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Sarah a few things about self defense.

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PhD in Martial Arts Sciences and Philosophy. That is a

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degree I have never heard of before.

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Sarah was young and healthy, but chronically tired and frequently

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fell asleep in odd places, movies, parties, and bars. Her

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brother said that she'd had a history of falling asleep

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in the bathtub. Dana, Sarah's good friend, was going to

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nursing school, and she became increasingly concerned about Sarah's health.

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Sarah suffered from migraines, stomach aches and persistent exhaustion. Even

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at noisy family gatherings or Bengals games, Sarah would fall asleep.

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Dana encouraged Sarah to see a doctor two weeks before

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her death. Sarah did go for a physical, but either

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she didn't mention her exhaustion to the doctor or they

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failed to record it.

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Is it possible that Sarah had narcolepsy?

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She had just gone to the doctor two weeks before

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her death, so I don't believe she'd received any diagnosis

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at that time. But the symptoms do sound like narcolepsy,

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don't they. Yeah, But in the doctor's file there was

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no mention of Sarah's excessive sleepiness. Sarah was known to

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get to work a little early so she could take

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a nap before she started her shift. She often napped

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during her lunch hour or even between patients. She often

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took etcetern or ibewprofen for headaches, but she was able

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to adapt. Her health issues were typically only mild annoyances

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in an otherwise happy and act of life. When Sarah's

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coworkers were interviewed by police, they said that she hadn't

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been feeling well that day and she had a headache

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a sore throat and a sore neck. Chris and Dana

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kissed introduced Sarah and Ryan in August two thousand and six.

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Chris and Ryan were college teammates and roommates. Dana and

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Sarah knew each other through a common friend, Ryan third

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wheeled a lot with the kisss Dana loved Ryan, but

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she thought he didn't have any game with the ladies.

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She knew he wanted to settle down and have kids

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before he was thirty. Dana thought quiet, easygoing Ryan and sweet,

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spunky Sarah might just hit it off. The Kiss set

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up a double date at an Irish pub called Brazenhead.

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Ryan had never been on a blind date before, so

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he was nervous. But the double date was the right

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setting to set both Ryan and Sarah at ease, and

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they had a great night. They soon became inseparable friends.

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New things were getting serious when Sarah bought a Cincinnati

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Bengals jersey and asked her friend Chris to teach her

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about football. Dana remembers Sarah saying he's the one. Shortly

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after they started dating.

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I know it was serious with us when you bought

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your University of Michigan sweatshirt.

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You bought me one, actually, I remember. Things moved quickly

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for Ryan and Sarah. They bought a brand new house

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in February two thousand and seven. It was a perfect

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house for a young couple starting out, four bedrooms, three baths,

239
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and two two hundred square feet in a family friendly neighborhood.

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They got engaged in the spring of two thousand and

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seven after dating for only nine months. Ryan bought Sarah

242
00:12:56.320 --> 00:12:59.440
a beautiful, one care at Princess cut ring that he

243
00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:03.519
paid for with money inherited from his grandmother. Very specific,

244
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there wasn't I yes. His mother, Jill, went shopping for

245
00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:10.120
the ring with him. She adored Sarah quote they had

246
00:13:10.120 --> 00:13:12.720
a love like no other. One of them would say

247
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I love you more and the other would say I

248
00:13:14.679 --> 00:13:17.600
love you most. Ryan was so excited once he had

249
00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:20.320
the ring he couldn't wait to propose. He tied the

250
00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:23.759
ring around his dog's neck with a string. CIJ, a

251
00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:27.000
pitbull terrier, had been Ryan's dog long before Ryan and

252
00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:30.159
Sarah had met. CIJ and Sarah had a bumpy start

253
00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:33.320
because CJ was so possessive of Ryan, but they soon

254
00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:37.159
became good buddies. Ryan sent CIJ into the primary bedroom,

255
00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:40.320
where Sarah had just gotten out of the shower where

256
00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:43.600
every girl wants to propose a Ryan went down on

257
00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:45.919
one knee in the doorway of the bathroom and all

258
00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:49.159
he could get out was will you before Sarah immediately

259
00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:51.919
said yes. They called their parents and they were all

260
00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:55.360
very excited for Sarah and Ryan. Sadly, Ryan was never

261
00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:58.120
able to ask Sarah's dad for his approval, but he

262
00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:00.799
did ask Sarah's mom, bruth Anne, and she approved of

263
00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:04.960
the proposal. Ironically, the location of Ryan's proposal would be

264
00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:08.320
the same place the EMTs would try to resuscitate Sarah's

265
00:14:08.360 --> 00:14:12.279
lifeless body. Just a year later, Ryan and Sarah had

266
00:14:12.279 --> 00:14:14.919
a lovely wedding on April nineteenth, two thousand and eight.

267
00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:20.240
Sarah meticulously planned every detail. Their rings were inscribed. Sarah

268
00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:22.960
said I love you more and Ryan said I love

269
00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:26.159
you most. Sarah bribed Ryan with a big screen TV

270
00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:29.799
to take dancing lessons to make their first dance special.

271
00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:33.240
They look radiant in their wedding photos. Ryan's job was

272
00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:35.919
to plan the honeymoon to Costa Rica. They were a

273
00:14:35.960 --> 00:14:39.720
beautiful couple with a bright future until August eleventh.

274
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On August eleventh, two thousand and eight, Ryan went upstairs

275
00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:46.000
to the primary bathroom to get ready for bed. He

276
00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:48.519
stripped down to his boxers and turned down the TV

277
00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:51.120
to watch the end of the Bengals game. Then he

278
00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:54.440
went into the bathroom and found Sarah floating in the bathtub,

279
00:14:54.759 --> 00:14:57.879
staring at the ceiling. There was foaming blood coming out

280
00:14:57.879 --> 00:14:58.240
of her.

281
00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:00.759
Nose, which we've learned is typically and drownings.

282
00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:03.960
Right, Yeah, she was not moving and appeared to be dead.

283
00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:06.600
He pulled the plug and sat her up against the

284
00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:09.320
back of the tub. He patted her face and chest

285
00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:12.399
and set her name and got no response. He tried

286
00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:14.399
to call nine one one on his cell phone but

287
00:15:14.519 --> 00:15:16.799
couldn't get a signal, so he went to the bedroom

288
00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:19.759
and grabbed Sarah's phone. The call went through at ten

289
00:15:19.879 --> 00:15:20.840
forty nine pm.

290
00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:23.000
We're going to play the nine one one call and

291
00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:25.440
you should know that. Later it becomes very important.

292
00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:28.799
What's going on? She calls like an advance time. I

293
00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:29.639
think I was downstairs.

294
00:15:29.639 --> 00:15:30.320
I just came up here.

295
00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:31.039
She was lazy.

296
00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:41.120
The water, Yeah, in the bath water training right now.

297
00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:43.639
I tried to do it everything I could.

298
00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:45.720
Right, bringing around of the water.

299
00:15:45.799 --> 00:15:48.080
Now, yeah, she's the water to completely drink, but she

300
00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:49.399
just laying her unconscious.

301
00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:49.759
Nothing.

302
00:15:49.759 --> 00:15:53.320
Who's doing the bath them? Yeah? Yeah, okay, so we'll

303
00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:58.600
drain the water out of them. Yeah, I want you

304
00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:01.360
about them. Are you scumming in here for a leaf?

305
00:16:01.720 --> 00:16:04.000
I had fifteen minutes half hours are here? I'm out

306
00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:04.720
there wanting.

307
00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:07.879
To TV people are Yeah, as.

308
00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:10.840
Much as I could. What little did I know? Nobody

309
00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:12.519
coming to you the way?

310
00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:14.399
Ryan, There's no way you can get around of the

311
00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:15.039
bath problem.

312
00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:17.279
I can try, but I haven't put the phone down

313
00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:20.759
where we get around of the bathtub and get her

314
00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:34.200
off a flat purple Okay, okay, I'm drowning the phone.

315
00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:41.600
Ryan later said that he misspoke on the nine one

316
00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:44.080
one call. He meant to say this. Sarah was face

317
00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:47.519
up in the bathtub, not face down. Does anything jump

318
00:16:47.559 --> 00:16:49.559
out at you during that nine to one one call?

319
00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:53.279
He sounds very sincere and authentic to me. I know,

320
00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:56.960
every any time you're in that situation, it's so hard

321
00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:59.399
to predict how you're going to react and what you're

322
00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:03.000
going to say. But to me, he sounds very authentic

323
00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:05.319
and panicked, as one would.

324
00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:06.400
Yeah, I agree.

325
00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:10.200
This call would be painstakingly analyzed and dissected for years

326
00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:13.319
to come. It became the reason many people would question

327
00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:17.039
his innocence and judge him a criminal. Ryan never testified

328
00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:19.440
before a jury, so this would be the only time

329
00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:23.000
jurors would hear his voice. He sat beside Sarah as

330
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:25.839
he talked to the dispatcher. My wife fell asleep in

331
00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:28.359
the bathtub, and I think she's dead, he said. The

332
00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:30.880
dispatcher told Ryan to get Sarah out of the tub,

333
00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:35.599
start CPR, and wait for emergency services to arrive. Ryan

334
00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:38.000
got Sarah out of the tub and placed her body

335
00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:40.680
in between the bedroom and bathroom, with her head and

336
00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:44.279
body on the bedroom carpet, her legs still in the bathroom.

337
00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:47.359
He attempted to perform CPR, but he didn't really know

338
00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:49.799
what he was doing. He was holding the phone but

339
00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:52.720
also trying to breathe life into Sarah. You could hear

340
00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:55.119
him blowing on the phone, and some people would think

341
00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:58.359
he wasn't really blowing into Sarah's mouth, but faking it.

342
00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:02.359
Five minutes later, the first responders arrived. It's unclear how

343
00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:05.039
much time had passed since Ryan had drained the tub,

344
00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:07.119
but it could have been as long as seven or

345
00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:10.599
eight minutes. Droplets of water could be seen around the drain.

346
00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:14.400
A police officer would describe Sarah's skin as dry but

347
00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:17.839
her hair as damp. Investigators at the scene failed to

348
00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:20.720
record weather conditions that night, as well as the temperature

349
00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:23.880
and humidity in the house. There was also confusion as

350
00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:27.000
to whether Sarah's body was moved by Ryan to stage

351
00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:29.680
the scene because there were two spots of blood on

352
00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:32.880
the bedroom carpet. The bloody spots were from the foaming

353
00:18:32.920 --> 00:18:36.920
blood that was coming out of Sarah's mouth. Ryan insists

354
00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:39.279
one of the officers told him to move Sarah to

355
00:18:39.319 --> 00:18:43.119
have more room to perform CPR, but the officer denies this.

356
00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:47.119
It's a very small area. We'll post pictures, and I

357
00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:49.640
think it's possible that her body was moved and no

358
00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:52.839
one just remembers it. Because if there's multiple people performing

359
00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:57.000
on her, you know, trying to revive her, I think

360
00:18:57.000 --> 00:18:58.400
they would have had to move to.

361
00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:01.039
Tight fit to'll be able to do that. Yeah, there

362
00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:04.200
were no visible injuries to Sarah or Ryan's body, and

363
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:07.279
he was wearing only boxer shorts. There were no puddles

364
00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:09.839
of water or wet towels that had been used to

365
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:12.119
clean up the scene. There were no towels in the

366
00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:15.119
dryer that had been dried before the police came. The

367
00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:18.240
paramedics worked on Sarah for about twenty minutes and then

368
00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:21.000
transported her to the ambulance, where they worked on her

369
00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:23.599
for another fifteen minutes, and then they took her to

370
00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:24.319
the hospital.

371
00:19:24.440 --> 00:19:27.000
So I think the bit about the towels is important

372
00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:30.240
because investigators would point to it as well. If you

373
00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:33.400
took your wife out of the bathtub, there should be

374
00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:36.640
more water on the floor and you know, soaking in

375
00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:37.240
the carpet.

376
00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:40.200
And although he drained the bathtub, and we don't really

377
00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:42.160
know how long it was between the time he drained

378
00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:43.759
the tub and the time he pulled her out of

379
00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:46.720
the tub, but she could have been somewhat dry by

380
00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:47.720
the time he pulled her out.

381
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:49.720
I think it's important to point out here that it

382
00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:53.240
was August eleventh, and we don't know the conditions of

383
00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:55.319
the house. We don't know if the air conditioning was on,

384
00:19:55.640 --> 00:19:57.279
or you know, what the humidity was.

385
00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:00.519
Yeah, it could potentially be really humid in August or

386
00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:03.680
really draw it either one. Ryan went into the ambulance

387
00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:06.240
and sat in front making calls to his mom and

388
00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:09.680
Sarah's mom while the paramedics worked on saving Sarah's life

389
00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:12.599
in the back. Ryan wept while talking to the mom's

390
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:16.400
and told them to meet him at Bethesda Aro Springs Hospital.

391
00:20:16.839 --> 00:20:20.440
At eleven forty one pm, Sarah was pronounced dead fifty

392
00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:23.839
two minutes after Ryan had called nine one one. During

393
00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:26.359
the time that the paramedics worked on Sarah, there were

394
00:20:26.359 --> 00:20:29.440
never any signs of life. Ryan fell to his knees

395
00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:31.960
and buried his face in a chair while his body

396
00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:35.960
convulsed with sobs. Jill Ryan's mom asked a nurse if

397
00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:38.799
she and Ryan could see Sarah, and the nurse said no.

398
00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:42.400
At twelve o eight am, Sarah's mom, Ruth Ann, was

399
00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:45.279
allowed to see Sarah. While still in the waiting area,

400
00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:49.000
police briefly talked to Ryan. He signed a consent to search.

401
00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:52.319
This gave the police the right to search the newlyweds home.

402
00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:56.000
Ryan didn't think he had anything to hide. In retrospect,

403
00:20:56.119 --> 00:20:59.920
Ryan realized that the police already considered Sarah's death suspicious

404
00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:01.880
and he was their prime suspect.

405
00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:04.000
So I guess the fact that the nurse wouldn't let

406
00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:07.599
him see his wife was telling Even then, Yeah.

407
00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:10.160
I guess so. Thinking of it from Ryan's perspective, if

408
00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:13.319
if she died accidentally and he had nothing to do

409
00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:16.599
with it. Of course he wouldn't be thinking that, right,

410
00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:18.759
He wouldn't think that, oh, the police are probably looking

411
00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:22.680
at me, because to him this was a tragic, natural death.

412
00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:26.240
After Sarah was pronounced dead, Ryan and his mom went

413
00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:28.960
back to the house on Crested Owl Court so Ryan

414
00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:32.119
could get some clothes and things. Ryan's mom went into

415
00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:35.240
the house because Ryan was too upset. She noticed that

416
00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:37.759
the police had cut some squares of carpeting from the

417
00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:41.000
primary bedroom near the bathroom, but other than that, the

418
00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:44.319
house looked as if nothing had happened. Jill also noticed

419
00:21:44.359 --> 00:21:47.640
that Sarah's wedding and engagement rings were on the bathroom vanity.

420
00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:50.480
She gave the rings to Ryan because she thought they

421
00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:53.400
might give him comfort. They went back to Jill's house,

422
00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:56.079
where her sister and brother in law were waiting for them.

423
00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:00.519
They all stayed up until five am, crying and remembering Sarah, Barah,

424
00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:04.920
we'll be back after a break, save.

425
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:08.519
Bell bringing terrible plans.

426
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:12.200
Hear that sound.

427
00:22:16.039 --> 00:22:18.720
Jill Ryan's mom called Ryan's boss on the morning of

428
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:22.279
August twelfth to tell him the horrible news. Ryan's entire

429
00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:25.799
office was like family and They were all shocked and saddened. Later,

430
00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:28.480
they would all be questioned by the police about Ryan.

431
00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:32.039
Ryan agreed to talk with a detective without an attorney

432
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:35.440
present the day after Sarah's death, but several family members

433
00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:38.680
and friends encouraged him not to do the meeting without

434
00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:44.119
an attorney present. A family friend recommended Charlie Ritgers. Finding

435
00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:47.559
a local attorney with murder trial experience was difficult in

436
00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:50.960
this small town, but Ritgers had defended about six people

437
00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:54.920
in homicide cases. Ritgers was well respected and liked, with

438
00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:57.799
thirty years of experience. He thought he would act as

439
00:22:57.799 --> 00:23:00.799
a buffer between Ryan and the police during route questioning.

440
00:23:01.279 --> 00:23:03.920
Rickers thought, of course they wanted to talk to the husband.

441
00:23:04.359 --> 00:23:07.319
He didn't anticipate any charges. He had no reason to

442
00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:11.200
question his client's story. The Widmer case, though, would become

443
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:14.319
the hardest and most haunting case he'd ever worked on.

444
00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:18.240
The autopsy was performed on August twelfth, and the coroner

445
00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:22.519
ruled Sarah's death a drowning by homicide very quickly. The

446
00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:25.119
coroner said there were signs of a violent struggle, but

447
00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:27.359
I wonder if he could have been influenced by the

448
00:23:27.400 --> 00:23:30.960
police who wanted to make a quick arrest. While Ryan

449
00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:33.440
was at the funeral home making the final arrangements for

450
00:23:33.559 --> 00:23:36.359
Sarah's service, Ritckers called him and said there was a

451
00:23:36.440 --> 00:23:39.480
warrant for his arrest and he needed to turn himself in.

452
00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:42.039
The police had been at his home while he was

453
00:23:42.119 --> 00:23:44.480
at the funeral and they bagged forty three items for

454
00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:48.000
evidence after breaking down the front door. The police must

455
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:50.720
have had some damning evidence, but they didn't divulge anything

456
00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:53.880
to Rigers. But if you remember, he signed a consent

457
00:23:54.200 --> 00:23:55.880
to search, so I'm not sure why they had to

458
00:23:55.920 --> 00:23:59.599
break down the front door. Rachel Hutzel, Warren County prosecutor

459
00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:02.839
and the tenant Jeff Brayley, lead investigator in the case,

460
00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:06.160
gave a press conference on August thirteenth at six pm.

461
00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:09.359
Hutzel said there was trauma to Sarah's body that was

462
00:24:09.559 --> 00:24:12.720
only visible to the coroner. She said that a suspect

463
00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:15.440
named Ryan Widmer had been arrested for the drowning of

464
00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:18.680
his wife. They didn't give any further information to the media.

465
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:23.119
They were unusually tight lipped about this case. So Ryan

466
00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:27.079
was taken into custody and he was never officially questioned.

467
00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:30.720
Sarah's family wasn't questioned there was no light detector test.

468
00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:34.480
Ryan planned for a second autopsy to be performed before

469
00:24:34.599 --> 00:24:37.480
Sarah's burial. They were hopeful that it would reveal more

470
00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:40.839
information than the first autopsy about the cause of Sarah's death.

471
00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:44.880
Ryan's attorney was mystified by the charges, especially because of

472
00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:48.720
the vague information of trauma the coroner had reported. What

473
00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:52.200
were they hiding and why more evidence wouldn't be released

474
00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:55.880
until trial With a minimum of information disclosed to the public.

475
00:24:56.079 --> 00:24:59.000
There was so much speculation about the case, and everyone

476
00:24:59.079 --> 00:25:03.039
in the Cincinnati area took a side. Ryan's dad, Gary

477
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:05.559
hadn't seen or talk to Ryan for eight years. He

478
00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:07.920
didn't even know that Ryan was married. He found out

479
00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:10.319
Ryan was arrested from the news, he went to see

480
00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:13.039
him and promised to help. He and Jill worked together

481
00:25:13.240 --> 00:25:17.000
hard to gather the money for Ryan's bail. On August fourteenth,

482
00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:21.519
Ryan's first court appearance, Mike Stewart, Sarah's brother, stood at

483
00:25:21.559 --> 00:25:24.079
the hearing and said that his family didn't think it

484
00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:27.480
was possible that Ryan was capable of killing Sarah. He

485
00:25:27.559 --> 00:25:29.839
said that Ryan was a hero for trying to save

486
00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:32.519
his sister and encouraged the judge to set a low

487
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:35.720
bail so Ryan could be released to attend her funeral.

488
00:25:36.039 --> 00:25:38.640
The Ryan's bail was set at one million dollars because

489
00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:41.480
the judge considered him a flight risk. Oh, but the

490
00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:44.559
family was waiting to have Sarah's funeral until he could

491
00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:47.519
be there to attend. In the meantime, a grand jury

492
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:50.240
was meeting in secret to consider the charges against Ryan,

493
00:25:50.599 --> 00:25:53.880
and on August fifteenth, Ryan was indicted with a charge

494
00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:57.400
of aggravated murder, which carries a sentence of twenty to

495
00:25:57.559 --> 00:26:00.920
life in prison. You might remember that an aggravated murder

496
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:04.480
charge consists of purposely causing the death of another with

497
00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:07.720
prior planning, or intentionally causing the death of a child

498
00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:11.079
under the age of thirteen. So they really believe that

499
00:26:11.240 --> 00:26:14.599
Ryan is guilty, that he had planned this, And what

500
00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:15.359
do you think about that.

501
00:26:15.799 --> 00:26:18.000
I haven't heard any evidence yet to tell me that

502
00:26:18.279 --> 00:26:22.200
he is. So I'm I'm going to say I'm not

503
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:24.440
buying it yet, but maybe I'll change my mind.

504
00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:26.680
It seems like a rush to judgment, doesn't it.

505
00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:27.279
It does.

506
00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:30.799
Yeah, So Ryan was put under suicide watch and given

507
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:34.279
one of those bests to wear when he was at trial,

508
00:26:34.599 --> 00:26:37.759
and he wasn't allowed to wear underwear. What he wasn't

509
00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:41.079
allowed bedsheets, pens, pencils, paper, or books. He was only

510
00:26:41.119 --> 00:26:43.640
allowed out of his cell for an hour a day

511
00:26:43.799 --> 00:26:46.759
at midnight, so he must have been in danger from

512
00:26:46.839 --> 00:26:50.440
other prisoners. I guess. Ryan was arraigned on August twentieth.

513
00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:53.359
Two dozen people came to support him. A judge agreed

514
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:56.559
to reduce Ryan's bail to four hundred thousand dollars, and

515
00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:59.599
his dad paid the forty thousand dollars with money from

516
00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:02.279
his britiin hironment account. On the day of Sarah's funeral,

517
00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:06.000
Ryan was released two hours too late to attend the service.

518
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:09.960
Sarah's family let Ryan decide whether Sarah would be cremated

519
00:27:10.119 --> 00:27:13.400
or buried, and he chose cremation, and he said it

520
00:27:13.480 --> 00:27:16.680
was partly because it was just cheaper. Ryan had a

521
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:20.039
lot of unwavering support from friends, family, co workers, and

522
00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:24.000
even the community. They created a website, Free Ryan Widmer

523
00:27:24.119 --> 00:27:28.319
that took donations and hosted fundraisers. Well, let's talk about

524
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:31.759
the evidence a little bit. Sarah's body was face down

525
00:27:31.799 --> 00:27:34.599
in the bathtub, Ryan said during the nine one one call,

526
00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:38.119
her head was by the faucet side of the bathtub. Again,

527
00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:40.480
this is what Ryan said, but he would later say

528
00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:43.559
that he found her face up and never diverged again

529
00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:44.200
from this, So.

530
00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:45.920
He's saying that on the nine one one call, he

531
00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:48.480
just misspoke. Yeah, he meant to say face up, which

532
00:27:48.519 --> 00:27:49.960
I could understand that could happen.

533
00:27:50.079 --> 00:27:50.279
Yeah.

534
00:27:50.599 --> 00:27:53.359
There were two diluted looking bloodstains found on the carpet

535
00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:55.440
where Sarah had been lying, and the stains were from

536
00:27:55.480 --> 00:27:58.319
the bloody froth that had come from her mouth, which,

537
00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:00.799
like we said, is typical and drowning. Because there were

538
00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:04.440
two stains, investigators thought that Ryan must have moved Sarah's

539
00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:07.680
body to stage the scene. Ryan claimed that the paramedics

540
00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:10.880
moved Sarah. Sarah had two cuts on her lip, three

541
00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:14.720
bruises on her scalp, a hemorrhage on her chest. I

542
00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:17.640
think investigators thought this hemorrhage could have been from her

543
00:28:17.799 --> 00:28:20.839
leaning over the bathtub or him leaning her.

544
00:28:20.839 --> 00:28:22.680
Over the basketb I would think it would be from

545
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:24.440
CPR exactly.

546
00:28:24.839 --> 00:28:27.720
There were no defensive wounds on Sarah or Ryan, and

547
00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:31.480
Ryan's DNA was not found under Sarah's fingernails, but there

548
00:28:31.640 --> 00:28:35.960
was mystery DNA from an unknown female underneath her fingernails.

549
00:28:36.279 --> 00:28:40.599
If you remember, Sarah's father was a martial arts expert,

550
00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:43.400
and I believe that he must have taught Sarah some

551
00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:46.400
self defense moves, and I believe that she would have

552
00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:49.640
fought off an attacker. There were two sets of fingerprints

553
00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:53.079
at the back of the tub with a scraping motion. Also,

554
00:28:53.160 --> 00:28:55.839
an impression of a man's arm was on the edge

555
00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:59.079
of the bathtub. There was a packed pink suitcase found

556
00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:02.480
that investigators pointed to is proof that Sarah had wanted

557
00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:05.480
to leave Ryan, but she had just returned the day

558
00:29:05.559 --> 00:29:08.119
before from a trip that she had taken with her mom.

559
00:29:08.839 --> 00:29:13.519
Investigators never looked into Sarah's medical issues. Ryan had four

560
00:29:13.640 --> 00:29:16.680
beers on Monday night, which I think people pointed to

561
00:29:16.920 --> 00:29:20.559
is over indulgence. How many beers do you think is

562
00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:23.039
excessive on a Monday night while watching football.

563
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:26.359
Everyone's different, so it's really hard to say. If someone

564
00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:30.720
drinks regularly a couple of beers after dinner and four

565
00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:33.720
is not that excessive. But if you'd never drink, having

566
00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:36.240
four on a Monday night would probably seem like quite

567
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:36.480
a bit.

568
00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:40.359
There were envelopes found in the nightstand on either side

569
00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:44.480
of the bed that said in case of marriage emergency, well,

570
00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:48.279
let's talk about motive. Ryan had no history of domestic

571
00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:51.799
violence or abuse. You couldn't find anyone who would say

572
00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:55.160
a bad thing about Ryan. He had absolutely no history

573
00:29:55.359 --> 00:29:59.160
of violence. Sarah had never complained to a friend or

574
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:02.799
relative about Ryan, and they seemed very happy. They had

575
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:06.119
no financial troubles. Sarah made about sixty thousand dollars a

576
00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:10.200
year and Ryan made about fifty thousand dollars a year. Allegedly,

577
00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:13.960
he tracked her spending sometimes, though he said that she

578
00:30:14.119 --> 00:30:17.319
asked him to hold her accountable. Though Sarah's mom said

579
00:30:17.319 --> 00:30:19.359
that Sarah made more money than Ryan and it made

580
00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:22.359
her apprehensive, but it didn't seem to bother either one

581
00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:24.960
of them. They seemed to have a pretty nice lifestyle.

582
00:30:25.119 --> 00:30:27.680
They had a trip planned to Cancun, and they had

583
00:30:27.799 --> 00:30:30.599
just picked up a new puppy. Sarah had enrolled for

584
00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:32.839
a life insurance at work two weeks before her death,

585
00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:34.599
but the policy wasn't yet active.

586
00:30:34.759 --> 00:30:37.039
If you were planning to kill your spouse, I would

587
00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:39.079
think you would want to be sure that that policy

588
00:30:39.279 --> 00:30:40.160
was active, right.

589
00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:44.079
Ryan's computers were searched and nothing unusual was found, although

590
00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:48.319
he had visited some porn sites and possibly a swinger's website,

591
00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:50.599
but his mom said it could have been a pop

592
00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:51.240
up ad.

593
00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:53.400
From one of the porn Of course, his mom is

594
00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:56.000
going to say that, yeah, I mean, but no, it's

595
00:30:56.359 --> 00:30:59.559
realistically it could have been right if pop up ad

596
00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:01.960
comes up up your computer looks at that as a

597
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:03.119
website that you visited.

598
00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:07.640
The trial was originally scheduled for November seventeenth, but the

599
00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:11.880
defense submitted findings from a second autopsy just two weeks beforehand,

600
00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:16.079
prompting the prosecution to request a delay. The judge postponed

601
00:31:16.119 --> 00:31:19.160
the trial until March two thousand and nine. Because Ryan

602
00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:21.759
had been released on bond, the state had two hundred

603
00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:24.119
and seventy days to bring the case to trial or

604
00:31:24.319 --> 00:31:25.240
risk dismissal.

605
00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:28.359
That's so quick. I mean, Sarah was found dead on

606
00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:30.519
August eleventh, in November.

607
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:32.039
I mean that is really quick.

608
00:31:32.119 --> 00:31:34.839
Cal's super quick to have to make a whole defense.

609
00:31:35.319 --> 00:31:38.079
While waiting, Ryan lived at his mother's home under strict

610
00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:42.079
bond conditions, including a nightly curfew and frequent drug testing.

611
00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:46.480
He grew increasingly anxious and paranoid, convinced he was being watched,

612
00:31:46.720 --> 00:31:50.119
and his weight dropped dramatically. He later said the prolonged

613
00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:53.200
delay left him unable to properly grieve his wife while

614
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:57.440
fighting for his freedom. On October eleventh, Sarah's family held

615
00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:00.759
a private burial. Ryan attended, but fell the family had

616
00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:04.079
distanced themselves from him. Sarah was buried at the foot

617
00:32:04.119 --> 00:32:07.559
of her father's grave, her marker reading only Sarah Anne

618
00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:10.960
with no last name. It was the final contact Ryan

619
00:32:11.079 --> 00:32:13.640
had with her family, so up until this point he

620
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:19.640
talked about earlier that her brother was really until this point, Monday,

621
00:32:19.759 --> 00:32:22.880
March twenty third, two thousand and nine, in Lebanon, Ohio,

622
00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:28.480
jury selection began. Ryan's demeanor was quiet and stoic. His lawyer, Ritgers,

623
00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:31.279
had coached him to show as little emotion as possible.

624
00:32:31.720 --> 00:32:33.920
Any emotion could be seen by the jury as him

625
00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:37.839
acting or trying to get their sympathy. Despite his best efforts,

626
00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:41.039
Ryan teered up several times. I would also think just

627
00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:44.119
sitting there, stoic and unemotional, would not look great for

628
00:32:44.200 --> 00:32:45.160
a jury either.

629
00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:48.759
Don't most defense attorneys tell their clients not to react, though,

630
00:32:49.160 --> 00:32:49.880
I think that's the key.

631
00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:53.359
I think that's probably true. Eighty potential jurors were called

632
00:32:53.400 --> 00:32:56.119
to the courtroom, it would be challenging to find jurors

633
00:32:56.240 --> 00:32:59.400
that hadn't already formed an opinion of Ryan, but six

634
00:32:59.480 --> 00:33:02.279
hours later the jury had been picked, six men and

635
00:33:02.440 --> 00:33:06.079
six women. The prosecutor would remind the jury that proof

636
00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:09.799
of motive is not required. The damning evidence that hadn't

637
00:33:09.799 --> 00:33:13.799
been previously released to the public was finally disclosed. Sarah

638
00:33:13.880 --> 00:33:16.519
had hemorrhage in the deep muscles of the neck at

639
00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:19.440
the midline, which could be indicative of strangling.

640
00:33:19.960 --> 00:33:22.039
I know you're going to ask about the hyoid bone,

641
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:22.680
and I don't know.

642
00:33:23.319 --> 00:33:25.640
The nine to one one operator was called to the stand.

643
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:28.599
He said that Ryan's demeanor was calm during the call.

644
00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:31.279
Yeah, at one point he told Ryan to calm down.

645
00:33:31.400 --> 00:33:33.720
Yeah, I would not have called his demeanor calmn. During

646
00:33:33.759 --> 00:33:36.480
that call. He was giving Ryan instructions on how to

647
00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:39.240
do CPR, and he said he could hear Ryan breathing

648
00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:42.079
into the phone and thought it was possible that Ryan

649
00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:43.640
was just blowing into the phone.

650
00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:46.119
But we don't know where the phone was placed.

651
00:33:45.880 --> 00:33:47.200
Right, if he could have put it on the floor

652
00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:48.039
right next to her.

653
00:33:48.200 --> 00:33:50.440
Or just even right next to on her chest, right.

654
00:33:50.759 --> 00:33:54.480
Yeah, Ryan recalls crying heavily during the call, despite the

655
00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:58.079
nine one one operator's testimony. Witness number two was a

656
00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:01.319
deputy who had been at the crime scene. He testified

657
00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:04.279
that Sarah's body had not been moved. The two spots

658
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:06.440
of blood on the carpet were the result of Ryan

659
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:10.119
moving Sarah's body to stage the scene. The prosecution alleged

660
00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:13.360
Ryan said that the paramedics had moved Sarah's body from

661
00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:15.760
the doorway so they could have more room to work

662
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:19.920
on her. The deputy also testified that Sarah was mostly dry,

663
00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:23.320
the bathroom was dry, the tub was dry, and Ryan

664
00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:26.159
was dry. If there had been a violent struggle in

665
00:34:26.199 --> 00:34:29.960
the bathroom, you would expect more water. Maybe Ryan had

666
00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:32.639
cleaned up the water, but there were no towels found

667
00:34:32.679 --> 00:34:35.559
at the scene or in the dryer. There was one

668
00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:38.000
lysol wipe found on the ledge of the tub that

669
00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:40.960
the police alleged had been used to clean up something.

670
00:34:41.800 --> 00:34:45.159
The prosecution clung to the downstairs TV being off and

671
00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:48.079
not tuned into the game, while the bedroom TV was

672
00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:51.599
on and had the game on, indicating that Ryan had lied.

673
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:54.440
It might seem like I'm defending Ryan too much, but

674
00:34:54.719 --> 00:34:57.960
some of this evidence I feel like isn't very good evidence.

675
00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:01.840
But this particular evidence Ryan had said he was downstairs

676
00:35:01.880 --> 00:35:04.360
watching the game. But they're saying, well, the TV downstairs

677
00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:04.760
was off.

678
00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:07.320
The TV downstairs was off. He turned the TV off,

679
00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:09.599
and he went upstairs to get ready for bed. But

680
00:35:09.679 --> 00:35:12.320
when they turned the TV on, it wasn't on the

681
00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:15.599
channel that the game was on. Okay, but the Olympics

682
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:18.559
were also going on. And as the wife of someone

683
00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:24.280
who is also obsessed with sports, would I could totally

684
00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:27.800
see you. I think maybe Michael Phelps was swimming that night.

685
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:30.679
You would totally switch to see what was going on

686
00:35:30.760 --> 00:35:32.960
at the Olympics. Yes, And they also said that it

687
00:35:33.039 --> 00:35:35.840
was suspicious that he turned the TV on in the

688
00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:39.440
bedroom before he went to the bathroom. I totally think

689
00:35:39.480 --> 00:35:41.519
you would do that too. You wouldn't want to miss

690
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:43.639
a second of the game, for sure, Like you will

691
00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:45.880
come upstairs. We don't have a TV in the bedroom anymore,

692
00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:48.559
but a lot of times if you're watching a game downstairs,

693
00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:51.280
you have your iPad and you literally walk up the

694
00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:54.119
stairs and get ready brush your teeth for bad with

695
00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:55.679
your iPad. Yeah, for sure.

696
00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:56.079
Yep.

697
00:35:56.519 --> 00:35:59.760
Sarah's fingers and toes had no pruning, although Ryan had

698
00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:01.800
said she had been in the tub for at least

699
00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:04.239
thirty minutes and pruning would have started.

700
00:36:04.760 --> 00:36:07.119
Okay here A lot of times it depends on the

701
00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:09.280
size of the bathtub and their bathtub I think is

702
00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:12.760
like kind of the standard sized bathtub, but in our bathroom,

703
00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:16.000
like we have a pretty nice bathtub. But even when

704
00:36:16.039 --> 00:36:18.079
I'm reading, like I'll read in the bathtub too, but

705
00:36:18.079 --> 00:36:20.719
I'll put my feet like up so you don't slip

706
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:23.559
all the way down. So maybe you're and if you're

707
00:36:24.199 --> 00:36:28.079
reading something, your hands and your feet might not be submerged,

708
00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:29.400
so they wouldn't be pruning.

709
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:32.320
Yeah, that makes sense. Her body was still warm, so

710
00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:35.840
Ryan had called nine one one quickly. One medic said

711
00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:39.000
that Sarah's hair was damp. Another said her hair was wet.

712
00:36:39.559 --> 00:36:42.039
A Larrynge scope, which is a scope with a light

713
00:36:42.199 --> 00:36:45.119
and mirrors to see and examine the larynx used to

714
00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:48.320
place breathing tubes, had been used on Sarah. It's a

715
00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:51.360
difficult device to place, and the question is could that

716
00:36:51.519 --> 00:36:54.599
have caused the damage to Sarah's neck. It took five

717
00:36:54.679 --> 00:36:57.920
attempts to place it in Sarah's throat, so the damage

718
00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:01.039
to Sarah's neck, It sounds like the autopsy determined that

719
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:05.440
that could have been caused by strangulation. But you're speculating

720
00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:07.920
here that the damage could have been from placing the

721
00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:09.800
scope down her throat. But I would think that would

722
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:12.360
be a very different type of injury, like coming from

723
00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:14.119
the inside of the throat from the outside.

724
00:37:14.440 --> 00:37:17.440
Yeah, but they were working on Sarah for forty five minutes.

725
00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:20.039
I think when we recorded this originally, I might have

726
00:37:20.119 --> 00:37:23.400
said the same thing if a twenty four year old woman,

727
00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:27.840
if you're called to that scene, you're gonna do anything

728
00:37:27.920 --> 00:37:30.440
you can to save her. Yeah, And that might be

729
00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:33.559
being aggressive and you know, shifting her neck, and you

730
00:37:33.639 --> 00:37:36.760
know there's multiple people working on her. So I think

731
00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:39.679
it's possible, but it does seem a little suspicious, I

732
00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:40.199
guess yeah.

733
00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:43.960
An expert witness for the prosecution said that, in her opinion,

734
00:37:44.199 --> 00:37:46.480
it would be impossible for someone to fall asleep in

735
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:50.239
the bathtub and drown unless they were heavily sedated or drugged.

736
00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:53.639
Sarah had no drugs or alcohol in her system. Could

737
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:58.159
Sarah have had narcolepsy or cataplexy. In both conditions, muscle

738
00:37:58.199 --> 00:38:00.920
control is lost and it could be possible to drown,

739
00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:04.559
But Sarah was never diagnosed with either of these conditions.

740
00:38:05.239 --> 00:38:07.400
On the third day of the trial, the bathtub where

741
00:38:07.480 --> 00:38:10.599
Sarah died was brought into the courtroom coated in black

742
00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:14.639
fingerprint powder. The jury watched as hidden marks became visible,

743
00:38:14.760 --> 00:38:18.000
and an expert was called to explain them. The impressions

744
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:20.840
were not detailed enough to identify who made them or when,

745
00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:24.519
but they included a forearm print, likely mail based on

746
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:29.760
hair patterns, circular marks consistent with bottles, downward fingertips, streaks

747
00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:33.320
near the faucet, swipe marks suggesting an attempt to wipe

748
00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:37.719
the tub, and partial palm prints throughout. Unbeknownst to the jury,

749
00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:42.440
Lieutenant Brayley had rejected other experts who offered less compelling testimony.

750
00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:45.639
Even so, the expert acknowledged that there was no way

751
00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:48.679
to determine the timing or source of the marks, noting

752
00:38:48.760 --> 00:38:52.599
that natural body oils leave prints in everyday use. When

753
00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:55.800
pressed by the defense, the expert conceded the scene could

754
00:38:55.880 --> 00:38:58.519
not be recreated. I would be really curious just to

755
00:38:58.599 --> 00:39:01.079
take a regular bathtub, our bad tub or anybody is

756
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:03.079
in fingerprinted and see what it looked like, because I

757
00:39:03.119 --> 00:39:05.360
can imagine there would be all sorts of marks on it.

758
00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:09.199
That's a very good point I think the downward finger marks.

759
00:39:09.280 --> 00:39:12.199
They were saying she was struggling and she was trying

760
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:15.480
to grasp onto something and that was indicative.

761
00:39:15.239 --> 00:39:17.599
Of her like maybe he was holding her head under

762
00:39:17.599 --> 00:39:19.000
the water and she was grasping.

763
00:39:19.239 --> 00:39:19.440
Yeah.

764
00:39:19.840 --> 00:39:22.400
Lieutenant Brayley was called to the stand and said that

765
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:26.440
he was surprised at how dry the bathroom was. The tub, carpet,

766
00:39:26.519 --> 00:39:29.199
and surrounding area were all dry, except for a few

767
00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:32.559
droplets around the tub drain. What he didn't say, though,

768
00:39:32.800 --> 00:39:35.000
is that two and a half hours had passed since

769
00:39:35.079 --> 00:39:37.119
the nine one one call had been placed and the

770
00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:41.440
crime scene was investigated. A forensic scientist had also testified

771
00:39:41.480 --> 00:39:44.440
that the floor had been wet. The bloody carpet. Samples

772
00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:46.559
that had been cut from the bedroom were put into

773
00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:49.639
a paper bag. The paper bag had water stains and

774
00:39:49.719 --> 00:39:52.880
the bottom of the bag had soaked through. Brayley also

775
00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:55.880
admitted that the fingerprint dusting powder used on the tub

776
00:39:56.159 --> 00:40:00.400
hadn't been used until two days after Sarah's death. That

777
00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:03.199
Sarah worked for testified that she often went to her

778
00:40:03.280 --> 00:40:06.159
car during breaks and took a nap. He also said

779
00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:08.199
that she hadn't felt well at work on the day

780
00:40:08.239 --> 00:40:11.400
of her death. The dentist also testified that Sarah had

781
00:40:11.400 --> 00:40:14.880
asked about life insurance and retirement planning, telling him that

782
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:17.440
Ryan had been on her ass about it. What she

783
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:19.800
didn't tell him, though, was that Ryan and Sarah had

784
00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:22.639
met with a financial planner after their wedding and they

785
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:26.320
recommended these things to them. Sarah's mom took the stand

786
00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:29.119
and said Sarah didn't have any health problems and she

787
00:40:29.239 --> 00:40:31.679
had never fallen asleep in the middle of a conversation

788
00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:35.199
like Ryan said that she had. She also said Ryan

789
00:40:35.320 --> 00:40:38.239
controlled her spending. On the fourth day of the trial,

790
00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:42.079
the coroner testified. Photos of Sarah's autopsy were shown on

791
00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:45.119
the big screen in the courtroom. The neck hemorrhage was

792
00:40:45.159 --> 00:40:48.239
about four inches and a two inch bruise was found

793
00:40:48.320 --> 00:40:51.800
above her sternum. The coroner said he thought those injuries

794
00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:54.039
could have been the result of being hit and not

795
00:40:54.239 --> 00:40:57.519
from the paramedic team that frantically tried to bring Sarah back.

796
00:40:57.800 --> 00:40:59.760
So wouldn't you think if she was strangled, she would

797
00:40:59.800 --> 00:41:02.960
have had more bruising than just one four inch bruise.

798
00:41:03.320 --> 00:41:06.280
I would think so, and likely they would have been

799
00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:10.159
in the shape of fingers or fingertips.

800
00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:13.400
Yeah, I would think that too. Sarah had cuts inside

801
00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:16.000
her upper lip that the coroner said he hadn't seen

802
00:41:16.159 --> 00:41:19.800
before from life saving measures, but it was possible. She

803
00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:22.960
also had several small bruises around her head and neck,

804
00:41:23.320 --> 00:41:27.679
none severe enough to cause unconsciousness. The coroner was sure, however,

805
00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:30.159
that the cause of her death was drowning, based on

806
00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:33.559
the fluid in her lungs and sinus cavities. The coroner

807
00:41:33.719 --> 00:41:37.199
was privy to some additional photos taken during a second autopsy,

808
00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:40.440
and another bruise had appeared on Sarah's neck after the

809
00:41:40.519 --> 00:41:44.960
first autopsy. Sometimes fresh bruises take time to appear. It

810
00:41:45.159 --> 00:41:48.519
was about the size of a thumb. The prosecution proposed

811
00:41:48.559 --> 00:41:50.679
that the bruise could have been the result of Ryan

812
00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:55.199
putting pressure on Sarah's carotid artery, which could cause unconsciousness

813
00:41:55.599 --> 00:41:58.960
if held for thirty seconds. The coroner maintained that he

814
00:41:59.119 --> 00:42:03.440
believed Sarah's death was homicide. When the defense questioned the coroner,

815
00:42:03.719 --> 00:42:07.199
he agreed that the chemo dilution, which is water entering

816
00:42:07.239 --> 00:42:11.000
the victim's blood, could cause bruises to look worse. The

817
00:42:11.119 --> 00:42:14.320
CPR attempts could also have made some of the bruising

818
00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:18.280
appear more severe. Rickers, Ryan's attorney got the coroner to

819
00:42:18.360 --> 00:42:22.000
admit he wasn't bored certified and it was possible that

820
00:42:22.119 --> 00:42:25.079
Sarah could have had a seizure, and he wasn't qualified

821
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:27.880
to examine her brain as to whether or not Sarah

822
00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:31.400
did have a seizure. Rickers also questioned the coroner about

823
00:42:31.400 --> 00:42:34.800
the lack of trauma to Sarah's neck. Typically, when someone

824
00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:39.559
is strangled, their hyoid bone is broken, but Sarah's was intact. Huh.

825
00:42:40.280 --> 00:42:42.719
The coroner said that even though there was no broken

826
00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:46.199
hyoid bone or severe bruising, he could not rule out

827
00:42:46.280 --> 00:42:50.000
a possible strangulation. While not ruling out a possible strangulations

828
00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:53.039
a lot different than saying you think there was a strangulation.

829
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:56.360
On the fifth day of the trial, the prosecution called

830
00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:59.920
their twentieth and final witness, doctor Charles Lee, a forends

831
00:43:00.199 --> 00:43:04.519
pathologist from Ohio. He agreed with the coroner's assessment, adding

832
00:43:04.599 --> 00:43:07.960
emphatically that it had to be a homicide. He also

833
00:43:08.039 --> 00:43:10.360
said that it was possible Sarah had drowned in a

834
00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:14.800
toilet or sink. On Monday, March thirtieth, the sixth day

835
00:43:14.840 --> 00:43:18.440
of the trial, the defense took over. Doctor Werner Spitz

836
00:43:18.559 --> 00:43:21.639
was the first witness. He had performed the second autopsy

837
00:43:21.800 --> 00:43:25.599
three days after the Warren County Coroner had performed his autopsy.

838
00:43:26.199 --> 00:43:29.599
Doctor Spitz was a high profile pathologist that had performed

839
00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:34.559
autopsies on JFK. Martin, Luther King Junior, Mary Joe Kopeckney.

840
00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:37.320
That's the woman that the film chap Equittic is based on,

841
00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:41.280
Richard Ramirez, also known as the night Stalker Killer, and

842
00:43:41.639 --> 00:43:45.159
Kaylee Anthony. He worked on the John Benet Ramsey case

843
00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:48.440
and accused her brother Burke of being the killer. Burke

844
00:43:48.519 --> 00:43:52.880
later sued him. Spitz explained that during drownings, lungs absorbed

845
00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:56.400
more water, blood pressure rises and causes red blood cells

846
00:43:56.440 --> 00:44:00.360
to explode, which releases hemoglobin into the body, and the

847
00:44:00.440 --> 00:44:04.480
result is more bleeding, which causes injuries to appear more exaggerated.

848
00:44:05.039 --> 00:44:07.480
The bruises on Sarah's head could have been from her

849
00:44:07.559 --> 00:44:10.119
hitting her own head on the bathtub during a seizure.

850
00:44:10.679 --> 00:44:12.440
He didn't think they were from a blow to the

851
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:16.440
head because they would probably be more severe. Spitz said

852
00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:18.960
that the cause of death was drowning, but the manner

853
00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:22.519
of death was uncertain. Spitz said that it was possible

854
00:44:22.599 --> 00:44:25.360
Sarah's death could have been caused by a sudden cardiac

855
00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:27.480
event or a first time seizure.

856
00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:31.480
I apologize for all of this trial information. I think

857
00:44:31.960 --> 00:44:35.000
since our first year we have tried to reduce all

858
00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:39.480
of the trials stuff to make it more concise and summarized.

859
00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:42.800
But so much of the evidence in this trial wasn't

860
00:44:43.239 --> 00:44:45.960
released until they were actually at the trial.

861
00:44:46.039 --> 00:44:48.480
I actually think it's interesting going through the kind of

862
00:44:48.519 --> 00:44:51.400
the evidence in this level of detail and hearing both

863
00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:55.519
the prosecution and defense's interpretation of the evidence. We'll be

864
00:44:55.599 --> 00:44:56.480
back after a break.

865
00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:02.639
Terrible plant.

866
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:11.440
That so, Sarah's friend Amy was the last person she

867
00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:14.639
had talked to other than Ryan before her death. Sarah

868
00:45:14.679 --> 00:45:17.239
told Amy that she had a bad headache and pain

869
00:45:17.360 --> 00:45:20.679
in her neck. This was about seven pm. Amy said

870
00:45:20.719 --> 00:45:23.519
Sarah hadn't sounded good. She did hear Ryan in the

871
00:45:23.559 --> 00:45:27.199
background and the couple seemed fine. Ruth Anne, Sarah's mom,

872
00:45:27.320 --> 00:45:30.400
had testified that she talked to Sarah somewhere between five

873
00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:33.519
and seven PM and she hadn't mentioned not feeling well

874
00:45:33.599 --> 00:45:37.519
to her. But Sarah's boss had testified that she hadn't

875
00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:40.719
felt well that day. Several friends testified that Sarah had

876
00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:45.920
frequent headaches or migraines, sometimes with visual disturbance. Migraines can

877
00:45:46.039 --> 00:45:50.000
be a precursor to epileptic seizures. Many of the character

878
00:45:50.079 --> 00:45:54.199
witnesses testified about Sarah's sleep issues. All of the witnesses

879
00:45:54.239 --> 00:45:57.039
said that Ryan and Sarah seemed happy together and Sarah

880
00:45:57.159 --> 00:46:01.079
had never said anything other than good things about Sarah

881
00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:04.920
was sweet and kind, but also assertive when necessary, and

882
00:46:05.079 --> 00:46:08.440
no one could imagine her not fighting back if someone

883
00:46:08.559 --> 00:46:11.119
was trying to hurt her. On the seventh day of

884
00:46:11.159 --> 00:46:13.760
the trial, everyone finally found out what was in the

885
00:46:13.840 --> 00:46:17.639
two envelopes that were labeled in case of a marriage emergency.

886
00:46:18.159 --> 00:46:21.039
Prior to the wedding, Ryan and Sarah had attended marriage

887
00:46:21.079 --> 00:46:24.360
counseling through their church, and all engaged couples were given

888
00:46:24.440 --> 00:46:29.199
these envelopes that contained marriage support brochures. So that's all

889
00:46:29.239 --> 00:46:32.519
that it was sounded like it was more scintillating, right.

890
00:46:32.679 --> 00:46:35.000
Yeah, that's actually what I would have guessed it was.

891
00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:35.639
But yeah.

892
00:46:35.800 --> 00:46:38.760
An emergency room doctor testified that he believed all of

893
00:46:38.840 --> 00:46:41.960
the bruising on Sarah's body was from the medical interventions

894
00:46:42.159 --> 00:46:45.920
used to save her life. He said resuscitation is not

895
00:46:46.159 --> 00:46:50.039
a delicate procedure and a lot of forces required, especially

896
00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:54.440
when the patient is unresponsive, and especially because Sarah was

897
00:46:54.519 --> 00:46:56.840
so young, they wanted to do anything they could to

898
00:46:56.920 --> 00:46:59.960
save her life. The er doctor continued to explain that

899
00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:03.119
each year in the US third three hundred thousand people

900
00:47:03.280 --> 00:47:05.880
die of unexplained deaths, and up to two percent of

901
00:47:05.960 --> 00:47:08.599
those deaths the current people under the age of thirty two,

902
00:47:08.960 --> 00:47:12.280
and their autopsies reveal no discernible cause of death.

903
00:47:12.400 --> 00:47:13.239
That's kind of crazy.

904
00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:17.440
Another witness for the defense, a forensic pathologist who was

905
00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:22.800
also certified in anatomical pathology and neuropathology, testified that the

906
00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:26.320
suspicious bruising on Sarah's neck and chest was most likely

907
00:47:26.440 --> 00:47:29.039
due to a chest tube placed by the medics. The

908
00:47:29.119 --> 00:47:32.599
prosecuting attorney asked this same witness why he thought Sarah's

909
00:47:32.599 --> 00:47:35.840
body was dry when the paramedics arrived. He was ready

910
00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:38.599
for this question. He said that just that morning he

911
00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:41.280
had decided to not towel off to see how long

912
00:47:41.360 --> 00:47:43.679
it took his skin to dry. He said he knew

913
00:47:43.719 --> 00:47:46.920
it wasn't scientific, but after seven minutes he was dry,

914
00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:49.800
and that was the length of Ryan's nine one one call.

915
00:47:50.159 --> 00:47:53.079
He was the last witness for the defense. Ryan had

916
00:47:53.119 --> 00:47:57.599
decided not to testify. Closing arguments began on day eight.

917
00:47:57.960 --> 00:48:01.079
The prosecution alleged that rigor mortis was setting into Sarah's

918
00:48:01.119 --> 00:48:03.760
body by the time the paramedics had arrived on the scene,

919
00:48:03.840 --> 00:48:06.760
indicating that Ryan had not called nine one one until

920
00:48:06.800 --> 00:48:09.599
he had cleaned up the scene. But his claim had

921
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:12.599
not been mentioned prior to closing arguments or by any

922
00:48:12.679 --> 00:48:17.519
expert witness, nor did any evidence support this claim. Ritgers objected,

923
00:48:17.639 --> 00:48:20.320
and the judge allowed it and said the jury can

924
00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:21.920
decide what is evidence.

925
00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:23.960
I seem to recall earlier and I don't know what

926
00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:26.400
the source of this was, but we had mentioned that

927
00:48:26.639 --> 00:48:29.920
her body was warm also, so that seems to contradict

928
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:31.119
this whole rigor mortis.

929
00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:34.960
Ritger's closing arguments centered on the dry theory, how in

930
00:48:35.159 --> 00:48:38.639
actuality the rug samples were wet and the magazines found

931
00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:41.840
near the tub had crinkled pages. He also focused on

932
00:48:41.880 --> 00:48:44.039
the lack of motive and the lack of any signs

933
00:48:44.079 --> 00:48:47.119
of struggle on either Ryan or Sarah's body. And remember

934
00:48:47.440 --> 00:48:49.159
Ryan was just wearing his box or shirts. But I

935
00:48:49.199 --> 00:48:51.480
guess he could have taken off his clothes, but the

936
00:48:51.599 --> 00:48:55.840
jury began deliberations around noon. They requested to see the

937
00:48:55.920 --> 00:48:59.880
bathtub again. Everyone wondered what that might mean. Most of

938
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:03.039
the people waiting around for the verdict were Ryan's supporters.

939
00:49:03.559 --> 00:49:06.719
The jury worked until eleven forty five pm and came

940
00:49:06.800 --> 00:49:09.159
back at nine a m. The next day. At eight

941
00:49:09.239 --> 00:49:12.360
twenty six pm, on day two of deliberations, they reached

942
00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:16.199
a verdict. The jury filed in avoiding eye contact with Ryan.

943
00:49:16.679 --> 00:49:19.760
On the count of aggravated murder, Ryan was found not guilty.

944
00:49:20.199 --> 00:49:23.000
Tears filled his eyes and applause filled the room. On

945
00:49:23.079 --> 00:49:26.599
the count of murder, Ryan was found guilty. Everyone in

946
00:49:26.679 --> 00:49:30.159
the courtroom was gobsmacked. People were weeping and calling out,

947
00:49:30.239 --> 00:49:34.079
oh God. Even the media seemed shocked. Ryan doubled over

948
00:49:34.119 --> 00:49:36.159
when the verdict was read and later said he'd felt

949
00:49:36.199 --> 00:49:38.360
like he'd been hitt in the stomach with a sledgehammer.

950
00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:41.920
The judge told Ryan the sentence for murder was fifteen

951
00:49:42.039 --> 00:49:44.440
years to life. Then he asked Ryan if he had

952
00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:47.119
anything to say. He kissed his wedding ring and said,

953
00:49:47.320 --> 00:49:50.400
I love my wife. I did not hurt her. Leaving

954
00:49:50.440 --> 00:49:53.480
the court room, Ryan could be heard sobbing, and he said,

955
00:49:53.679 --> 00:49:55.840
I have been good all my life. I would never

956
00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:59.480
hurt anyone, especially kill someone. How could this be happening

957
00:49:59.559 --> 00:50:01.840
to me? So at this point Ryan had a great

958
00:50:01.840 --> 00:50:05.199
deal of public support. The majority believed in his innocence.

959
00:50:05.679 --> 00:50:09.400
The Freryanwidmer dot com website and message board received over

960
00:50:09.519 --> 00:50:13.199
one hundred thousand views the first month. Free Ryan T shirts,

961
00:50:13.239 --> 00:50:17.960
bumper stickers, and other merch was produced. Fundraisers, including golf outings,

962
00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:21.320
were held to assist the Widmers in paying for his defense.

963
00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:24.800
A juror was interviewed and he said that the dry

964
00:50:24.920 --> 00:50:28.079
bathroom and dry Sarah were the things that they struggled

965
00:50:28.119 --> 00:50:32.239
with the most, but also ryan stoic demeanor, which his

966
00:50:32.360 --> 00:50:36.440
attorney told them say right yeah. He also said that

967
00:50:36.480 --> 00:50:39.119
the jury didn't believe the timeline of the nine one

968
00:50:39.199 --> 00:50:42.360
one call. It took Ryan twenty nine seconds to take

969
00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:45.119
Sarah out of the tub. The jury used a stop,

970
00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:47.639
watched and re enacted the nine to one one call.

971
00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:50.960
So this is problematic because the jury is not using

972
00:50:51.039 --> 00:50:55.480
the evidence produced during the trial but doing their own investigation.

973
00:50:55.239 --> 00:50:57.920
So they were speculating that twenty nine seconds to take

974
00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:00.360
Sarah out of the bath was not long off for

975
00:51:00.519 --> 00:51:03.000
too long, because it's like, I haven't tried this, but

976
00:51:03.360 --> 00:51:04.920
it seems pretty reasonable to me.

977
00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:07.519
I think so too. I'm not sure what they meant.

978
00:51:08.320 --> 00:51:12.079
Warren County prosecutor Rachel Hudzell gave a post verdict interview

979
00:51:12.199 --> 00:51:14.679
defending the conviction, citing the nine to one to one

980
00:51:14.800 --> 00:51:18.519
call is key evidence and suggesting Ryan should have testified.

981
00:51:18.960 --> 00:51:22.880
She also publicly disclosed that Ryan had visited a swinger's website,

982
00:51:22.960 --> 00:51:27.280
information the judge had barred from trial. Ryan's attorney, Charlie Rikers,

983
00:51:27.360 --> 00:51:30.360
pushed back, noting there was no evidence Ryan had ever

984
00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:35.039
interacted with anyone on the swinger website. Hutzell also released

985
00:51:35.320 --> 00:51:39.280
re enactment videos of Sarah's death, material the judge had

986
00:51:39.519 --> 00:51:44.000
likewise excluded from the courtroom. That's underhanded, isn't it.

987
00:51:44.440 --> 00:51:46.960
Yeah, it's almost like you're trying to convince the media

988
00:51:47.039 --> 00:51:50.159
and the public of his guilt with evidence that wasn't

989
00:51:50.199 --> 00:51:53.480
allowed in trial, right, and that does seem underhanded.

990
00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:56.440
A week after the trial ended, Rickers filed an appeal

991
00:51:56.480 --> 00:51:58.400
and asked for Ryan to be acquitted and given a

992
00:51:58.480 --> 00:52:01.400
new trial, based on poor evidence and theories given by

993
00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:05.840
the prosecution that changed based not on fact, but suspicions

994
00:52:05.920 --> 00:52:09.880
and hunches. After the trial, one juror named John was

995
00:52:09.960 --> 00:52:13.760
plagued with guilt over how deliberations had been handled. Just

996
00:52:13.920 --> 00:52:17.000
days later, he consulted an attorney, who advised him to

997
00:52:17.159 --> 00:52:21.599
contact the judge. After further reflection, John instead reached out

998
00:52:21.599 --> 00:52:25.800
to Ryan's attorney, Charlie Whitkers. In his letter, John revealed

999
00:52:25.840 --> 00:52:30.000
that three jurors had conducted their own at home experiments

1000
00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:33.679
to determine how long a body or bathroom rug takes

1001
00:52:33.760 --> 00:52:37.119
to dry after a bath. One durer reported checking her

1002
00:52:37.159 --> 00:52:40.320
bathroom rug hours after bathing her child and shared the

1003
00:52:40.400 --> 00:52:42.199
results with the jury the next day.

1004
00:52:43.119 --> 00:52:44.039
That's a real no no.

1005
00:52:44.599 --> 00:52:49.159
Such independent investigations violated jury rules, which requires verdicts to

1006
00:52:49.239 --> 00:52:53.000
be based solely on evidence presented in court. The jurors

1007
00:52:53.079 --> 00:52:56.679
and formal experiments were conducted in uncontrolled settings and bore

1008
00:52:56.760 --> 00:53:00.280
little resemblance to the conditions of Sarah's bathroom on a

1009
00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:03.440
summer night in August. I can see in this case

1010
00:53:03.639 --> 00:53:07.239
how tempting it is to do that at hard because

1011
00:53:07.280 --> 00:53:08.840
it's you know, we all get out of the shower

1012
00:53:08.920 --> 00:53:09.920
every day, and right, it.

1013
00:53:09.920 --> 00:53:13.280
Would be tempting, but they're explicitly instructed not to do

1014
00:53:13.400 --> 00:53:14.079
that sort of thing.

1015
00:53:14.639 --> 00:53:17.880
Rickers had John sign an affidavit based on his letter,

1016
00:53:18.039 --> 00:53:20.840
and then amended his appeal with the new information provided

1017
00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:23.039
by John. John had made it clear that he thought

1018
00:53:23.079 --> 00:53:26.280
the jury had come to the correct conclusion, but he

1019
00:53:26.440 --> 00:53:29.599
was uncomfortable that the jurors did their own research. Two

1020
00:53:29.719 --> 00:53:34.039
more jurors also signed affidavits confirming John's story. After the

1021
00:53:34.119 --> 00:53:37.360
news broke about the jury issues, a Cincinnati Inquirer poll

1022
00:53:37.599 --> 00:53:40.079
found that eighty percent of the public thought that Ryan

1023
00:53:40.159 --> 00:53:43.119
deserved a new trial. The prosecution was able to get

1024
00:53:43.159 --> 00:53:46.679
affidavits from seven additional jurors who said that the drying

1025
00:53:46.760 --> 00:53:50.079
experiments by them didn't impact their decision, but two of

1026
00:53:50.159 --> 00:53:53.920
the jurors affidavits did state that the drying experiment impacted

1027
00:53:53.960 --> 00:53:54.559
their decision.

1028
00:53:54.639 --> 00:53:57.320
I mean, even if just one juror said it impacted

1029
00:53:57.360 --> 00:53:59.119
their decision, then definitely.

1030
00:53:59.639 --> 00:54:02.760
And I guess we don't know, you know, the conditions

1031
00:54:02.840 --> 00:54:05.559
of that night, And like you pointed out, which is

1032
00:54:05.599 --> 00:54:07.519
a really good thing to point out, is you know,

1033
00:54:07.599 --> 00:54:11.039
he sat her body up first on the wall of

1034
00:54:11.159 --> 00:54:13.519
the tub, right, and then he took her out. So

1035
00:54:13.760 --> 00:54:16.599
a lot of you know the water would have evaporated

1036
00:54:16.639 --> 00:54:17.199
in that time.

1037
00:54:17.320 --> 00:54:17.480
Yep.

1038
00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:21.039
And the woman who compared like the bathtub from like

1039
00:54:21.159 --> 00:54:24.440
bathing her child, I mean, they're probably could have been

1040
00:54:24.519 --> 00:54:25.159
more splashing.

1041
00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:25.920
You just don't know.

1042
00:54:26.519 --> 00:54:28.719
On July twenty second, two thousand and nine, the judge

1043
00:54:28.760 --> 00:54:31.280
ruled that Ryan must be granted a new trial based

1044
00:54:31.320 --> 00:54:34.760
on the external influences of the jury. The judge ordered

1045
00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:37.480
Ryan back to the county jail instead of prison, where

1046
00:54:37.480 --> 00:54:39.599
he would await his trial, and his bail was once

1047
00:54:39.679 --> 00:54:42.920
again set at one million dollars. And his family they're

1048
00:54:43.000 --> 00:54:46.000
not wealthy people, so it was I think really hard

1049
00:54:46.079 --> 00:54:49.719
on them. Charlie, Ryan's attorney, said that the day Ryan

1050
00:54:49.840 --> 00:54:52.360
was granted a new trial was one of the happiest

1051
00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:55.159
days of his life. And September third, Ryan's bail was

1052
00:54:55.239 --> 00:54:58.000
produced to four hundred thousand dollars and Ryan's family was

1053
00:54:58.119 --> 00:55:01.880
able to scrape together to release within two hours. Ryan

1054
00:55:01.960 --> 00:55:04.719
and his family were thrilled, but things were also challenging

1055
00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:08.559
with his family. The mounting legal bills were overwhelming. Gary

1056
00:55:08.599 --> 00:55:11.320
and Jill Widmer had both spent every penny they had

1057
00:55:11.639 --> 00:55:14.559
and empty their retirement accounts to pay for his defense.

1058
00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:18.239
Ryan's house on Crested Al Court had gone into foreclosure

1059
00:55:18.519 --> 00:55:21.559
and they sold everything that they possibly could. The emotional

1060
00:55:21.639 --> 00:55:25.559
and financial stress was overwhelming, especially to Jill. She turned

1061
00:55:25.559 --> 00:55:28.400
to alcohol to lessen her burden, and her family didn't

1062
00:55:28.400 --> 00:55:31.119
know how to help her or how seriously troubled she

1063
00:55:31.360 --> 00:55:32.119
truly was.

1064
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:35.920
That's really sad. On September eighteenth, two thousand and nine,

1065
00:55:36.199 --> 00:55:39.519
Dateline aired an episode titled The Mystery in the Master

1066
00:55:39.639 --> 00:55:43.360
Bedroom about Ryan and Sarah, just two weeks before Ryan's

1067
00:55:43.360 --> 00:55:47.119
second trial began. The broadcast renewed public interest in the

1068
00:55:47.199 --> 00:55:49.360
case and led to a surge in traffic to the

1069
00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:53.400
Free Ryan website. Before the second trial, Ryan hired three

1070
00:55:53.480 --> 00:55:57.159
new attorneys from Cincinnati, believing the case was too complex

1071
00:55:57.280 --> 00:56:01.760
for a single small town lawyer. Regional attorney had performed well,

1072
00:56:01.880 --> 00:56:05.599
but was viewed as not aggressive enough. During the first trial,

1073
00:56:05.719 --> 00:56:09.880
Rickers uncovered discrepancies in the credentials of Lieutenant Jeff Brayley,

1074
00:56:10.119 --> 00:56:14.000
the lead investigator, including false claims about a master's degree

1075
00:56:14.360 --> 00:56:18.280
and prior work as a postal inspector. Although Rickers chose

1076
00:56:18.360 --> 00:56:20.800
not to use this information at the first trial, he

1077
00:56:20.920 --> 00:56:23.360
shared it with the new defense team, who planned to

1078
00:56:23.480 --> 00:56:27.920
introduce it. The judge, however, ruled it inadmissible. Judge Bronson,

1079
00:56:27.960 --> 00:56:31.519
who had presided over the first trial, also oversaw the second.

1080
00:56:32.119 --> 00:56:34.039
Do you think that information should have been allowed in

1081
00:56:34.079 --> 00:56:34.480
the trial?

1082
00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:37.440
You know, I don't. It's a good question. I don't

1083
00:56:37.440 --> 00:56:39.480
really know. I mean, what he lied about had no

1084
00:56:39.960 --> 00:56:43.440
relevance to the case at all, but it does seem.

1085
00:56:43.679 --> 00:56:47.000
Point to him, Yeah, not being the most honest and

1086
00:56:47.119 --> 00:56:49.679
forthright person, which I feel like is pertinent.

1087
00:56:49.960 --> 00:56:52.760
Yeah, I guess so. There were also questions about the

1088
00:56:52.840 --> 00:56:55.440
nine to one to one dispatcher's performance. On his call

1089
00:56:55.519 --> 00:56:58.559
with Ryan. He sounded sleepy and had been known to

1090
00:56:58.639 --> 00:57:01.119
fall asleep on the job before. That's not a good

1091
00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:03.519
thing for a nine one one operator. No, I thought

1092
00:57:03.519 --> 00:57:05.320
about that when we listened to the call. That he

1093
00:57:05.400 --> 00:57:08.079
did sound a little bit if someone woke him up,

1094
00:57:08.079 --> 00:57:08.719
a little out of it.

1095
00:57:08.840 --> 00:57:09.039
Yeah.

1096
00:57:09.719 --> 00:57:12.039
There were long pauses on his call with Ryan, and

1097
00:57:12.280 --> 00:57:15.000
he had failed to give him CPR instructions when he

1098
00:57:15.079 --> 00:57:18.280
said he didn't know how to administer CPR. The nine

1099
00:57:18.320 --> 00:57:21.239
one one dispatcher issue caused an uproar in the community,

1100
00:57:21.559 --> 00:57:25.840
and the county's emergency management director resigned. The defense attempted

1101
00:57:25.880 --> 00:57:28.480
to get the nine one one call excluded from evidence,

1102
00:57:28.840 --> 00:57:31.559
but the judge ruled it could still be used. The

1103
00:57:31.639 --> 00:57:34.679
defense was excited about an expert witness they found that

1104
00:57:34.800 --> 00:57:37.400
could answer the question about how long it would have

1105
00:57:37.480 --> 00:57:40.320
taken Sarah's body to dry on the night of her death.

1106
00:57:40.760 --> 00:57:43.599
By analyzing the weather the night Sarah died, as well

1107
00:57:43.639 --> 00:57:46.639
as the floor plan of the Widmer house and their HVAC,

1108
00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:49.599
he determined that it was possible Sarah could have been

1109
00:57:49.679 --> 00:57:53.440
dry by the time the paramedics arrived. The prosecution argued

1110
00:57:53.480 --> 00:57:56.400
that his methods were unreliable, and the judge ruled in

1111
00:57:56.480 --> 00:57:59.599
their favor. So the witness wasn't allowed to testify.

1112
00:58:00.159 --> 00:58:03.159
We've said it before, but judges really can affect the

1113
00:58:03.199 --> 00:58:04.079
outcome of a trial.

1114
00:58:04.360 --> 00:58:07.039
Yeah, that is strange. I'd love to know more details

1115
00:58:07.039 --> 00:58:10.239
about why the judge ruled that that testing wasn't reliable,

1116
00:58:10.239 --> 00:58:13.920
because an expert witness should if they're an expert, you know,

1117
00:58:14.079 --> 00:58:17.840
they should be allowed to conduct their experiments the way

1118
00:58:17.880 --> 00:58:20.280
that they think is right. So it's kind of strange.

1119
00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:24.440
On Monday May tenth, twenty ten, trial number two started.

1120
00:58:24.920 --> 00:58:28.480
Jury selection took two days, with both sides proceeding cautiously.

1121
00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:31.360
On the third day of the trial, jurors visited the

1122
00:58:31.400 --> 00:58:35.000
Widmer home on Crested Owl Lane. The defense wanted them

1123
00:58:35.039 --> 00:58:38.280
to see the small bathroom where Sarah drowned, arguing that

1124
00:58:38.480 --> 00:58:41.800
any violent struggle would have caused more injuries to both

1125
00:58:41.920 --> 00:58:45.760
Sarah and Ryan and more damage to the space. Ryan

1126
00:58:45.880 --> 00:58:48.480
did not enter the house, remaining in the garage due

1127
00:58:48.519 --> 00:58:49.639
to the emotional toll.

1128
00:58:49.880 --> 00:58:52.280
I believe this field trip was a little awkward because

1129
00:58:52.360 --> 00:58:55.639
someone else was living in the house at the time that.

1130
00:58:55.679 --> 00:58:58.679
Would be very awkward. Ruth Ann Steward took the stand

1131
00:58:58.760 --> 00:59:01.039
at the second trial, but this time she took a

1132
00:59:01.119 --> 00:59:04.679
more aggressive stance, saying that Sarah and Ryan argued and

1133
00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:08.519
gave vague examples. No other witness to Sarah and Ryan's

1134
00:59:08.559 --> 00:59:12.199
marriage would describe them as argumentative. One of the female

1135
00:59:12.280 --> 00:59:15.079
defense attorneys made a point of telling ruth Anne that

1136
00:59:15.239 --> 00:59:17.480
on the night of Sarah's death, she had been his

1137
00:59:17.599 --> 00:59:20.480
first call, and he'd called her five times before he

1138
00:59:20.559 --> 00:59:23.199
reached her, and he had called her before calling his

1139
00:59:23.320 --> 00:59:27.159
own mom, and she hadn't known this. A doctor testified

1140
00:59:27.199 --> 00:59:31.000
for the prosecution that Sarah probably had over four thousand

1141
00:59:31.159 --> 00:59:34.880
chess compressions, yet no bruising appeared in the area where

1142
00:59:34.920 --> 00:59:38.119
he would expect bruising to occur. He was implying that

1143
00:59:38.320 --> 00:59:40.920
the other bruises may have been the result of injuries

1144
00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:44.280
caused by Ryan. The defense followed this question up with

1145
00:59:44.400 --> 00:59:47.239
a different doctor who agreed that the hemorrhage found on

1146
00:59:47.400 --> 00:59:50.800
Sarah's chest during the autopsy could have been caused by

1147
00:59:50.880 --> 00:59:54.679
the chest compressions. The prosecution wrapped up after three long

1148
00:59:54.800 --> 00:59:58.280
days of witness testimony, much of it being medical experts,

1149
00:59:58.480 --> 01:00:02.559
which can be tedious for hers jury. Legal experts pontificated

1150
01:00:02.639 --> 01:00:05.679
that the prosecution's case was not as strong. In trial

1151
01:00:05.760 --> 01:00:09.559
number two. The defense focused on character witnesses the first

1152
01:00:09.639 --> 01:00:12.559
three days, but then on the fourth day, doctor Spitz,

1153
01:00:12.719 --> 01:00:16.440
the famous pathologist, returned and once again said the bruising

1154
01:00:16.519 --> 01:00:19.719
on Sarah was due to the increased water in her blood,

1155
01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:23.400
which caused greater pressure in her veins, resulting in burst

1156
01:00:23.519 --> 01:00:27.400
red blood cells and increased bruising. And he also agreed

1157
01:00:27.440 --> 01:00:30.119
that the hemorrhage the coroner used to rule Sarah's death

1158
01:00:30.280 --> 01:00:34.360
a homicide was due to the medical interventions to revive Sarah.

1159
01:00:35.079 --> 01:00:37.320
Spitz also said that there was no evidence of a

1160
01:00:37.400 --> 01:00:40.719
heart problem or seizure, but that couldn't be ruled out.

1161
01:00:41.440 --> 01:00:44.840
Another medical expert was brought in and made some startling claims,

1162
01:00:45.039 --> 01:00:48.400
among them, a hot bath can induce a seizure. The

1163
01:00:48.559 --> 01:00:51.360
average age of a first time seizure is twenty three

1164
01:00:51.440 --> 01:00:54.760
point eight, that Sarah was twenty four. One person in

1165
01:00:54.880 --> 01:00:58.000
one hundred will suffer a seizure in their lifetime. Many

1166
01:00:58.119 --> 01:01:01.920
heart and neurological issues are not detectable in an autopsy.

1167
01:01:02.480 --> 01:01:06.280
The doctor testified for over five hours. On Wednesday, May

1168
01:01:06.360 --> 01:01:10.280
twenty sixth, the closing arguments were presented. The prosecution played

1169
01:01:10.280 --> 01:01:12.320
the nine to one one tape and brought in its

1170
01:01:12.440 --> 01:01:15.880
star witness, the Bathtub. The defense argued that there were

1171
01:01:15.920 --> 01:01:18.880
more questions than answers in the case and there must

1172
01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:22.840
be reasonable doubt of Ryan's guilt. After about twenty hours

1173
01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:25.519
of deliberation over two and a half days, the jury

1174
01:01:25.639 --> 01:01:28.920
told the judge they were struggling to reach a unanimous verdict.

1175
01:01:29.320 --> 01:01:33.719
He urged them to continue, but they remained divided. Deliberations

1176
01:01:33.760 --> 01:01:36.800
paused for a Memorial Day weekend and resumed on Tuesday,

1177
01:01:36.880 --> 01:01:40.079
June first. By the end of that day, after roughly

1178
01:01:40.199 --> 01:01:44.239
thirty hours total, the jury was still deadlocked. In response,

1179
01:01:44.400 --> 01:01:47.920
Ryan's attorneys filed a last ditch motion asking the judge

1180
01:01:47.960 --> 01:01:50.840
to acquit him based on the hung jury. We'll be

1181
01:01:50.960 --> 01:01:52.239
back after a break.

1182
01:01:55.199 --> 01:02:01.960
Bringing cal plaguing Sura that so.

1183
01:02:05.199 --> 01:02:08.119
During the second trial, Jill, Ryan's mom, was having a

1184
01:02:08.280 --> 01:02:12.719
serious nervous breakdown and battle with alcoholism. Her behavior was

1185
01:02:12.800 --> 01:02:16.639
unhinged and dangerous. She was arrested for drunk driving. She

1186
01:02:16.679 --> 01:02:20.000
would send horrible emails and text messages to people in

1187
01:02:20.039 --> 01:02:22.360
the middle of the night, and even referred to Ryan

1188
01:02:22.480 --> 01:02:26.159
as a murderer. She was sent to rehab in psychiatric words,

1189
01:02:26.280 --> 01:02:30.639
but nothing could help the once successful and unflappable Jill.

1190
01:02:31.400 --> 01:02:33.960
In the summer after trial number two, the media found

1191
01:02:34.000 --> 01:02:37.159
out about a document that a witness brought forwarde from

1192
01:02:37.199 --> 01:02:40.159
the dental office where Sarah worked. It revealed that Sarah

1193
01:02:40.239 --> 01:02:42.880
had self reported that she had been diagnosed with a

1194
01:02:42.960 --> 01:02:46.280
heart murmur on a health history form from two thousand

1195
01:02:46.320 --> 01:02:50.119
and six, two years before her death. Judge Brownson didn't

1196
01:02:50.119 --> 01:02:51.960
allow this to be used in the second trial, but

1197
01:02:52.119 --> 01:02:55.239
Ryan's defense team used it in their appeal. The heart

1198
01:02:55.360 --> 01:02:58.239
murmur was diagnosed when Sarah was a baby, and had

1199
01:02:58.360 --> 01:03:01.559
corrected itself as heart murmurs often due in small children,

1200
01:03:01.800 --> 01:03:05.079
but Sarah had never again been seen by a heart specialist.

1201
01:03:05.559 --> 01:03:08.480
As many as seven jurors from trial number two thought

1202
01:03:08.559 --> 01:03:12.480
Ryan was innocent, and three of them signed affidavits encouraging

1203
01:03:12.559 --> 01:03:16.039
Judge Bronson to acquit him. Four of the jurors attended

1204
01:03:16.239 --> 01:03:18.960
Ryan's acquittal hearing in August and said on the front

1205
01:03:19.079 --> 01:03:21.760
row to support him, but the judge denied the motion

1206
01:03:22.000 --> 01:03:26.199
and set the date for the third trial January twenty eleven.

1207
01:03:26.599 --> 01:03:27.239
Third trial.

1208
01:03:27.679 --> 01:03:30.320
After spending more than five hundred thousand dollars on the

1209
01:03:30.360 --> 01:03:33.880
first two trials, Ryan's family was financially exhausted. A donor

1210
01:03:33.880 --> 01:03:37.400
step forward to contribute sixty thousand dollars towards his defense.

1211
01:03:37.880 --> 01:03:40.599
Two of the defense attorneys from the second trial returned,

1212
01:03:40.679 --> 01:03:44.280
and a third, Charles Ritker's son also named Charles, who

1213
01:03:44.360 --> 01:03:47.119
had represented Ryan in the first trial, join the team

1214
01:03:47.199 --> 01:03:51.480
pro bono. In a fascinating turn up events, prosecutors offered

1215
01:03:51.559 --> 01:03:55.719
Ryan a plea deal before the third trial started. He

1216
01:03:55.760 --> 01:03:57.960
would plead to a lesser charge, he would get a

1217
01:03:58.039 --> 01:04:01.320
five year sentence. Ryan's said no way would he ever

1218
01:04:01.480 --> 01:04:04.639
plead guilty. He was adamant that he had not killed

1219
01:04:04.679 --> 01:04:08.159
his wife. The prosecution had a witness listed on court

1220
01:04:08.280 --> 01:04:11.320
documents as Jane Doe. The trial was set to start,

1221
01:04:11.400 --> 01:04:13.239
but the judge gave the defense a few days to

1222
01:04:13.320 --> 01:04:16.920
prepare for this new mystery witness mystery Witness Yeah. The

1223
01:04:17.000 --> 01:04:20.639
trial began on January twenty sixth, twenty eleven. They again

1224
01:04:20.800 --> 01:04:25.599
went to Crestadowle Court. During opening arguments, the prosecution revealed

1225
01:04:25.719 --> 01:04:28.480
that the mystery witness was a young woman from Iowa

1226
01:04:28.599 --> 01:04:31.800
who had connected with Brian through the Free Ryan Whidmer

1227
01:04:31.880 --> 01:04:36.320
website after watching a Dayline episode. The two communicated frequently

1228
01:04:36.400 --> 01:04:39.519
by text, email and phone. She later claimed that during

1229
01:04:39.679 --> 01:04:43.280
one late night phone call, Ryan confessed to killing his wife.

1230
01:04:44.159 --> 01:04:46.960
The two bloodstains found on the bedroom carpet had long

1231
01:04:47.119 --> 01:04:50.039
challenged the defense. In the third trial, they offered a

1232
01:04:50.119 --> 01:04:54.239
new explanation. The second stain may have been from menstrual blood.

1233
01:04:54.519 --> 01:04:57.639
A tampon was recovered from the trash, and a paramedic

1234
01:04:57.719 --> 01:05:01.280
testified that menstrual fluid was vis visible when he was

1235
01:05:01.400 --> 01:05:05.480
doing chess compressions on Sarah. Ruth Ann Stewart, Sarah's mom,

1236
01:05:05.559 --> 01:05:07.840
once again took the stand and this time, she was

1237
01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:11.280
even more aggressive in her statements and said Ryan and

1238
01:05:11.400 --> 01:05:12.920
Sarah were hateful to each other.

1239
01:05:13.119 --> 01:05:16.119
It's quite an evolution over the course of three trials.

1240
01:05:16.320 --> 01:05:19.400
Yeah guesps could be heard throughout the courtroom, and Ryan

1241
01:05:19.599 --> 01:05:23.159
was also shocked. Then the so called mystery witness testified

1242
01:05:23.199 --> 01:05:27.239
on February second. Her name was Jennifer Jean Crue thirty six,

1243
01:05:27.400 --> 01:05:30.559
a bartender and club manager with a prior conviction for

1244
01:05:30.719 --> 01:05:34.239
theft and fraud and a long history of prescription drug addiction,

1245
01:05:34.440 --> 01:05:37.960
including five years in a methadone program. She and Ryan

1246
01:05:38.079 --> 01:05:41.199
had been corresponding for about twelve days when she claimed

1247
01:05:41.400 --> 01:05:43.400
he called her in the middle of the night, drunk

1248
01:05:43.480 --> 01:05:46.800
and crying and confessing I did it. I killed Sarah.

1249
01:05:47.360 --> 01:05:50.960
Under cross examination, Crewe admitted to being treated for bipolar

1250
01:05:51.039 --> 01:05:54.559
disorder and depression, and acknowledged that she had sent Ryan

1251
01:05:54.599 --> 01:05:58.639
a photo of a friend rather than herself. Investigators found

1252
01:05:58.840 --> 01:06:02.199
no phone records support arding the alleged late night phone call.

1253
01:06:02.599 --> 01:06:05.800
A pathologist who had testified at the previous trials was

1254
01:06:05.920 --> 01:06:08.920
called again as a witness for the prosecution. He said

1255
01:06:08.960 --> 01:06:12.480
that injuries can be incurred during resuscitation that can look

1256
01:06:12.639 --> 01:06:17.159
like inflicted injuries, but also an epileptic seizure could also

1257
01:06:17.400 --> 01:06:21.559
produce a neck hemorrhage because of neck jerking. He also

1258
01:06:21.679 --> 01:06:25.159
reinforced the idea that the coroner hadn't ruled out cardiac,

1259
01:06:25.480 --> 01:06:30.400
neurological or narcolepsy in his autopsy. After eight days of

1260
01:06:30.519 --> 01:06:33.880
prosecution witnesses, the defense took over on February seventh. The

1261
01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:37.440
defense had the usual periode of Ryan's steadfast character witnesses.

1262
01:06:37.760 --> 01:06:41.280
The defense offered up a gruesome but effective experiment using

1263
01:06:41.400 --> 01:06:44.719
pig brains to prove that the coroner hadn't adequately studied

1264
01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:48.760
Sarah's brain. For brain tissue to be analyzed properly, the

1265
01:06:48.840 --> 01:06:51.519
brain needs to be set and preservative for a couple

1266
01:06:51.599 --> 01:06:55.599
of weeks. Unfixed brain tissue had the consistency of warm jello,

1267
01:06:55.960 --> 01:06:58.840
so it can't be sectioned and studied. Once the brain

1268
01:06:58.960 --> 01:07:02.280
is cut into, it be fixed, so the second autopsy

1269
01:07:02.400 --> 01:07:05.320
wasn't able to do the thorough brain examination that was

1270
01:07:05.440 --> 01:07:09.039
needed in this case. Fixed brain tissue has the consistency

1271
01:07:09.079 --> 01:07:11.239
of velveta cheese. In case you were.

1272
01:07:13.159 --> 01:07:15.880
For putting that visual surprise there.

1273
01:07:16.679 --> 01:07:20.760
The defense also raised Anderson Taowill syndrome. A rare form

1274
01:07:20.880 --> 01:07:24.800
of long QT syndrome that can be congenital or developed

1275
01:07:24.880 --> 01:07:28.960
later in life. The condition can cause abnormal heart rhythms, fainting,

1276
01:07:29.280 --> 01:07:33.519
temporary paralysis, and is associated with an increased risk of

1277
01:07:33.639 --> 01:07:37.599
sudden death and drowning. It is often undiagnosed unless detected

1278
01:07:37.639 --> 01:07:40.880
by an EKG. Some physical traits have been linked to

1279
01:07:40.960 --> 01:07:45.199
the syndrome, including cleft palate and certain facial features which

1280
01:07:45.320 --> 01:07:47.880
I believe Sarah had. There's a one picture that I'll

1281
01:07:47.960 --> 01:07:51.199
post that there's a certain curvature that people with this

1282
01:07:51.320 --> 01:07:53.639
syndrome have to their face that it looks like Sarah

1283
01:07:53.679 --> 01:07:55.960
could have had. Interesting At the end of the trial,

1284
01:07:56.039 --> 01:07:59.760
the prosecution approached the judge to add involuntary manslaughter as

1285
01:07:59.760 --> 01:08:03.159
a possible charge, and the judge agreed. Did the prosecution

1286
01:08:03.440 --> 01:08:05.880
question whether they had made their case or were they

1287
01:08:06.079 --> 01:08:07.599
just covering themselves.

1288
01:08:07.320 --> 01:08:09.079
Based on the fact that they tried to get him

1289
01:08:09.079 --> 01:08:11.239
to take a plea deal also makes me think they

1290
01:08:11.280 --> 01:08:12.639
are questioning their case.

1291
01:08:12.880 --> 01:08:15.639
The defense once again chose not to have Ryan testify.

1292
01:08:16.039 --> 01:08:18.640
There was little new evidence in the third trial aside

1293
01:08:18.640 --> 01:08:21.960
from the testimony of Jennifer Crew, but her credibility was

1294
01:08:22.000 --> 01:08:25.159
sharply questioned, I'm actually kind of surprised with all the

1295
01:08:25.279 --> 01:08:27.800
issues that she had that they allowed her to testify.

1296
01:08:27.960 --> 01:08:28.159
Yeah.

1297
01:08:28.520 --> 01:08:32.159
In closing arguments, the defense highlighted that Jennifer had used

1298
01:08:32.319 --> 01:08:36.239
six different last names, she had four convictions for crimes

1299
01:08:36.279 --> 01:08:39.760
of dishonesty, and struggled with years of substance abuse, including

1300
01:08:39.920 --> 01:08:44.239
a five year addiction to OxyContin and three years on methadone.

1301
01:08:44.479 --> 01:08:47.560
They argued her background made her an unreliable witness.

1302
01:08:47.760 --> 01:08:50.600
Yeah, seems like the prosecution was kind of reaching a

1303
01:08:50.640 --> 01:08:51.000
little bit.

1304
01:08:51.720 --> 01:08:55.479
After roughly twelve hours of deliberation, far shorter than expected,

1305
01:08:55.520 --> 01:08:58.960
the jury returned with a verdict. Ryan's supporters filled the courtroom,

1306
01:08:59.199 --> 01:09:02.359
though his mother was he notably absent. The jury found

1307
01:09:02.479 --> 01:09:06.479
Ryan guilty of murder, the more serious charge. Asked if

1308
01:09:06.520 --> 01:09:09.119
he wished to speak, Ryan maintained his innocence, saying his

1309
01:09:09.279 --> 01:09:11.840
life had been destroyed, that he loved Sarah and would

1310
01:09:11.920 --> 01:09:14.600
never harm her, and that after more than two years,

1311
01:09:14.800 --> 01:09:17.760
he still only wanted answers about what happened to her.

1312
01:09:18.159 --> 01:09:21.039
He described the emotional and financial toll of the case

1313
01:09:21.199 --> 01:09:25.439
before saying simply, this is just not right. Outside the

1314
01:09:25.520 --> 01:09:29.399
courtroom was the biggest bombshell get I'm shocked that they

1315
01:09:29.439 --> 01:09:32.720
were able to keep this a secret. Kim Ryan's stepmom

1316
01:09:32.960 --> 01:09:37.359
was holding a baby, a baby named Ryan Widmer. Ryan

1317
01:09:37.399 --> 01:09:40.840
had met Sarah, a different Sarah in September two thousand

1318
01:09:40.840 --> 01:09:43.279
and nine. She had written to him after the Dateline

1319
01:09:43.319 --> 01:09:47.199
episode aired and they started an online relationship, but they

1320
01:09:47.279 --> 01:09:50.800
met in late October and Sarah became pregnant. The baby

1321
01:09:50.880 --> 01:09:53.479
was born in the summer of twenty ten. The jury

1322
01:09:53.720 --> 01:09:55.840
never knew about Sarah number two and Ryan.

1323
01:09:56.239 --> 01:09:58.159
I mean, I don't think it's relevant to the case

1324
01:09:58.199 --> 01:09:59.920
at all, but it is interesting.

1325
01:10:00.279 --> 01:10:02.560
Some jury members spoke to the media after the verdict

1326
01:10:02.680 --> 01:10:05.439
was read. One called Ryan a punk and the jury

1327
01:10:05.479 --> 01:10:07.960
could tell he was guilty just by looking at him.

1328
01:10:08.039 --> 01:10:10.319
That's how you should be making your judgments as a juror.

1329
01:10:10.600 --> 01:10:13.640
Another juror said that they thought Ryan had snapped, which

1330
01:10:13.840 --> 01:10:16.600
a had never been introduced as evidence or a theory

1331
01:10:16.680 --> 01:10:20.680
by the prosecution, and B If they thought that Ryan snapped,

1332
01:10:21.039 --> 01:10:25.760
that's what the involuntary Exactly, yeah, exactly. Another juror said

1333
01:10:25.840 --> 01:10:28.920
the evidence did not prove him innocent. Were they even

1334
01:10:29.000 --> 01:10:32.079
paying attention? It's innocent until proven empty.

1335
01:10:32.760 --> 01:10:33.520
People should know that.

1336
01:10:34.079 --> 01:10:37.000
Another juror said they were bothered that Ryan didn't testify,

1337
01:10:37.119 --> 01:10:40.640
despite the judge giving them specific instructions not to hold

1338
01:10:40.680 --> 01:10:43.600
that against him. These are all like his rights.

1339
01:10:43.840 --> 01:10:44.039
Yeah.

1340
01:10:44.479 --> 01:10:47.680
In a poll by the Cincinnati Inquirer, fifty three percent

1341
01:10:47.760 --> 01:10:49.760
of the reader said that the jury got it wrong.

1342
01:10:50.359 --> 01:10:52.880
I'm surprised that it's not higher than that. Before the

1343
01:10:52.960 --> 01:10:57.119
trial ian ended, a juror's friend contacted Ryan's defense team

1344
01:10:57.239 --> 01:10:59.960
and said that the juror said that the jury had

1345
01:11:00.199 --> 01:11:03.600
already made up its mind. Again, this is before they

1346
01:11:03.680 --> 01:11:06.720
were deliberating that Ryan was going to quote burn in Hell.

1347
01:11:07.359 --> 01:11:10.640
Another juror later spoke on a radio show and falsely

1348
01:11:10.760 --> 01:11:14.640
stated that the coroner had ruled out narcolepsy, despite testimony

1349
01:11:14.760 --> 01:11:17.960
that he did not know how to assess it. Additional

1350
01:11:18.079 --> 01:11:21.159
reports of jura misconduct led to a hearing on whether

1351
01:11:21.279 --> 01:11:24.840
a new trial was warranted, but the judge ultimately denied

1352
01:11:24.880 --> 01:11:29.359
the motion. Wow yeah so Datelin replayed an updated version

1353
01:11:29.439 --> 01:11:33.079
of Ryan's episode, now including an interview with the new Sarah.

1354
01:11:33.399 --> 01:11:37.359
Public opinion soured after this airing. Ryan came off as angry.

1355
01:11:37.560 --> 01:11:39.680
He called Sarah's mom a liar and claimed that the

1356
01:11:39.760 --> 01:11:44.359
paramedics and police were conspiring against him. Ryan's mom, Jill,

1357
01:11:44.520 --> 01:11:47.119
was struggling and she was embarrassed and angry that Ryan

1358
01:11:47.159 --> 01:11:50.159
had gotten involved with another woman and had had a baby.

1359
01:11:50.640 --> 01:11:52.800
She wrote on Facebook that the new Sarah was a

1360
01:11:52.920 --> 01:11:56.600
user and Ryan was in jail where he belonged WOW.

1361
01:11:57.199 --> 01:12:00.399
The day after the verdict, and investigation was launched into

1362
01:12:00.560 --> 01:12:04.119
Lieutenant Jeff Brayley, the lead investigator in the Whidmer case,

1363
01:12:04.279 --> 01:12:08.840
over credibility issues tied to his HR file. Although Braley

1364
01:12:09.000 --> 01:12:12.840
claimed the records were falsified, investigators determined he had been

1365
01:12:12.920 --> 01:12:17.199
dishonest about his prior employment, and he resigned before facing discipline.

1366
01:12:17.720 --> 01:12:21.239
His credibility was later further damaged in a federal civil

1367
01:12:21.319 --> 01:12:24.760
case involving an unlawful police raid, where Brayley and other

1368
01:12:24.840 --> 01:12:29.279
officers were found liable for numerous civil rights violations. This

1369
01:12:29.600 --> 01:12:33.760
history provides important contact for Brayley's role in the Whitmer investigation,

1370
01:12:34.239 --> 01:12:38.760
raising concerns about his judgment and conduct. In July twenty thirteen,

1371
01:12:38.920 --> 01:12:42.159
Ryan's brother discovered their mother, Jill fifty five, deceased in

1372
01:12:42.239 --> 01:12:45.359
her home, where she had been for several days. Ryan

1373
01:12:45.479 --> 01:12:47.720
wanted to attend her funeral, but the family could not

1374
01:12:47.800 --> 01:12:50.720
afford the cost of the security that was required for

1375
01:12:50.840 --> 01:12:51.560
him to be present.

1376
01:12:51.880 --> 01:12:54.159
That's very sad. You may have said it already, but

1377
01:12:54.239 --> 01:12:55.800
what was Ryan sentenced to.

1378
01:12:56.159 --> 01:12:58.199
I don't think I said it. He was sentenced to

1379
01:12:58.319 --> 01:13:02.359
fifteen years to life. In a prison interview with author

1380
01:13:02.760 --> 01:13:06.800
Janice Hissel, who wrote Submerged, Ryan Whidmer, His Drowned Bride

1381
01:13:06.840 --> 01:13:09.399
and the Justice System, which I read for this case,

1382
01:13:09.479 --> 01:13:12.600
and it's an excellent book, Ryan described the knight Sarah died,

1383
01:13:12.680 --> 01:13:15.399
saying she went upstairs to take a bath around ten pm.

1384
01:13:15.760 --> 01:13:18.159
She kissed him and said I love you, and walked

1385
01:13:18.159 --> 01:13:22.479
away on her tiptoes, something she did occasionally. Hissel later

1386
01:13:22.600 --> 01:13:27.000
found research linking toe walking to seizures, a connection Ryan

1387
01:13:27.159 --> 01:13:30.279
had noted early on in his case, but which was

1388
01:13:30.399 --> 01:13:34.279
never pursued. A friend also called recalled Sarah walking on

1389
01:13:34.359 --> 01:13:38.840
her tiptoes. In conclusion. The Stewards have never publicly spoken

1390
01:13:38.880 --> 01:13:41.600
out about the case. Ruth Ann moved out of state

1391
01:13:41.640 --> 01:13:44.239
to be closer to her son. Ryan and the new

1392
01:13:44.319 --> 01:13:47.119
Sarah broke up, but he still sees his son sometimes

1393
01:13:47.199 --> 01:13:50.800
in prison. Ryan's attorneys are now fighting for the release

1394
01:13:50.880 --> 01:13:53.720
of Sarah's DNA so it can be tested for long

1395
01:13:53.840 --> 01:13:57.760
QT syndrome. The state has possession of Sarah's DNA and

1396
01:13:57.840 --> 01:14:01.000
it's unlikely they'll ever release it. Her position is that

1397
01:14:01.159 --> 01:14:05.079
if Sarah's DNA tests positive for long QT syndrome, her

1398
01:14:05.159 --> 01:14:09.239
death could still possibly be a homicide. The Free Ryan

1399
01:14:09.359 --> 01:14:13.239
Widmer Facebook page is still active with about six thousand members,

1400
01:14:13.600 --> 01:14:15.520
but it took quite a hit. Remember he had, like,

1401
01:14:15.840 --> 01:14:18.960
you know, over one hundred thousand followers. Twice a year,

1402
01:14:19.039 --> 01:14:21.159
his supporters raise funds for him so he can buy

1403
01:14:21.199 --> 01:14:25.680
special food items. Ryan enjoys pop Tarts and Skyline Shelly.

1404
01:14:27.399 --> 01:14:29.920
Ryan has lots of regular visitors in prison and trice

1405
01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:32.479
his best to stay positive. He has worked as a

1406
01:14:32.640 --> 01:14:35.880
teacher's aide, a law library clerk, and also works with

1407
01:14:36.000 --> 01:14:39.680
foster dogs. Ryan will first be eligible for parole in

1408
01:14:39.840 --> 01:14:44.159
twenty twenty five, and that hearing took place this July

1409
01:14:44.479 --> 01:14:47.680
and he was denied parole. So I wrote this before

1410
01:14:47.840 --> 01:14:50.479
we used to include the rest and peace segment. But

1411
01:14:50.720 --> 01:14:53.239
rest in peace Sarah. She seemed she was a beautiful

1412
01:14:53.279 --> 01:14:55.520
young woman who had you know, a whole life ahead

1413
01:14:55.520 --> 01:14:55.720
of her.

1414
01:14:55.840 --> 01:14:57.319
Yes, much much too young.

1415
01:14:57.479 --> 01:14:59.920
Yeah, very sad. Story. So what do you think?

1416
01:15:00.720 --> 01:15:05.199
I think Ryan was unjustly convicted. I really don't see it.

1417
01:15:05.399 --> 01:15:08.720
I don't see the evidence there. At the very least,

1418
01:15:08.760 --> 01:15:12.520
there's reasonable doubt. But I think based on what I've heard,

1419
01:15:13.039 --> 01:15:14.479
he seems completely innocent to me.

1420
01:15:14.840 --> 01:15:16.600
That's what I think too, and that's why this case

1421
01:15:16.680 --> 01:15:18.720
is stuck with me. And there has been, as far

1422
01:15:18.800 --> 01:15:21.800
as I can tell, no movement with the Innocence Project

1423
01:15:21.960 --> 01:15:25.439
or any other Do you what do you think Sarah's

1424
01:15:25.439 --> 01:15:26.199
cause of death was.

1425
01:15:26.920 --> 01:15:28.439
I mean, I don't know, but I think it's some

1426
01:15:28.600 --> 01:15:31.880
kind of unexplained medical event just based on her history.

1427
01:15:31.960 --> 01:15:34.159
It seems like there was so much there, with her

1428
01:15:34.279 --> 01:15:38.800
constantly falling asleep or headaches her childhood, you know, heart murmur,

1429
01:15:39.279 --> 01:15:42.119
There's so many things there. And you mentioned it early

1430
01:15:42.199 --> 01:15:44.600
on in the case about how many people die every

1431
01:15:44.680 --> 01:15:48.039
year from unexplained causes that are not you know, they

1432
01:15:48.119 --> 01:15:50.920
can't figure out even after an autopsy, And it just

1433
01:15:50.960 --> 01:15:54.000
seems like that is the most likely scenario, just based

1434
01:15:54.039 --> 01:15:57.039
on everything. How she wasn't feeling well that day. So

1435
01:15:57.880 --> 01:15:59.840
there's so much reasonable doubt in my mind.

1436
01:16:00.359 --> 01:16:02.560
Yeah, I definitely think that there is reasonable doubt. The

1437
01:16:02.640 --> 01:16:05.800
thing that I cannot wrap my head around is motive.

1438
01:16:06.159 --> 01:16:08.119
And it's unfair because I say this a lot, like

1439
01:16:08.159 --> 01:16:10.199
the most dangerous men to me are like the men

1440
01:16:10.319 --> 01:16:13.600
with like Chris Watts, who has never been violent in

1441
01:16:13.720 --> 01:16:15.720
his life. And we did say that Ryan was a

1442
01:16:15.800 --> 01:16:17.920
really nice guy, that he was well liked, he had

1443
01:16:17.960 --> 01:16:20.800
never been violent to Sarah or anyone else in his life.

1444
01:16:21.000 --> 01:16:23.479
But in this case, I don't see a motive at all.

1445
01:16:23.520 --> 01:16:25.560
They were married for I think it was one hundred

1446
01:16:25.600 --> 01:16:29.319
and fourteen days. There's just there is no motive unless

1447
01:16:29.560 --> 01:16:33.000
you know, you want to believe he snapped, but I.

1448
01:16:33.520 --> 01:16:35.840
Just don't know evidence to show that, right. It really

1449
01:16:35.880 --> 01:16:38.199
bothers me too that her mom, you know, went from

1450
01:16:38.600 --> 01:16:41.119
early on like yeah, you know, they seem like they

1451
01:16:41.199 --> 01:16:43.720
were perfectly happy together, and then in trial number two

1452
01:16:43.720 --> 01:16:45.720
while they argued a lot, and then trial number three,

1453
01:16:46.079 --> 01:16:49.279
well they hated each other. Just I really that bothers me.

1454
01:16:49.479 --> 01:16:52.399
I'm not defending her, but I can understand that trajectory

1455
01:16:52.439 --> 01:16:54.720
to a certain point, like she just wanted to know

1456
01:16:54.960 --> 01:16:57.760
why her daughter isn't here anymore, and it you know,

1457
01:16:58.520 --> 01:17:00.640
she was just looking for for any and I think

1458
01:17:00.720 --> 01:17:02.720
she just came to the conclusion that he was guilty.

1459
01:17:03.079 --> 01:17:04.960
She wanted him to pay for the crime, and she

1460
01:17:05.079 --> 01:17:08.199
probably just searches her brain every night, like what happened,

1461
01:17:08.399 --> 01:17:11.920
you know, and she just finds these little tidbits of yeah,

1462
01:17:12.079 --> 01:17:14.359
you know, they did argue sometimes.

1463
01:17:14.079 --> 01:17:15.520
Or what every couple does.

1464
01:17:15.800 --> 01:17:19.359
So I still have like a lot of questions about

1465
01:17:19.439 --> 01:17:22.760
Sarah's health, especially like, you know, did she not sleep

1466
01:17:22.840 --> 01:17:24.880
well at night? Did she have sleep apnea? Was that

1467
01:17:24.960 --> 01:17:25.399
way she was?

1468
01:17:25.479 --> 01:17:25.520
So?

1469
01:17:26.039 --> 01:17:27.960
Why was she so tired all the time.

1470
01:17:28.119 --> 01:17:30.439
Yeah, I wish she had talked to her doctor about

1471
01:17:30.479 --> 01:17:33.600
it and gotten some kind of diagnosis, but obviously that

1472
01:17:33.680 --> 01:17:34.199
didn't happen.

1473
01:17:34.520 --> 01:17:37.640
So what is a relative term? And it's used so

1474
01:17:37.800 --> 01:17:40.000
much in this case and a lot of the jurors

1475
01:17:40.079 --> 01:17:43.880
were impacted by that that there wasn't the crime scene

1476
01:17:44.000 --> 01:17:46.920
wasn't wed enough, and we just don't know, like you

1477
01:17:47.039 --> 01:17:51.640
had pointed out astuteley that he drained the bathtub. It's summer,

1478
01:17:52.079 --> 01:17:55.079
and I feel like a lot of the water would

1479
01:17:55.079 --> 01:17:56.279
have evaporated quickly.

1480
01:17:56.640 --> 01:17:59.800
Yeah, I just think there's nothing strong enough there to

1481
01:18:00.079 --> 01:18:03.039
make a conviction. It's just too many variables involved.

1482
01:18:03.199 --> 01:18:05.279
We don't know what the carpet was like, we don't know,

1483
01:18:05.479 --> 01:18:08.159
you know, how thick the bathroom rug was. Well, and

1484
01:18:08.640 --> 01:18:11.479
remember though that the carpet tile or they cut out

1485
01:18:11.520 --> 01:18:15.520
some of the carpet and it was so wet that is. Yeah,

1486
01:18:15.960 --> 01:18:20.079
depending on who was testifying, Sarah's hair was some degree

1487
01:18:20.159 --> 01:18:21.680
of data or wet.

1488
01:18:22.039 --> 01:18:22.239
Yeah.

1489
01:18:22.479 --> 01:18:24.680
Yeah, And we don't know how thick her hair was.

1490
01:18:25.119 --> 01:18:28.560
Like your hair dries in minutes, right, oh yeah, my hair,

1491
01:18:28.840 --> 01:18:32.439
I mean it takes hours for your hair. Sometimes it

1492
01:18:32.520 --> 01:18:34.439
takes a long time. So we just we don't know

1493
01:18:34.479 --> 01:18:37.319
how thick her hair was. I think Sarah was rather

1494
01:18:37.439 --> 01:18:40.560
petite and Ryan was six foot two and he weighed

1495
01:18:40.640 --> 01:18:43.920
at least one hundred pounds more than Sarah. And I

1496
01:18:44.000 --> 01:18:45.359
feel like if he would have killed her in a

1497
01:18:45.399 --> 01:18:48.000
fit of rage, there would have been more bruises. There

1498
01:18:48.079 --> 01:18:50.760
was no bruises on him, bruises other than the ones

1499
01:18:50.800 --> 01:18:53.840
that I think could be explained by the CPR attempts.

1500
01:18:53.920 --> 01:18:55.960
Yeah, And I would think the bathroom would be, you know,

1501
01:18:56.239 --> 01:18:58.479
just kind of demolished. If there was a fight like

1502
01:18:58.560 --> 01:19:00.680
that in the bathroom and killed her in a fit

1503
01:19:00.720 --> 01:19:02.279
of rage, I would think there would be damage.

1504
01:19:02.640 --> 01:19:04.600
I think one thing that I have not mentioned is

1505
01:19:04.680 --> 01:19:08.039
shampoo bottles and soap and conditioner. I think they had

1506
01:19:08.119 --> 01:19:10.920
been knocked off of the bathroom, like off of the

1507
01:19:11.239 --> 01:19:13.600
edge of the tub, Okay, and that was pointed to

1508
01:19:14.159 --> 01:19:16.560
by prosecutors as evidence of a struggle.

1509
01:19:16.760 --> 01:19:18.720
Oh but that could also happen if you were trying

1510
01:19:18.760 --> 01:19:20.680
to take her body out of the tubs.

1511
01:19:20.840 --> 01:19:23.680
Yeah, so I think any of this evidence can be

1512
01:19:23.800 --> 01:19:24.720
explained away.

1513
01:19:25.039 --> 01:19:25.359
I don't know.

1514
01:19:25.399 --> 01:19:27.600
I'm curious what our listeners think. Let us know what

1515
01:19:27.680 --> 01:19:29.720
you think about this case, and how do you think

1516
01:19:29.800 --> 01:19:33.800
that Tina from the past did on this case.

1517
01:19:34.399 --> 01:19:37.199
I think you did great. I think it's really well

1518
01:19:37.279 --> 01:19:39.680
researched and well written. I was looking back at the

1519
01:19:39.760 --> 01:19:42.880
script that I'm working out for the next episode, which

1520
01:19:42.960 --> 01:19:44.840
was our very first case. Is what I'm going to

1521
01:19:44.880 --> 01:19:47.079
be doing, and it's pretty batt well.

1522
01:19:47.119 --> 01:19:49.840
It was a very first case too, though this one.

1523
01:19:50.079 --> 01:19:51.479
Not sure when I did. I think it was pretty

1524
01:19:51.479 --> 01:19:53.399
early on. It was in the first year, but I

1525
01:19:53.479 --> 01:19:55.920
don't know. But yeah, I think I did a pretty

1526
01:19:55.960 --> 01:19:56.479
okay job.

1527
01:19:56.560 --> 01:19:57.880
I think you did too. I wanted to say one

1528
01:19:57.960 --> 01:20:00.640
other thing real quick. This reminds me a little bit,

1529
01:20:01.199 --> 01:20:03.960
just a little bit of another case from Ohio, the

1530
01:20:04.079 --> 01:20:07.520
Matthew Moore and Emily Noble case where she it seemed

1531
01:20:07.560 --> 01:20:09.680
like she died by suicide, but it seemed like the

1532
01:20:09.760 --> 01:20:12.079
police really wanted it to be a murder. And I

1533
01:20:12.159 --> 01:20:15.119
feel sort of the same in this situation that this mad.

1534
01:20:15.279 --> 01:20:17.520
This is probably a reach, but you know, these kind

1535
01:20:17.560 --> 01:20:19.439
of small town cops, it it's going to be much

1536
01:20:19.479 --> 01:20:22.960
more interesting to investigate a murder than to declare it

1537
01:20:23.319 --> 01:20:25.760
undetermined or not. You can't make an arrest or you

1538
01:20:25.840 --> 01:20:28.359
can't know what happened, and it just feels like they

1539
01:20:28.439 --> 01:20:29.920
really rushed to judgment.

1540
01:20:30.159 --> 01:20:30.520
They did.

1541
01:20:30.760 --> 01:20:33.960
Ryan never sat down for a formal interview. Yeah, that

1542
01:20:34.199 --> 01:20:35.119
has always bothered me.

1543
01:20:35.399 --> 01:20:38.119
Yeah, and they never even asked him, right, No, they.

1544
01:20:38.199 --> 01:20:41.079
Just arrested him. Well, that is a story of Sarah

1545
01:20:41.119 --> 01:20:41.960
and Ryan Widmore.

1546
01:20:42.359 --> 01:20:44.199
A lot of it came back to me after hearing

1547
01:20:44.239 --> 01:20:46.800
it again, and really really interesting story.

1548
01:20:47.039 --> 01:20:49.840
Yeah, it really makes me mad all over again. Yeah,

1549
01:20:50.319 --> 01:20:53.079
but maybe I you feel differently. Let us know what

1550
01:20:53.159 --> 01:20:53.439
you think.

1551
01:20:53.520 --> 01:20:54.760
Yeah, we would love to hear what you think.

1552
01:20:56.680 --> 01:21:03.800
Bringing hear that sound.

1553
01:21:06.399 --> 01:21:08.720
Well, that was a lot. That was originally a two

1554
01:21:08.800 --> 01:21:12.800
part episode, and I made it a slightly more concise

1555
01:21:12.840 --> 01:21:15.159
at the end. But I'm sorry if I went too

1556
01:21:15.239 --> 01:21:17.600
deep in on the trial information. I felt like that

1557
01:21:17.680 --> 01:21:18.800
went on for a little bit, but.

1558
01:21:19.039 --> 01:21:20.239
Yeah, it was still interesting though.

1559
01:21:20.239 --> 01:21:22.600
I thought, Yeah, so, how are you going to spend

1560
01:21:22.680 --> 01:21:25.399
the rest of your Saturday in December?

1561
01:21:25.640 --> 01:21:28.880
I am going to go Christmas shopping for you someone.

1562
01:21:28.960 --> 01:21:32.640
I love you, honest to goodness. You really don't have to, Okay,

1563
01:21:32.680 --> 01:21:35.560
Actually seriously, I was like, I would really love to

1564
01:21:35.680 --> 01:21:38.960
just like walk around and look at some Christmas lights

1565
01:21:38.960 --> 01:21:41.079
and maybe go out to dinner. And I promise you

1566
01:21:41.159 --> 01:21:43.479
I don't need anything else. I have everything I need

1567
01:21:44.079 --> 01:21:46.279
to get you. I didn't get you a tie. Yeah,

1568
01:21:46.279 --> 01:21:48.840
I didn't get you a ton, So that's fine. Oh,

1569
01:21:48.920 --> 01:21:50.760
do you want to talk about the really stupid beat

1570
01:21:50.800 --> 01:21:54.119
we had the other day, the one that I won? Yeah, yeah,

1571
01:21:54.119 --> 01:21:55.239
apparently you did.

1572
01:21:55.520 --> 01:21:57.319
We will beat on the dumbest thing too.

1573
01:21:57.680 --> 01:21:58.680
This was one of the dumbest.

1574
01:21:58.760 --> 01:22:01.199
Though it was it would I would say it was

1575
01:22:01.279 --> 01:22:04.039
dumb except for the fact that I won. It wasn't

1576
01:22:04.039 --> 01:22:04.359
really that.

1577
01:22:05.680 --> 01:22:08.560
Well, well, we can tell the listeners. It probably a

1578
01:22:08.680 --> 01:22:11.520
week ago, and we looked at the extended forecast and

1579
01:22:11.560 --> 01:22:13.600
we've gotten a fair bit of snow. We probably have

1580
01:22:13.680 --> 01:22:15.159
had eight inches on the ground.

1581
01:22:15.720 --> 01:22:18.439
Our lawn was covered in snow a fair amount.

1582
01:22:18.159 --> 01:22:20.600
Of Stowe, and it had been really chilly and it

1583
01:22:20.720 --> 01:22:24.199
wasn't melting right and that it had been iced on,

1584
01:22:24.479 --> 01:22:27.000
so the snow was like it was hearty snow like

1585
01:22:27.239 --> 01:22:30.960
sod was not going anywhere. So I made the comment, Yeah,

1586
01:22:31.000 --> 01:22:32.560
I think the snow is going to stick around for

1587
01:22:32.600 --> 01:22:34.760
a Christmas. We're not going to get any additional snow,

1588
01:22:35.439 --> 01:22:37.760
but we're going to have a white Christmas.

1589
01:22:38.520 --> 01:22:40.920
And you said, I said, no, the snow will be

1590
01:22:41.000 --> 01:22:42.359
gone by end of day.

1591
01:22:42.279 --> 01:22:45.279
Thursday, and I said, oh, I don't think so, it's

1592
01:22:45.359 --> 01:22:46.119
not going to happen.

1593
01:22:46.399 --> 01:22:49.359
So for like three days we were talking about this.

1594
01:22:49.840 --> 01:22:52.600
Well the deal was though, because there is still snow

1595
01:22:52.640 --> 01:22:54.840
out there. It's funny because a lot of people you

1596
01:22:54.880 --> 01:22:57.119
don't have snow, so you don't know how where it goes.

1597
01:22:57.319 --> 01:23:00.159
When you have to shovel your dryways and you ow

1598
01:23:00.239 --> 01:23:03.880
your roads, you get these huge like snow drifts, snow

1599
01:23:04.000 --> 01:23:07.079
drifts whatever mountains of snow really, especially in like a

1600
01:23:07.199 --> 01:23:10.199
parking lot, it's it's a huge mountain and it takes

1601
01:23:10.239 --> 01:23:12.760
a long time for a to melt so on the

1602
01:23:12.920 --> 01:23:16.399
curbs and you're the edges of your driveway. There's still,

1603
01:23:16.600 --> 01:23:19.039
you know, some pretty significant snow drifts. But I believe

1604
01:23:19.119 --> 01:23:21.600
we had said the snow. The bout was the snow

1605
01:23:21.800 --> 01:23:24.000
will be ninety percent gone right.

1606
01:23:23.920 --> 01:23:25.720
From the law. You'll be able to see like ninety

1607
01:23:25.760 --> 01:23:28.359
percent of the long And what did we bet? Well,

1608
01:23:28.600 --> 01:23:30.760
since you know what's yours is mine and what's mine

1609
01:23:30.840 --> 01:23:34.119
is yours, betting money or material things, isn't that exciting?

1610
01:23:34.279 --> 01:23:36.479
So the that was the winner? Got to be smug

1611
01:23:36.600 --> 01:23:37.039
for a day.

1612
01:23:37.359 --> 01:23:41.800
Yeah, And I'll be honest, you're smug every day, but

1613
01:23:42.680 --> 01:23:46.399
new words especially, you really haven't been extra smugs.

1614
01:23:46.439 --> 01:23:47.600
Yeah, it fl like I kind of missed.

1615
01:23:47.720 --> 01:23:49.880
Yeah, you, I'll give you a couple hours of smugness

1616
01:23:49.960 --> 01:23:50.319
for sure.

1617
01:23:50.800 --> 01:23:51.000
Great.

1618
01:23:51.159 --> 01:23:53.960
Yeah, because that's you know, a sign of great intelligence

1619
01:23:54.199 --> 01:23:56.760
to be able to predict the weather.

1620
01:23:57.039 --> 01:24:00.199
And you know you think of as the meat you're

1621
01:24:00.199 --> 01:24:01.159
all just in the family.

1622
01:24:01.239 --> 01:24:03.159
But yeah, I'm really whifted this one.

1623
01:24:03.279 --> 01:24:04.239
Yeah, you really wift it.

1624
01:24:06.039 --> 01:24:08.159
Well, all this to say that we're going to have

1625
01:24:08.199 --> 01:24:09.880
a green Christmas and I'm a little bombed. I think

1626
01:24:09.880 --> 01:24:12.000
it's going to be fifty degrees on Christmas Day. It

1627
01:24:12.640 --> 01:24:14.239
nice to take a walk and get out and get

1628
01:24:14.279 --> 01:24:17.000
some fresh air. Between all the cookies and other stuff

1629
01:24:17.000 --> 01:24:18.880
we're going to eat. Yeah, it is a little bit

1630
01:24:18.920 --> 01:24:19.439
of a bomber.

1631
01:24:19.600 --> 01:24:21.479
Yeah, it is nice to have a white Christmas.

1632
01:24:22.119 --> 01:24:24.720
Well, we wish all of you a very merry Christmas.

1633
01:24:24.840 --> 01:24:27.119
If you don't celebrate Christmas, we hope that you have

1634
01:24:27.479 --> 01:24:28.479
a RESTful week.

1635
01:24:28.640 --> 01:24:30.640
Yeah, we hope you all enjoy your time with your

1636
01:24:30.760 --> 01:24:33.439
loved ones and your family and friends. It's a great

1637
01:24:33.520 --> 01:24:36.399
time to reflect and recharge, and we hope you have

1638
01:24:36.479 --> 01:24:37.479
a great holiday.

1639
01:24:37.600 --> 01:24:41.880
And we'll be back next Monday with another rewind episode.

1640
01:24:42.039 --> 01:24:44.000
This time it's Rich's turn. But I don't want you

1641
01:24:44.079 --> 01:24:46.159
to change it too much because I'm going to change

1642
01:24:46.720 --> 01:24:49.199
for you. They really didn't change too much of mine.

1643
01:24:49.239 --> 01:24:50.920
I changed a few things on the fly that I

1644
01:24:51.079 --> 01:24:52.239
was like, what were they trying to say?

1645
01:24:52.279 --> 01:24:53.960
Here? Yeah, I'll try to make a light a light

1646
01:24:54.079 --> 01:24:54.319
at it.

1647
01:24:54.600 --> 01:24:57.760
Yeah, this is it. By twenty twenty six, we'll be

1648
01:24:57.920 --> 01:25:00.800
back with new episodes. And I'm actually thinking that I

1649
01:25:00.920 --> 01:25:02.720
am going to branch out a little bit from Love

1650
01:25:02.800 --> 01:25:05.199
Mary kill cases. I think I'm just getting a little,

1651
01:25:05.359 --> 01:25:11.039
you know, tired of husband. Do you have some other

1652
01:25:11.399 --> 01:25:13.359
cases that are true crime cases that you would like

1653
01:25:13.399 --> 01:25:15.319
to hear us cover, let us know, and maybe we'll

1654
01:25:15.359 --> 01:25:19.039
do well. Pepper in a few just true crime cases

1655
01:25:19.079 --> 01:25:19.960
this year. What do you think of that?

1656
01:25:20.119 --> 01:25:21.600
Yeah, it sounds like a great idea.

1657
01:25:21.920 --> 01:25:25.000
Thank you so much for listening. Until next time. Don't

1658
01:25:25.079 --> 01:25:26.760
kill your wife and don't kill your husband.

1659
01:25:28.119 --> 01:25:28.960
He that so.

1660
01:25:41.399 --> 01:26:02.880
Hodge. Something I love this time.

1661
01:26:04.520 --> 01:26:08.399
To go bound, the falling days of here.

1662
01:26:08.720 --> 01:26:15.520
Days since time ses.

1663
01:26:16.760 --> 01:26:22.640
Come around the falling days ahead, don't come around the

1664
01:26:23.079 --> 01:26:24.800
falling days ahead.

1665
01:26:27.600 --> 01:26:27.800
Boa