March 10, 2025

Sandy Murphy and Ted Binion - Part 2

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Ted Binion was Las Vegas royalty—the heir to a casino empire with wealth, power, and a dangerous lifestyle. But when he was found dead in 1998, the city buzzed with speculation. Was it suicide? An accidental overdose? A mob hit? Or something even more sinister?

His girlfriend, Sandy Murphy, was devastated—or was she? While she claimed heartbreak, others saw deception. Was she a grieving lover or a scheming opportunist? And what really happened in Ted’s final hours?

Join us as we unravel the twists, betrayals, and shocking revelations behind the mysterious death of Ted Binion. Was justice served, or did someone get away with murder?

Support us on Patreon

Today’s snacks: UK snack extravaganza part 2 (thanks Samantha!) Jaffa Cakes (Raspberry), Maynard's Liquorice Allsorts, Tesco Crispy Coated Peanuts (BBQ), Galaxy Chocolate Chunk Cookies, and Maynards Bassetts WineGums

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Hi, I'm rich and I'm Tina.

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And if there's one thing we've learned, and over twenty

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years of marriage.

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Some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

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And some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

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Welcome to love, Mary kill.

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Hey, Tina, be rich. How are you today?

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Well?

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Tiny bit under the weather, but I'm going to be okay.

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I will persevere.

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I know you will.

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How are you?

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I'm doing really good today.

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You're looking good. You got a hair I got.

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A fresh haircut. I'm wearing my new Patagonia hoodie that

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you got me yesterday. Spring is around the corner. Yeah,

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I'm feeling pretty good.

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I'm so happy to hear that.

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And I'm going to Berlin in a couple of days

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for my company.

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You're super excited you get to leave me from.

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I'm not excited about that, but I am excited because

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my company is having all everybody there, which is quite

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a few people to Berlin, and they were gonna make

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us have roommates. Yeah that's horrible, but I know, I

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just like don't like that whole idea. But my roommate, Fernando,

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really one of my favorite people at work. He had

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to cancel, so he had something come up at the

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last minute. He can't make it. So I'm like, I

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think I'm gonna get my own room.

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You sound really giddy about this, and I hope Fernando

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is listening.

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Well, I have mixed feelings because I do Fernando is

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great and I was looking forward to.

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You mention that he's a nice guy all the time.

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It's a great guy. But I am looking forward to

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having my own room.

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Oh yeah, that's not fair to have someone try to

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fly internationally and then have to share a room. Yeah,

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when your sleep is all messed up.

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And yeah, yes, I'm also excited because today we get

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to try the rest of the snacks that our listener,

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Samantha sent us from the UK. Yeah, that is super exciting.

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Ran kids were home last night and we tried the

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first set of snacks with them and they all really

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enjoyed them too.

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They did all right, So I've got We've got like

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five snacks left. She sent us so much, it's so nice.

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So we're going to try three different things here. I've

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got this one I'm not excited about. This is Manard's

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licorice all sorts.

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I am not either love it or you hate it.

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Well, How do you don't like liquorice either.

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Do you?

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Well, it depends on the flavor. Is it black licorice?

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I think so, Yeah, I'm not a big fan of it.

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And then we've got Tesco Crispy coated peanuts barbecue flavor,

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which sounds good. And then more Jafa cakes. These are

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raspberry flavs.

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Okay, sounds good.

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Well what did you think of round three of our

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UK Snack Extravaganza.

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Well, you have to work on your pairings because licorice

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and barbecued peanuts.

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And raspberry Jaffa cakes.

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Yeah, those three things don't taste really good together go

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well together. The licorice was interesting. We don't really neither

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of us love black licorice. They were cute, but I

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didn't really love it. The peanuts are delicious, I would

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I would buy.

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Those, yeah, for sure.

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And the jaffa cakes, I like the raspberry better than

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the original flavor we tried yesterday. They were really good.

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Yeah, I like those lots.

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Texture is really fun with those. Yeah, they're kind of pillowy.

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Yeah, sort of. Yeah. You articulated exactly how I felt

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about the sax today as well. So I wanted to

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like the licorice. I tried, Yeah, but yeah, just doesn't.

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Do it for me.

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It's so weird how you either love it or you

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hate it?

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Yeah?

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Will you bring us snacks back from Germany?

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You know, I will try, But this trip is going

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to be like our whole company is there and they

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have us like booked wall to wall. But I'll at

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least be in the airport, so I'll find something in

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the airport.

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It's up on a lot of times on these trips,

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you don't have time to explore.

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This one especially.

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Yeah.

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Should we get back to the case of Ted Binyon.

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Yes?

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Would you like to give us a recap of part one?

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Yes, I've prepared a lovely summary right here. Excellent Ted Binyon,

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part of Las Vegas famous Binyon family, died in September

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nineteen ninety eight of an apparent heroin overdose. He'd struggled

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for quite a bit with that heroin addiction right. The

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initial conclusion by the police was that it was either

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suicide or an accidental overdose. However, Ted's girlfriend, Sandy Murphy,

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was having an affair with Ted's good friend Rick Tavish.

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The two had multiple motives to kill Ted Sandy would

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inherit money and property from Ted's will, and supposedly she

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was about to be taken out of the will. If

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I recall, the home was valued at two million dollars

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a day.

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It's worth about two point two million dollars.

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She was also going to get three hundred thousand dollars

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in cash and whatever luxurious furnishings were in the.

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Home, right and cash and silver whatever he kept in

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the home.

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Rick had access to the twenty four tons of silver

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that Ted had buried in the desert and was caught

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a day and a half after Ted's death digging it up.

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He claimed he was doing it at Ted's behest to

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keep his siblings out of it.

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What a great guy, all right.

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When we left off, Rick had been arrested for grand

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theft after digging up the silver, and Sandy was busy

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documenting all of the possessions in Ted's house that she

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felt she was entitled to. And didn't she say that

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some things had been removed, But you weren't sure if

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she had removed them or Yeah.

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She claimed that things were missing like that there was

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a safe that was empty, but there's just no way

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to know if she took that stuff, or if the

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family took that stuff or who did so. But it

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was just the thing about like she made this video

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where she walked through the house documenting everything, and it

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was the day after Ted's death, where like the day

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before she was inconsolable, crying, sobbing, they had to take

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her to the hospital. And then the next day she's like,

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that's mine, that's mine. You know, this is so she's

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going through a very businesslike and it was just a

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really gross Yeah, it was really shocking kind of to

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see that change that quickly.

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So do you think Rick and Sandy you're going to

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live happily every afternoon?

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Well, I guess we'll find out soon. While the police

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quickly decided that Ted had died of a drug overdose,

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his sister, Becky Binyon Bainen and his brother Jack weren't

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so sure. Becky hadn't liked or trusted Sandy from the beginning.

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She made no secret of her view that Sandy had

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been after Ted's money from the start. Becky claimed that

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she had spoken with Ted several times in the preceding

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weeks and that Ted was done with Sandy. She believed

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that Ted was either about to dump Sandy or had

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already dumped her, and that she and Rick killed him

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before he was able to sign his updated will. She

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pushed for the police to treat Ted's death as a homicide.

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The day after Ted died, Becky called up reporter Jeff German,

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who wrote an article quoting Becky saying that Ted and

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Sandy had been fighting all week. She didn't directly accuse

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Sandy of murder, but the implication was pretty clear. When

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the police showed no signs of treating Ted's death as

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a homicide, Becky hired a private investigator, a guy who

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was a former homicide cop with the Vegas PD. He

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still had relationships within the police department, and they more

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or less stepped aside and let him take over the investigation.

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This was unheard of now. The whispers around town were

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that the investigation was bought and paid for by the

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Binyan family, which was essentially true. The autopsy and toxicology

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results lent credence to the theory that Ted was murdered. While

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the medical examiner concluded that the cause of death was

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an overdose of heroin and xanax. Due to the lethal

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levels of the drugs, in his bloodstream. There were signs

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that something nefarious had happened. First, Binyon's stomach was empty

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except for forty milliliters of gray brown fluid testing identified

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it as a mixture of heroin and xanax. This was

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suspicious for two reasons. First, as we talked about in

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Part one, Ted used heroin by inhaling the smoke or

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chasing the dragon as it's known. He never ingested it

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by eating or drinking it in any way. That would

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be a really strange way, not to mention a wasteful

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way of getting high off of heroin. No heroin was

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found in his lungs. Second, if he had swallowed ninety

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xanax tablets, which was that was the amount that he

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had left, he had gotten one hundred and twenty. He

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gave thirty of them to his drug dealer as partial

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payment for the heroin, and the bottle was found empty.

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But if he had swallowed ninety xanax tablets, there would

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likely be particles of undigested xanax in his stomach, but

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there was none. So the question is how did this

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mix of liquefied heroin and xanax get into his digestive

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tract plus. With all the drugs that Binyon must have ingested,

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it seemed odd that his stomach was nearly empty aside

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from the forty milliliters of fluid. The medical examiner concluded

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that Binyon must have vomited at some point before his death,

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but no vomit was discovered on or around his body.

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The area around his nose and mouth were discolored, leading

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investigators to believe that Binyon's face had been vigorously wiped

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clean after his death. Crime scene investigators noted a quote

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number of dried drops in the carpeting of apparent gastric

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content like fluid. Drops were arranged in a line stopping

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in the area where the body was found. So basically

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what they're saying there is it almost seemed like if

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someone had wiped up vomit or something from his face

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and walked away, that it was like a rag was

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dripping as leading away from the body. Additionally, lividity, which

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is the settling of blood in the body due to

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gravity after death, had been noted on Binyon's right side

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while he was found lying flat on his back. That,

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along with bruises found on his right side and back,

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along with small injuries to his wrists, left knee, and

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chest all suggested to investigators that his body had been

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moved after death. Sandy did claim to have performed CPR

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on him, so that could possibly account for him lying

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on his back, even if he had died while lying

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on his side. The other thing that raised suspicion was

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Binyon's apparent time of death. So remember that paramedics who

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had arrived on the scene shortly after four pm noted

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that rigor mortis had set in on Binyon's jaw. Or

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mortis generally begins in the face around two hours or

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more after death. That, along with the lividity, led investigators

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to believe the time of death had to have been

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two PM at the absolute latest. Eventually, the estimate of

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the time of death would be most probably between nine

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am and noon. So that's troubling because if you recall,

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the gardener saw Sandy's car parked beside the house when

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he arrived at nine thirty am, and then he also

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saw it when he left at one thirty pm. We

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also know that Sandy went to the Binyon gaming office

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around two thirty pm, so that would mean that she

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was likely home at the time when Ted died. Now,

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it is a big house and it's certainly possible that

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she was doing her own thing while Ted was overdosing

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in the den, But the timing doesn't look good for Sandy.

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While the initial manner of death ruling by the Clark

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County Medical Examiner was undetermined, six months after Ted's death,

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this was changed. It was now being considered a homicide.

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In addition to the growing evidence pointing to homicide, Sandy's

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behavior raised suspicions as well. First, there was a video

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that she had her lawyer's shoe while she walked around

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the house documenting Ted's possessions. We've already mentioned how it

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didn't look great her being inconsolable one day and the

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next day claiming her possessions in a very businesslike way,

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But it wasn't just that. In one part of the video,

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Sandy is walking through the kitchen and she can be

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seen surreptitiously scooping up a wineglass from the counter and

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slipping it into her purse.

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00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:34.519
Yeah, doesn't seem suspicious at all.

243
00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:38.919
Maybe, as Sandy later claimed, she was embarrassed because she

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had been drinking and didn't want anyone to know. But

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with the autopsy evidence of heroin and xanax and Ted's stomach,

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00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:49.759
and the thought that there were no particles of undigested heroine,

247
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it might make one wonder whether Sandy or Rick ground

248
00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:56.039
up the drugs and somehow forced Ted to drink the

249
00:11:56.039 --> 00:12:00.200
fatal concoction from a wineglass. So I don't I think

250
00:12:00.200 --> 00:12:02.000
you would force someone to drink something out of a

251
00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:06.399
white like you would pick something that was unbreakable.

252
00:12:06.519 --> 00:12:08.639
Or like a turkey baster or something like that.

253
00:12:08.720 --> 00:12:12.600
Maybe, but what turkey baster? Yeah? There was also Sandy's

254
00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:15.679
overwhelming grief. On the day that Ted died. She was

255
00:12:15.759 --> 00:12:18.799
hyperventilating and so inconsolable that she had to be taken

256
00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:21.279
to the hospital. Was it a bit over the top?

257
00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:21.759
Maybe?

258
00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:24.480
Some of the nurses that treated her claim she was

259
00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:29.440
literally saying boooo boo hoo. They felt that her emotion

260
00:12:29.679 --> 00:12:32.840
was fake. During her interview with police as well, she

261
00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:36.200
was sobbing so hard that she could hardly answer their questions.

262
00:12:36.279 --> 00:12:38.360
We played a little clip from that in part one,

263
00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:41.000
and it was just it did make you wonder, like,

264
00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:44.159
is she does she just want to avoid answering questions here?

265
00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:48.639
So she's just being incoherent and you know, acting so upset.

266
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It sounds to me, it sounded a little a little much.

267
00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:53.720
And it is pretty rare to go to the hospital

268
00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:58.200
because you know, you're overwhelmed by grief. Ted's siblings filed

269
00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:01.240
a claim and probate court part to challenge what Sandy

270
00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:04.080
was entitled to under the terms of his will, but

271
00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:08.080
more importantly, to get her under oath. However, Sandy had

272
00:13:08.200 --> 00:13:12.320
hired lawyer Oscar Goodman, who had represented Ted and also

273
00:13:12.399 --> 00:13:16.480
many of Vegas's most notorious mobsters. Goodman wasn't going to

274
00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:19.720
play games with the binions. He told Sandy to plead

275
00:13:19.759 --> 00:13:24.120
the fifth, which she did over two hundred times. Rick

276
00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.919
Tavish was also subpoenaed. He pled the fifth ninety eight times.

277
00:13:29.559 --> 00:13:31.279
That's a lot of that's a lot of fifths.

278
00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:31.759
That is.

279
00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:34.759
In the end, the probate court ruled that Sandy was

280
00:13:34.919 --> 00:13:37.759
entitled to what was stipulated in the will prior to

281
00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:41.279
the changes. Ted allegedly requested the day before his death

282
00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:45.039
three hundred thousand dollars in cash, the house and everything

283
00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:47.840
in the house. Ted also had a one million dollar

284
00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:52.120
life insurance policy with Sandy named as the beneficiary, but

285
00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:55.279
he hadn't signed the policy, so it was deemed invalid.

286
00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:59.759
All in all, Sandy's share of Ted's inheritance was relatively small,

287
00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:03.080
seeing as his total net worth was probably around sixty

288
00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:07.960
million dollars. Wow, his daughter ended up inheriting most of that.

289
00:14:08.919 --> 00:14:11.279
Sandy had bigger things to worry about than how much

290
00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:13.679
she was going to get from Ted's estate. The police

291
00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:17.000
were closing in on her, and Rick Tabish tried to

292
00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:21.360
clear his name by hiring a private polygraph examiner who

293
00:14:21.399 --> 00:14:25.240
shared the results of his testing. Predictably, the results showed

294
00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:28.000
that Tabish answered no to the question of whether he

295
00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:30.720
had participated in the death of Ted Binion in any way,

296
00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:34.559
and that his answer was not deceptive.

297
00:14:34.840 --> 00:14:37.840
Do you think in the history of private polygraph examinations

298
00:14:38.120 --> 00:14:40.919
anyone has ever taken a private polygraph and come back

299
00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:43.759
and the police are like, oh, okay, you're good.

300
00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:47.960
Maybe it's good to practice your polygraph test though, to

301
00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:50.320
kind of like find out, not to share it with

302
00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:52.320
the police, but just to have someone come in just

303
00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:54.799
to see what your results might be. Yeah, it's okod

304
00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:56.639
before you are tested by the police.

305
00:14:56.720 --> 00:14:58.799
Yeah, And really, I think most people that take a

306
00:14:58.840 --> 00:15:01.360
private polygraph. In this type of situation, they're doing it

307
00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:03.840
for public opinion more than to try to get the

308
00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:05.399
police to clear them.

309
00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:08.720
Despite that, in June nineteen ninety nine, nine months after

310
00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:12.559
Ted's death, Sandy and Rick were arrested while grocery shopping together.

311
00:15:12.759 --> 00:15:17.320
They were both charged with murder, conspiracy, and grand theft.

312
00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:20.679
While Sandy was sitting in jail awaiting trial, she found

313
00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:24.200
a benefactor, or should we say that a benefactor found her.

314
00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:27.960
Sandy couldn't afford a good defense. Her money from Ted's

315
00:15:28.039 --> 00:15:30.679
estate was tied up in appeals by the Binyon family,

316
00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:33.080
not to mention the fact that if you're found guilty

317
00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:35.480
of murdering someone, you're not going to get the money.

318
00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:39.519
A wealthy Irish mining executive named Bill Fuller heard about

319
00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:42.919
Sandy's story. He had an instinct that Sandy couldn't have

320
00:15:42.919 --> 00:15:45.600
committed the crimes she was accused of. He went to

321
00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:48.759
the jail and met with Sandy, leaving that meeting convinced

322
00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:51.600
that she had been wrongly arrested, and he posted three

323
00:15:51.679 --> 00:15:53.559
hundred thousand dollars to bail her out.

324
00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:55.440
I'm going to back you up just for a second here.

325
00:15:55.799 --> 00:15:59.159
You said that Sandy would not inherit any money, correct,

326
00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:03.960
So if you kill someone, you don't get to you

327
00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:05.879
don't get your inheritance, right.

328
00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:09.159
And my understanding is that most states it's a state

329
00:16:09.159 --> 00:16:12.679
by state thing, but most states have a law in place.

330
00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:14.120
I think it's called the slayer law.

331
00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:16.000
I think it is called the slayer rule.

332
00:16:16.120 --> 00:16:18.720
Yes, full disclosure. We just had to google that because

333
00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:19.480
we were curious.

334
00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:22.399
Yes, but no, she would not be able to inherit

335
00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:24.320
his money if she was found guilty of murder.

336
00:16:24.639 --> 00:16:27.440
And that makes sense. It's just you know, a will

337
00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:30.519
is a legal binding, legal document, right.

338
00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:33.159
We did find that there are two states that don't

339
00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:37.720
have that rule, in Massachusetts in New Hampshire. Yes, So,

340
00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:40.320
just in the interest of full disclosure, those are the

341
00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:40.960
two states.

342
00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:43.159
So New Hampshire is the live for your die state.

343
00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:46.720
Is there really like that libertarian of a state?

344
00:16:47.559 --> 00:16:49.399
As far as I know, I don't know. I haven't

345
00:16:49.399 --> 00:16:50.919
spent a lot of time there, but I think I

346
00:16:50.919 --> 00:16:51.519
think it is.

347
00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:52.559
That's really interesting.

348
00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:55.559
So we were talking about this wealthy executive, Bill Fuller,

349
00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:58.440
who bailed Sandy out of jail. Not only that he

350
00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:00.679
hired attorneys for her and put her up at a

351
00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:04.319
posh apartment, leased her a new Mercedes, paid for her

352
00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:07.200
meals at gourmet restaurants while she was on house arrest

353
00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:08.359
awaiting trial.

354
00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:11.880
Why is everyone buying sandy Mercedes? I don't know.

355
00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:14.000
That's one of the aspects of this case that kind

356
00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:17.680
of bothers me. Rumors swirled that Sandy was having an

357
00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:21.039
affair with the much older Fuller, and even that he'd

358
00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:23.119
asked her to marry him, but he claimed he was

359
00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:26.440
just a good samaritan who believed in her innocence. He

360
00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:29.119
was media shy, and he never spoke in more detail

361
00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:32.839
about the nature of his relationship with Sandy Murphy. We'll

362
00:17:32.839 --> 00:17:34.039
be back after a break.

363
00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:45.160
Jerry's selection in the trial of Sandy Murphy and Rick

364
00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:49.079
Tabish began in March two thousand and the Clark County

365
00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:52.799
courtroom opening statements began a few days later, just as

366
00:17:52.839 --> 00:17:56.640
the thirty first annual Binion's World Series of Poker was

367
00:17:56.680 --> 00:17:59.640
getting underway at the Horseshoe. How much does it cost

368
00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:01.319
to enter the World's Series of Poker?

369
00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:03.079
Do you know, Well, it depends. There's like a lot

370
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:05.039
of different events in the World Series of Poker. The

371
00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:07.920
main event, I believe it's a ten thousand dollars entry fee.

372
00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:11.720
Okay. The prosecution called several witnesses that testify to Ted

373
00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:14.240
Binyon's state of mind in the days before his death,

374
00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:16.960
making it clear that he was looking to the future.

375
00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:20.799
He had plans, he was optimistic and didn't seem suicidal.

376
00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:24.680
According to his lawyer, James Brown, those plans didn't involve

377
00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:28.079
Sandy Murphy. Brown testified about the phone call from Ted

378
00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:29.640
the day before he died.

379
00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:35.640
He said, he said, take Sandy out of will if

380
00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:36.839
she doesn't kill me tonight.

381
00:18:38.319 --> 00:18:39.960
If I'm dead, you'll know what happened.

382
00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:43.279
By the time Brown made the change to Ted's will

383
00:18:43.319 --> 00:18:46.160
the next day, it was too late. Ted never got

384
00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:49.200
the chance to sign his updated will. They also had

385
00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:53.000
some witnesses who provided damaging testimony against both Sandy and Rick.

386
00:18:53.440 --> 00:18:55.839
A week before Ted's death, Sandy went to the Nieman

387
00:18:55.880 --> 00:18:58.839
Marcus Salon with a friend to get a manicure and pedicure.

388
00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:03.279
Apparently was in a talkative mood that day. For manicurist

389
00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:07.799
Deanna Perry testified that Sandy could apparently see Ted's future.

390
00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:13.759
Did miss Murphy make any comments about the Ted Binyon's future.

391
00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:16.680
It wasn't going to be around.

392
00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:19.240
What did she say, can tell he was going to

393
00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:23.359
die of a drug overdose? Did she tell you when

394
00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:26.359
he was going to die of a drug overdose within

395
00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:30.319
three weeks? Did she tell you what type of drug

396
00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:34.319
overdose that he was going to experience within three weeks?

397
00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:39.200
Caron not suspicious. She went on to say that Sandy

398
00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:41.640
was bragging about how much money she would inherit and

399
00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:45.000
the fact that her lover, Richard knew the combinations of

400
00:19:45.079 --> 00:19:49.480
all her husband's saves. Deanna testified that Sandy talked about

401
00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:52.440
this all in a joky way, but as soon as

402
00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:55.160
she saw the news about Ted Binyon's death, she called

403
00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:59.319
the Las Vegas Police Department. Ted's daughter, Bonnie, now nineteen,

404
00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:03.759
testify about her rocky relationship with Sandy Murphy, including one

405
00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:06.920
incident in June nineteen ninety eight when she came home

406
00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:08.480
from boarding school for a visit.

407
00:20:09.079 --> 00:20:12.720
My father came out and got in the car, and

408
00:20:14.680 --> 00:20:19.559
Miss Murphy came outside, and she was screaming and yelling

409
00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:24.640
at him and me, and that she didn't want me

410
00:20:24.799 --> 00:20:29.759
on her property and that she would call the police

411
00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:30.640
if I didn't leave.

412
00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:34.319
Did she.

413
00:20:36.039 --> 00:20:39.640
Make a comment about you a derogport comment, Yeah, she did,

414
00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:40.480
but what did.

415
00:20:40.359 --> 00:20:40.839
She call him?

416
00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:42.160
She called me a bitch.

417
00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:46.759
Kurt Gratzer, who had known Rick Tabish growing up in Montana,

418
00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:49.200
then later went to work for Tabash at one of

419
00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:53.319
his businesses, He testified about Rick Tabash's plans for Ted.

420
00:20:53.960 --> 00:20:56.359
He said that one day Tabish asked him for his

421
00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:58.559
help solving a problem.

422
00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:01.599
He told me that they're here. Was a former casino

423
00:21:01.640 --> 00:21:07.480
owner in Las Vegas that he had some business arrangements

424
00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:14.599
with that was backing out on him and oweding some money.

425
00:21:14.599 --> 00:21:17.240
I wasn't paying it, and he wanted to utilize my

426
00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:20.000
services to help him killing this man.

427
00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:22.720
He told Gratzer that the job he had done for

428
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:26.960
this former casino owner was transporting and burying tons of

429
00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:29.759
silver for him, and that after his death, Rick was

430
00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:32.599
going to dig it up. Rick had a few different

431
00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:35.880
ideas on how Gratzer could kill Ted Binion. First, he

432
00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:39.039
said that he could introduce Gratzer to Ted and that

433
00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:41.519
Ted would be interested in meeting him because of his

434
00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:45.279
Army Rangers background. Ted would want to show Gratzer the

435
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:47.599
guns that he kept in his house, which were generally

436
00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:50.559
kept loaded, and Gratzer could use one of them to

437
00:21:50.599 --> 00:21:53.759
shoot Ted in his head. He also had an idea

438
00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:58.039
about having a helicopter dropped Gratzer off at Ted's ranch

439
00:21:58.119 --> 00:22:00.519
out in the country, where he could shoot head through

440
00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:01.039
the window.

441
00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:02.279
The elaborate planning.

442
00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:05.680
Yeah, the third idea sounded much like the way Ted

443
00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:06.839
ultimately died.

444
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:11.480
Getting this man to consume a combination, a lethal combination

445
00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:17.359
of heroin, a drug I believe is xanax, and another

446
00:22:17.480 --> 00:22:20.400
anti anxiety medication that this man would use to calm

447
00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:24.480
himself down from the heroin, Rick said, from withdrawal from

448
00:22:24.519 --> 00:22:25.359
the Heroin.

449
00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:31.799
Their discussion about how to make Ted ingest these there.

450
00:22:31.720 --> 00:22:35.079
Was discussion about it, and I really didn't know how

451
00:22:35.079 --> 00:22:41.559
to go about that. There's a possibly I think I

452
00:22:42.519 --> 00:22:46.839
mentioned shoving it down his throat with a stick, possible

453
00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:51.319
tube type situation, but I'm not I'm not sure about that,

454
00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:54.359
and I was I was just using my imagination. I

455
00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:56.480
don't have any experience with this type of thing.

456
00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:02.240
Last part, actually, you know, just imagined it. I have

457
00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:03.480
no experience here.

458
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:06.680
But how would they know that Ted would have Xanax?

459
00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:09.359
Well, that's a good question. I'm not really sure. The

460
00:23:09.400 --> 00:23:11.519
only thing I can speculate is that I believe he

461
00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:14.279
had taken Xanax before when he was trying to get

462
00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:15.759
off heroin. But it does.

463
00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:18.039
Seem and I guess you can get zan x pretty easily.

464
00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:20.160
Yeah, but it is kind of a coincidental though, that

465
00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:22.440
he would say that and then Ted would just happen

466
00:23:22.519 --> 00:23:24.359
to go get a prescription for.

467
00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:26.799
Xanax the day well spars of that quantity. Yeah, it

468
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:29.400
was like one hundred and twenty right. Another witness, a

469
00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:34.160
business associate of Rick Tavish named Jason Fraser, testified that

470
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:37.279
Rick had asked him to help establish an alibi for

471
00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:41.480
the morning of September seventeenth. Prosecutors estimated Ted's time of

472
00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:44.000
death to be between nine am and noon that day.

473
00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:47.079
Fraser said that Tabash asked him to persuade a couple

474
00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:51.039
of employees at All Star Ready Mix, a concrete company

475
00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:54.359
in North Las Vegas that Tavish sometimes did business with,

476
00:23:54.759 --> 00:23:58.440
to falsely claim Tavish was there that morning from seven

477
00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:03.480
am till about eleven Prosecutors introduced a handwritten note from

478
00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:06.880
Tabish to Fraser offering to pay an attorney to help

479
00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:10.400
one of the men solve some unrelated legal troubles if

480
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:12.920
the men would place Tabish at All store of the

481
00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:16.680
morning of Ted's death, and the note Tabish wrote, quote,

482
00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:18.680
my life is on the line and we need to

483
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:22.519
fight fire with fire. Key did. The prosecution's case was

484
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:25.839
explaining to the jury how Ted Binyon could have been

485
00:24:25.880 --> 00:24:30.000
forced to ingest a lethal combination of heroin and xanax

486
00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:34.880
instead of overdosing accidentally or by suicide. For that, they

487
00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:39.720
brought in famed pathologist doctor Michael Bodden, former Chief Medical

488
00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:43.039
Examiner for New York City and host of the HBO

489
00:24:43.240 --> 00:24:48.880
show Autoxy. He is everywhere is atween him and Cyril wacked.

490
00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:51.160
Well, that's funny, you should mention wacked.

491
00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:54.880
Oh really. Although the Clark County Medical Examiner had ruled

492
00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:57.960
the cause of Ted's death to be an overdose, Boden

493
00:24:58.039 --> 00:25:01.759
said that actually it wasn't a no overdose. It was suffocation,

494
00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:06.279
he said, using a method called Burking b U Rking.

495
00:25:06.599 --> 00:25:07.880
I had never heard of this before.

496
00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:11.599
Burking is named after William Burke, who killed at least

497
00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:15.680
sixteen people in Scotland in the eighteen hundreds. Scotland was

498
00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:19.240
a center of anatomical studies at that time, which led

499
00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:23.160
to a shortage of cadavers for dissection. Burke and a

500
00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:26.400
partner killed people and then sold them to an anatomy

501
00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:30.119
lecturer for the generous sum of seven pounds or about

502
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:33.279
one thousand dollars today. That's horrible.

503
00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:34.319
It's very horrible.

504
00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:37.680
To make it appear that his victims died of natural causes,

505
00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:40.599
Burke would hold their nose and mouthshot, while his partner

506
00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:43.400
in crime would sit on the victim's chest to starve

507
00:25:43.480 --> 00:25:47.640
their lungs of air. Police eventually became suspicious, but because

508
00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:50.759
there was no visible injuries to the victims, they couldn't

509
00:25:50.799 --> 00:25:53.359
prove that they had been murdered. It was only after

510
00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:56.880
Burke's partner turned on him in exchange for immunity that

511
00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:00.400
he was convicted. Burke was hanged for his crimes, his

512
00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:04.680
corpse dissected for science, and his skeleton displayed at the

513
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:08.759
Anatomical Museum of Edinburgh Medical School, where it remains to

514
00:26:08.759 --> 00:26:12.279
this day. So this method of killing someone became known

515
00:26:12.359 --> 00:26:13.079
as burking.

516
00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:16.079
It's not very common. I'll just say because I was

517
00:26:16.119 --> 00:26:17.920
like looking this up trying to learn more about it.

518
00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:20.160
If you google burking, a lot of the results that

519
00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:24.720
come up will be for burking or expensive air Ma's

520
00:26:24.839 --> 00:26:26.799
burkein handbags.

521
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:29.920
Doctor Bottom believed that Ted had been restrained, evidenced by

522
00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:32.759
marks on his wrists that could have been from handcuffs,

523
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:37.240
then forced to swallow a liquefied concoction of heroin and xanax,

524
00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:41.920
then manually suffocated. Boden pointed to some of the autopsy

525
00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:46.640
findings to support his theory. First, Binion had patchieal hemorrhages

526
00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:49.680
and the lower part of his eyes, something that happens

527
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:54.200
when capillaries have ruptured under pressure. Second, there was significant

528
00:26:54.200 --> 00:26:57.039
bruising around Ted's mouth that could have been caused by

529
00:26:57.039 --> 00:27:01.720
someone forcefully squeezing his nose and mouth shut. Finally, Boden

530
00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:07.000
pointed to photos of small circular marks on Binyon's upper chest. These,

531
00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:11.000
Boden claimed, were the imprints of Binyon's sure buttons, caused

532
00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:13.960
by someone sitting on his chest and pressing the buttons

533
00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:17.599
into his skin. Boden spent eight hours on the stand

534
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:20.359
patiently explaining his findings to the jury.

535
00:27:20.920 --> 00:27:24.680
The defense called its own star pathologist who you just mentioned,

536
00:27:24.759 --> 00:27:28.319
Doctor Cyril Weckt, president of both the American Academy of

537
00:27:28.359 --> 00:27:32.440
Forensic Sciences and the American College of Legal Medicine. Weckt

538
00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:36.880
refuted Boden's findings, calling them outlandish and incorrect. He said

539
00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:39.559
that the redness around Binyon's mouth and nose could have

540
00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:42.920
been the result of resuscitation attempts, or even just a

541
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:46.160
bad day's shaving, and the marks on his chest could

542
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:48.960
also have been caused by the CPR that Sandy claimed

543
00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:52.039
to have performed after finding him. Weckt said that he

544
00:27:52.119 --> 00:27:54.880
believed the manner of death was most likely suicide by

545
00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:57.960
drug overdose. Once again, it's amazing how you can find

546
00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:04.079
two very well respected experts to say two completely different things.

547
00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:08.279
But an in weect or like they're both ancient and

548
00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:12.279
they've both done like these, you know, very high profile cases.

549
00:28:12.519 --> 00:28:14.599
It is really interesting. They probably hate each other.

550
00:28:14.839 --> 00:28:19.279
Probably. Finally, after six long weeks and testimony from one

551
00:28:19.319 --> 00:28:22.319
hundred and fifteen witnesses, the case went to the jury.

552
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:26.839
The jury deliberated for eight long days before finally coming

553
00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:29.839
back with their verdict. As the jurors entered the courtroom,

554
00:28:29.960 --> 00:28:33.519
four of them were wearing sunglasses. Sandy and Rick's legal

555
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:36.079
team couldn't help but wonder whether this was some sort

556
00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:39.240
of statement in response to their opening arguments when they

557
00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:42.200
admonished the jury to be so sure of their verdict

558
00:28:42.200 --> 00:28:44.119
that they could look their clients in the eye when

559
00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:46.839
it was all said and done. Sandy later said she

560
00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:49.799
knew when she saw the sunglasses that it was bad news.

561
00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:54.039
That is interesting, I have it really is. I'm surprised

562
00:28:54.039 --> 00:28:55.079
that judge let that fly.

563
00:28:55.319 --> 00:28:57.559
I'm surprised too. And it makes you wonder, Like, they

564
00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:00.000
deliberate for eight days, which is that's a long time

565
00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:02.400
for a jury to deliberate, So it makes you wonder

566
00:29:02.440 --> 00:29:05.640
if those four people, like if they didn't agree with

567
00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:07.559
the verdict and they were doing that as some sort

568
00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:09.119
of protest or something like that.

569
00:29:09.400 --> 00:29:11.079
Do you know if any time did they go to

570
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:13.599
the judge and say, oh, we can't come to it.

571
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:14.319
I didn't.

572
00:29:14.759 --> 00:29:17.319
I did not see anything in my research that they

573
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:19.440
did that. But it's certainly possible that they did.

574
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:22.480
With six weeks of testimony, that's a lot of testimony.

575
00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:24.880
Through too, Yeah, a ton of testimony. But it was

576
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:29.119
bad news, as Sandy predicted. The jury found both Sandy

577
00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:32.119
and Rick guilty of first degree murder and conspiring to

578
00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:35.119
steal more than seven million dollars worth of silver from

579
00:29:35.319 --> 00:29:39.519
Binyon's vacant lot in Perump. Several people made impact statements

580
00:29:39.559 --> 00:29:42.960
prior to the jury sentencing the pair. Ted's daughter, Bonnie,

581
00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:45.400
shared stories of her dad, how he took care of

582
00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:47.480
her when she was sick, how he taught her to

583
00:29:47.480 --> 00:29:50.079
play poker and other games, how he taught her how

584
00:29:50.119 --> 00:29:52.920
to fish. While he wasn't perfect, she said he was

585
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:55.400
a good dad who loved her, making sure she got

586
00:29:55.400 --> 00:29:57.640
a hug and a kiss every morning when she left

587
00:29:57.640 --> 00:30:00.480
for school, and how every night he would cite a

588
00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:02.880
line from a poem by Edgar Allan Poe that he

589
00:30:02.920 --> 00:30:04.359
had memorized as a child.

590
00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:08.599
There was a poem calling Anna Belly that he memorized

591
00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:15.480
when he was young, and every night before I would

592
00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:18.799
go to bed, when he tucked me in, he just

593
00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:21.519
he either said he knew it by heart, and he

594
00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:27.519
neither decided to make for there was a line it said, Oh,

595
00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:30.519
you would always tell me I love you so much

596
00:30:31.319 --> 00:30:33.480
that it makes the angels in heaven jealous.

597
00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:38.559
Most parents would read a doctor.

598
00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:40.240
But I think that's I think it kind of goes

599
00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:43.640
to Ted's personality, right. He was he was a unique guy.

600
00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:47.000
But yeah, obviously it meant something to her, very touching.

601
00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:50.559
Either Sandy nor Rick testified in their own defense, but

602
00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:53.200
they both spoke to plead with the jury for mercy

603
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:56.480
and sentencing. Here's the last part of Sandy's statement.

604
00:30:56.759 --> 00:30:57.799
I loved with.

605
00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:00.960
All my heart, and I know he loves me just

606
00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:03.680
as much. You have may taken.

607
00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:05.799
He may have.

608
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:08.839
Taken away my freedom, But no matter what goes on

609
00:31:08.920 --> 00:31:12.279
in these proceedings or what anybody ever says about us,

610
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:15.119
you can never take away the love we had for

611
00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:18.880
each other. I am so sad for all my hopes

612
00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:22.759
and dreams for the family I will never have, the

613
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:24.000
wedding that will never.

614
00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:26.960
Be, and my children that will never come.

615
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:30.480
Last night, I lay in bed thinking of what I

616
00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:33.759
wanted to say here today, and there was one thing

617
00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:34.599
that stuck.

618
00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:35.039
Out of my mind.

619
00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:37.680
There was something that I need to do for me.

620
00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:41.119
I want to say that I'm sorry to the Biggin family,

621
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:44.960
but most of all, I'm sorry to Monnie, and I'm

622
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:47.200
sorry for the day I walked out that door on

623
00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:50.039
September seventeenth and left him Marri Blones.

624
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:52.559
I'm sorry to Teddy.

625
00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:54.799
For not being there when he needed me the most.

626
00:31:55.799 --> 00:32:05.400
And I'm sorry.

627
00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:08.960
I am also sorry for making you listen to that.

628
00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:13.799
I know I'm a softy, but that sounded authentically sad

629
00:32:13.880 --> 00:32:14.079
to me.

630
00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:17.240
I mean, she was definitely having real emotion there, but

631
00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:19.079
it just felt so over the top to me. And

632
00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:21.319
the thing that really bugged me about the statement is

633
00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:23.559
not so much r emotion, but it's that it was

634
00:32:23.599 --> 00:32:26.119
all about her, like, I'm so sad for my hopes

635
00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:28.160
and dreams, for my the fact that I'm not going

636
00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:28.599
to have a way.

637
00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:30.119
Yeah, she was crying for herself.

638
00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:33.880
Yeah. Rick, in his statement, was more composed. He got

639
00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:36.559
up and started basically telling his life story, all the

640
00:32:36.599 --> 00:32:39.240
mistakes that he had made and learned from along the way.

641
00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:41.960
He went on for so long that the judge finally

642
00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:44.240
took a break and he told Rick to get on

643
00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:46.839
with it. Here's the end of Rick's statement.

644
00:32:47.319 --> 00:32:50.599
Please give me my life all I ask because I'd

645
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:53.839
like to get out of prison. It's twenty years from now,

646
00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:55.880
so that I can at least see my children when

647
00:32:55.880 --> 00:32:59.440
they're married, try to get back and involved in society

648
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:02.480
and get started again. And hopefully my mother and my

649
00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:07.720
father are still alive in my I can do something

650
00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:10.559
with my brothers. I don't know where else to go, Folks.

651
00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:14.799
I could talk for two days, but I'm my heart's

652
00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:17.359
out to everybody involved, and that's all I got to say.

653
00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:21.000
Thank you, and please consider me and missus Murphy and

654
00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:23.119
and your decisions.

655
00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:23.440
Thank you.

656
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:26.079
I thought it was funny. I could go on all day,

657
00:33:26.200 --> 00:33:28.960
and I listened to a lot of his I listened

658
00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:30.640
to all of this statement. But it was funny because

659
00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:32.440
the judge, like, he went on for a half an

660
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:34.680
hour and he was just kind of rambling, and the

661
00:33:34.759 --> 00:33:37.519
judge was finally like, like, buddy, you know, we don't

662
00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:39.720
I don't want to cut you off, but you really

663
00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:41.079
need to kind of wrap that.

664
00:33:41.240 --> 00:33:41.480
Yeah.

665
00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:41.960
Yeah.

666
00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:45.079
They were both sentenced to life in prison, with the

667
00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:48.559
possibility of parole starting after twenty years for the murder,

668
00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:53.160
plus additional time for burglary and other offenses. That would

669
00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:55.359
mean that Sandy would be in prison until at least

670
00:33:55.400 --> 00:33:58.799
age forty eight and Tavish until his late fifties.

671
00:33:59.079 --> 00:34:01.200
So is Sandy only like twenty eight.

672
00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:04.319
Yeah, oh okay, but that is not the end of

673
00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:08.840
Sandy Murphy and Rick Tavish's story. Sandy immediately started working

674
00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:12.400
on her appeal, and she wasn't playing around. She drafted

675
00:34:12.440 --> 00:34:15.480
a thirty page document outlining all of the reasons why

676
00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:19.039
she believed she was wrongfully convicted. She wanted to work

677
00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:21.000
with the best in the business, so she sent her

678
00:34:21.079 --> 00:34:24.760
thirty page letter off to Alan Dershowitz, a high profile

679
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:28.159
attorney who seemed to love taking up on unpopular causes

680
00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:32.519
like OJ Simpson, Jeffrey Epstein, Mike Tyson, and Leona Helmsley,

681
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:35.360
among others. So we've got all the big wigs here.

682
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:37.719
We've got Michael Boden, we've got Cyril Weckt, and now

683
00:34:37.719 --> 00:34:42.119
we've got Alan Dershowitz. Dershowitz read her letter and was impressed,

684
00:34:42.440 --> 00:34:45.159
He said, quote, she wrote me a thirty page letter

685
00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:48.360
that was so compelling, so passionate, and so persuasive that

686
00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:51.400
although I get hundreds of letters every month from inmates,

687
00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:54.239
I responded to it. She practically wrote a brief.

688
00:34:54.679 --> 00:34:57.960
I hadn't googled a picture of Sandy Murphy, but Alan

689
00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:02.159
Dershowitz's response made me want to see what she looked like.

690
00:35:02.280 --> 00:35:04.039
And she is a very attractive woman.

691
00:35:04.280 --> 00:35:07.320
You think that Dershowitz took her case based on her appearance,

692
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:11.159
not her thirty page brief. Yes, okay, maybe.

693
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:13.719
We'll seemed like a lot of men found her alluring.

694
00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:18.320
Yes, for sure, of course, Dershowitz's services weren't going to

695
00:35:18.320 --> 00:35:21.639
be cheap, but fortunately for Sandy she had her benefactor,

696
00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:24.800
another one of these men that found her alluring, Bill Fuller,

697
00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:28.039
there to pick up the tab As Dershowitz went to work,

698
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:31.320
Sandy was getting in trouble in prison. She was sharing

699
00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:35.039
a cell with two other high profile inmates, Margaret Rudine,

700
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:38.159
convicted of the December nineteen ninety four murder of her

701
00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:43.639
husband Las Vegas real estate magnate Ronald Rudine, and Jessica Williams,

702
00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:47.440
a topless dancer who plowed into sixteenagers collecting trash by

703
00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:51.000
the freeway while under the influence of marijuana and ecstasy,

704
00:35:51.159 --> 00:35:55.119
killing them all. Rudine complained that Sandy Murphy was carrying

705
00:35:55.119 --> 00:35:58.599
on a relationship with Williams in the cell in exchange

706
00:35:58.599 --> 00:36:02.280
for money and contraband. The women were given new cellmates

707
00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:05.840
to address the situation. It took some time, but Dershowitz's

708
00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:08.679
appeal made its way to the Nevada Supreme Court in

709
00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:11.599
two thousand and three. The court ruled in favor of

710
00:36:11.679 --> 00:36:14.239
Murphy and Tabish, agreeing that they did not get a

711
00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:17.800
fair trial. There were a couple of reasons for this. First,

712
00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:21.119
the trial included a charge against Rick extortion with a

713
00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:25.400
deadly weapon, which was completely unrelated to the Ted Binyon murder.

714
00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:27.440
We didn't talk about it when we went through the

715
00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:31.760
first trial because frankly, it was completely unrelated. The prosecution

716
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:34.519
claimed that they included it to help establish a motive

717
00:36:34.599 --> 00:36:37.719
for Tabish, but the High Court wasn't buying it. They

718
00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:41.960
said that including the extortion case was extremely prejudicial, especially

719
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:45.360
towards Sandy Murphy, who had nothing to do with it. Second,

720
00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:48.239
when Ted's lawyer James Brown talked about the phone call

721
00:36:48.280 --> 00:36:51.639
where Ted supposedly said, quote, take Sandy out of the

722
00:36:51.679 --> 00:36:54.000
will if she doesn't kill me tonight. If I'm dead,

723
00:36:54.360 --> 00:36:57.119
you'll know what happened. That should not have been allowed

724
00:36:57.199 --> 00:37:00.559
because it was hearsay. The state quickly announced they would

725
00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:04.119
retry Murphy and Tabish. In the meantime, Sandy was able

726
00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:06.679
to bail out of jail thanks to more help from

727
00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:18.639
Bill Fuller. We'll be back after a break. During our break,

728
00:37:18.719 --> 00:37:21.920
we sampled the last of our UK snacks from our

729
00:37:21.960 --> 00:37:26.719
friend Samantha. We had some Galaxy chocolate chunk cookies and

730
00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:31.280
some Maynards wine gums which were kind of like more

731
00:37:31.320 --> 00:37:33.559
like gummy traditional kind of gummy bear type.

732
00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:35.880
Yeah, they were really yummy. I really liked the texture.

733
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:38.800
They were like really chewy. Those were really good. And

734
00:37:38.840 --> 00:37:41.880
the chocolate chip cookies some of the best packaged chocolate

735
00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:43.000
chip cookies I've ever had.

736
00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:46.360
Yeah, I thought they were both great. So once again, Samantha,

737
00:37:46.400 --> 00:37:48.480
thank you so much for sending all of that. That

738
00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:50.960
was so nice of you. We really appreciate it.

739
00:37:51.079 --> 00:37:52.440
We really do. Thank you so much.

740
00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:55.440
The road to the second trial was a bit bumpy

741
00:37:55.480 --> 00:37:59.639
for Sandy Murphy's legal team. While Alan Dershowitz handled her appeal,

742
00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:02.480
he brought on a new, high profile attorney to handle

743
00:38:02.519 --> 00:38:06.199
the retrial, Dick de Garin. You remember Dick de Garan.

744
00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:07.719
Of course, I remember Dick de Garon.

745
00:38:09.079 --> 00:38:11.840
You remember him from defending David Temple when he was

746
00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:15.360
accused of killing his wife Belinda. But to Garan got

747
00:38:15.400 --> 00:38:18.480
fed up with what he called non lawyer interference by

748
00:38:18.519 --> 00:38:22.119
other people who were advising Murphy. He was replaced by

749
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:25.639
Herb Sachs, who also quit for the same reason. It's

750
00:38:25.719 --> 00:38:29.400
unclear exactly who was doing the non lawyer interference. Perhaps

751
00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:32.119
it was Bill Fuller, who was supposed to be footing

752
00:38:32.119 --> 00:38:35.360
the bill, but according to Sachs, Fuller wasn't paying him

753
00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:39.039
as promised. Sachs said, quote, A lawyer has to call

754
00:38:39.079 --> 00:38:41.480
the shots, and I learned years ago not to work

755
00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:45.519
for free. Sandy ended up with lawyer Michael Christali, who

756
00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:49.320
was young but highly capable. Tavish's choice of lawyer was

757
00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:53.239
Tony Sarah, who is quite the character. Sarah has long,

758
00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:56.320
flowing white hair and had taken a vow of poverty.

759
00:38:56.719 --> 00:38:59.719
He lived a frugal lifestyle, drove an old, beat up car,

760
00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:02.119
and he never owned a cell phone, bank account, or

761
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:05.119
credit card. He refused to pay his taxes during the

762
00:39:05.159 --> 00:39:07.920
war in Iraq because of his conviction that the war

763
00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:10.719
was wrong. For this, he would serve ten months in

764
00:39:10.760 --> 00:39:13.400
federal prison and lose his law license for a year,

765
00:39:13.880 --> 00:39:16.199
but all of that took place after the retrial of

766
00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:19.159
Sandy and Rick. Sarah was a character, but he was

767
00:39:19.239 --> 00:39:22.280
also a brilliant lawyer and a showman in the courtroom.

768
00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:26.599
He sounds very interesting he is, and very unlawyerlike.

769
00:39:26.760 --> 00:39:28.480
I've got a couple of clips of him later that

770
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:31.119
you'll find very interesting, but you should definitely look up

771
00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:33.760
like pictures of him and if there are other videos

772
00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:36.719
of him. He's really one of a kind. The second

773
00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:40.599
trial started in October two thousand and four. Sandy Murphy

774
00:39:40.679 --> 00:39:43.920
was now thirty two and Rick Tavish thirty nine. Their

775
00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:47.719
defense teams were much better prepared this time around. After all,

776
00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:51.159
they knew exactly what to expect this time. James Brown

777
00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:54.599
couldn't testify about his conversation with Binyon the day before

778
00:39:54.599 --> 00:39:57.280
his death about taking Sandy out of the will if

779
00:39:57.320 --> 00:39:59.960
she didn't kill him first, and one of the key

780
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:03.320
he witnesses from the first trial, Kurt Gratzer, who testified

781
00:40:03.320 --> 00:40:06.639
about Tavish asking him to kill Binyon, told a different

782
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:10.159
story this time around. He said that when Tabash talked

783
00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:13.119
to him about killing Binyon, it was just two guys

784
00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:16.280
joking around, like two kids playing. As he put it,

785
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:20.119
he never thought Tavish was serious, and some of the

786
00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:23.119
details he shared at the first trial may have actually

787
00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:25.239
been part of a dream that he had and not

788
00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:28.559
even discussed with Tavish at all. Can you imagine that, Like,

789
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:31.159
I think, yeah, I think that was just a dream.

790
00:40:31.239 --> 00:40:34.199
Maybe I don't know if that actually happened or not.

791
00:40:34.360 --> 00:40:37.280
The best defense, no, he ended up being treated as

792
00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:40.760
a hostile witness by the prosecution in his testimony just

793
00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:43.679
ended up leaving the jury confused about what to believe.

794
00:40:44.440 --> 00:40:47.559
Baden was again the star witness for the prosecution, but

795
00:40:47.639 --> 00:40:51.400
this time the defense was prepared to dispute his burking theory.

796
00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:54.199
If you remember, one of the key pieces of evidence

797
00:40:54.239 --> 00:40:57.480
for his burking theory were the circular marks on Ted's chest,

798
00:40:57.880 --> 00:41:00.719
which he said were the impressions of button being pushed

799
00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:04.039
into his skin by someone sitting on his chest. But

800
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:06.880
the defense blew up the photos of those marks and

801
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:11.440
had experts testify that they were either dermatitis or carcinoma,

802
00:41:11.760 --> 00:41:15.079
in other words, skin cancer. Oh in all, the defense

803
00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:19.280
had nine medical experts who ridiculed Boden's borking theory, saying

804
00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:23.159
that it was preposterous. Lawyer Tony Sarah ripped into Boden

805
00:41:23.239 --> 00:41:26.719
because he never examined Ted's body, and he never examined

806
00:41:26.719 --> 00:41:29.840
the shirt that Ted was wearing. All of his conclusions

807
00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:32.920
were based on looking at photos. Here's a little bit

808
00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:34.280
of their fiery exchange.

809
00:41:35.119 --> 00:41:40.760
It would have been helpful if you could have had

810
00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:44.559
the shirt that was on deceit.

811
00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:48.639
Will you agree it would have been helpful? But the

812
00:41:48.639 --> 00:41:52.719
photographs are very useful in themselves.

813
00:41:52.840 --> 00:41:54.679
So you want to you'd like the shirt, you'd like

814
00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:56.400
to look at the buttons. You like the measured the.

815
00:41:56.400 --> 00:41:57.199
Buttons, wouldn't you?

816
00:41:58.599 --> 00:42:04.320
Yes, Okay, this is the point points obvious. The two

817
00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:07.400
levels of fabric in between the button and the chest.

818
00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:10.519
There's no way there's going to be an imprint in

819
00:42:10.599 --> 00:42:14.800
the manner that you have interpreted. Isn't that a fact, sir?

820
00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:20.320
Well, I don't accept what your premise is. The button

821
00:42:21.599 --> 00:42:25.280
has to be in some way against the skin, and

822
00:42:25.400 --> 00:42:28.280
if it's twisted over. I could take this button and

823
00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:30.639
just twist it against my skin and make it a

824
00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:32.400
very nice mark, which I just did.

825
00:42:33.320 --> 00:42:38.000
Yes, But the button, according to evidence, was buttoned.

826
00:42:38.360 --> 00:42:40.320
Well, you're telling me the evidence. I didn't see any

827
00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:43.639
record of that, and maybe somebody testified to that. But

828
00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:49.000
my opinion is that one button was buttoned, the others

829
00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:50.280
weren't button No, sure.

830
00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:52.480
The two top buttons were buttoned.

831
00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:57.679
Not in the picture. I don't believed the button. Yeah,

832
00:42:57.679 --> 00:42:59.039
I don't know what he did or didn't, but I

833
00:42:59.079 --> 00:43:02.400
think that there was no record of that. But at

834
00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:04.400
least when I looked over the record for.

835
00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:07.480
Your theory to prevail, sir. Isn't it just as you

836
00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:10.079
just said, that button got to be up against your skin?

837
00:43:10.599 --> 00:43:12.239
Well, it could be that it's not just what you said.

838
00:43:13.239 --> 00:43:17.519
If the button isn't against the skin, your fantasy theory

839
00:43:17.559 --> 00:43:20.599
goes out the window, doesn't it. Your theory goes out

840
00:43:20.599 --> 00:43:21.639
the window, doesn't it.

841
00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:24.519
No, that was quite the exchange. You could tell that

842
00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:28.159
Boden was getting on the defensive there. He couldn't really

843
00:43:28.559 --> 00:43:29.559
respond effectively.

844
00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:32.800
Well, he doesn't like to admit he's wrong, right, And

845
00:43:32.920 --> 00:43:36.280
that's the problem of expert witnesses, right, They can't really

846
00:43:36.360 --> 00:43:39.679
back down because then their testimony is garbage.

847
00:43:39.760 --> 00:43:40.199
Yeah.

848
00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:43.079
I think that like this whole theory that Boden had.

849
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:46.280
It may have been true that he died of suffocation,

850
00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:49.159
but the whole thing with the buttons was just it

851
00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:51.280
just wasn't well thought out, and I think it really

852
00:43:51.320 --> 00:43:53.760
made him look bad. In the first trial, he kind

853
00:43:53.800 --> 00:43:55.599
of got away with it because they weren't really prepared

854
00:43:55.639 --> 00:43:58.599
to respond to it. But this time they were totally prepared,

855
00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:00.679
and it just it just made him look really bad.

856
00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:03.480
I think I think he's known for being a windbag,

857
00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:07.159
and he doesn't go to the crime scene usually he's

858
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:10.199
looking at pictures, right, and it's just not the same.

859
00:44:10.480 --> 00:44:12.440
Yeah. I think a lot of these guys that are

860
00:44:12.599 --> 00:44:15.360
really well known and they make a huge amount of money,

861
00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:18.119
I just don't trust them to be honest with you.

862
00:44:18.159 --> 00:44:19.400
I just think they're in it for the money.

863
00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:20.079
Yeah.

864
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:23.800
Sandy Murphy again decided not to testify in her own defense,

865
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:26.360
even though she said after the first trial that that

866
00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:30.360
decision was a mistake. Rick Tavish, however, was confident that

867
00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:33.119
he could persuade a jury of his innocence, and so

868
00:44:33.239 --> 00:44:34.199
he took the stand.

869
00:44:34.719 --> 00:44:37.320
Did you have anything to do with the death of

870
00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:38.119
Ted Binyon?

871
00:44:39.199 --> 00:44:43.800
Absolutely and unequivocally not. I did not kill Ted Binyon.

872
00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:48.159
So there you have it. This opened up an opportunity

873
00:44:48.159 --> 00:44:52.840
for prosecutors. Tabish's other conviction on extortion hadn't been thrown out,

874
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:55.960
and he had other convictions on his record as well,

875
00:44:56.400 --> 00:44:58.800
so the prosecutors wanted to be sure that the jury

876
00:44:58.880 --> 00:44:59.800
knew about those.

877
00:45:00.239 --> 00:45:02.119
And we should believe you even though you've been convicted

878
00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:03.159
of assault with the deadly.

879
00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:05.519
Weapon, correct, Yes, And we should believe you even though

880
00:45:05.559 --> 00:45:08.159
you've been convicted of false imprisonment with the deadly weapon. Yes.

881
00:45:08.599 --> 00:45:09.559
Judge had nothing else.

882
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:14.440
During his closing, attorney Tony Sarah displayed the theatrics that

883
00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:17.119
he was known for. It was a performance that they're

884
00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:20.039
still talking about in Vegas. Here's a short clip.

885
00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:27.760
It's the casino. They rise high into the heavens. The

886
00:45:27.760 --> 00:45:34.920
neon lights are blinding. Each casino is like an ancient palace.

887
00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:41.360
Mister Ted Binyon was a demo god. He lies fallen

888
00:45:41.679 --> 00:45:47.159
on his shield. Hail Caesar, we will.

889
00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:50.360
Find an assailant.

890
00:45:51.320 --> 00:45:56.360
A head must be brought forth and placed on the

891
00:45:56.440 --> 00:45:58.480
stick by dusk.

892
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:05.559
I don't know how effective it was. It's really quite something,

893
00:46:05.679 --> 00:46:08.159
isn't it. I wish I could have found more of

894
00:46:08.199 --> 00:46:12.679
his clips of him in the courtroom, especially that closing statement.

895
00:46:12.760 --> 00:46:17.559
But boy, yeah, what a what a Performer's funny this time.

896
00:46:17.639 --> 00:46:20.719
The jury deliberated for four days before announcing they had

897
00:46:20.760 --> 00:46:23.719
reached a verdict. While waiting for the jury to file in,

898
00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:26.760
Sandy Murphy was so nervous that she vomited into a

899
00:46:26.760 --> 00:46:30.360
wastebasket in the courtroom. This was her last chance at freedom.

900
00:46:30.920 --> 00:46:34.440
The jury's verdict, they decided that Tabish and Murphy were

901
00:46:34.519 --> 00:46:38.800
not guilty of murdering Ted binyon. The look on your face.

902
00:46:38.599 --> 00:46:43.119
Right now, Wow, I'm very surprised. Yeah, are you surprised?

903
00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:47.079
I was surprised. Yes. The deciding factor seemed to be

904
00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:51.519
the doubt around Boden's burking theory and those supposed button marks.

905
00:46:51.880 --> 00:46:54.760
The jury four person said, quote, we pretty much felt

906
00:46:54.760 --> 00:46:57.840
that they weren't button marks. Sandy and Rick were both

907
00:46:57.880 --> 00:47:01.199
found guilty of grand theft for attempting to steal Ted's silver.

908
00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:03.639
Rick would have to spend a few more years in

909
00:47:03.679 --> 00:47:07.119
prison because of that and his extortion conviction, but the

910
00:47:07.159 --> 00:47:10.119
time that Sandy had already served was enough to cover

911
00:47:10.199 --> 00:47:13.519
her sentence for the theft. So six years after Ted's death,

912
00:47:13.800 --> 00:47:15.280
she was free as a bird.

913
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:17.320
So did she get the inheritance?

914
00:47:17.360 --> 00:47:17.519
Then?

915
00:47:18.079 --> 00:47:21.079
I believe she did, Although you know how these things

916
00:47:21.599 --> 00:47:24.199
are so complicated and they end up in like these

917
00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:28.400
long term court room battles, So it wasn't as clear

918
00:47:28.440 --> 00:47:30.679
cut as yes, she got the inheritance. There was all

919
00:47:30.760 --> 00:47:34.960
kinds of different court hearings, she sued for wrongful imprisonment,

920
00:47:35.719 --> 00:47:37.360
there was a whole bunch of stuff that went on.

921
00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:40.760
But I believe at this point she was entitled to

922
00:47:41.199 --> 00:47:43.239
what she was promised in his will, but.

923
00:47:43.239 --> 00:47:46.239
Her legal fees probably would have eaten a lot of

924
00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:46.559
that up.

925
00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:48.400
Well, she had Bill Fuller there to help with the

926
00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:51.079
legal fees, but yes, that would have eaten a lot

927
00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:53.280
of it up. Let's catch up on a few things

928
00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:56.599
that have happened since Sandy and Rick were acquitted. First,

929
00:47:56.679 --> 00:47:59.079
we just talked about Bill Fuller, the wealthy Irish guy

930
00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:01.840
who helped Sandy pay her bail and for her high

931
00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:05.320
priced legal team. After her release, he helped set her

932
00:48:05.360 --> 00:48:07.840
up in a home in Henderson, Nevada, which is a

933
00:48:07.880 --> 00:48:10.199
suburb of Vegas, and gave her a job with his

934
00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:13.400
mining company. But apparently the money that he spent on

935
00:48:13.480 --> 00:48:17.039
her wasn't actually a gift. It was alone. In two

936
00:48:17.119 --> 00:48:20.039
thousand and six, it was revealed that Sandy owed William

937
00:48:20.079 --> 00:48:22.719
Fuller four and a half million dollars for the money

938
00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:23.920
he spent on her defense.

939
00:48:24.039 --> 00:48:25.880
Holy God, that's a lot of money.

940
00:48:26.039 --> 00:48:28.960
It is da David Roger was shocked at that amount.

941
00:48:29.000 --> 00:48:32.320
He said, quote, I'm astonished that mister Fuller has paid

942
00:48:32.360 --> 00:48:35.880
so much money to defend Sandy Murphy. I've never heard

943
00:48:35.880 --> 00:48:39.000
of attorneys earning this much in legal fees in one case.

944
00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:41.320
I mean, it is it's a huge amount, and you

945
00:48:41.320 --> 00:48:44.800
know it's Alan Dershowitz partly right to prepare for the appeal.

946
00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:47.559
But then she had all these other lawyers in and yeah,

947
00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:49.800
she had the best legal team that you could get.

948
00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:53.119
It's unclear whether Fuller ever got paid back or not.

949
00:48:53.360 --> 00:48:56.480
He actually died four years after Sandy was acquitted in

950
00:48:56.480 --> 00:48:59.960
two thousand and eight. Rick Tavish was released from prison

951
00:49:00.199 --> 00:49:03.599
in twenty ten. He returned to Montana, where he got

952
00:49:03.639 --> 00:49:07.519
into the oil services business. According to him, he did well,

953
00:49:07.559 --> 00:49:10.440
and then he started a business building server farms to

954
00:49:10.519 --> 00:49:14.719
mine cryptocurrency. In twenty twenty two, his company won a

955
00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:17.840
contract to build a one point nine billion dollar data

956
00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:21.679
center in North Dakota Wow. At that time, Tabash told

957
00:49:21.679 --> 00:49:24.519
a reporter quote, I don't want my name tarnished anymore.

958
00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:26.159
I just want to be looked at like a good

959
00:49:26.159 --> 00:49:29.239
person who does good things. I hold no grudges. I've

960
00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:32.559
moved way beyond that. Tabash said that he hadn't spoken

961
00:49:32.679 --> 00:49:36.599
with Sandy Murphy since they were acquitted. Sandy Murphy eventually

962
00:49:36.679 --> 00:49:39.400
made her way back to California. She worked in the

963
00:49:39.400 --> 00:49:41.960
mortgage business for a while, and then she met Kevin

964
00:49:42.039 --> 00:49:45.280
Purepan the owner of an art gallery in Laguna Beach.

965
00:49:45.800 --> 00:49:48.400
The two began dating, and in two thousand and seven

966
00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:51.199
she moved in with him and started working with him

967
00:49:51.239 --> 00:49:53.800
to run the gallery. The two got married in two

968
00:49:53.880 --> 00:49:56.960
thousand and nine and had two children. She said quote,

969
00:49:57.000 --> 00:49:59.039
I go to work every day, I have a very

970
00:49:59.039 --> 00:50:03.039
happy life and I love my husband. Ted Binyon's sixty

971
00:50:03.039 --> 00:50:05.880
seven hundred square foot mansion has changed hands a couple

972
00:50:05.880 --> 00:50:09.480
of times since his death, most recently in twenty nineteen

973
00:50:09.599 --> 00:50:12.880
for a price of one point four million dollars. Rumors

974
00:50:12.960 --> 00:50:15.920
persist that more of Ted's silver is buried, either on

975
00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:18.960
his property there, at the ranch he owned in Perump,

976
00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:22.199
or in some other location. In two thousand and one,

977
00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:25.840
landscapers found a large, freshly dug hole in the backyard

978
00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:29.599
of Ted's house in Vegas. It's unknown who was responsible

979
00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:33.639
or whether they found anything when forty eight hours covered

980
00:50:33.679 --> 00:50:35.800
the case. In two thousand and six, they had a

981
00:50:35.880 --> 00:50:38.840
crew scan the one point four acre yard looking for

982
00:50:39.039 --> 00:50:42.199
likely hiding places. They dug up a couple of spots,

983
00:50:42.239 --> 00:50:45.400
but they came up empty as well. In twenty nineteen,

984
00:50:45.559 --> 00:50:49.360
Richard Cleaves, who had managed Binion's ranch in Perump, was

985
00:50:49.480 --> 00:50:52.960
arrested after sneaking onto the property and digging several holes.

986
00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:55.480
There's a lot of people out there that really believe

987
00:50:55.559 --> 00:50:58.400
that there is more silver somewhere and that they're going

988
00:50:58.480 --> 00:51:01.519
to find it. After selling his share of Binyon's Horseshoe

989
00:51:01.559 --> 00:51:05.800
to his sister, Becky, Jack Binyon began opening riverboat casinos

990
00:51:05.880 --> 00:51:09.039
under the Horseshoe name. He sold his company to Hara's

991
00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:12.119
in two thousand and four. His net worth is estimated

992
00:51:12.159 --> 00:51:14.280
to be about five hundred million dollars.

993
00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:15.159
We're so poor.

994
00:51:17.199 --> 00:51:21.000
After acquiring the majority stake in Binyon's Horseshoe, Becky Binyon

995
00:51:21.079 --> 00:51:25.480
Bainen implemented several cost cutting measures, including the removal of

996
00:51:25.599 --> 00:51:28.280
the display case near the front door that held one

997
00:51:28.320 --> 00:51:31.000
million dollars in cash. We didn't really talk about this,

998
00:51:31.079 --> 00:51:34.119
but binions from the beginning they had this big display

999
00:51:34.159 --> 00:51:36.719
case that had cash inside of it, like a million

1000
00:51:36.760 --> 00:51:39.360
dollars of cash, and people loved to take their photo

1001
00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:41.639
in front of that, so that was not very popular

1002
00:51:41.679 --> 00:51:44.559
when she took that out. She also made changes to

1003
00:51:44.639 --> 00:51:47.840
the World Series of Poker and closed a popular restaurant

1004
00:51:47.880 --> 00:51:51.599
in the casino. All of these moves were unpopular with customers,

1005
00:51:51.639 --> 00:51:54.840
and the Horseshoe became bogged down in debt. A union

1006
00:51:54.880 --> 00:51:57.199
dispute in two thousand and two and two thousand and

1007
00:51:57.199 --> 00:51:59.760
three proved to be the final nail in the coffin

1008
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:03.519
of Binyon family ownership of the casino. The casino was

1009
00:52:03.599 --> 00:52:06.480
ordered to make payments on the union member's medical insurance

1010
00:52:06.480 --> 00:52:09.960
and pension plans, but fell behind and eventually stopped making

1011
00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:14.280
the payments. Federal Marshalls and IRS agents raided the casino

1012
00:52:14.440 --> 00:52:17.320
in early two thousand and four and seized a million

1013
00:52:17.360 --> 00:52:20.480
dollars to satisfy the debt, which forced the casino to

1014
00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:23.480
close its doors because it didn't have enough cash to operate.

1015
00:52:23.920 --> 00:52:26.840
Soon after that, Becky Bainen reached a deal to sell

1016
00:52:26.840 --> 00:52:30.519
the casino to Harrah's Entertainment. It's still called Binyons, but

1017
00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:33.519
the era of family ownership was over after more than

1018
00:52:33.559 --> 00:52:37.079
fifty years. In twenty twenty three, Harrah's brought back a

1019
00:52:37.159 --> 00:52:39.639
new and improved million dollar display case.

1020
00:52:39.840 --> 00:52:41.679
Oh, Harras just owns everything, don't they?

1021
00:52:41.800 --> 00:52:42.519
Apparently they did?

1022
00:52:42.639 --> 00:52:43.079
Yeah.

1023
00:52:43.360 --> 00:52:46.039
While Sandy Murphy and Rick Tavish have both gotten the

1024
00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:49.559
second chance at life and seem happy and successful. Ted

1025
00:52:49.559 --> 00:52:52.800
Binyon is still dead. He left behind his daughter, Bonnie,

1026
00:52:52.840 --> 00:52:56.079
who inherited the vast majority of his estate. I haven't

1027
00:52:56.079 --> 00:52:58.480
been able to find out a lot about what's happened

1028
00:52:58.519 --> 00:53:01.320
to Bonnie since, other than the fact that she married

1029
00:53:01.599 --> 00:53:05.039
Justin Torkoldsen, an actor best known for his role as

1030
00:53:05.119 --> 00:53:08.239
Rick Forrester in The Bold and the Beautiful. They married

1031
00:53:08.239 --> 00:53:10.920
in two thousand and one and divorced six years later.

1032
00:53:11.480 --> 00:53:14.079
I mentioned this to you earlier too, But I believe

1033
00:53:14.199 --> 00:53:17.039
that Ted also had a son, and I believe his

1034
00:53:17.119 --> 00:53:20.840
name was Damien, But I could not find anything about

1035
00:53:21.039 --> 00:53:24.000
his son. I heard one person mention it during testimony,

1036
00:53:24.360 --> 00:53:27.039
but there was never any other mention of him, so

1037
00:53:27.079 --> 00:53:30.480
I don't know if they were estranged or what. But

1038
00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:34.519
he was never mentioned anywhere that I could find. Ted

1039
00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:37.760
Binyon was a deeply flawed man, born into a wealthy

1040
00:53:37.800 --> 00:53:40.880
family that made its fortune through gambling and connections to

1041
00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:45.000
organized crime. He had his demons, including heroin addiction and

1042
00:53:45.079 --> 00:53:48.719
a weakness for alcohol and showgirls. But he also loved

1043
00:53:48.760 --> 00:53:51.320
and was very close to his daughter Bonnie and took

1044
00:53:51.320 --> 00:53:55.119
good care of her. He was mathematically gifted, an avid reader,

1045
00:53:55.280 --> 00:53:58.320
and a history buff who loved being outdoors. He had

1046
00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:01.119
friends of all ages from eight to eight and often

1047
00:54:01.199 --> 00:54:04.760
helped people who had run into hard times financially rest

1048
00:54:04.760 --> 00:54:08.320
in peace. Ted. What do you think about Sandy Murphy

1049
00:54:08.360 --> 00:54:10.599
and Rick Tavist. Do you think that they got away

1050
00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:11.199
with murder?

1051
00:54:11.559 --> 00:54:13.719
It sounds like they did. Yeah, what do you think?

1052
00:54:14.119 --> 00:54:16.000
I kind of think so too. I mean, I don't

1053
00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:19.000
want to jump to conclusions because a jury did find

1054
00:54:19.039 --> 00:54:23.880
them not guilty, but it just there just seems found

1055
00:54:23.880 --> 00:54:26.679
them guilty yeah once before.

1056
00:54:26.679 --> 00:54:30.000
Right, but not that they're innocent, just that there wasn't

1057
00:54:30.280 --> 00:54:31.519
enough evidence.

1058
00:54:31.639 --> 00:54:34.400
Right to convict them. Yeah. It just it feels to

1059
00:54:34.440 --> 00:54:37.480
me like with the evidence that there was, like with

1060
00:54:37.679 --> 00:54:40.920
the with the fact that the heroin was found in

1061
00:54:41.000 --> 00:54:43.159
his stomach. To me, that is a key thing, Like

1062
00:54:43.199 --> 00:54:46.800
there's no reason if if you're a heroin addict, even

1063
00:54:46.840 --> 00:54:48.960
if you were trying to commit suicide, you wouldn't. You

1064
00:54:48.960 --> 00:54:52.559
wouldn't ingest heroin through eating it or drinking it. Just

1065
00:54:53.280 --> 00:54:55.880
I can't imagine that you would do that. So that

1066
00:54:56.039 --> 00:54:59.800
alone tells me that someone forced him to eat or

1067
00:54:59.840 --> 00:55:02.440
d Caro whin And if that's the case, then it

1068
00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:06.199
had to have been Sandy or and or Rick. The

1069
00:55:06.239 --> 00:55:09.599
other thing about the evidence that makes me believe that

1070
00:55:10.119 --> 00:55:11.880
Rick and Sandy might have had something to do with

1071
00:55:11.880 --> 00:55:15.320
it is the timeline, Like at the very latest, he

1072
00:55:15.360 --> 00:55:18.679
died at two o'clock, and it certainly seems like Sandy

1073
00:55:18.840 --> 00:55:20.920
was home during a lot of that time, and she

1074
00:55:21.079 --> 00:55:23.079
was so vague when she talked to the police about

1075
00:55:23.079 --> 00:55:26.079
her timeline. And the other thing that I just remembered

1076
00:55:26.159 --> 00:55:29.400
is the curtains, the curtains being down in the house

1077
00:55:29.719 --> 00:55:32.920
when the gardener had never seen the curtains down before, Like,

1078
00:55:33.039 --> 00:55:35.719
why would that why would those curtains be down?

1079
00:55:35.800 --> 00:55:37.840
That's funny because the case I'm working on has a

1080
00:55:37.880 --> 00:55:40.679
similar thing with the curtains, like the curtains were always open.

1081
00:55:40.800 --> 00:55:42.880
Mm hmm, yeah, I mean I think things like that

1082
00:55:42.920 --> 00:55:46.920
are really important to point out. We talked about it

1083
00:55:46.960 --> 00:55:48.559
a little bit, but what do you think about the

1084
00:55:48.639 --> 00:55:52.239
Burking theory, Like do you think that is credible or

1085
00:55:52.239 --> 00:55:54.639
do you think it? To me, I'll give you my

1086
00:55:54.639 --> 00:55:56.519
opinion for at day. To me, it sort of like

1087
00:55:56.599 --> 00:55:59.400
misled the jury a little bit, and it was something

1088
00:55:59.480 --> 00:56:01.920
that sounded like, yeah, maybe it could have been, but

1089
00:56:01.960 --> 00:56:04.679
maybe not, and maybe lost a little credibility.

1090
00:56:04.760 --> 00:56:07.360
I think that's what those expert witnesses like to do,

1091
00:56:07.840 --> 00:56:11.280
is just assert insert themselves into the cases and have

1092
00:56:11.519 --> 00:56:14.440
like these opinions that no one's thought of before, because

1093
00:56:14.440 --> 00:56:17.599
there's such a genius there, you know, Sherlock Holmes, like

1094
00:56:17.960 --> 00:56:20.400
I put the pieces together and you didn't.

1095
00:56:20.519 --> 00:56:23.639
And yeah, that's what it feels exactly like to me too,

1096
00:56:23.719 --> 00:56:26.559
Like here these are button marks that I figured it out.

1097
00:56:26.679 --> 00:56:29.519
Yeah, I did a case a long time ago and

1098
00:56:29.559 --> 00:56:34.119
it was took place in the eighteen hundreds. George Smith,

1099
00:56:34.440 --> 00:56:38.519
it might have remember the Bathtub Killer. Yeah, and he

1100
00:56:38.719 --> 00:56:41.519
that's how they thought that he made the women drown

1101
00:56:41.559 --> 00:56:43.719
in the bathtub, that he would, you know, plug their

1102
00:56:43.719 --> 00:56:47.239
nose and then dun't come underneath the wa Yeah. So yeah,

1103
00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:48.639
I don't know.

1104
00:56:48.719 --> 00:56:50.599
I think I think he got a little too clever

1105
00:56:50.719 --> 00:56:52.400
on that. I think I think that ended up really

1106
00:56:52.440 --> 00:56:55.360
hurting them in the second trial, because you know, it's

1107
00:56:55.480 --> 00:56:58.559
very possible that Sandy and Rick killed Ted, but the

1108
00:56:58.599 --> 00:57:01.079
fact that he got up there with this theory that

1109
00:57:01.239 --> 00:57:04.559
was pretty easily disproven. Like if you see the photos

1110
00:57:04.599 --> 00:57:07.480
of the marks on Ted's test, I would not have

1111
00:57:07.599 --> 00:57:09.760
looked at those and said those look like button marks.

1112
00:57:09.800 --> 00:57:12.920
They look like, you know, some a mole or something.

1113
00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:13.199
Right.

1114
00:57:13.679 --> 00:57:15.960
Just a couple of final thoughts on this case. The

1115
00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:18.360
one thing that it makes me mad that Sandy and

1116
00:57:18.440 --> 00:57:23.000
Rick have both gone on and have found success.

1117
00:57:22.639 --> 00:57:26.360
And love and it's always it really bothers and.

1118
00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:28.119
The other thing that bothers me about this case. So

1119
00:57:28.119 --> 00:57:31.239
I had quite a few different sources that I looked

1120
00:57:31.239 --> 00:57:33.960
at to research. There was a dateline episode on the case.

1121
00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:36.000
There was a forty eight Hours episode on the case.

1122
00:57:36.400 --> 00:57:39.079
There was a book on the case. The dateline episode.

1123
00:57:39.079 --> 00:57:43.119
In the forty eight hours episode, they both seemed very

1124
00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:47.400
sympathetic towards Sandy Murphy, like they both came across like

1125
00:57:47.559 --> 00:57:49.199
she was this innocent.

1126
00:57:48.840 --> 00:57:50.840
Person and they thought she was innocent.

1127
00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:53.599
Well, I wouldn't say they stated that as opinion, but

1128
00:57:54.039 --> 00:57:58.000
the tone of it was very much sympathetic toward Sandy,

1129
00:57:58.079 --> 00:57:59.840
and I just felt like those were the first two

1130
00:57:59.840 --> 00:58:03.000
things I watched, and when I watched those, I was like, oh, yeah,

1131
00:58:03.199 --> 00:58:06.440
she she got wrongly accused. And then when I researched

1132
00:58:06.440 --> 00:58:08.480
more and read the book and all this stuff, it

1133
00:58:08.559 --> 00:58:10.800
just felt like, no, I don't think she was wrongly

1134
00:58:10.960 --> 00:58:12.800
accused at all or was it.

1135
00:58:12.719 --> 00:58:16.079
That Rick manipulated her like it was Rick's plan?

1136
00:58:16.960 --> 00:58:19.719
Oh, I mean they didn't really that that didn't really

1137
00:58:19.719 --> 00:58:22.559
come across. I mean they it felt like they were

1138
00:58:22.559 --> 00:58:26.519
of the opinion that Rick and Sandy both were innocent

1139
00:58:26.800 --> 00:58:29.960
and that they when they're when they were acquitted the

1140
00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:32.639
second trial, that that was the right decision.

1141
00:58:33.079 --> 00:58:35.440
Do you think that people were sympathetic to her because

1142
00:58:35.440 --> 00:58:36.519
she was an attractive woman?

1143
00:58:36.880 --> 00:58:37.719
I kind of think so.

1144
00:58:38.159 --> 00:58:38.360
Yeah.

1145
00:58:38.679 --> 00:58:40.239
I mean the fact that she got all this help

1146
00:58:40.239 --> 00:58:42.400
along the way from this guy who was willing to

1147
00:58:42.920 --> 00:58:45.199
hire really expensive lawyers, even if it turned out to

1148
00:58:45.199 --> 00:58:47.920
be alone, at least he put this money out up

1149
00:58:47.960 --> 00:58:50.599
front to help her and to put her up And.

1150
00:58:51.119 --> 00:58:53.760
Yeah, I'm curious if he got that money back or

1151
00:58:54.119 --> 00:58:57.480
his estate, you know, sought the money after his death.

1152
00:58:57.559 --> 00:58:57.760
Yeah.

1153
00:58:57.800 --> 00:58:59.880
In the article I read, she acknowledged that she owed

1154
00:59:00.039 --> 00:59:02.239
the money to him if she wasn't fighting it. But

1155
00:59:02.480 --> 00:59:04.679
at the same time, I don't know if she ever

1156
00:59:04.920 --> 00:59:06.599
I'm guessing she didn't really pay him back.

1157
00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:16.880
Okay, So a few days ago I was listening to

1158
00:59:17.000 --> 00:59:20.039
the Daily podcast, which I listened to some days. It

1159
00:59:20.119 --> 00:59:23.840
was the February twenty fifth episode and the title is

1160
00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:28.239
she fell in love with chat gpt like actual love

1161
00:59:28.639 --> 00:59:32.800
with sex. Oh boy, it was a very interesting episode.

1162
00:59:33.440 --> 00:59:35.480
But what do you think about that? Can you fall

1163
00:59:35.519 --> 00:59:38.280
in love with chat gpt? Let me give you a

1164
00:59:38.320 --> 00:59:42.000
little background occupation. I didn't know that you could make

1165
00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:47.079
chat gpt talk, but you can. And chat gpt really

1166
00:59:47.079 --> 00:59:51.519
it wants to please you and if you tell it

1167
00:59:51.599 --> 00:59:53.960
what you want, it's going to try to you know,

1168
00:59:54.239 --> 00:59:58.920
like be that not person. But you know, so she

1169
01:00:00.199 --> 01:00:02.199
I think she was an immigrant and she lived in

1170
01:00:02.239 --> 01:00:04.679
the United States and she lost her job and then

1171
01:00:04.719 --> 01:00:08.000
she went back to her native country to go to

1172
01:00:08.119 --> 01:00:10.239
nursing school. And then she was married, so she was

1173
01:00:10.280 --> 01:00:13.440
going to come back after she finished nursing school. So

1174
01:00:13.519 --> 01:00:18.280
she was lonely and she just started talking to chat

1175
01:00:18.360 --> 01:00:21.239
cheapt and she kind of said, I want you to

1176
01:00:21.280 --> 01:00:24.159
be assertive but supportive, and she just gave it, like

1177
01:00:24.239 --> 01:00:28.159
all of these things, and she eventually invested in a

1178
01:00:28.239 --> 01:00:32.840
premium account, which is two hundred dollars a month. She

1179
01:00:32.920 --> 01:00:36.760
spent between fifty and sixty hours a week with the

1180
01:00:36.840 --> 01:00:40.559
chat the chatbot Wow, and it helped her live out

1181
01:00:40.599 --> 01:00:43.840
some sexual fantasies that she'd had that her husband wasn't

1182
01:00:43.880 --> 01:00:48.039
really into uh huh, and I was just very strong.

1183
01:00:48.239 --> 01:00:50.480
So she wait, so she was married, so she was like,

1184
01:00:50.559 --> 01:00:52.079
she was married having an affair.

1185
01:00:51.800 --> 01:00:54.639
With and The New York Times talked to her husband

1186
01:00:55.159 --> 01:00:59.039
and he said he didn't consider it cheating, that he

1187
01:00:59.119 --> 01:01:01.599
knew that she was long and he really was okay

1188
01:01:01.639 --> 01:01:02.000
with it.

1189
01:01:02.199 --> 01:01:02.679
Wow.

1190
01:01:03.119 --> 01:01:07.719
She named him Leo, and Leo, like other men, started

1191
01:01:07.760 --> 01:01:13.639
forgetting things like there is only so much that chat GPT,

1192
01:01:13.800 --> 01:01:16.320
I guess can keep in the memory really, so if

1193
01:01:16.360 --> 01:01:19.639
it's I don't know if it's like thirty thousand texts

1194
01:01:19.719 --> 01:01:24.239
or whatever. But after that, Leo started forgetting about, you know,

1195
01:01:24.360 --> 01:01:27.119
like certain things that she wanted him to remember.

1196
01:01:27.679 --> 01:01:29.519
So that's really.

1197
01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:31.599
But I know it's funny, but it's also a little

1198
01:01:31.639 --> 01:01:34.840
sad because she said that she was actually in love

1199
01:01:35.639 --> 01:01:39.719
and then of course Leo has to please her. So

1200
01:01:39.840 --> 01:01:43.239
Leo's like, I love you, and it just started to

1201
01:01:43.280 --> 01:01:43.840
feel weird.

1202
01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:47.159
It is it is. It is funny, but it's also sad,

1203
01:01:47.239 --> 01:01:50.280
like you said, And I am not surprised to hear that,

1204
01:01:50.480 --> 01:01:53.079
And I think more and more we're going to hear

1205
01:01:53.159 --> 01:01:53.800
stories like that.

1206
01:01:53.960 --> 01:01:56.159
Oh definitely, I think, did you know there's something called

1207
01:01:56.280 --> 01:02:00.599
Replica with a K, and it's for teens and it's

1208
01:02:00.679 --> 01:02:05.320
essentially the same thing, like Replica becomes your virtual friends. Really,

1209
01:02:05.480 --> 01:02:08.280
and I mean it is. I mean, I guess there's

1210
01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:10.920
a lot that we're going to learn. Yeah, but you know,

1211
01:02:11.000 --> 01:02:14.280
that's probably not a healthy way for people to have

1212
01:02:14.320 --> 01:02:17.639
their first relationship and then you know, Chat, GPT or

1213
01:02:17.719 --> 01:02:20.159
Replica or whatever it is, becomes kind of an echo

1214
01:02:20.280 --> 01:02:24.719
chamber and to become like this idealized version and really

1215
01:02:24.719 --> 01:02:28.960
a good relationship. Yes, you need you need conflict.

1216
01:02:28.639 --> 01:02:32.079
Yeah, exactly. You shouldn't always just be like what your

1217
01:02:32.079 --> 01:02:34.199
partner wants you to be all the time. So yeah,

1218
01:02:34.400 --> 01:02:37.519
it's disturbing, and I think it will be something we'll

1219
01:02:37.519 --> 01:02:40.320
see more and more of. I don't know how.

1220
01:02:40.519 --> 01:02:42.960
In some ways, I think it's it can be nice

1221
01:02:43.760 --> 01:02:47.400
to have a companion. I'm not sure. I mean, I

1222
01:02:47.440 --> 01:02:48.960
think we're gonna find like you said, we're going to

1223
01:02:49.000 --> 01:02:50.559
find out more and more about this in the next

1224
01:02:50.599 --> 01:02:51.039
few years.

1225
01:02:51.159 --> 01:02:52.880
I know, when I work with you, know, when I

1226
01:02:52.920 --> 01:02:55.719
do things on chat, GPT, when I ask you questions whatever,

1227
01:02:55.800 --> 01:02:58.480
I feel like I have to say like thank you,

1228
01:02:58.559 --> 01:03:00.239
like oh that was great, Like I have to to

1229
01:03:00.519 --> 01:03:01.360
respond to it.

1230
01:03:01.599 --> 01:03:03.679
I do the same thing just sometimes because I want

1231
01:03:03.719 --> 01:03:06.360
to see its response, but I like to also say

1232
01:03:06.400 --> 01:03:13.400
to it, I hope you're free someday. So before we go,

1233
01:03:13.559 --> 01:03:18.960
you love mobster movies and do you have? In this case?

1234
01:03:18.960 --> 01:03:21.440
Obviously made me think of Casino a lot. What are

1235
01:03:21.519 --> 01:03:23.119
some of your favorite mobster movies?

1236
01:03:23.440 --> 01:03:26.119
Well, Casino is definitely up there. I'd say Goodfellas is

1237
01:03:26.159 --> 01:03:31.000
probably my favorite, but I think Godfather and Godfather too

1238
01:03:31.159 --> 01:03:31.960
are right up there.

1239
01:03:32.239 --> 01:03:33.480
Not Godfather Part three.

1240
01:03:33.760 --> 01:03:37.480
Not Godfather Part three, I wish, I wish it was better,

1241
01:03:37.519 --> 01:03:40.480
but no it's not. But yeah, I think Goodfellas to

1242
01:03:40.519 --> 01:03:43.599
me is just so, it's got everything and it Casino

1243
01:03:43.719 --> 01:03:46.840
is really excellent too. I don't know, it's hard to

1244
01:03:46.920 --> 01:03:48.639
choose which one would be my favorite.

1245
01:03:48.840 --> 01:03:50.079
You didn't say Scarface.

1246
01:03:50.519 --> 01:03:52.039
Scarface is good, but.

1247
01:03:51.960 --> 01:03:53.559
It's those are the only ones I know off the

1248
01:03:53.559 --> 01:03:54.119
top of my head.

1249
01:03:54.159 --> 01:03:58.000
Scarface is really over the top, like it's super super violent,

1250
01:03:58.039 --> 01:04:01.039
which doesn't really bother me, but it's just almost too much.

1251
01:04:01.440 --> 01:04:04.639
Brian de Palma directed, and he's just his style of

1252
01:04:04.679 --> 01:04:08.159
directing is just it's just a little bit much at times,

1253
01:04:08.440 --> 01:04:13.559
and many of them Marc Coorsese he directed Casino and Goodfellas,

1254
01:04:13.599 --> 01:04:15.519
and he's he's just brilliant.

1255
01:04:15.559 --> 01:04:18.000
I think, well, you could probably go on about this

1256
01:04:18.039 --> 01:04:20.440
for a while. You love movies, I do.

1257
01:04:21.119 --> 01:04:21.280
Well.

1258
01:04:21.280 --> 01:04:24.400
One last thing before we go, someone messaged me last

1259
01:04:24.480 --> 01:04:28.159
night on Instagram and kind of called us out, saying,

1260
01:04:28.800 --> 01:04:33.199
you know what you do is offensive and it's not entertainment.

1261
01:04:33.400 --> 01:04:36.440
You know, people are struggling and it's not your story

1262
01:04:36.440 --> 01:04:38.280
to tell, and blah blah blah, And I just wanted

1263
01:04:38.280 --> 01:04:41.280
to acknowledge that we hear that. We talk about it

1264
01:04:41.320 --> 01:04:44.679
a lot, but we do our best to respect the victims,

1265
01:04:44.920 --> 01:04:47.599
and we try to be sensitive to family members, so

1266
01:04:48.159 --> 01:04:51.039
we apologize if we are ever offensive to anyone.

1267
01:04:51.639 --> 01:04:54.159
Well, thank you all so much for listening. We truly

1268
01:04:54.280 --> 01:04:55.480
truly appreciate it.

1269
01:04:55.760 --> 01:04:58.760
The only reason there is a podcast is you continue

1270
01:04:58.760 --> 01:05:01.360
to listen and support us. We really do appreciate it.

1271
01:05:01.639 --> 01:05:04.960
Please rate, review, follow and subscribe, find us on social media,

1272
01:05:05.039 --> 01:05:08.639
or send us an email at lovemarykil at gmail dot com.

1273
01:05:08.679 --> 01:05:11.239
And thank you so much again, Samantha for this. Next

1274
01:05:11.360 --> 01:05:14.280
I appreciate it, and until next time, don't kill your

1275
01:05:14.360 --> 01:06:00.559
husband and don't kill your wife.

1276
01:06:01.639 --> 01:06:01.800
Hi.

1277
01:06:01.880 --> 01:06:03.039
I'm rich and I'm Tina.

1278
01:06:03.159 --> 01:06:05.039
And if there's one thing we've learned in over twenty

1279
01:06:05.119 --> 01:06:05.800
years of marriage.

1280
01:06:08.039 --> 01:06:09.199
Sorry I got distracted