Aug. 24, 2026

Simeonette Mapes and Jonathan Crupi

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On the afternoon of July 5th, 2012, New Springville schoolteacher Simeonette Mapes-Crupi was found stabbed to death inside her own Staten Island home, just two days before what would have been her fifth wedding anniversary. Her husband, fellow teacher Jonathan Crupi, told police he'd come home to find the house ransacked. On the surface, it looked like a burglary gone wrong, but the deeper investigators looked, the more the "robbery" theory started to fall apart. What followed was a years-long investigation full of dead ends, a scoured crime scene, and a trail of digital evidence that would eventually crack the case wide open.

Today's snack: Peanut Butter Passport (thanks Carla!)

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When Simonette Mapes, a beloved schoolteacher, was found brutally stabbed

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to death inside her own home. It was initially written

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off as a random burglary gone wrong, but as investigators

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dug deeper into a marriage that looked perfect from the outside,

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they uncovered a web of secrets and lies.

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I'm Tina and I'm Rich. Welcome to Love Mary Kill.

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Hey Tina, Hey Rich. How are you today?

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I am good? How are you?

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I am doing good. I'm a little tired, still recuperating

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from vacation.

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It turns out you come back from a vacation really tired.

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I know I need another vacation, but I'm not complaining.

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It was a nice vacation.

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Yeah, we had a good time.

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Yeah. Did you notice something different about our opening? I

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hope you noticed.

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Well, at first I noticed.

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I wonder if our listeners noticed. So we talked about.

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This, and I'm not sure everyone's going to be super

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duper happy about that.

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We talked about it a few episodes ago, and we

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have decided to change it up after almost four.

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Years, and some people said that's a good idea, and

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other people said, please don't change it. You like it

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the way it is. We are trying to appeal to

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a wider audience, and we're afraid that our other introduction

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might be a little often.

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Yeah, we never want to make light of you know.

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No, everyone knows we take these cases very seriously. Before

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we go any further, I want to give a heartfelt

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thank you to our friends Andy and Jesse at the

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Love Murder podcast. They gave us a shout out on

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a recent episode and I just love them. I think

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they're amazing.

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Yeah, awesome.

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So if you have not listened to Love Murder, please

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go give them a listen the last they.

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Are one last thing before we have a snack. I

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wanted to remind people if you weren't already aware, we

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do have another version of Love Mary Kill called Love

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Mary Kill Just the Facts. So if you're not into

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banter or our snack discussion, I am not. Well, you

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are a perfect candidate then to listen to love to.

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Listen to just the Facts. And it's the same episode.

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We just cut off the opening banter and the end

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before we leave segment and yeah, it's just the facts.

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I do have a snack that I'm very excited about

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because once again, our good friend Carla has sent us

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a really awesome package.

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Okay, let me tell you how kind and generous our

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friend Carla is. She was having surgery, and before she

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was having surgery, she made sure to send us a snack.

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I mean, how thoughtful is that? And she saved your

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behind I know.

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Yeah, we just got back, so I didn't have time

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to go shopping for a snack and I just opened this.

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You haven't seen it yet, I have not seen it.

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I'm super excited about this. So Carla sent us four

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kinds of peanut butter from a company called the Peanut

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Butter Passport.

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Oh my goodness.

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And these flavors sound really interesting. So there is a

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kick how and a gave flavor. There is an Ethiopian

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espresso flavor, a Texas Honey peanut butter flavor, and the

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one I'm most excited about, a Strup waffle peanut butter flavor.

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I really do.

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So that's the one I'm gonna try. Yeah, but let's yeah,

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let's give them a try. Okay, what did you think

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of the Peanut Butter Passport?

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Just kidding? They were delicious, really good, and they tasted

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so fresh. Yeah, you could really taste the peanuts in there.

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Yeah, really really good. So these are They're made in Texas,

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which is where our friend Carla is. If you're interested,

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you can go to peanut Butter passport dot com and

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check them out.

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Thank you so much, Carla. We love you and we

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hope you are healing quickly.

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Today we're going to tell the story of Simonette Mapes

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and Jonathan Croopy. Thank you Leslie for recommending today's case.

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Almost everyone has teachers that they remember as being special.

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The one who saw something in you before you saw

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it in yourself, who showed up for the kids nobody

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else was showing up for, who made a rough year

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feel a little less rough. Teachers like that don't just

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teach a subject. They shape how their students see what's

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possible for their own lives, sometimes in ways that takes

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years to truly appreciate. Simonett Mapes Creepy was that kind

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of teacher. She taught social studies at a high school

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in one of Brooklyn's tougher neighborhoods, the kind of place

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a lot of teachers try to transfer out of, not into,

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but she stayed because she cared. She paid for graduation

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caps and gowns out of her own pocket when families

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couldn't afford them. She started a program that gave prom

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dresses to students who would otherwise never have had one.

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Her students called her Mommy Mapes, and it was a

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nickname she had earned and that she loved. But on

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the afternoon of Thursday, July fifth, twenty twelve, Simonette's husband,

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thirty year old Jonathan Croopy, arrived home to find his

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twenty nine year old wife dead in a pool of

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blood at the bottom of the stairs. He called nine

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one one, barely able to get the words out. I

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just came home. My wife is dead. I think my

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house was robbed. It was just two days shy of

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their fifth wedding anniversary. Simonette's death seemed to make no sense.

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She didn't have enemies. She was universally loved by her students,

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their parents, by people who had known her for years

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and people who had only just met her. And her marriage,

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by every outward appearance, was a strong one. Friends and

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family described Jonathan and Symonette as devoted to each other,

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the kind of couple people pointed to as a model.

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So who would want to hurt her? Was it a

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random act of violence? A burglary gone wrong, or did

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someone target her for reasons unknown. This is the story

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of Symonet Mapes Croupy, the life she built, the students

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she shaped, and the death that no one saw coming

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and no one could explain.

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This one is going to make me cry, isn't it?

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It probably is.

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She sounds like a wonderful person. She was.

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Siminet Mapes was born on September twenty fifth, nineteen eighty two,

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in Albuquerque, New Mexico, the second of two children. Her father,

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John Mapes, was a career member of the US Air Force,

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and the family moved often when she was a kid.

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They relocated to Staten Island, New York in nineteen eighty eight,

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then lived for a stretch at the Fort Hamilton Army

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Base in Brooklyn, then spent two years in Florida before

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coming back to Brooklyn, where she graduated from Fort Hamilton

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High School. Deeply spiritual, Siminet seriously considered devoting her life

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to religion by becoming a nun, but ultimately she chose

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to channel her immense empathy and desire to serve others

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into a career in education. She enrolled in the Educational

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Studies program at the College of Staten Island's Willow Brook

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Campus with the goal of becoming a teacher.

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Do you know anything about her name? That's a very

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unusual name.

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I really don't. It is an unusual name. I know

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her family referred to her as Sissy as a nickname,

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but I don't know where the name Simonette came from.

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It was at college that Simonette met Jonathan Croopy, who

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had also grown up in Brooklyn and was working toward

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the same goal of becoming a teacher. Simonette was immediately

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smitten with Jonathan, telling her mom, Teresa Mapes, that he

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was the one Teresa protested, but you just met him.

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Simonette acknowledged that was true, but she said, sometimes you

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just know. And they did seem like an ideal match.

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They not only shared the same ambitions, but they had

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similar values and a shared sense of humor and playfulness.

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People who spent time with them could see that they

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would be together forever. Jonathan wrote her love letters on

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an almost daily basis. Once they got to know him.

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Simonette's family fell for Jonathan as well. Teresa would later

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say she couldn't have picked a better son in law.

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After finishing college, Symonette and Jonathan started building a life together.

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She got her first teaching job in Brooklyn in two

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thousand and six, teaching social studies. In July two thousand

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and seven, she and Jonathan married. After a couple of

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years bouncing between schools, she landed in two thousand and

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nine at the School for Classics, an academy of thinkers, writers,

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and performers, a high school in the East New York

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section of Brooklyn. She helped Jonathan land a job there

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as well, teaching English right alongside her social studies classes.

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Students genuinely loved both Synonette and Jonathan. He had a

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reputation as a bit of a goofball, a big kid

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in many ways. He would break out in cartoon voices

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in class, and one year he dressed up as Wolverine

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for a school event. He could relate to teenagers in

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a way that many adults couldn't. Simonette was also fun

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in the classroom. If she sensed that students were feeling bored,

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she might break out into song. Part of Your World

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from The Little Mermaid was a favorite. But even more

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than being fun, she became known for her generous spirit

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and her death medication to her students. One year, fifteen

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students in the graduating class couldn't afford caps and gowns,

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so she quietly covered it herself. She ran the girl's

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leadership club, and she founded a program of her own

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called the Fairy Godmother's Project, which supplied prom dresses to

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students who otherwise wouldn't have had one, some who were

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living in shelters, some who didn't have parents in the

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picture at all. Her students called her Mommy Mapes. She

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was the kind of teacher who would notice the kids

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that other adults may have given up on. One student,

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a young man who had been bullied and was ready

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to drop out, later said that Simonette was the one

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who talked him out of it and that her encouragement

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literally changed the trajectory of his life. When researching this case,

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I was just so moved by her generosity. Teachers don't

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make a lot of money, and here she is buying

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caps and gowns for other students and just do it,

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you know, going way over and above.

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So many teachers spend their own money on their students

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and their classroom.

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Outside of school, Symonette and Jonathan developed a full life

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together as well. Simonette volunteered with the American Society for

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Prevention of Cruelty to Animals and was active in the

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Leukemia Foundation. She was also active at Our Lady of

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Pity Roman Catholic Church, which she attended regularly in the

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Bullshead neighborhood of Staten Island. Jonathan had his own hobbies

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that kept him occupied outside of school. He collected high

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end designer sneakers, shoes that could run anywhere from three

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hundred dollars to five hundred dollars a pair, which he

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stockpiled by the dozen on the top floor of their

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new Springville condo, alongside a growing comic book collection. I

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noticed you're shaking your head.

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Well, Simonette is so generous and giving, so selfless me

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and here you have her husband who is building a

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sneaker collection. Living in New York on two teachers' salaries

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must be very challenging.

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Yeah, it is quite a contrast between the two of them,

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for sure. She and Jonathan adopted two dogs. They talked

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about having children, but for now the dogs were enough,

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and every summer, once the summer session of school ended,

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the couple would make a trip to Walt Disney World.

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Their seventh consecutive trip was just around the corner when

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Symonette was killed. Busy and full lives a dedication to

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their students passions, both individually and together, it seemed like

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the ideal marriage.

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In two thousand and nine, Simonette and Jonathan settled into

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a townhouse in the New Springville section of Staten Island.

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Staten Island tends to get overlooked, even by New Yorkers.

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Separated from Manhattan by a ferry ride across the harbor,

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it's the quietest and most suburban of the city's five boroughs,

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a place of single family homes, strip malls, and golf courses.

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Locals have long joked that it's the forgotten Borough, a

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world away from the hustle and bustle most people picture

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when they think of New York City. New Springville, where

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Semonet and Jonathan lived. That image to a tee, a tidy,

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unremarkable residential pocket, where as one neighbor would later put it,

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nothing ever, really happens. It was a sharp contrast to

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the location of the school where they spent their days.

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The School for Classics sat directly across the street from

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the Cypress Hill Housing project, one of the rougher areas

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of Brooklyn, with a lot of gang activity in the area.

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In fact, just two and a half weeks before her death,

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Semonette and Jonathan were walking to their car after school

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when gunfire broke out nearby the duck behind the vehicle

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until it stopped. The next day, Semonette posted about it

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on Facebook, writing that she and Jonathan had survived to

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shootout and thanked God that they were okay. She added

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a message aimed at kids in the area who liked

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to act tougher than they were, writing that the Cypress

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Hill projects are no joke. Simonette's family implored her more

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than once to transfer somewhere safer, but she was devoted

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to the kids at her school. There was nowhere else

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where she thought she could have a bigger impact. While

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Simonette's path to teaching seemed to come easy for her,

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Jonathan's road was much bumpier. He struggled to pass the

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required certification exams, failing multiple times before finally succeeding. This

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was more than just an inconvenience. His struggles to pass

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the exams resulted in Jonathan racking up twenty five thousand

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00:13:26.039 --> 00:13:29.120
dollars in debt, which would hang over the marriage for

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years to come. Then came a second bigger problem. New

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00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:36.519
York City requires public school teachers to complete a master's

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degree within five years of their initial certification in order

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to keep their jobs, so both Jonathan and Simonette enrolled

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00:13:44.679 --> 00:13:48.159
at the College of Staten Island. Semonet sailed through the

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00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:52.840
program and got her master's in adolescent education. Jonathan did not,

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and it wasn't just that he'd fallen behind. It turns

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out that he registered for courses but never actually attended

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a single class. After that first semester, he didn't even

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00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:06.159
bother to register for classes, but he kept up the

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00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:10.039
charade that he was working hard toward a degree. By

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the time of Simonette's death, his failure was coming to

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00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:16.840
a head. His principal had given him an ultimatum, finished

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00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:21.320
the degree or lose the job. On July second, twenty twelve,

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three days before Semonette was killed, she found out the truth.

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Her husband hadn't set foot in a classroom. This was

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a massive betrayal, which put additional financial strain on the marriage.

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00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:37.399
Semonette had even been taking on extra work assignments to

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help pay for his tuition, and now she learned that

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it was all a lie.

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Can you imagine finding that out?

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That's shocking.

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And the fact that he was actingly he was still

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going to classes, just disappearing and coming back, you know, saying, oh,

275
00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:56.159
class was great, just MiG.

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00:14:56.600 --> 00:15:00.200
Soon after learning of Jonathan's deception, Sibbonette spoke with her

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00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:03.399
mom on the phone. She told Teresa about her discovery

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00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:06.320
and said that she was going to confront Jonathan. She

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00:15:06.759 --> 00:15:10.159
wanted answers not only as to why he hadn't been

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00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:14.360
attending classes, but also where had the money gone. On

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00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:17.240
the evening of July fourth, the couple attended a holiday

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00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:20.759
gathering with some friends, but ended up leaving early. People

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00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:24.480
at the party noticed that Simonette seemed upset. Later that night,

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00:15:24.559 --> 00:15:27.480
she called her mother in tears, saying that she didn't

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00:15:27.519 --> 00:15:30.600
feel well. Theresa made her daughter promise that if she

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00:15:30.759 --> 00:15:33.639
wasn't feeling better by the next morning, she'd see a doctor.

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It turned out to be the last conversation the two

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00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:40.799
of them would ever have. The next morning, Thursday, July fifth,

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00:15:40.840 --> 00:15:44.240
twenty twelve, Jonathan left the town house around seven thirty

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00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:46.840
a m. He had a bunch of errands on his agenda,

291
00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:49.679
a stop at school to pick up books and supplies

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00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:52.440
for the summer session. He and Simonette were both teaching,

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00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:56.159
a scheduled car inspection, a stop at a sneaker store,

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00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:58.600
and a plan trip to home Depot by paint for

295
00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:02.879
a bathroom project Semonet him been wanting done. After finishing

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00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:05.519
his other errands, he texted Semonet that he was headed

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00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:08.000
to home Depot, but when he pulled into the parking

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00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:10.679
lot and hadn't heard back from her, he decided to

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00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:13.639
skip it and just had home. He got back to

300
00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:17.159
the townhouse in the early afternoon and found Semonette flying

301
00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:20.000
in a pool of blood. The house was in disarray,

302
00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:24.600
drawers pulled open and furniture disturbed. It had the look

303
00:16:24.639 --> 00:16:27.679
of a robbery. Jonathan called nine one one at one

304
00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:33.080
fifty pm. No one operator. It was emergency. I just

305
00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:33.639
came home.

306
00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:36.000
My wife had said, oh my god, I think one

307
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:38.720
house was robbed. I know you're scared, but what, like,

308
00:16:39.080 --> 00:16:40.720
why do you say she's dead? Like if she did,

309
00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:45.720
Oh my god, he's a giant out of blood. I

310
00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:48.480
should mention that was two parts of the call. There

311
00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:50.440
was a gap in the middle there, but in the

312
00:16:50.440 --> 00:16:53.919
first party sounded somewhat calm, I would say, and then

313
00:16:54.320 --> 00:16:56.840
just like totally freaked out in the second part of

314
00:16:56.879 --> 00:16:59.759
the call. And he takeaways from listening to that.

315
00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:02.480
The one thing that stood out to me was he

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00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:05.960
was saying, my wife is dead, my house has been robbed.

317
00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:08.359
I feel like if I was dead, you wouldn't even

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00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:09.880
mention the house being robbed.

319
00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:11.759
Yeah, that's a really good point.

320
00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:15.000
Officers arrived to find Simonette's body face down on the

321
00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:17.720
main floor of the townhouse, near the bottom of the stairs.

322
00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:20.599
Anne appeared that she had been pushed down the staircase

323
00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:23.720
and then stabbed in the back, neck, and chest. There

324
00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:27.200
were no bullet holes, no shell casings, just a lot

325
00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:31.319
of stab wounds fifteen of them in total. That seemed

326
00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:35.799
highly unusual for a supposed burglary gone wrong. The house

327
00:17:36.039 --> 00:17:39.240
was extremely disheveled. Drawers were pulled out in the kitchen

328
00:17:39.279 --> 00:17:42.119
and bedroom, and dressers had been rifled through. It was

329
00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:44.640
the kind of mess you'd expect from someone tearing through

330
00:17:44.680 --> 00:17:48.119
a home looking for valuables. A sliding glass door at

331
00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:50.519
the back of the townhouse was standing open two or

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00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:53.880
three inches. The only apparent point of entry, since there

333
00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:57.000
was no sign of forest entry anywhere else. But as

334
00:17:57.039 --> 00:18:00.240
investigators processed the scene, it seemed that almost no nothing

335
00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:05.119
of real value was actually missing. Simonette's engagement ring was untouched,

336
00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:08.759
so were the cash, the credit cards, and, notably, given

337
00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:13.599
how much they were worth, Jonathan's sneaker collection. Investigators swabbed

338
00:18:13.640 --> 00:18:16.759
the sliding door, along with knives pulled from the dishwasher

339
00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:19.759
and other items around the house, and sent everything out

340
00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:24.359
for DNA testing. Trace DNA from an unidentified person turned

341
00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:27.400
up on a jewelry box inside the condo, a detail

342
00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:29.920
that on its own kept the door open to a

343
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:34.000
stranger having been inside the home. Even more significantly, a

344
00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:37.640
mixture of two DNA profiles were found on the handle

345
00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:41.319
of the sliding glass door. One belonged to Jonathan, which

346
00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:44.319
wasn't as surprise as he lived there. The other belonged

347
00:18:44.359 --> 00:18:48.359
to an unknown female. It didn't match Simonette or anyone

348
00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:52.839
else close to the couple. Investigators also noticed something on

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00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:56.759
Jonathan himself, a small cut on his right middle finger,

350
00:18:57.319 --> 00:19:00.720
red marks across his left hand and fingers, and a

351
00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:05.119
linear abrasion on his left forearm. When a detective asked

352
00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:07.599
him about it. The same day, he said he'd cut

353
00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:10.039
his hand on a milk crate while collecting books and

354
00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:13.880
materials from his classroom. As far a separate bruise on

355
00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:17.279
his shin, Jonathan had an explanation ready for that too.

356
00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:19.880
He said he'd banged his leg a couple of days

357
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:24.119
earlier while helping someone removed old carpet from a recreational vehicle,

358
00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:28.720
an oddly specific story that investigators filed away without being

359
00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:32.599
able to disprove it outright. So all these wounds and

360
00:19:32.680 --> 00:19:36.680
bruising on him, was he subjected to a body search?

361
00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:40.279
Yeah? I think he voluntarily submitted to a search of

362
00:19:40.279 --> 00:19:40.839
his body.

363
00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:44.680
As the police were processing the scene, words started spreading

364
00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:48.240
that something terrible had happened inside the townhouse on Forest

365
00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:52.119
Hill Road. Family members showed up, creating a chaotic scene

366
00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:56.480
on the front lawn. Overwhelmed with grief, People were crying, screaming,

367
00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:00.400
passing out on the lawn and asking when did this happen?

368
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:03.559
Adding to the chaos, the press showed up as well.

369
00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:09.279
Semonette's uncle, Anthony Casarino, screamed at the gathered reporters, demanding

370
00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:12.119
their turn off their cameras he had to be physically

371
00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:15.599
calmed down by a police officer. What time did Anthony

372
00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:17.680
leave and what time did he return to the condo?

373
00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:21.160
He left the house of the condo around seven thirty am.

374
00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:22.839
He got back He called nine to one one at

375
00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:24.799
one fifty, so I think he got back a couple

376
00:20:24.759 --> 00:20:25.640
of minutes before then.

377
00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:29.519
So a condo here, sometimes a condo can be called

378
00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:33.720
a house. Is this condo like a freestanding condo? Or

379
00:20:33.799 --> 00:20:34.799
is it in a complex?

380
00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:37.519
From what I could tell by looking at Google Maps,

381
00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:39.839
it looks like it's a It's like a house with

382
00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:42.880
two units in it, maybe like a duplex, I think so.

383
00:20:43.720 --> 00:20:46.200
I was just thinking how unlikely it would be to

384
00:20:46.279 --> 00:20:49.039
be robbed during the day if you lived inside a

385
00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:49.799
building with.

386
00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:51.880
Multiple units, right, Yeah, that makes sense.

387
00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:53.759
We'll be back after a break.

388
00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:04.000
In the initial days of the investigation, detectives had to

389
00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:08.119
consider every possibility. Was this a burglary that had turned violent.

390
00:21:08.599 --> 00:21:11.960
Was somebody after Jonathan's sneaker collection, even though it appeared

391
00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:14.640
none had been taken. Did it connect back to the

392
00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:17.960
shooting near the school a couple weeks earlier. Did a

393
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:21.799
gang member see Simonette's Facebook post and decide that she

394
00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:24.359
was a possible witness who needed to be dealt with.

395
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:28.599
Detective Michael Burdick from the New York Police Department's Homicide

396
00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:34.079
Squad took the lead on the investigation, alongside Detective Joseph Metsopolis,

397
00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:37.440
who had been one of the first officers on the scene.

398
00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:41.400
Something about it bothered Burdick from the start. Fifteen stab

399
00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:45.680
wounds would typically point to a crime of passion, something personal,

400
00:21:46.039 --> 00:21:49.000
the kind of violence that comes from rage, not from

401
00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:53.599
a stranger interrupted mid Burglary. Jonathan, for his part, was

402
00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:56.920
interviewed at the one hundred and twenty second precinct less

403
00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:00.640
than two hours after the body was discovered. Urtic said

404
00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:04.240
that he came across as calm and collected, matter of fact,

405
00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:08.960
non emotional, articulate, while Metsopolis described him as looking a

406
00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:12.559
bit like he was in shock. Both were simply describing

407
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:16.319
what they observed. Neither detective could say with any certainty

408
00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:19.640
what it meant. New Springville isn't the kind of place

409
00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:23.400
that people associate with violent crime. The block on Forest

410
00:22:23.480 --> 00:22:26.160
Hill Road sat across the street from a golf course

411
00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:29.400
and was home to a mix of doctors, pharmacists, and

412
00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:33.079
store managers. It was a quiet, well kept Street, where

413
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:36.039
neighbors said they'd never seen so much as a car accident.

414
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:39.000
When words spread that a young school teacher had been

415
00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:42.039
stabbed to death inside her own home, people who lived

416
00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:45.880
nearby described it as something closer to disbelief than fear.

417
00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:49.319
It was surreal, the last thing anyone would expect to

418
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:53.480
happen here. Five days after the murder, Simonette's funeral was

419
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:56.599
held at her church, Our Lady of Pity Roman Catholic

420
00:22:56.720 --> 00:22:59.599
Church in Bullshead, with a Mass at nine thirty in

421
00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:04.200
the morning and burial following at Resurrection Cemetery in Pleasant Plains.

422
00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:08.400
Hundreds of people came. Students from the School for Classics

423
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:11.119
turned out in force, many of them from the toughest

424
00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:15.079
blocks of East New York. Family members later described roughly

425
00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:18.240
fifty members of the Bloods and the Crypts among the mourners,

426
00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:22.079
two gangs that were by definition enemies, who called an

427
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:25.160
informal truce that day out of respect for a teacher

428
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:27.720
who had never treated any of them like the enemy.

429
00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:32.119
Reporters were there too, along with the police, quietly watching

430
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:36.359
the crowd, hoping someone might let something slip. Synonette's uncle,

431
00:23:36.440 --> 00:23:40.920
Nicholas Liverani, spoke to a Staten Island Advance reporter outside,

432
00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:44.079
saying he wanted his niece's killer found and that he

433
00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:48.359
was looking for justice. Her mother, Teresa, was even more direct,

434
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:51.640
vowing to an interviewer that she would find whoever did

435
00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:54.839
this and they would pay. It wouldn't bring her daughter back,

436
00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:57.839
but somewhere Symonette would know that her mother would not

437
00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:02.799
leave any stone unturned in seeking justice. While Simonette's family

438
00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:06.400
had loved Jonathan, the relationship between the Mapes and Croopy

439
00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:11.359
families fractured almost immediately after Symonette's death. In the days

440
00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:13.759
leading up to the funeral, while the two sides of

441
00:24:13.799 --> 00:24:18.720
the family were together making arrangements, Jonathan seemed emotionally distant.

442
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:22.000
He was unable to look any of Symonette's family members

443
00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:25.519
in the eye, and he seemed strangely determined to avoid

444
00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:27.640
being in the same room as the rest of them.

445
00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:31.400
Her uncle said, when we were downstairs, he was upstairs.

446
00:24:31.480 --> 00:24:35.079
When we were upstairs, he was downstairs. At the time,

447
00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:38.119
it seemed like it could have been grief or awkwardness,

448
00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:40.759
or just two families who didn't know how to be

449
00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:43.599
around each other in the worst week of their lives.

450
00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:47.759
There was another thing that struck investigators and Symonette's family

451
00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:51.599
as strange. The day after the murder, Jonathan went to

452
00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:54.920
the Staten Island mall and bought new sneakers and clothes.

453
00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:58.880
A cashier at the Finish Line store there remembered him

454
00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:03.480
well out of nowhere. He volunteered, completely unprompted that his

455
00:25:03.559 --> 00:25:06.720
wife had just been killed. The moment stuck with the

456
00:25:06.759 --> 00:25:11.440
store manager. People process emotions differently, she reasoned, But something

457
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:14.359
about how he had blurted it out to a stranger,

458
00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:17.680
ringing up a pair of sneakers felt very strange to her.

459
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:21.279
After the funeral, the two sides of the family stopped

460
00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:25.839
speaking completely. Over the following days and weeks, detectives went

461
00:25:25.880 --> 00:25:29.920
through Jonathan's account of his July fifth activities piece by piece.

462
00:25:30.519 --> 00:25:33.440
Surveillance video placed him at the school that morning, right

463
00:25:33.480 --> 00:25:36.640
where he said he was, and a time stamped receipt

464
00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:40.039
backed up his stop to get the car inspected. So far,

465
00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:44.279
his alibi held up, but two things didn't add up. First,

466
00:25:44.359 --> 00:25:46.759
the books that he said he needed for summer school

467
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:50.000
had already been moved out of his classroom days earlier.

468
00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:53.640
By all accounts, Simonett already had all the books and

469
00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:57.480
materials she needed to teach her summer classes, so there

470
00:25:57.519 --> 00:26:01.119
was no real reason for that particular stop up. Second,

471
00:26:01.400 --> 00:26:03.960
nobody could find any record that he had actually gone

472
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:07.039
to home depot. You remember. His story was that he

473
00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:10.000
had pulled into the parking lot and seeing that Simonette

474
00:26:10.119 --> 00:26:13.559
hadn't texted him back about the painting project, he decided

475
00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:16.279
not to go in and just went home instead. But

476
00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:19.559
a search through the parking lot surveillance footage didn't turn

477
00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:22.319
up any sign of his car. That part of his

478
00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:24.599
day had a hole in it, and for the moment,

479
00:26:24.839 --> 00:26:29.119
investigators couldn't say what filled it. Weeks went by without

480
00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:33.079
a lot of progress in the investigation. Simonette's mother expressed

481
00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:36.839
her mounting frustration, telling reporters, I'm leaving it in their

482
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:39.079
hands and I hope to God they find this son

483
00:26:39.119 --> 00:26:42.680
of a bitch. Investigators decided to dig deeper into the

484
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:46.240
couple's electronic devices, and that's when they got the first

485
00:26:46.279 --> 00:26:49.920
big break in the case. In digging through records pulled

486
00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:54.079
from Symonette's phone, they noticed something curious in her contacts list,

487
00:26:54.599 --> 00:26:58.440
an entry saved simply as woman with no other name

488
00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:01.880
attached to it, detectives did some searching to find out

489
00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:04.880
who the number belonged to. That led them to an

490
00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:09.920
advertisement on the classified ad website called Backpage. The familiar

491
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:13.480
with Backpage no a. Backpage had started out as an

492
00:27:13.559 --> 00:27:16.839
ordinary classified site, the kind of place that people went

493
00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:20.519
to sell furniture or post apartment listings, kind of similar

494
00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:24.880
to Craigslist. But after Craigslist shut down its adult services

495
00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:28.359
section in twenty ten under pressure from law enforcement, a

496
00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:31.680
lot of that traffic migrated over to Backpage, and its

497
00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:34.799
adult ads section grew into one of the largest of

498
00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:37.799
its kind on the Internet. For years, it was also

499
00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:40.519
one of the most heavily scrutinized corners of the web,

500
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:44.480
with federal and state investigators across the country treating it

501
00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:47.559
as a go to resource. The site would eventually be

502
00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:50.839
seized and shut down by federal authorities in twenty eighteen.

503
00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:55.680
Its founders were indicted on charges related to facilitating prostitution,

504
00:27:56.240 --> 00:27:58.599
but in the summer of twenty twelve it was still

505
00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:02.839
very much in operation. The listing they found on Backpage,

506
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:06.319
which was tied to the mystery phone number in Simonette's contacts,

507
00:28:06.519 --> 00:28:09.480
belonged to a sex worker who advertised under the name

508
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:13.519
Miss Pumpkin or ad described herself as a twenty three

509
00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:17.440
year old escort with a curvy body type. Detectives knew

510
00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:20.000
they would need to talk to Miss Pumpkin, but they

511
00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:23.680
were worried about scaring her away. So the detectives booked

512
00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:26.279
a session with her through the website, posing as a

513
00:28:26.279 --> 00:28:29.279
typical client, and arranged to meet her at the Staten

514
00:28:29.319 --> 00:28:33.799
Island Inn. Detectives Burdick and Cosenza showed up and immediately

515
00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:38.519
identified themselves as police. They needn't have worried about scaring her.

516
00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:42.640
Miss Pumpkin was fully cooperative from the start. She told

517
00:28:42.680 --> 00:28:45.599
them that she had never heard the name Simonette mates Croopy,

518
00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:48.759
and she had never heard of Jonathan Croopy either, not

519
00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:51.799
until they described him and showed her a photo. That is,

520
00:28:52.279 --> 00:28:56.160
then she recognized him instantly, But she knew him as Mike.

521
00:28:56.839 --> 00:29:00.119
She told detectives he was a longtime regular, some one

522
00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:02.640
who she had been seeing for years at a rate

523
00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:06.119
of three hundred dollars an hour. Now, that might explain

524
00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:09.000
where the money went that Jonathan was supposed to be

525
00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:09.960
using for tuition.

526
00:29:10.599 --> 00:29:13.240
Holy cow, what a dirt bag, they.

527
00:29:13.240 --> 00:29:15.920
Asked, When she had last seen him, and her answer

528
00:29:16.039 --> 00:29:19.880
floored the detectives. It was July fifth, she said, the

529
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:22.440
same day that Jonathan Croupy had claimed to be out

530
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:26.160
running errands before coming home to discover his wife's body

531
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:29.680
on the floor of their townhouse. Ms Pumpkins said that

532
00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:34.200
normally Jonathan would schedule their dates far in advance, sometimes weeks,

533
00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:37.000
but on this occasion, he had called her the same

534
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:40.720
day and insisted on meeting her right away. She met

535
00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:43.960
him at a nearby motel. It didn't take long for

536
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:47.640
detectives to realize what that meant the exact window when

537
00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:50.359
Jonathan claimed he had been standing in a home depot

538
00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:53.200
parking lot. The one part of his alibi nobody could

539
00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:56.680
confirm was the same time period he had actually spent

540
00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:01.440
with the woman known as MS. Pumpkin. A hunch, investigators

541
00:30:01.480 --> 00:30:05.200
tested ms pumpkins DNA and compared it to the unidentified

542
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:09.200
female profile recovered from the sliding glass door. It was

543
00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:13.079
a match that raised an obvious question. Had she been

544
00:30:13.160 --> 00:30:16.920
inside the house herself and was she involved in Simonette's murder.

545
00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:20.559
She admitted that she had met Jonathan at his house before,

546
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:23.680
but not on July fifth. In fact, it had been

547
00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:26.319
over a year since she had been there, and her

548
00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:30.880
cell phone records supported her story. Detectives concluded that her

549
00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:34.720
DNA had simply traveled home on Jonathan after their encounter

550
00:30:35.160 --> 00:30:37.839
and transferred onto the door when he touched it. Later.

551
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:42.079
She was cleared as a suspect but remained an important witness.

552
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:44.599
It's been a while since we talked about this, but

553
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:48.960
transferred DNA. The DNA testing has gotten so good and

554
00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:52.400
so accurate that when they test for DNA, it's very

555
00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:56.200
possible that you know, you touched something, then touched something else,

556
00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:59.160
and it just ends up, you know, getting there through

557
00:30:59.200 --> 00:30:59.920
indirect content.

558
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:00.720
Yeah.

559
00:31:01.599 --> 00:31:05.759
Ms Pumpkin gave investigators proof that Simonett and Jonathan Croopy's

560
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:08.880
marriage wasn't what it looked like from the outside. It

561
00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:11.359
was also proof that he had lied to police about

562
00:31:11.359 --> 00:31:14.880
exactly where he was before discovering his wife's body.

563
00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:19.680
It was powerful evidence, but still wasn't quite what detectives needed.

564
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:23.000
In some ways, it helped Jonathan because now his whereabouts

565
00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:26.000
could be fully accounted for from the time he left

566
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:29.400
that townhouse at seven thirty am on July fifth until

567
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:33.920
he came home around one forty five pm. Detectives decided

568
00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:37.279
to go back and examine the crime scene again. They'd

569
00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:41.440
kept the townhouse sealed off since July fifth, preserved exactly

570
00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:44.359
as it was on the day of the murder. This time,

571
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:48.039
they discovered a green shoulder bag shoved out of sight

572
00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:51.000
in a closet on the main floor, which contained a

573
00:31:51.079 --> 00:31:54.880
laptop they hadn't discovered during their initial processing of the

574
00:31:54.920 --> 00:31:58.839
crime scene. This finding was critical for two reasons. One

575
00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:01.920
was what they found on the laptop itself, which we'll

576
00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:05.039
talk about in a minute, but perhaps more importantly, in

577
00:32:05.079 --> 00:32:08.759
reviewing the surveillance footage of Jonathan from that day, they

578
00:32:08.839 --> 00:32:11.480
saw that he had the bag with him while he

579
00:32:11.599 --> 00:32:15.519
was out running errands. That was a problem because Simonette's

580
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:18.599
body was found directly in front of the closet containing

581
00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:21.640
the green bag. Jonathan must have had the bag with

582
00:32:21.720 --> 00:32:24.240
him when he came home, which meant that he had

583
00:32:24.279 --> 00:32:27.200
to step over his wife's body to shove the bag

584
00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:30.400
into the corner of the closet before calling nine one one.

585
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:33.640
It didn't seem like something an innocent man would do.

586
00:32:34.359 --> 00:32:38.519
On the laptop, forensic examiners found incriminating search terms from

587
00:32:38.559 --> 00:32:41.599
the months leading up to the murder. How to slit

588
00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:45.640
a throat, what destroys DNA, how to clean up a

589
00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:50.559
crime scene. One search in particular, stopped investigator's cold, given

590
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:54.799
exactly how Simonette had died. Does a fall actually break

591
00:32:54.880 --> 00:32:58.440
someone's back? Symonette had been pushed down a flight of

592
00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:02.480
stairs before she was stabbed. The green bag yielded even

593
00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:06.440
more compelling evidence. Alongside the laptop was a second phone,

594
00:33:06.680 --> 00:33:10.039
a disposable, prepaid device that he'd used to call Miss

595
00:33:10.119 --> 00:33:13.720
Pumpkin on the day of Simonet's death and to arrange

596
00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:18.000
encounters with other sex workers over the years. Records from

597
00:33:18.079 --> 00:33:22.920
that phone showed ten calls to sex workers On July fifth.

598
00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:26.960
Alone called ten sex workers of the day his wife

599
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:30.400
was found, Oh my god, murdered. I wanted to talk

600
00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:33.279
just for a minute about the discovery of this green bag.

601
00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:35.559
So I don't know the exact date when they did

602
00:33:35.599 --> 00:33:38.240
this second search of the condo, but it was I

603
00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:41.640
believe it was weeks after her death, maybe even a

604
00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:43.559
couple of months after her death, So.

605
00:33:43.480 --> 00:33:45.799
They were holding the condo for that long.

606
00:33:46.160 --> 00:33:49.079
Yeah, So I think they kind of screwed up by

607
00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:51.680
not finding it on the first search, right, that would

608
00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:53.920
be an important piece of evidence, and I'm sure it

609
00:33:53.960 --> 00:33:56.640
was tucked away in a closet, you know, maybe hidden

610
00:33:56.759 --> 00:33:58.519
a little bit, But the fact that they didn't find

611
00:33:58.559 --> 00:34:01.400
it on the first search a little concerning. But the

612
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:04.720
fact that they preserved this crime scene for that long

613
00:34:05.319 --> 00:34:08.280
surprised me as well. Yeah, and it's really fortunate that

614
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:10.360
they did, because otherwise, you know, if they had let

615
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:13.199
Jonathan back in, who knows what might have happened.

616
00:34:13.239 --> 00:34:16.079
Christ he wouldn't have snuck back in and taken the bag.

617
00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:17.039
Yeah.

618
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:20.519
Piecing it together with what Theresa had already told them

619
00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:23.639
about that tearful phone call in the night of July fourth,

620
00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:28.440
detectives believed they understood what had happened. Simonette had confronted

621
00:34:28.480 --> 00:34:32.400
her husband first about the master's degree, and they suspected

622
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:36.119
about the money and the woman whose number she had discovered,

623
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:39.719
and it had ended in violence. That still left the

624
00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:42.559
question of how Jonathan could have done it, since he

625
00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:45.719
had an alibi from seven thirty am until the time

626
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:48.480
he called nine one one. But by that time, the

627
00:34:48.519 --> 00:34:52.159
Medical Examiner's office had concluded that Semonette's time of death

628
00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:56.199
was likely before seven thirty am, so it seemed that

629
00:34:56.320 --> 00:35:00.239
Jonathan had pushed Simonette down the stairs earlier that more morning,

630
00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:03.840
brutally stabbed her fifteen times, and then gone about his

631
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:07.400
day running errands and meeting up with Miss Pumpkin for sex.

632
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:11.599
So obviously this is already disturbing enough, you know, thinking

633
00:35:11.599 --> 00:35:14.079
what Jonathan did to his wife, but the fact that

634
00:35:14.119 --> 00:35:17.719
he killed her that morning and then is out calling

635
00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:21.039
sex workers and meeting up with Miss Pumpkin to have

636
00:35:21.480 --> 00:35:24.920
an encounter with her, it's just so so disturbing.

637
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:29.000
For four months after the murder, Jonathan Croopy lived at

638
00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:33.159
his parents' house in the Dyker Heights section of Brooklyn. Publicly,

639
00:35:33.199 --> 00:35:36.360
he gave almost no comment beyond telling one reporter who

640
00:35:36.440 --> 00:35:38.559
came to the door that he had nothing to say,

641
00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:42.280
and November thirteen to twenty twelve, police arrested him and

642
00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:45.679
charged him with second degree murder and criminal possession of

643
00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:49.400
a weapon. The criminal complaint alleged he'd stabbed his wife

644
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:52.239
early on the morning of July fifth inside their New

645
00:35:52.280 --> 00:35:56.760
Springville condominium. The day after his arrest, Jonathan was escorted

646
00:35:56.800 --> 00:35:59.639
from the one hundred and twentieth Precinct to face a

647
00:35:59.719 --> 00:36:03.639
rain in Staten Island Criminal Court, wearing a bright yellow

648
00:36:03.719 --> 00:36:07.039
jacket a green shirt and black pants. He walked past

649
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:11.199
a crowd that included some of Semonette's relatives and former students.

650
00:36:11.559 --> 00:36:14.320
Several jeered at him as he passed, yelling things like

651
00:36:14.679 --> 00:36:19.280
piece of crap, that's too generous. During the arraignment, Jonathan's

652
00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:22.880
lawyer asked the judge for protective custody and medical attention

653
00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:25.840
for Jonathan, saying that his client was suffering from high

654
00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:30.639
blood pressure. The request elicited derisive laughter from Semonette's family

655
00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:33.559
members in the gallery. One man was ejected from the

656
00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:37.480
courtroom after shouting an insult and being caught taking photos

657
00:36:37.639 --> 00:36:42.199
with his phone. Jonathan was held without bail. His attorney,

658
00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:46.679
Mario Galucci, told reporters his client was innocent and distraught

659
00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:50.199
over the loss of his wife. Teresa Mapes had her

660
00:36:50.239 --> 00:36:53.119
own reaction to the arrest, one that had been building

661
00:36:53.159 --> 00:36:56.039
for four months. She called her son in law a

662
00:36:56.079 --> 00:36:59.599
soulless demon and pointed out that in all that time,

663
00:36:59.719 --> 00:37:02.920
he had never once reached out to her, never called

664
00:37:02.920 --> 00:37:05.480
to say he hadn't done it, never offered so much

665
00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:07.639
as a word. In his own defense to the woman

666
00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:10.760
who had once said that she couldn't have picked a

667
00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:14.239
better son, in law herself. At the formal arraignment on

668
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:17.880
the grand jury indictment the following month, Jonathan entered a

669
00:37:17.960 --> 00:37:21.199
not guilty plea through his lawyer and made no statement

670
00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:24.760
of his own. The case then sat for years while

671
00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:28.000
pretrial motions worked their way through the courts. The most

672
00:37:28.039 --> 00:37:31.599
significant of those involved a defense challenge to the warrants

673
00:37:31.639 --> 00:37:36.800
investigators had used to search Jonathan's home, computers, vehicles, and phones.

674
00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:41.079
His attorney argued that some of the warrants contained address errors.

675
00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:45.400
One listed one four four six Forest Hill Road, not

676
00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:50.519
one four four six Dash one, which was the actual address.

677
00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:54.760
Another listed Richmond Hill Road as the street name. They

678
00:37:54.920 --> 00:38:00.400
argued that the mistakes should have invalidated everything seized under them. Please.

679
00:38:01.159 --> 00:38:04.960
In April twenty fifteen, the State Supreme Court disagreed, ruling

680
00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:08.800
that the heirs were purely typographical errors. Given how obviously

681
00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:12.519
the couple's home swarmed with police, with Simonette's body still

682
00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:15.880
visible through the front door, was the intented location of

683
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:20.000
every search, it was one more procedural hurdle cleared on

684
00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:23.679
the long road to trial for Simonette's family. Those years

685
00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:27.440
of motions and delays were a painful ordeal her uncle,

686
00:38:27.639 --> 00:38:31.320
Nicholas Laverani put words to the exhaustion the whole family

687
00:38:31.400 --> 00:38:34.039
was feeling when he told a reporter, there are no

688
00:38:34.280 --> 00:38:38.440
winners in this situation. We'll be back after a break.

689
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:49.519
The trial finally began in June of twenty fifteen, nearly

690
00:38:49.559 --> 00:38:54.400
three years after Simonette's death. Assistant District attorneys Wanda di'alla

691
00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:59.840
vera and Guy Tartaniko led the prosecution. Mario Galuti represented Jonathan.

692
00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:03.800
The two sides had faced off in several homicide trials before.

693
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:07.559
During jury selection, Galuchi pushed for a panel with more

694
00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:09.960
men than women on it, on the theory that a

695
00:39:10.039 --> 00:39:13.639
male jur would be more likely to understand and forgive

696
00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:16.679
a husband lying to police to hide an affair with

697
00:39:16.719 --> 00:39:20.320
a sex worker, even if that same juror wouldn't excuse

698
00:39:20.360 --> 00:39:23.719
a lie told to Hede a murder. The prosecution's case

699
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:28.599
was almost entirely circumstantial. Investigators had not found the murder weapon,

700
00:39:28.760 --> 00:39:31.599
they had no eye witness, and there was no direct

701
00:39:31.639 --> 00:39:35.360
forensic link placing a knife in Jonathan's hand. So the

702
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:39.400
prosecutors built their case around motive, a marriage crumbling under

703
00:39:39.400 --> 00:39:42.440
the weight of infidelity, debt, and a lie about a

704
00:39:42.440 --> 00:39:45.719
master's degree that was about to cost Jonathan his job.

705
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:49.239
They reminded jurors that nothing of real value had been

706
00:39:49.239 --> 00:39:53.159
taken from a house supposedly ransacked by a burglar. The

707
00:39:53.199 --> 00:39:55.840
woman known as Miss Pumpkin took the stand under her

708
00:39:55.880 --> 00:39:59.280
real name, which has not been disclosed, and testified to

709
00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:02.440
the same account that she had given detectives years earlier,

710
00:40:02.920 --> 00:40:06.920
the standing arrangement, the alias Mike, and the July fifth

711
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:09.760
phone call that pulled her into a motel room during

712
00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:12.320
the time that Jonathan claimed to be running an errand

713
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:17.079
at home depot. The prosecutor, Wanda Diallavera, later noted that Ms.

714
00:40:17.119 --> 00:40:20.800
Pumpkins surprised the courtroom by being quote a lovely woman,

715
00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:25.159
very pleasant, very well put together, and obviously educated, shattering

716
00:40:25.159 --> 00:40:29.000
the stereotype of sex workers and making her a highly credible,

717
00:40:29.320 --> 00:40:31.400
devastating witness for the prosecution.

718
00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:35.280
I guess I don't love how the prosecutor is describing

719
00:40:35.320 --> 00:40:38.599
Miss Pumpkin here, like, why wouldn't she be a lovely woman?

720
00:40:39.280 --> 00:40:42.880
Yeah? I think that is absolutely a fair comment. Detectives

721
00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:46.480
walked the jury through the laptop searches, the disposable phone,

722
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:50.400
and the cell tower records. Detective Michael Cosenza, who had

723
00:40:50.440 --> 00:40:54.480
examined Jonathan's work issued laptop, testified that the machine had

724
00:40:54.519 --> 00:40:57.719
been used for more than sixty thousand Internet searches over

725
00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:02.239
the years. Investigators reviewed everything from sneaker releases to hip

726
00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:06.599
hop message boards to comic book forums. Under cross examination,

727
00:41:06.800 --> 00:41:09.840
Galucchi pressed him to acknowledge that the handful of searches

728
00:41:09.880 --> 00:41:13.320
about killing methods and DNA were a tiny fraction of

729
00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:16.840
the total. Cosenza didn't dispute the math, but he also

730
00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:20.840
wouldn't concede that the point mattered. Investigators, he said, were

731
00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:25.000
focused on what those particular searches showed about intent, not

732
00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:28.599
on what percentage of the browsing history they represented. I

733
00:41:28.599 --> 00:41:31.159
feel like the defense was kind of grasping its straws here.

734
00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:33.960
They're basically saying, well, he only searched a few searches

735
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:36.559
about how to kill someone, and he had all these others, Like,

736
00:41:37.119 --> 00:41:41.079
so what does that matter? The defense introduced an alternate

737
00:41:41.159 --> 00:41:46.159
explanation for the incriminating internet searches. Galucci argued that Jonathan

738
00:41:46.199 --> 00:41:49.239
had been teaching Macbeth to his students that year, and

739
00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:54.079
that queries like how to slit a Throat reflected classroom research,

740
00:41:54.320 --> 00:41:57.960
not premeditation. I'm not quite sure why he would search

741
00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:00.480
for what destroys DNA, because I don't think they had

742
00:42:00.559 --> 00:42:05.000
DNA testing in Macbeth. But he also pointed the jury

743
00:42:05.079 --> 00:42:08.679
back toward that trace DNA recovered from the jewelry box

744
00:42:08.719 --> 00:42:12.719
inside the condo, DNA that had never been matched to anyone,

745
00:42:13.239 --> 00:42:15.880
arguing that it was proof that an intruder had been

746
00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:19.320
in the house and that investigators had simply stopped looking

747
00:42:19.400 --> 00:42:22.480
once they had settled on Jonathan as their suspect. How

748
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:25.079
much do you think if you searched on random objects

749
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:28.960
in our house, unknown DNA would show up on things.

750
00:42:29.679 --> 00:42:33.639
I don't know, but finding unidentified DNA on a jewelry

751
00:42:33.639 --> 00:42:36.800
box is kind of surprising, because certain areas of your home,

752
00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:39.679
like your guest bathroom, for example, you would expect to

753
00:42:39.679 --> 00:42:44.199
find unknown DNA possibly, but not in your private quarters.

754
00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:47.559
Yeah. I think that's probably true, although again, with the

755
00:42:48.159 --> 00:42:51.920
quality of DNA testing nowadays, DNA can get transferred from

756
00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:55.159
one person to another so easily that I truly wonder

757
00:42:55.239 --> 00:42:57.159
how common it would be just to take a random

758
00:42:57.199 --> 00:43:00.719
object in someone's home and find, you know, someone's unknown

759
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:01.360
DNA on it.

760
00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:03.000
Well, I think we need to point out here that

761
00:43:03.159 --> 00:43:06.840
unknown DNA doesn't mean that it's unknown DNA. Sometimes it

762
00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:10.400
means that it's it's not the best quality DNA, so

763
00:43:10.519 --> 00:43:11.880
it can't be identified.

764
00:43:12.519 --> 00:43:16.840
Right, Yeah, that's true too. Jonathan's defense attorney also challenged

765
00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:20.519
the medical examiner's estimated time of death. If the murder

766
00:43:20.519 --> 00:43:23.000
took place any later than seven point thirty that morning,

767
00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:26.920
that would have left Jonathan's tightly documented schedule of errands

768
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:30.119
and his rendezvous with a sex worker no real time

769
00:43:30.199 --> 00:43:33.599
to commit the murder at all. Finally, the defense worked

770
00:43:33.639 --> 00:43:37.000
to reframe the physical evidence found on Jonathan's body the

771
00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:39.559
day of the murder. The cut on his finger, the

772
00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:42.639
abrasions on his hand and shin. They said they were

773
00:43:42.639 --> 00:43:46.280
all consistent with his own explanation a minor accident while

774
00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:50.400
boxing up classroom materials, rather than a struggle. None of

775
00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:53.679
it moved the jury. After five weeks of testimony, they

776
00:43:53.719 --> 00:43:57.400
deliberated for less than two hours before finding Jonathan Creepy

777
00:43:57.519 --> 00:44:01.400
guilty of second degree murder. By the time the verdict

778
00:44:01.480 --> 00:44:04.360
was read, Simonette's family had been waiting more than three

779
00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:08.320
years for justice. Simonette's mother had said for years that

780
00:44:08.440 --> 00:44:11.840
she wouldn't rest until this moment came. Now that it had,

781
00:44:11.920 --> 00:44:15.840
there was little celebration in it, just quiet, exhausted relief.

782
00:44:16.360 --> 00:44:19.639
At sentencing on September twenty third, twenty fifteen, in a

783
00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:24.239
packed Saint George courtroom, Symonette's father, John Mapes, delivered an

784
00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:29.000
emotionally charged victim impact statement. Fighting back tears, he spoke

785
00:44:29.079 --> 00:44:33.239
movingly of the relentless pain, sorrow, and heartbreak that his

786
00:44:33.320 --> 00:44:36.960
family endured every single day since his daughter's brutal murder.

787
00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:40.760
While he spoke, a handcuffed Jonathan Croopy sat at the

788
00:44:40.760 --> 00:44:45.800
defense table, looking straight ahead without making eye contact. Jonathan

789
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:49.559
stood and read from his own handwritten statement. He apologized

790
00:44:49.559 --> 00:44:53.039
for lying, He apologized for cheating on his wife, and

791
00:44:53.159 --> 00:44:55.800
he apologized to his parents for having to sit through

792
00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:59.880
a trial in which his infidelities were recounted in exhaustive,

793
00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:03.920
humiliating detail. But he stopped short of the one apology

794
00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:06.920
everyone in the courtroom was waiting for. I did not

795
00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:10.000
kill her, he told the judge. I am an innocent man.

796
00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:14.559
Justice Mario Mattei wasn't moved. He told Croopy that the

797
00:45:14.599 --> 00:45:17.320
evidence of his guilt was every bit as powerful as

798
00:45:17.320 --> 00:45:20.400
his total lack of remorse. He called the killing a

799
00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:23.639
selfish act committed against a woman who had done nothing

800
00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:26.920
but bring joy and inspiration to the people around her.

801
00:45:27.400 --> 00:45:31.119
He handed down the maximum sentence available, twenty five years

802
00:45:31.159 --> 00:45:35.000
to life. Acting District Attorney Daniel Master said in a

803
00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:38.239
statement that the sentence delivered just punishment for such a

804
00:45:38.239 --> 00:45:43.039
horrific crime. Outside the courthouse, Nicholas Liverani said the family

805
00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:46.760
had watched the proceedings closely. They were happy with the outcome,

806
00:45:46.920 --> 00:45:50.119
but he emphasized that no sentence could undo what had

807
00:45:50.119 --> 00:45:54.800
been taken from them. Galucci, still representing his client at sentencing,

808
00:45:55.159 --> 00:45:59.280
told reporters afterward that Jonathan remained heartbroken to imagine that

809
00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:02.519
he was even considered a suspect, and that he continued

810
00:46:02.519 --> 00:46:06.360
to maintain his innocence. Whatever the jury and the judge believed.

811
00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:11.039
Jonathan's lawyer was not walking that position back regardless, Jonathan

812
00:46:11.159 --> 00:46:13.800
was led away in handcuffs to serve a quarter century

813
00:46:13.840 --> 00:46:17.960
or more behind bars. Jonathan Croopy didn't stop fighting the

814
00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:21.880
conviction after his sentencing. He appealed, arguing, among other things,

815
00:46:21.920 --> 00:46:24.920
that the search warrants used to seize his devices had

816
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:28.480
been improperly broad, and that the trial judge had wrongly

817
00:46:28.519 --> 00:46:31.639
limited his lawyer's ability to cross examine one of the

818
00:46:31.639 --> 00:46:35.880
cases law enforcement witnesses about an unrelated civil lawsuit that

819
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:40.360
might have undercut the officer's credibility. In May twenty nineteen,

820
00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:45.079
New York's Appellate Division rejected both arguments and affirmed the conviction,

821
00:46:45.639 --> 00:46:49.199
finding that the warrants were supported by sufficient probable cause

822
00:46:49.559 --> 00:46:52.440
and that the trial court had acted within its discretion.

823
00:46:53.239 --> 00:46:56.760
A few years later, in twenty twenty three, Jonathan petitioned

824
00:46:56.800 --> 00:47:00.000
the same court again, this time claiming his appellate aturne

825
00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:03.719
Erny had been ineffective the first time around. That appeal

826
00:47:03.880 --> 00:47:08.440
was also denied. Jonathan Croopy, now forty four, is incarcerated

827
00:47:08.480 --> 00:47:13.000
at Clinton Correctional Facility, a maximum security prison in dan Mora,

828
00:47:13.119 --> 00:47:16.559
New York, near the Canadian border. Under the terms of

829
00:47:16.599 --> 00:47:19.480
his sentence, he won't be eligible for parole until twenty

830
00:47:19.599 --> 00:47:22.960
thirty seven, when he will be fifty two, which still

831
00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:27.599
seems very young. In the years since her death, Simonette's

832
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:29.760
family has worked hard to make sure that she is

833
00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:32.719
remembered for the life that she lived, not just the

834
00:47:32.719 --> 00:47:35.840
way it ended. Just ten weeks after the murder, with

835
00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:40.480
the case still unsolved, her parents launched Sissy's Angels, named

836
00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:44.920
for Simonette's family nickname. It started with a memorial motorcycle

837
00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:48.400
ride that crossed the Verizano Bridge from Staten Island to

838
00:47:48.519 --> 00:47:52.559
Fort Hamilton in Brooklyn, one of Simonette's favorite places. What

839
00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:55.760
began as a single tribute ride grew into a registered

840
00:47:55.800 --> 00:48:00.599
nonprofit that today supports victims of domestic violence regardless of

841
00:48:00.639 --> 00:48:05.440
age or gender, offering shelter, clothing, funding, legal guidance, and

842
00:48:05.519 --> 00:48:09.639
scholarships to high school students, along with holiday food baskets

843
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:14.000
and free babysitting services for military families at Fort Hamilton.

844
00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:17.960
In September twenty fourteen, the city co named the corner

845
00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:21.119
of Forest Hill Road and Travis Avenue in New Springville

846
00:48:21.519 --> 00:48:26.119
Symonet mapes Way. Family, friends, and former colleagues gathered for

847
00:48:26.199 --> 00:48:30.679
the unveiling. A representative from the Teachers Union, Donna Coppola,

848
00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:34.199
spoke about the enormous impact that Simonet had on both

849
00:48:34.239 --> 00:48:38.880
her colleagues and her students. Her uncle, Frank Liverani, described

850
00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:41.239
how she used to pay for things to help students

851
00:48:41.320 --> 00:48:45.239
quietly out of her own pocket, without any fuss. By

852
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:48.800
twenty fifteen, Teresa had spent eleven years working as a

853
00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:52.400
security assistant at the Department of Energy Services on the

854
00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:55.920
Fort Hamilton Army Base in Brooklyn, the same base where

855
00:48:55.960 --> 00:48:59.719
Simonette had once lived as a kid, and Teresa folded

856
00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:03.400
that connection into her nonprofit's work, running a thrift shop

857
00:49:03.480 --> 00:49:08.599
and providing babysitting services there for military families at no charge.

858
00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:12.800
In March twenty fifteen, the Staten Island Advance named Teresa

859
00:49:12.880 --> 00:49:17.320
the Burrough's Top inspirational Islander for that work. She told

860
00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:21.280
the newspaper quote, I am overwhelmed and shocked and so happy.

861
00:49:21.840 --> 00:49:24.800
She's continued that work in her daughter's name ever since,

862
00:49:25.039 --> 00:49:27.800
saying her goal now is to be her daughter's voice

863
00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:32.519
for anyone still affected by domestic violence. Years before any

864
00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:35.280
of that recognition, in the fall of twenty twelve, with

865
00:49:35.360 --> 00:49:39.159
the case still unsolved and a killer walking free, Teresa

866
00:49:39.199 --> 00:49:42.039
and her husband John sat down for a local television

867
00:49:42.079 --> 00:49:45.519
interview and said, we had a beautiful daughter inside and

868
00:49:45.559 --> 00:49:48.559
out who didn't deserve to die like this. She has

869
00:49:48.639 --> 00:49:50.840
said that she is thankful that God gave her the

870
00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:53.800
gift of having Synonet as her daughter for the time

871
00:49:53.840 --> 00:49:57.519
that they had her, everyone who knew Synonet Mapes described

872
00:49:57.519 --> 00:50:01.920
her in similar terms. Warm, extremely empathetic, a bit of

873
00:50:01.920 --> 00:50:06.039
a dreamer, someone who believed in Disney movies, in second chances,

874
00:50:06.159 --> 00:50:09.400
and in angels. Just twenty nine years old when she died.

875
00:50:09.719 --> 00:50:14.159
Simonett is buried at Resurrection Cemetery in Pleasant Plains, Saten Island.

876
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:16.159
Rest in peace, Simonette.

877
00:50:16.840 --> 00:50:19.239
It sounds like she had such a wonderful family and

878
00:50:19.239 --> 00:50:24.199
her mom, I mean, how inspirational, Like after that significant loss,

879
00:50:24.280 --> 00:50:26.239
she just wants to do good in her daughter's name.

880
00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:27.320
Like that's so beautiful.

881
00:50:27.400 --> 00:50:30.440
It really is. Yeah, and her family just seems really lovely.

882
00:50:30.480 --> 00:50:33.559
They're like kind of a classic New York family. Like

883
00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:36.960
the interviews I saw with them, they are very very

884
00:50:37.039 --> 00:50:39.119
New York, you know, but they just seem like they

885
00:50:39.159 --> 00:50:42.199
were so close and so, you know, just a really

886
00:50:42.639 --> 00:50:46.360
lovely family. So a few things I wanted to talk about.

887
00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:49.119
One is that it seems like you have no doubt

888
00:50:49.159 --> 00:50:52.639
that Johnathan is guilty. Here I'm just I'm guessing, right,

889
00:50:53.079 --> 00:50:56.800
but there really was no evidence that was directly linking him.

890
00:50:56.800 --> 00:50:58.840
It was all circumstantial. But what do you think was

891
00:50:58.880 --> 00:51:01.519
the most convey and sing piece of the evidence that

892
00:51:01.840 --> 00:51:02.800
was against Jonathan.

893
00:51:03.559 --> 00:51:05.280
One of the things that stands out to me is

894
00:51:05.320 --> 00:51:08.079
the timeline. She had just found out that he was

895
00:51:08.159 --> 00:51:12.199
lying about getting his master's degree. That's pretty damning. But

896
00:51:12.280 --> 00:51:17.280
then she he left so early that morning, and it

897
00:51:17.360 --> 00:51:20.000
seemed likely that she was killed. You know, she had

898
00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:24.559
been right right. The murder weapon was never found.

899
00:51:24.599 --> 00:51:27.360
Yeah, which seemed a little strange to me. I mean,

900
00:51:27.679 --> 00:51:30.599
maybe he just cleaned it really well. They did find

901
00:51:30.679 --> 00:51:31.880
knives in the dishwasher.

902
00:51:32.039 --> 00:51:33.920
I was going to ask you about that at the time.

903
00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:36.079
Yeah, I don't know how easy it would be to

904
00:51:36.119 --> 00:51:37.039
clean a knife.

905
00:51:37.079 --> 00:51:39.000
I think a night Well depends if it was on

906
00:51:39.679 --> 00:51:41.599
you know, I guess what kind of knife it was,

907
00:51:41.639 --> 00:51:44.440
because if the handles would I would think that that

908
00:51:44.480 --> 00:51:45.960
would be harder than it was.

909
00:51:46.440 --> 00:51:49.000
Yeah. I don't know if maybe he was able to

910
00:51:49.039 --> 00:51:50.360
hide it somewhere.

911
00:51:49.960 --> 00:51:51.639
Or if it just got a big place.

912
00:51:51.960 --> 00:51:54.719
Yeah, that's that's true. I do think the timeline, like

913
00:51:54.760 --> 00:51:57.719
you said, it seems very clear that things came to

914
00:51:57.760 --> 00:52:01.039
a head between them. She had talked to her mom earlier,

915
00:52:01.119 --> 00:52:03.239
you know, saying and she was very upset, and she

916
00:52:03.360 --> 00:52:07.079
had discovered this about him. So it seemed like likely

917
00:52:07.119 --> 00:52:09.519
they had an argument, that things came to a head,

918
00:52:09.559 --> 00:52:11.840
and that you know, he pushed her down the stairs.

919
00:52:11.960 --> 00:52:13.559
So do you think it was a crime of passion?

920
00:52:14.039 --> 00:52:16.079
I kind of do, yeah. I mean, I think second

921
00:52:16.119 --> 00:52:19.480
degree murder is probably the right conclusion in this case.

922
00:52:19.480 --> 00:52:21.360
It doesn't seem like it was. Although he did have

923
00:52:21.400 --> 00:52:24.239
internet searches, I guess, so you know, there was some

924
00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:27.559
premeditation there, but I guess there wasn't enough evidence of

925
00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:29.519
premeditation to go for first degree.

926
00:52:29.840 --> 00:52:33.000
Like the internet searches were done in the days before

927
00:52:33.039 --> 00:52:34.480
her death, or had they been done.

928
00:52:34.920 --> 00:52:36.960
I think they were, it was over a longer period.

929
00:52:37.079 --> 00:52:40.280
I didn't find the exact timeline of the internet searches.

930
00:52:40.519 --> 00:52:42.840
What it seemed to me is that they were over

931
00:52:42.880 --> 00:52:46.599
a period of months leading up. So I'm not really sure. Though.

932
00:52:47.079 --> 00:52:50.159
Did it surprise you that the police didn't find this

933
00:52:50.400 --> 00:52:52.639
green bag? I mean that ended up being the key

934
00:52:52.679 --> 00:52:55.760
to the case, and they didn't find it until they

935
00:52:55.840 --> 00:52:58.199
came back and searched the house a second time. And

936
00:52:58.599 --> 00:53:01.199
I don't know how common it is when you're searching

937
00:53:01.199 --> 00:53:03.920
the crime scene, Like, I don't know how meticulous they are,

938
00:53:03.920 --> 00:53:05.760
but I would think they would go through every nook

939
00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:08.280
and cranny of a crime scene like that.

940
00:53:08.599 --> 00:53:11.800
Well, we are watching a TV show right now, and

941
00:53:12.320 --> 00:53:14.760
they just had a police search and it was very,

942
00:53:14.880 --> 00:53:18.440
very thorough, like the house was trashed after And I've

943
00:53:18.480 --> 00:53:21.119
never had anyone search our house before, so I am

944
00:53:21.159 --> 00:53:24.599
curious how thorough the searches really are. But it was

945
00:53:24.639 --> 00:53:27.199
more surprising to me that they didn't release the crime

946
00:53:27.280 --> 00:53:29.480
scene for you said at least two months after.

947
00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:30.239
Yeah.

948
00:53:30.320 --> 00:53:32.079
Sure, Jonathan was chomping at the bit.

949
00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:34.079
Yeah, and you hear all the time, like a lot

950
00:53:34.079 --> 00:53:37.239
of the stories that we've done before, the police turned

951
00:53:37.239 --> 00:53:38.679
the crime scene back over.

952
00:53:38.599 --> 00:53:40.519
To twenty four to seventy two hours.

953
00:53:40.760 --> 00:53:42.440
Yeah, and a lot of times it seems like, wow,

954
00:53:42.440 --> 00:53:44.760
that was really way too fast because they couldn't have

955
00:53:44.800 --> 00:53:48.639
processed everything. So yeah, that was also very surprising.

956
00:53:48.880 --> 00:53:51.119
Did you see any pictures of the bag? Was it

957
00:53:51.159 --> 00:53:52.719
like a messenger bag or.

958
00:53:52.679 --> 00:53:54.360
A I did not see any pictures.

959
00:53:54.360 --> 00:53:56.400
I'm wondering if they thought possibly it was a purse

960
00:53:56.519 --> 00:53:57.000
or something.

961
00:53:57.599 --> 00:54:00.280
Maybe Yeah, I don't know. I didn't see pictures of it.

962
00:54:00.639 --> 00:54:02.920
One thing I found interesting about this case is just

963
00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:06.639
the level of the secrets that Jonathan had so not

964
00:54:06.679 --> 00:54:11.280
only was he seeing sex workers multiple times, spending hundreds

965
00:54:11.320 --> 00:54:14.960
of dollars, but also pretending to attend classes towards his

966
00:54:15.039 --> 00:54:17.679
master's degree, like keeping this up for I don't know

967
00:54:17.679 --> 00:54:20.079
how long, but I would presume a.

968
00:54:20.079 --> 00:54:22.639
Couple of years, right, Yeah, And it.

969
00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:26.239
Just surprises me that someone can be so audacious to

970
00:54:26.360 --> 00:54:29.199
be married and have secrets that are that big.

971
00:54:30.199 --> 00:54:33.559
Not that our marriage is perfect, but I feel like

972
00:54:33.800 --> 00:54:37.000
two people like us who are in a healthy relationship

973
00:54:37.199 --> 00:54:39.199
that don't lie to each other, it is hard for

974
00:54:39.280 --> 00:54:41.840
us to believe, but there are plenty of people out

975
00:54:41.840 --> 00:54:44.840
there that are also in bad marriages. They're probably like, oh,

976
00:54:44.840 --> 00:54:47.280
that's not surprising to me at all. Right, you know,

977
00:54:47.320 --> 00:54:49.599
my husband has lied about X, Y and Z for

978
00:54:49.719 --> 00:54:50.760
you know, a long time.

979
00:54:50.880 --> 00:54:51.599
Yeah, very true.

980
00:54:51.639 --> 00:54:54.199
It breaks my heart though, because Simonette was such a

981
00:54:54.239 --> 00:54:57.159
lovely person and she really wanted to make the world

982
00:54:57.199 --> 00:55:00.480
a better place, and hear her husband is just to

983
00:55:00.880 --> 00:55:04.480
just garbage. I know, it's so unfair to her to.

984
00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:07.599
Yeah, she deserves so much better than that. A lot

985
00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:10.360
of times we tell these stories, and obviously we always

986
00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:14.159
respect the victims and we always want to honor the victims.

987
00:55:14.519 --> 00:55:17.519
The victims aren't always great people, but in this case,

988
00:55:17.519 --> 00:55:19.719
she just seemed like almost the saint, Like she was

989
00:55:19.800 --> 00:55:20.960
just such a good person.

990
00:55:21.079 --> 00:55:24.199
And well, let me clarify your comments a little bit,

991
00:55:24.280 --> 00:55:27.400
because no one deserves to be killed by their Absolutely.

992
00:55:27.480 --> 00:55:29.920
Yeah, I'm not trying to imply that at all. But

993
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:33.320
I just do feel like she was such a purely

994
00:55:33.400 --> 00:55:36.840
good person that it just makes me really angry.

995
00:55:36.639 --> 00:55:39.639
That one of the grossest things about this case was

996
00:55:39.679 --> 00:55:43.320
that he called Ms. Pumpkin to have, you know, a

997
00:55:43.400 --> 00:55:46.679
date after he killed his wife, Right, And you said, like,

998
00:55:46.760 --> 00:55:48.199
I don't know if it was because it was like

999
00:55:48.360 --> 00:55:51.000
a holiday weekend or something that he had called all

1000
00:55:51.039 --> 00:55:52.119
those other people.

1001
00:55:51.920 --> 00:55:53.360
Right, Yeah, I assume he called a bunch.

1002
00:55:53.480 --> 00:55:55.679
You don't really know why he called tene.

1003
00:55:55.599 --> 00:55:57.519
I don't. I just assume he was trying to find

1004
00:55:57.840 --> 00:56:00.440
line someone up, you know. But it seemed odd that

1005
00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:03.719
if Ms Pumpkin was his tenth call, the one that

1006
00:56:03.760 --> 00:56:06.840
he finally got through, Like, did he have nine other

1007
00:56:07.079 --> 00:56:10.079
sex workers that he was seeing regularly over the years.

1008
00:56:10.559 --> 00:56:12.840
Yeah, it's really hard to wrap your head around, it

1009
00:56:12.880 --> 00:56:16.320
really is. But did he get off on killing his wife?

1010
00:56:16.840 --> 00:56:18.920
Do you think that's why he needed a date?

1011
00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:22.119
I have no idea. I don't even like to think

1012
00:56:22.159 --> 00:56:24.519
about that. It may have been that he was, you know,

1013
00:56:24.920 --> 00:56:28.840
under feeling stressed. I don't know. That's just so disgusting. Though.

1014
00:56:29.159 --> 00:56:31.119
You probably don't know the answer to this, but do

1015
00:56:31.119 --> 00:56:33.960
you have any idea how much his shoe collection was worth?

1016
00:56:34.360 --> 00:56:36.719
I really don't. Sounds like there were quite a few

1017
00:56:36.719 --> 00:56:39.360
shoes and the value was like between three and five

1018
00:56:39.400 --> 00:56:43.039
hundred dollars each pair, So yeah, probably quite a bit.

1019
00:56:43.440 --> 00:56:45.920
How do you think Jonathan likes the shoes in prison?

1020
00:56:47.960 --> 00:56:50.280
I hope that he doesn't like them at all. It

1021
00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:52.599
really bothers me a little bit too, that he you know,

1022
00:56:52.599 --> 00:56:55.519
he got twenty five years to life, which could mean

1023
00:56:55.719 --> 00:56:57.840
it could mean as little as twenty five years, which

1024
00:56:57.840 --> 00:57:00.199
would mean that he could get out of prison as

1025
00:57:00.239 --> 00:57:02.760
early as fifty two. And that's you know, that's still

1026
00:57:02.960 --> 00:57:04.599
you've got a lot of life ahead of you, yea,

1027
00:57:04.880 --> 00:57:07.239
at fifty two. I hope he doesn't get out of

1028
00:57:07.360 --> 00:57:07.960
prison then.

1029
00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:10.599
But yeah, another thing I wanted to mention that I

1030
00:57:10.599 --> 00:57:14.440
thought was really gross was the jury selection. This always

1031
00:57:14.440 --> 00:57:18.440
bothers me, like, you know, the prosecution is like, well

1032
00:57:18.559 --> 00:57:19.480
it's no, I'm sorry.

1033
00:57:19.480 --> 00:57:21.199
It was the defense yeah, they wanted men.

1034
00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:24.760
Yeah, they wanted men like, yeah, not all met are gross.

1035
00:57:25.039 --> 00:57:27.880
That's really unfair. But yeah, do you think that there's

1036
00:57:27.920 --> 00:57:28.599
truth in that.

1037
00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:31.800
I don't see how that would have really helped him.

1038
00:57:31.880 --> 00:57:34.440
I know, you know, attorneys have to do what they

1039
00:57:34.559 --> 00:57:37.239
think is the best for their client, and I think

1040
00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:40.320
they were desperate, maybe because some of the arguments that

1041
00:57:40.360 --> 00:57:42.199
we talked about that they were trying to put out

1042
00:57:42.199 --> 00:57:44.840
there just felt more like desperation, like they really didn't

1043
00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:46.920
have much of a leg to stand on. So I

1044
00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:49.079
like to think that was the case, But yeah, it doesn't.

1045
00:57:49.280 --> 00:57:50.599
It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

1046
00:57:50.920 --> 00:57:53.599
And what about all these poor students. You know, they

1047
00:57:53.679 --> 00:57:57.440
lost both, like, you know, two teachers from the same school.

1048
00:57:57.440 --> 00:58:00.960
That must have been really devastating to these young Yeah.

1049
00:58:00.840 --> 00:58:04.199
I'm sure. Well, that is the story of Semonet Mapes.

1050
00:58:10.440 --> 00:58:12.639
One of the things that really stuck with me researching

1051
00:58:12.639 --> 00:58:16.239
the story was just how much Siminet poured into her students,

1052
00:58:16.480 --> 00:58:20.000
buying prom dresses out of her own pocket, staying after hours,

1053
00:58:20.400 --> 00:58:23.840
making sure that kids who had almost nothing still felt

1054
00:58:23.840 --> 00:58:26.519
like they mattered. Teachers like that, they don't just teach

1055
00:58:26.559 --> 00:58:30.159
a subject, They shape how a kids sees themselves, sometimes

1056
00:58:30.199 --> 00:58:32.559
for the rest of their lives. Teachers can have an

1057
00:58:32.559 --> 00:58:35.280
impact on students in a lot of different ways. For Simonet,

1058
00:58:35.360 --> 00:58:38.440
I think it was her generosity, but others might spark

1059
00:58:38.519 --> 00:58:42.320
like intellectual curiosity, or challenge you to think in ways

1060
00:58:42.360 --> 00:58:44.679
that you never thought of, or just show up when

1061
00:58:44.679 --> 00:58:47.519
you need someone there. So it got me thinking about

1062
00:58:47.519 --> 00:58:49.800
my own teachers. I think we all have teachers that

1063
00:58:50.199 --> 00:58:53.519
left a mark for better or worse. Who were the

1064
00:58:53.519 --> 00:58:56.760
most memorable teachers that you if you think back on

1065
00:58:56.800 --> 00:58:57.880
your school days.

1066
00:58:58.079 --> 00:59:00.800
I had a lot, a lot of really wonderful teachers.

1067
00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:03.440
I was a pretty quiet kid. I think just a

1068
00:59:03.440 --> 00:59:05.320
couple of weeks ago, I talked about how I had

1069
00:59:05.320 --> 00:59:08.599
a teacher that taught me how to read essentially, and

1070
00:59:09.159 --> 00:59:13.000
she was amazing. I had a really great school from

1071
00:59:13.079 --> 00:59:16.199
first grade to sixth grade, and it was a smaller

1072
00:59:16.239 --> 00:59:19.000
school and I felt like everyone knew each other and

1073
00:59:19.039 --> 00:59:22.639
it was just a really warm, loving environment and just

1074
00:59:22.679 --> 00:59:26.599
a lot of nurturing teachers. And yeah, I know miss

1075
00:59:26.760 --> 00:59:29.880
Jenkins who later got married. I had her for two

1076
00:59:30.079 --> 00:59:33.599
years and she was my favorite. I was just but yeah,

1077
00:59:33.599 --> 00:59:35.320
I mean I had a lot of great ones, but yeah.

1078
00:59:35.679 --> 00:59:37.519
I also a lot of great ones, but when I

1079
00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:40.079
was thinking back about this, the one that stood out

1080
00:59:40.119 --> 00:59:43.159
for me is it's kind of an odd choice. My

1081
00:59:43.239 --> 00:59:45.719
chemistry teacher in high school his name was mister Bryce,

1082
00:59:46.280 --> 00:59:48.440
and he could be really tough, Like a lot of

1083
00:59:48.440 --> 00:59:52.000
people did not like him at all. He regularly could

1084
00:59:52.159 --> 00:59:54.320
he could make people cry in the classroom because he

1085
00:59:54.360 --> 00:59:56.880
would be kind of he would just be very tough.

1086
00:59:56.920 --> 00:59:59.400
I remember one time he used to call people up

1087
00:59:59.440 --> 01:00:02.559
to the chalk word randomly and he'd be like asked,

1088
01:00:02.280 --> 01:00:04.559
He'd put a problem up and you would have to

1089
01:00:04.599 --> 01:00:06.559
solve it in front of the class. And one day

1090
01:00:06.559 --> 01:00:08.199
I went up and I had no idea what I

1091
01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:10.639
was doing. I hadn't done my homework. And I remember

1092
01:00:10.679 --> 01:00:13.639
he said to me, little studying goes a long way, hey,

1093
01:00:13.760 --> 01:00:16.920
rich And I said, I said, I wouldn't know, sir,

1094
01:00:17.079 --> 01:00:20.559
because I didn't do the study. And it was he

1095
01:00:20.639 --> 01:00:23.280
was so tough, But at the same time, like after

1096
01:00:23.400 --> 01:00:25.400
the end of the semester, I was like, you know,

1097
01:00:25.440 --> 01:00:28.519
he really made me. He challenged me in ways that

1098
01:00:28.559 --> 01:00:30.320
I don't think other people had challenged me, and he

1099
01:00:30.360 --> 01:00:32.960
made me think in different ways, and it really like

1100
01:00:33.119 --> 01:00:35.440
I don't know it left the mark on me for sure.

1101
01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:37.599
When you were such a good kid, I think, in

1102
01:00:37.679 --> 01:00:41.920
a really good student, So I imagine any time a

1103
01:00:41.960 --> 01:00:44.360
teacher called you out on saying it made a huge

1104
01:00:44.360 --> 01:00:47.320
impact because you wanted to be the best and the times.

1105
01:00:47.360 --> 01:00:48.760
Well, one of the things he did to that I

1106
01:00:48.760 --> 01:00:51.079
thought was really interesting is he said, at the beginning

1107
01:00:51.079 --> 01:00:54.719
of the year, chemistry is cumulative, So if you get

1108
01:00:54.719 --> 01:00:57.840
bad grades throughout the year, but you ace your final exam,

1109
01:00:58.039 --> 01:01:00.840
I'm going to change all your grades to A. And

1110
01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:03.280
that's exactly what happened to me. I was like going

1111
01:01:03.320 --> 01:01:06.239
with like a CB minus through the entire school year.

1112
01:01:06.760 --> 01:01:09.599
You were now in chemistry. I was, and then I

1113
01:01:09.639 --> 01:01:12.639
studied really hard for the final exam and I aced it.

1114
01:01:12.800 --> 01:01:14.440
He changed all my grades to an A.

1115
01:01:14.599 --> 01:01:17.639
What was your high school GPA?

1116
01:01:17.719 --> 01:01:20.960
I know, you know it was like three points seven

1117
01:01:21.320 --> 01:01:22.559
maybe something like that.

1118
01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:25.840
Okay, I thought you would be slightly closer to four points.

1119
01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:27.199
It was your high school GPA.

1120
01:01:27.440 --> 01:01:30.679
I really have no idea, but it wasn't a sportifinal. Okay.

1121
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:33.840
I have another story, and I hope he's listening, but

1122
01:01:33.880 --> 01:01:40.679
my no doubt. My trigonometry teacher, who was also the

1123
01:01:40.679 --> 01:01:43.480
football coach. I blame him because I thought he was

1124
01:01:43.519 --> 01:01:47.159
not like the best teacher, but I could have studied

1125
01:01:47.159 --> 01:01:50.880
harder and I wanted to drop the class and my

1126
01:01:50.960 --> 01:01:52.400
mom was like, oh, yeah, sure, you don't need to

1127
01:01:52.400 --> 01:01:54.239
go ahead. I don't care to drop it. And so

1128
01:01:54.320 --> 01:01:56.360
I went to him with my drop slip and he

1129
01:01:56.480 --> 01:01:59.639
was furious. He was like, I'm not going to let

1130
01:01:59.639 --> 01:02:02.239
you drop this class and I was like, well, I

1131
01:02:02.239 --> 01:02:04.719
don't want it, I don't need it, you know, blah

1132
01:02:04.719 --> 01:02:07.719
blah blah, and he was like adamant that I shouldn't

1133
01:02:07.800 --> 01:02:09.920
drop it, and I feel like he did. I don't know.

1134
01:02:09.960 --> 01:02:12.679
I had to like do another step or two because

1135
01:02:12.719 --> 01:02:13.800
he refused to sign it.

1136
01:02:14.199 --> 01:02:15.559
Did you end up dropping it? Still?

1137
01:02:15.679 --> 01:02:16.079
I did?

1138
01:02:16.199 --> 01:02:19.360
And he was right, yeah, So well it's good that

1139
01:02:19.400 --> 01:02:20.440
you can look back at it.

1140
01:02:21.119 --> 01:02:25.039
Yeah, like I should have tried harder, and he yeah,

1141
01:02:25.079 --> 01:02:25.639
he was right.

1142
01:02:25.800 --> 01:02:28.519
I do think it is interesting how you know, teacher,

1143
01:02:28.639 --> 01:02:31.159
it's not just when you're teaching and you have an impact.

1144
01:02:31.159 --> 01:02:33.599
It's not just about being nice and thoughtful. It's also

1145
01:02:33.639 --> 01:02:37.920
about challenging your students and you know, sometimes disagreeing or

1146
01:02:38.079 --> 01:02:40.119
you know, coming down on them a little bit. So

1147
01:02:40.360 --> 01:02:41.079
it is important.

1148
01:02:41.519 --> 01:02:43.599
Well, good luck to all the teachers that are listening.

1149
01:02:43.679 --> 01:02:46.199
We love you and support you, and you're amazing.

1150
01:02:46.400 --> 01:02:48.800
You are amazing. And it is back to school time now.

1151
01:02:48.920 --> 01:02:51.280
Yeah, good luck to all the parents, good luck to

1152
01:02:51.320 --> 01:02:53.960
all the teachers, good luck to all the students. Well.

1153
01:02:53.960 --> 01:02:56.800
Shout out to the state of Michigan for being such

1154
01:02:56.840 --> 01:03:02.280
a beautiful state. We spent yet anotheration in our beautiful state.

1155
01:03:02.360 --> 01:03:03.760
I mean it really is a beautiful state.

1156
01:03:03.920 --> 01:03:05.719
So we went to the up and we visited a

1157
01:03:05.760 --> 01:03:06.440
couple of places.

1158
01:03:06.480 --> 01:03:07.880
It stands for Upper Peninsula.

1159
01:03:08.119 --> 01:03:11.960
Those are across the Mighty Mac. That's that's another.

1160
01:03:11.760 --> 01:03:14.360
Story bridge, yes, way up north.

1161
01:03:14.559 --> 01:03:18.280
Yeah, so we crossed over to uh, you could call

1162
01:03:18.320 --> 01:03:23.360
it like Wisconsin East. It is attached to it and

1163
01:03:23.440 --> 01:03:27.280
that attached to Michigan. But beautiful area. But we went

1164
01:03:27.320 --> 01:03:30.599
to We've been through through Munising, but we have never

1165
01:03:30.760 --> 01:03:33.840
done the pictured rocks. You have to take a boat

1166
01:03:33.920 --> 01:03:36.519
to see the pictured rocks or a kayak out there.

1167
01:03:36.760 --> 01:03:38.760
And we finally took the boat right and saw the

1168
01:03:38.760 --> 01:03:40.360
pictured rocks, which were beautiful.

1169
01:03:40.519 --> 01:03:40.920
Yeah.

1170
01:03:40.960 --> 01:03:46.039
But we also went to Taekwanamon Falls, which was stunning.

1171
01:03:46.039 --> 01:03:47.039
I'm so glad we did that.

1172
01:03:47.320 --> 01:03:48.440
Yeah, really incredible.

1173
01:03:48.559 --> 01:03:50.920
Yeah, So if you ever have the opportunity to go

1174
01:03:50.960 --> 01:03:54.920
to Michigan's Upper Peninsula, definitely check those two things out.

1175
01:03:55.079 --> 01:03:57.719
Absolutely. It really is a beautiful state. And that actually

1176
01:03:57.800 --> 01:04:00.360
leads me to one final thing I wanted to just

1177
01:04:00.440 --> 01:04:03.719
briefly mentioned, and it may not sound related, but I'm

1178
01:04:03.840 --> 01:04:09.440
a little bit angry with the Detroit Tigers organization right now. Organization. So,

1179
01:04:10.079 --> 01:04:13.360
there are these influencers from the UK named Josh and Jase,

1180
01:04:13.920 --> 01:04:16.440
and they travel around to different places and make videos,

1181
01:04:16.440 --> 01:04:18.800
and they've been in Michigan for like quite a while

1182
01:04:19.079 --> 01:04:21.760
and they came here last winter and I just actually

1183
01:04:21.760 --> 01:04:23.920
watched a video where they were summing up their trip

1184
01:04:23.920 --> 01:04:26.079
to Michigan and it really is lovely. If you have

1185
01:04:26.119 --> 01:04:29.679
a chance, check it out and show I can do that.

1186
01:04:29.760 --> 01:04:30.000
Yeah.

1187
01:04:30.159 --> 01:04:32.840
But they were invited by the Detroit Tigers organization to

1188
01:04:32.880 --> 01:04:35.519
throw out the first pitch at a Tigers game. And

1189
01:04:35.599 --> 01:04:39.000
this is not the first time podcasters or other folks

1190
01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:41.760
have been invited to throw out the first pitch. There

1191
01:04:41.800 --> 01:04:45.039
was the Chef Reactions guy who I follow also, he

1192
01:04:45.480 --> 01:04:49.239
also has adopted Detroit as his second home. He got

1193
01:04:49.239 --> 01:04:51.199
to throw out the first pitch, And here you have

1194
01:04:51.239 --> 01:04:54.679
a podcaster who lives in the state of Michigan, who

1195
01:04:54.719 --> 01:04:57.679
has been a Tigers fan his entire life and has

1196
01:04:57.760 --> 01:05:00.559
never been asked to throw out the first pitch at

1197
01:05:00.599 --> 01:05:03.719
a Tiger's game. So I am putting a plea out

1198
01:05:03.760 --> 01:05:06.480
there for any of you who work for the Tigers

1199
01:05:06.559 --> 01:05:10.679
organization know somebody that works for the Tigers organization. I

1200
01:05:10.679 --> 01:05:13.360
think it would be only fair to have the hosts

1201
01:05:13.480 --> 01:05:15.960
of Love Mary Kill out to throw the first pitch.

1202
01:05:18.840 --> 01:05:20.960
Prayer. I hope that works out for you, sir.

1203
01:05:21.079 --> 01:05:23.320
I know we're not quite as big as maybe Josh

1204
01:05:23.360 --> 01:05:27.760
and Jace or the or the food the Chef Reactions guy,

1205
01:05:27.800 --> 01:05:31.800
but can confirm we are not. But I'm definitely a

1206
01:05:31.800 --> 01:05:33.920
bigger Tigers fan than all of those folks.

1207
01:05:34.000 --> 01:05:37.119
Well, it was really a rude awakening to come home,

1208
01:05:37.599 --> 01:05:39.719
you know how Like you talking about influencers, and I've

1209
01:05:39.719 --> 01:05:42.920
followed you know, some influencers throughout the years who have

1210
01:05:43.559 --> 01:05:46.719
really gotten very popular, and they'll go from you know,

1211
01:05:47.199 --> 01:05:51.119
a thousand followers to five million, and then you can

1212
01:05:51.159 --> 01:05:53.760
see the changes in their life because their trips are

1213
01:05:54.199 --> 01:05:58.320
no longer you know, their vacations are to Europe or

1214
01:05:58.400 --> 01:06:00.639
and then you see them moving and their homes are like,

1215
01:06:00.920 --> 01:06:03.920
you know, these beautiful, elaborate homes. And you know, we've

1216
01:06:03.920 --> 01:06:06.760
been at this for a few years and definitely we're

1217
01:06:06.800 --> 01:06:09.400
so grateful for all the support that we've had, but

1218
01:06:09.920 --> 01:06:12.960
we still like the change that you'll see in our

1219
01:06:13.000 --> 01:06:15.079
life is we'll talk about if we become, you know,

1220
01:06:15.159 --> 01:06:17.960
hit it big, we will have a new ice maker

1221
01:06:18.199 --> 01:06:21.800
and our freezer, because coming home after staying in airbnbs

1222
01:06:21.840 --> 01:06:25.079
that have ice makers, I'm like such a lunch gosh darted.

1223
01:06:25.239 --> 01:06:29.360
We still have this stupid ice maker situation that we

1224
01:06:29.440 --> 01:06:32.039
still have to make. I know, someday, honey, we'll get

1225
01:06:32.079 --> 01:06:36.360
a well, get a nice, nice freezer. Well. And I

1226
01:06:36.400 --> 01:06:39.039
also say a lot of that is also environmental, because

1227
01:06:39.079 --> 01:06:43.679
I can't justify throwing a face away. Yeah, maybe we'll

1228
01:06:43.679 --> 01:06:46.559
get that. We have talked about getting the countertop ice maker,

1229
01:06:46.800 --> 01:06:50.599
but we still have done it. I guess it just

1230
01:06:50.639 --> 01:06:53.760
thanks just escape my brain. But anyway, we love you guys,

1231
01:06:53.840 --> 01:06:56.360
Thank you so much for listening. If you love our

1232
01:06:56.400 --> 01:06:59.400
show and would like to support us, please consider supporting

1233
01:06:59.480 --> 01:07:03.480
us on page go to patreon dot com slash love Marykill.

1234
01:07:03.719 --> 01:07:05.679
We only have one tier. We keep it nice and

1235
01:07:05.760 --> 01:07:08.119
easy for five dollars a month, you got early ad

1236
01:07:08.119 --> 01:07:11.079
free access and a monthly bonus episode.

1237
01:07:11.280 --> 01:07:13.880
Find us on social media, send us an email at

1238
01:07:13.920 --> 01:07:16.960
Lovemarykill at gmail dot com, or go to our website

1239
01:07:17.039 --> 01:07:20.039
at Lovemarykill dot com and leave us a voice message.

1240
01:07:20.480 --> 01:07:22.880
Until next time, don't kill your wife and don't kill

1241
01:07:22.880 --> 01:08:05.639
your husband.