Susan and Josh Powell - Part 3

WEBVTT

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Hi. I'm Tina, and I'm
Rich. And if there's one thing we've

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learned in over twenty years of marriage, it's that some days you'll feel like

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killing your wife, and some days
you'll feel like killing your husband. Welcome

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to love, Mary Kill, Hey
Rich, Hey Tina. How are you?

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I'm great? How are you?
I'm fabulous good. I feel a

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little tired. I've got my little
co pilot Clover over here next to me,

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and we are both ready to hear
Part three three, Part three,

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So this probably could be four parts. There's a lot, there's a lot

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of the story you left to tell, but we are going to do it

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all today, So it might be
a little long. It might be a

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long episode, all right. We
never know. We never know. Sometimes

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we think it's going to be long, it's not. But this document is

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twenty one thousand words, a lot
of words. Yeah, we've got a

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lot of words left. So I
do want to give a content warning.

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This episode contains adult and disturbing content, including discussions of violence against women and

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children. Listener discretion is strongly advised. Today's going to be rough, all

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right. I will prepare myself.
But before we get into it, I

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did I did bring us next,
Of course you did. I brought you

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some cherries. Okay, why do
you sound disappointed? I thought they were

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going to be dried cherries, and
I was going to be disappointed. But

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these are fresh, dry cherries.
I don't love dried cherries. They're okay,

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I don't know I love dried cherries. Yeah, you're a Michigan or

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you're supposed to love dried cherries.
You're supposed to be dried cherries and everything

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neither, just like a fanci or
form of a raisin. I don't like

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raisins, so but fresh cherries are
excellent. They're not Michigan cherries. Though

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hopefully we are going to get away
some time soon. By the time you

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hear this, we probably have already
gone away to Traverse City and get some

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cherries up there. Yeah, they
did bring you another snack too. I

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think you might have. Have you
seen these in our pantry? Oh you

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haven't. Holy moly, you're gonna
love me even more than you already do.

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That's hard to imagine. But is
it? Costco? The other day?

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And they are snappers caramel and brownie
cluster, brownie crisps caramel with dark

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chocolate sounds good. I'm surprised these
are still in the pantry. I don't

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know if you guys didn't see them. Well, I haven't had any sugar

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in like five days, so I'm
really going to enjoy this. You were

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you might? All right, we'll
be right back. So what did you

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think of the snappers? Those were
really good. I was expecting something more

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brownie like, but it was more
like a gooey, like a chocolate caramel

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candy type of thing. They're good, Yeah, they're really good. It's

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a dark it's pretty dark like the
Brownie Party, like a dark chocolate,

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and the coating is dark chocolate.
So if you like dark chocolate and caramel,

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obviously you would love these. I
think they're great. Yeah, is

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that you should come up with a
rating system? We should? So from

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one to ten? Do you think
that's one to ten or do you want

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to do stars? One to ten
is good? Two years in, we're

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finally going to come up with a
system, all right, So I'm giving

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it a ten. I need I
do it. I'm going to give it

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up. I'm going to give it
a eight point nine. Okay, I

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mean they're they're really good. Yeah, why did you deduct one point one

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point. Well, honestly, I've
only had one and I feel like I

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need I need to have more.
So yeah, okay. And the cherries,

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what would you rate them? Ten
out of ten? Cherry are we?

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Cherries are great? Cherries are great
if there wasn't they'd be even better

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if there wasn't a pit in the
middle. Not much I cant cherries.

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I should have chewed it up and
given it to you and taken the pit

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out and then no, all good? All right? Are you ready to

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wrap this thing up? I am? Shall I summarize? Sure? All

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right? Hi? Reading this summary
that I wrote? Yes, thank you

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for writing this nice summary of parts
one and two. Very short summary.

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But if you haven't listened to parts
one and two, obviously you should go

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do that now. Susan Powell went
missing on December seventh, two thousand and

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nine, from West Valley City,
Utah. Her husband Josh left for a

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camping trip in the middle of the
night with his four year old son Charlie

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and two year old son Braden.
He said Susan stayed home, but his

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son said that Mommy went with them. Josh was not helpful in the investigation

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Susan's friends and family thought Josh had
something to do with her disappearance. Their

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marriage had not been good for years. After Susan disappeared, Josh quickly packed

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their home up and moved with his
sons nearly nine hundred miles away to Powalap,

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Washington. They moved in with Josh's
father, Steve. Steve, who

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is a total creep, openly admitted
that he was in love with Susan,

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but frustratingly, there was not enough
evidence to make an arrest up to this

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point. But the only suspect was
Josh Powell. The only thing that I

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should have added in there, Well, there's a lot of things I could

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have added in there, But Susan
had left behind notes and clues and videotapes

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saying if I go missing, I
didn't go missing for any other reason than

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my husband probably had something to do
with it. Yeah, she had that

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safe deposit box and they found the
note in there that she wrote. When

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the spring of thaw arrived in Utah
and April, investigators and trained searchers braved

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the chilly air and muddy terrain to
search for Susan's remains in the Simpson Springs

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area along the Pony Express Trail that
Josh had visited with his sons on December

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sixth. The mucky wet roads made
it hard for vehicles to pass. Cursey,

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Helliwell, and Jennifer Graves came to
observe, but they weren't allowed to

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help in the search. Cursey said, quote, there are twenty thousand minds

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in Utah alone. More of you
include abandon of mine's in Nevada and Arizona.

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If he killed her, he'd have
dumped her in one of those,

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Jennifer said, quote, or somewhere
else we haven't thought of yet. They

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both knew it was unlikely that Josh
had willingly told law enforcement where exactly he'd

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put her body. They knew there
was a slim chance that they'd find Susan,

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but they remained hopeful that their dear
friend would be found and Josh would

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finally be arrested. Did you know
there were so many mines? I knew

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there were a lot, but not
that twenty thousand. Crazy makes you wonder

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how many bodies there are in minds
out there? Well. Searching minds is

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extremely difficult and dangerous and shouldn't be
attempted. Unless you are a professional.

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Most minds were dug decades ago,
some as deep as two thousand feet so

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last night I read some are even
four thousand feet deep. The earth is

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unstable and may crumble, collapse,
or fill with water. Undetonated explosives may

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have been left inside the mines.
Rattlesnakes and other wildlife might also live in

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the mind and oxygen is sparse.
I saw a few different videos on people

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and mines and like your oxygen is
fine, and then all of a sudden,

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like there's no oxygen. Yeah,
it's really dangerous. Stephen Fluke,

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manager of the Abandoned Mine Reclamation Program
at the Utah Division of Oil, Gas

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and Mining, said, no one
knows how many mines there are and where

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they are located. Some mining districts
can have one hundred or more mines,

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and some have multiple openings. Quote. A lot of mines are in pretty

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rugged terrain that you would need a
truck or an ATV to access. It's

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pretty dangerous even if you are prepared
or skilled. End Quote. When we

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think of Josh disposing of Susan's body, it's hard to imagine that he was

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able to find a mine in the
middle of a snowstorm and dump her body

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by himself. There were some sleds
found in the van, so possibly he

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could have used a sled, But
in the snowy weather like there was several

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inches of snow like new snow falling
middle of the night it's dark, he

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wouldn't have been able to veer far
off the trails because the trails are their

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gravel roads, and so it would
have to be a mine that was very

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fairly close to a road exactly.
The West Valley City Police Department searched the

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West Desert for weeks with the help
of the Utah Department of Natural Resources.

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The DNR made some maps of mines
they thought were most likely for Josh to

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have left Susan's body, the mines
that weren't too far off the beaten trail

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and weren't too far away. It
was a week's long project initially after Susan's

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disappearance that expanded as the weather improved. Hundreds of mines have been searched over

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the years. Independent groups and hobbyists
have searched for Susan in Utah's West Desert

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as well. On October sixteenth,
twenty ten, Susan's twenty ninth birthday,

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friends gathered to release one hundred and
fifty purple balloons and ate cake together on

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the one year anniversary of her disappearance. Her friends and family volunteered their time

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to charitable organizations in her honor.
They were all heartbroken, but none more

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than Chuck and Judy Cox, who
had not only lost their daughter, but

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were kept away from Charlie and Braden
for eight months. So purple was Susan's

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favorite color, but remember when Shanaan
Watts went missing, they also used purple,

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purple ribbons and balloons and things like
that. And then there was another

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case, Aaron Corwin. I think
purple was her favorite color, and they

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also used purple to symbolize that.
Very interesting. If I went missing,

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what color ribbon would she use?
Yellow? I do. Yellow is one

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of my favorite colors. The West
Valley City Police Department became frustrated by the

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slow movement in the investigation. With
no tangible leads or tips, they wanted

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an arrest. They decided to get
creative. They launched what they coined Operations

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Tsunami in August twenty eleven. It
was a sophisticated multi step operation that leveraged

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the media and the Cox family and
put increased pressure on the Powells. It

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involved a wiretap, a meeting at
Red Lobster, cooperation with a local television

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station, and a convoy to the
desert with the media. But it all

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started with a honk and wave.
Do you know what a honkin wave is?

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I don't, but you got me
thinking about Red Lobster Biscuits. Are

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they still open because they claimed bankruptcy? Red Lobster? Oh? I think

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there, I hope. So,
well, what is a honkin wave?

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I have no idea, I guess. I mean, it's kind of what

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it sounds drive by somebody in your
honkin' wave. I mean, you know

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when you see like protesters on a
street corner support right exactly. Chuck and

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Judy Cox were encouraged by the West
Valley City Police Department to hold a honk

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and wave for Susan Kersey. Helliwell
organized a similar honk and wave event concurrently

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in West Valley City. The Coxes
held a large banner that said remember me

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Susan Cox, ten thousand dollars reward. They stood in front of a grocery

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store on a busy street corner where
the Powells shopped and pulled all up with

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friends and family, all wearing purple. They arranged the time to coincide with

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the Powell's weekly grocery run. Nice, a local television station, arrived to

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interview Chuck Cox just as Steve Powell
drove up and jumped out of his car

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with his video camera grasped in his
hand to confront the Coxes camera. And

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I thought, so I could just
say yes, little shot. Yeah,

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I did, and I got okay, and I guess we're here. Yeah,

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right right, I'm not. You
are a though? Anyway? Is

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there any other question that I can
answer for anybody? I'm I'm totally open

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to anything. I mean, We've
got a lot of information about the Cox

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family, about Susan, A lot
of it from her journals, a lot

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of it from Josh's. You know, he lived with Susan for eight years

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before she left. He knows a
lot that is not in the journals.

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But the journals confirmed what he knows
that Susan holding about the Fans, about

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her growing up with hes Ben.
He basically Johns had an extensive interview with

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them the day or so after Susan
disappears of arrogant and the way they handled

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the interview, and they know they
handled it wrong. They know they screwed

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up. If you go back to
December two thousand and nine, they themselves

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admit there's a controversy over the reasons
Josh quit contacting them and got himself an

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attorney. There's a controversy within an
internal controversy in the West Valley City Police.

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It's because that was because they screwed
up. And you know, as

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I told Josh, we should probably
explain that on our website. We're not

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talking. I doubt that Josh will
ever talk to the West Valley City Police

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arrogant, but he'll talk to the
FBI. They just have to call.

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They know our number, they know
my email. I contacted them three or

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four months ago about some possible lead
that I had, but they don't you

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know, they'll contact me if they
want to. They don't tell us anything

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about the investigation. The only thing
they told us is they believes is alive.

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They've told us that, and Josh
had nothing to do with her disappearance.

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That's what they told us. They
told us a couple of other things

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that nothing about specifics about the investigation
that was four months after for three months

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after we told them about the Steven
Kosher possibility. We think that their investigation

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ended up probably had something to do
with their conclusion that she's alive. They

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must have found something. I told
Josh at the time, I said,

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they didn't they know she's alive.
They wouldn't say they believe she's alive.

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They know. Do you get the
impression that Steve enjoys talking to the media

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and he's definitely rewriting history too.
The police never said that they thought Susan

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was alive. Yeah, I didn't
think so. And the fact that he

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just is like butting into this event
that is in support of finding Susan just

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for his own yea, for his
own like grandstanding, is just He's gross.

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He's mad about it. He's mad
that they're there, you know,

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trying to get information about Susan's disappearance. Josh was at the honk and wave

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too, but he was more subdued
than his father. He spoke tearfully to

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the cameras about how much he missed
Susan. He had allegedly consulted with a

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media specialist about appearing more sincere.
When he talked about Susan in front of

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the camera. Chuck realized that the
police had used him as a pawn to

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coax Steve to divulge something about Susan's
journal so they could request a search warrant

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for them. He said later,
quote, so I'm the bait. That's

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fine with me. You know,
I'm willing to help the police. They

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could have just told me what they
wanted me to do. I would have

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done it. I knew what kind
of words I needed out of Steve.

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I needed him to say that he
had the journals, say that they were

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important. I needed to give the
police a reason to give a judge that

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they needed to get those journals back
end quote. So, poor Chuck felt

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like the West Valley City Police Department
was using him. They didn't tell him

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exactly what they needed him to do. They didn't tell him, you know,

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we need this information. But he
was enough to figure it out.

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But I think he was annoyed that
they didn't clue him into the plan.

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Yeah, I can understand that,
and I think at this point he was

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really frustrated because they kept telling him
we're close to an arrest, We're close,

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and they weren't. Yeah, a
judge granted a wiretap to be placed

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on Josh and Steve's cell phones and
landline. Over one thy eight hundred calls

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between the pall family members were intercepted
by the wire Investigators discovered that Josh and

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Mike. Do you remember Mike.
We talked about him a lot in the

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last episode. He is the fourth
child of five. He's kind of this.

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I mean, they're all pretty intelligent, but he went into the military,

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and he was the one that just
dropped his car off and said,

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here, destroy my car. Destroy
my car. Yeah, it's no good,

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even though we don't really know if
the car was bad or not.

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Josh and Mike were communicating using advanced
computer encryption that no one, not the

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police, the FBI, or even
the software manufacturer were able to decipher.

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Can you talk about this for a
second. I know you're not mister technology.

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I am not a computer cybersecurity expert
by anyone, but this, like,

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how rare is this? I don't
think it's that rare. I think

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I think so anyone could really do
this. Ton of messaging apps that use

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encrypted communications. I'm not sure about
this time frame, but there's a lot

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of messaging apps you can use that
basically use encryption. So Josh had a

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lot of his hard drives were encrypted, and these messages were encrypted. Josh's

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hard drives I believe had five terabytes
of information on them, and that's a

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that's a ton of information, right, A lot of bytes, billions of

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pay I mean, I know we've
talked about this before. It's video and

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photos, it's a lot of data. Yeah. Shortly after the Honk and

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Wave event, Alina sent several pages
of Susan's journals to the Associated Press.

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Remember these journals are like Susan's,
like teenage journals, and the teenage angst

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is real, and her parents didn't
want these released, right, No.

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The Powells claimed that Susan had been
abused during her childhood by her parents,

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causing her lifelong distress and low self
esteem. This was a step too far

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for Chuck and Judy. They had
never read the journals, but didn't want

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Susan's privacy violated. That filed a
civil lawsuit against the Powells. The judge

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ruled in the Coxes favor forbidding any
further publishing of Susan's journals. It's such

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a low thing to do, I
know, it really is another step of

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operations Tsunami involved the television station Fox
thirteen Seattle. The West Valley City Police

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Department gave inside information to Fox thirteen
and they were tasked with confronting Josh or

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Steve on air with the new information. Fox thirteen would own the footage and

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they could play it unedited on air
or online in exchange for playing their part,

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but the police would be allowed to
use the footage as evidence. This

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was the footage from the Honkin Wave. We don't know what this insider information

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was exactly, and the videos are
no longer available on Fox thirteen's website,

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disappointing. In May twenty eleven,
twenty officials from the FBI, US Marshalls

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and the West Valley City Police Department
raided Steve Powell's house. Those poor people,

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they have no idea what they're in
for. During the Honkin Wave event,

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Steve openly bragged about possessing Susan's journals
that he referred to as valuable evidence

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that proved Susan was mentally ill.
That was enough for a judge to issue

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a search warrant on Steve's home for
the journals. Conveniently, at the time

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of the raid, law enforcement made
sure Steve was out of the house.

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They arranged a false business opportunity for
him three hours away at a red lobster.

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Who could say no to a red
lobster? I wouldn't say no.

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The detectives knew they were sure to
intercept some incriminating phone calls on the wire

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tap between Josh, Steve, and
the other Powells. During the raid,

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Josh and his siblings sat anxiously in
the yard while their home was being searched.

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They knew there was a mountain of
damning evidence in the house. Pornography

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was in plain view, including pictures
of Susan, some with her head transposed

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onto images of nude women. In
John's room, a noose hung on the

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wall as a decoration, along with
the drawing of a woman with a sword

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through her vagina. He also kept
bags of hair and nail clippings. Oh

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my god, that's so creepy.
Josh's room was the neatest. Detectives asked

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Josh for his computer passwords. He
said he didn't remember them because they were

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too long and complicated. Some of
the passwords were retrieved, but not for

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the hard drives. Officers overheard Josh
tell his brother he was lying about forgetting

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his passwords. As they searched Steve
Powell's home, law enforcement found the dark

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truth about his fixation with Susan.
Following her disappearance, Steve's obsession with her

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morphed into a twisted attempt to justify
his extensive collection of photos, videos,

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and journals documenting her every move.
He painted Susan as a willing participant.

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He implied that she was a temptress
who had seduced him. Police and the

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00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:22.799
media didn't buy it. Of course, it seemed Steve thought of little else

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but Susan. He was a sick, delusional, perverted man. Susan journaled

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from childhood until the time of her
disappearance. Josh had brought the journals to

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Steve's house. Chuck and Judy asked
repeatedly for the journals to be returned to

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them, but Steve refused to give
them up. When Susan and Josh lived

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with him, Steve had stolen her
journals and scanned the pages into his computer.

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Investigators found more than forty five hundred
photos and videos of Susan that Steve

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had taken. He stole many of
her personal items, including her temple garments,

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which are considered sacred, nail clipping
and used tampons. Oh my god.

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He kept them in marked ziplock bags
in a locked filing cabinet in his

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bedroom. In photos from Josh and
Susan's wedding, Steve had cut Josh's face

285
00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:15.559
out of the pictures. If that's
not bad enough. Among his cash of

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00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:21.680
pornography were photos taken with a long
lens of neighbor children aged eight and nine

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00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:26.240
taking baths or using the toilet.
There were fourteen hundred photos of the girls.

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Oh my god, this guy,
he's so sick. He is.

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Yeah. Law enforcement seized financial records, flash drives, hard drives, fifteen

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00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:41.799
laptops and desktops, and nine of
Susan's journals. The detectives spent nine hours

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00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:47.200
searching the house and then opened a
safe deposit box at Steve's bank too,

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where they found another hard drive and
some handwritten notes. Do we have any

293
00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:53.599
secret hard drives laying around? Make
the amount of hard drives, I'm just

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baffled. I have one MacBook and
that's all. I do have, like

295
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one old hard drip that I used
to put all like when I would leave

296
00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:03.599
a job, I would put all
my stuff on this hard drive, so

297
00:22:03.640 --> 00:22:07.920
I had it. I shouldn't say
that because I'm not sure if that's technically

298
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okay to do, But I still
have that hard show. So finanas to

299
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me. How many computers there are
in this story? Can't get over it?

300
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Yeah, A handful of pornography was
found on one of Josh's computers.

301
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Pornography of a very specific variety toon
porn. Cartoon pornography is the portrayal of

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00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:33.480
illustrated or animated fictional cartoon characters in
erotic or sexual situations, sometimes portraying rape

303
00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:41.240
or other aggressive sexual situations. Animated
cartoon pornography or erotic animation is a subset

304
00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:45.960
of the larger field of adult animation, not all of which is sexually explicit.

305
00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:52.119
There were some four hundred tuon porn
images on Josh's computer. Well known

306
00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:56.559
cartoon characters from The Simpsons and The
Flintstones, Superman, and Dennis the Menace

307
00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:03.400
were depicted in a wide array of
sexual activities, including incest, group sex,

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00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:06.799
fallatio, and sodomy. I can't
believe you're making me read this.

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The majority of the cartoons depicted incest
or child molestation, but There were also

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00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:18.400
pictures of bondage and bestiality. The
images were drawings or computer generated, not

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00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:23.960
photographs, so it couldn't be defined
as explicit pornography. Isn't that the weirdest

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00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:27.279
thing? This whole story is just
it gets weirder and weirder, and this

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00:23:27.319 --> 00:23:33.279
whole family just they are just the
worst. How do you sexualize Dennis the

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menace? It's so weird. I
don't know, I don't know. During

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00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:41.519
the raid, the officers noted that
Charlie and Braden were ignored by the adults

316
00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:45.880
in the home as they all waited
outside. The boys were starved for affection

317
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and food. When the boys said
they were hungry, no one got them

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00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:55.400
food. The officers ordered pizza for
them and got them water. They played

319
00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:59.359
catch with the boys, who were
happy to have some attention. Braiden sat

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00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:03.119
in an office lap. The Powell
House posed a challenge for the investigators.

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00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:08.119
The house was orderly, but horder
like. Each room was lined with bookcases

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00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:12.799
that were filled with Steve's vast collection
of books. There were multiple computers in

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00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:18.160
each room, boxes and boxes filled
with files and paperwork. Officers needed to

324
00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:22.119
go through it all, and it
was daunting. Charlie and Braden shared a

325
00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:26.400
room at the house. They slept
together on a small futon. The room

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00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:32.039
was lined with more of Steve's stuffed
bookshelves. There were a few toys in

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00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:34.640
the room, but it didn't look
like a children's bedroom. The whole house

328
00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:40.880
looked unsafe and unwelcoming for a child. That just breaks my heart, because

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00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:45.359
these two boys have been through so
much, and the house, you know,

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00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:48.240
as you can tell from all of
these descriptions, was just not thous

331
00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:53.279
of horrors and not at all suited
for these two young young boys. No,

332
00:24:53.319 --> 00:24:59.000
not at all. Steve appeared on
Good Morning America. He talked about

333
00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:04.480
his relationship with Susan. Susan was
very very sexual with me. She was

334
00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:10.680
very flirtatious. I mean, I'm
her father in law, and she she

335
00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:15.160
would do a lot of things that
that I mean, she was just she

336
00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:18.119
did it. I did. I
mean, we we interacted in a lot

337
00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:23.440
of sexual ways because Susan enjoys doing
that. Do you think a part of

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00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:26.920
you started falling in love with Susan? That's pretty likely. Yeah, I

339
00:25:26.920 --> 00:25:30.599
mean I I yeah, I would
say so, and and and there's no

340
00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:37.000
question in my mind that the feelings
were mutual. This guy is so delusional,

341
00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:40.559
and how is the reporter not like
vomiting? I know, yeah,

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00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:45.200
I can't think of anything more delusional
than I've ever heard, No me neither.

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00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:49.039
Steve continued, quote, it was
definitely a romantic obsession. Yeah,

344
00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:52.759
you know, Susan's a beautiful woman, and when a beautiful woman comes on

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00:25:52.839 --> 00:25:56.960
to you like that, it's really
hard to resist that kind of thing.

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00:25:56.119 --> 00:26:00.880
Unquote. Steve told police during an
inn that he and Susan were in love

347
00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:06.160
and she was very sexual with him. His deepest desire was for her to

348
00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:11.799
be a wife to both Josh and
himself. Josh appeared on Dateline and rebuked

349
00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:15.319
his father's claims. He didn't show
up until after midnight for the interview,

350
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:21.799
by the way, which is crazy, Like Dateline set up time with him,

351
00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:25.119
and that was just Josh. He
did things on his own schedule and

352
00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:30.200
very strange. Josh was tired of
hearing Steve talk about Susan. After the

353
00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:34.440
raid, he and Steve fought over
the items found. Josh wasn't aware of

354
00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:38.400
the extent to which Steve had been
obsessed with Susan. He didn't know about

355
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:45.680
all the invasions of her privacy and
Steve's excessive voyeurism. On September twenty second,

356
00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:49.640
twenty eleven, Steve Powell, sixty
one, was arrested without incident and

357
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:56.559
charged with possession of child pornography and
fourteen counts of voyeurism. He was held

358
00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:00.839
on a two hundred thousand dollars cash
only bond. No one paid his bond.

359
00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:03.519
He remained in jail for many years
to come. I would like to

360
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:07.759
point out here that he was arrested
for the pornography charges about the little girls,

361
00:27:08.200 --> 00:27:12.640
nothing about the voyeurism with Susan Right
or any of the other weird stuff.

362
00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:18.680
Once Steve was arrested, detectives took
Charlie and Braden from the Powell home

363
00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:22.720
into protective custody. Yes, here's
how the officer recalled the event in his

364
00:27:22.839 --> 00:27:27.000
report quote. I turned around,
I saw Braden running for me, with

365
00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:32.319
his arms reaching out and a big
smile on his face. He immediately hugged

366
00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:34.400
me and I picked him up.
He told me that he was happy to

367
00:27:34.440 --> 00:27:38.319
see me again. I saw Charlie
near the van and he went to another

368
00:27:38.359 --> 00:27:42.599
detective, who picked him up.
Charlie was interested in seeing the police lights

369
00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:47.119
and did not want to be put
down. Neither of the boys had shoes

370
00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:49.640
on. I then went just inside
the door where I knew the shoes were

371
00:27:49.720 --> 00:27:53.759
kept. I saw mister Powell,
meaning Josh, in the garage, and

372
00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:57.640
he glared at me, but he
did not call out to Charlie. Charlie

373
00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:02.880
took no notice. Once inside,
Charlie helped pick out shoes for him and

374
00:28:02.920 --> 00:28:07.000
Braden. Braiden was chatty and giggly. He hugged me and told me he

375
00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:11.640
loved me. I explained that a
CPS caseworker was going to take them to

376
00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:15.920
a babysitter for a sleepover. Neither
of the boys seemed concerned, and they

377
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:18.000
were never upset. In fact,
they were quite happy to be going.

378
00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:22.680
They did not ask for their father
or any other family member. Charlie did

379
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:26.640
ask if the babysitters were Mormons.
I told him no, and he seemed

380
00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:33.799
pleased. Isn't that heartbreaking that these
officers that the boys have only met once

381
00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:37.200
before, they're so happy to see
them, like I'd love you and hugging

382
00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:41.480
them, and yeah, it is
incredibly heartbreaking. I'm so glad that they

383
00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:45.079
got them out. Me too.
Josh didn't say a word. He didn't

384
00:28:45.079 --> 00:28:48.160
say goodbye to his sons. He
didn't make sure that they had a bag

385
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:52.960
packed or had their favorite things.
He didn't even hug them or say goodbye.

386
00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:56.079
Charlie and Braden were sent to a
foster home, but they were soon

387
00:28:56.200 --> 00:29:00.960
placed with Chuck and Judy Cox.
Neighbors stood in their yards and watched the

388
00:29:02.039 --> 00:29:06.359
drama unfold. As the police car
pulled away from the house. They watched

389
00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:11.160
as Josh kicked his van for the
next thirty minutes. After a tense court

390
00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:15.000
hearing between Josh and the Coxes,
Chuck and Judy won temporary custody of Charlie

391
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:26.519
and Braden. We'll be back after
a break. Chuck and Judy were thrilled

392
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:30.759
to have the boys live with them
in the house that their mother had once

393
00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:34.279
lived in. However, things didn't
go as smoothly as they'd hoped. They

394
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:37.440
had no idea what the boys had
been exposed to in the year and a

395
00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:41.880
half that they had lived with Steve
Powell in his House of Horrors. On

396
00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:45.519
the first night at their house,
after they'd bathed and put on their pajamas,

397
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:49.799
Chuck found the boys running around the
room naked. He had to calmly

398
00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:53.359
tell them it wasn't normal. They
told Chuck that their dad had let them

399
00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:57.720
sleep naked with them in his bed
when Josh was also naked. Johnny,

400
00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:03.039
Josh's mentally ill brother, was also
known to walk around the Powellhouse naked.

401
00:30:03.160 --> 00:30:07.400
The boys resisted authority and routine,
They had night terrors, and because of

402
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:14.000
their foster child status, they were
both subjected to physical and psychological examinations.

403
00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:19.319
Braden had a rash called moloscomb contagiosum. It's caused by a virus common in

404
00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:26.079
children and easily spread by physical contact
or by sharing bedding or towels. Small

405
00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:30.519
wartlike bumps erupt over the skin that
may or may not become red, swollen,

406
00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:33.680
and itchy. There may only be
a few bumps in a generalized area

407
00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:37.359
or many spread all over the body, most often found on the arms,

408
00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:41.160
trunk, and face. The rash
can last between six to twelve months and

409
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:48.839
usually disappears without medical treatment. Adults
with moluscomb contagiosum may have bumps on their

410
00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:53.279
groin area and spread the rash to
their partners sexually. Brayden did not go

411
00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:59.039
to daycare or have much contact with
other children. Charlie did not have the

412
00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:03.599
rash. The doctor said that the
possibility of sexual abuse could not be ruled

413
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:07.960
out in Brayden, but the rash
was not in his genital area. All

414
00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:11.119
that to say that we're not sure
how he got this rash. It could

415
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:15.519
have been a benign reason, but
it's also possible that he was sexually abused.

416
00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:21.599
The pediatrician noted that both boys were
rambunctious and hard to control. In

417
00:31:21.640 --> 00:31:26.039
the confines of the office, they
were jumping and running and open drawers and

418
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:30.200
cabinets. The doctor stopped short of
diagnosing Charlie nearly seven at this time,

419
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:37.319
with ADHD, but recommended that if
his focus and behavioral issues continued, he

420
00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:41.240
should see a child psychiatrist. Charlie
was inquisitive. He enjoyed bugs in nature

421
00:31:41.240 --> 00:31:47.200
and being read to. However,
he lacked empathy and had trouble interpreting social

422
00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:51.720
situations. He didn't like to share
and took things that didn't belong to him.

423
00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:56.559
Brayden, almost five, had more
overt behavioral issues than Charlie. The

424
00:31:56.680 --> 00:32:00.160
Coxes didn't have any pets, but
there was concern he might harm an animal.

425
00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:06.359
He cried easily and had tantrums.
He also lacked empathy and had violent

426
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:10.000
outbursts. He liked to hurt other
children and adults. On one occasion,

427
00:32:10.039 --> 00:32:15.279
he punched a social worker square in
the mouth. He was affectionate, but

428
00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:20.640
might as easily bite someone. He
had an advanced knowledge about sex. Both

429
00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:25.599
boys had concerning behavioral issues and difficulty
with impulse control. Charlie and Braden both

430
00:32:25.640 --> 00:32:30.400
remembered their mother and lovingly talked about
her. Charlie told the children at school

431
00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:35.640
that his mother was dead and that
the Mormons had killed her. So Charlie

432
00:32:35.720 --> 00:32:39.640
talked a lot about Mormons. So
you know that in Steve's house they talked

433
00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:45.599
about Mormon right, yes, yeah, yeah. Josh was relentless in his

434
00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:50.960
attempts to regain custody of his children. Defeating Chuck Cox mattered more than Charlie

435
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:54.960
and Braden's well being. Josh called
the Coxes quote the most dangerous people on

436
00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:59.960
the planet. He told the judge
that the boys were better off anywhere others

437
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:04.200
than with Chuck and Judy. Josh
had to be evaluated by a psychologist.

438
00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:10.519
He was diagnosed with anxiety adjustment disorder
and narcissistic personality disorder. Adjustment disorder is

439
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:15.160
also called situational depression. It often
occurs when someone is going through a major

440
00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:20.799
life event, like the death of
a loved one or a divorce. Terry,

441
00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:24.279
Josh's mom, wrote to the court
in support of Josh, despite Jennifer's

442
00:33:24.319 --> 00:33:28.880
protests. I don't think we've talked
about Jennifer yet this episode. Jennifer is

443
00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:31.519
Josh's sister, the oldest Powell child. She was like the black sheep of

444
00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:35.680
the family, right, well,
yeah, yeah, she was estrange from

445
00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:39.920
everyone, Terry said, quote.
In my experience, Josh is a loving

446
00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.640
and very engaged father in the care
of his sons, and Charlie and Braden

447
00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:47.680
are happy, well adjusted, at
vibrant children, even though they missed their

448
00:33:47.720 --> 00:33:52.839
mother. Terry was still living with
Jennifer at this time. Jennifer was so

449
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:58.400
infuriated by her mother's support of Josh
that she kicked her out of her house.

450
00:33:58.519 --> 00:34:01.640
Wow. Josh was allowed to have
a weekly supervised visit with the boys

451
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:07.079
during this time of transition. The
Washington State Department of Social and Health Services

452
00:34:07.320 --> 00:34:14.400
DSHS supervise the visits. The boys
returned from the visits with their father embolden.

453
00:34:14.599 --> 00:34:17.360
They said things to Chuck and Judy
like quote, don't mess with Josh

454
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:22.760
or you'll end up dead. Wow. The psychological evaluation determined that Josh was

455
00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:27.960
not a danger to his sons.
The report said that he quote had excellent

456
00:34:28.039 --> 00:34:32.639
parenting and interpersonal skills, but failed
to consistently place his children's needs for an

457
00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:37.280
emotional, safe, and stable environment
ahead of his own needs end quote.

458
00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:44.440
Sadly, DSHS and the West Valley
City Police Department had limited communication during the

459
00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:50.519
investigation. DSHS was not aware that
Josh was the prime suspect in Susan's disappearance.

460
00:34:51.199 --> 00:34:53.840
However, Josh had been less than
honest during his evaluation with the psychologist.

461
00:34:54.639 --> 00:35:00.840
Somehow he managed to beat the system. Josh was granted supervise visits twice

462
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:04.719
a week under the condition that he
not live in Steve's house. Josh rented

463
00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:07.199
a house in poll Up, just
a few miles away from Steve's house.

464
00:35:08.320 --> 00:35:13.000
Doctor Elizabeth Griffinhall was the social worker
assigned to the Powell case. She was

465
00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:15.519
a mother to four and adopted parent
to ten, and a foster parent.

466
00:35:16.159 --> 00:35:20.480
She loved Charlie and Braden, and
they loved her too. She found that

467
00:35:20.599 --> 00:35:24.480
Josh was anxious during the visits and
planned every activity. He was often trying

468
00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:30.920
to teach the boys something above their
age or interest level. Elizabeth continuously had

469
00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:35.199
to remind Josh to be present with
the boys and not to interrogate them about

470
00:35:35.239 --> 00:35:39.199
their life with the Coxes. These
visits with Josh terrified Chuck and Judy.

471
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:44.280
They didn't like the idea of Josh
visiting with the boys with just one other

472
00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:51.000
person present, especially an older woman. Chuck stealthily followed Elizabeth on one visit

473
00:35:51.079 --> 00:35:55.199
and saw Josh in the backyard with
Charlie and Braden without Elizabeth. She said

474
00:35:55.199 --> 00:35:59.239
that she was in the bathroom,
but Chuck warned her that Josh couldn't be

475
00:35:59.320 --> 00:36:02.440
left alone with the boys for even
a minute. Josh wrote the boys a

476
00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:06.760
letter every day that he wasn't with
them. Here's one of the letters,

477
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:09.840
quote, Charlie, I sure miss
you. I was thinking of ways to

478
00:36:09.880 --> 00:36:13.719
stay close to you. Boys.
You could tell me in your letters what

479
00:36:13.719 --> 00:36:16.000
you want me to bring to our
next visit, perhaps a toy or a

480
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:20.920
certain kind of food. Everything I
do is for you. I love you,

481
00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:23.639
and I'm working hard to see you
more. Love Daddy, So touching.

482
00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:29.079
On December third, twenty eleven,
almost two years to the day since

483
00:36:29.079 --> 00:36:32.280
Susan's disappearance, Josh sent a letter
to his brother Mike. He told him

484
00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:37.079
about some changes to his life insurance
policies. If something should happen to Josh,

485
00:36:37.480 --> 00:36:42.639
Mike would receive ninety three percent of
the payout or two point three two

486
00:36:42.679 --> 00:36:47.320
five million dollars, Elena four percent
or one hundred thousand dollars, and Johnny

487
00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:52.360
three percent seventy five thousand dollars of
Josh's two point five million dollar life insurance

488
00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:57.400
payout. I had to do math
there, yeah. Nice. Notably absent

489
00:36:57.440 --> 00:37:00.840
were Steve, Terry, Charlie,
and Brayden. He told Mike he trusted

490
00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:05.559
him to do the right thing by
the children. Mike never called or questioned

491
00:37:05.639 --> 00:37:09.320
Josh as to why he made the
sudden change. On February first, twenty

492
00:37:09.320 --> 00:37:14.039
twelve, there was a custody hearing
in the Powell case. Originally scheduled for

493
00:37:14.119 --> 00:37:17.320
November, the hearing had been postponed
twice. Josh felt a new sense of

494
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:21.920
confidence and peace that by the end
of the day, Charlie and Braden would

495
00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:25.000
be returned to him. However,
by the time Josh reached the courtroom,

496
00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:30.119
his hopes were dashed when his attorney
told him that the judge was going to

497
00:37:30.199 --> 00:37:36.239
request further psychological testing. The judge
was also requiring him to undergo a polygraphic

498
00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:43.400
examination as well as a PPG or
a penile plusmograph, also called a psycho

499
00:37:43.599 --> 00:37:47.360
sexual exam. A PPG is a
two hour test that measures blood flow to

500
00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:53.480
the penis while the subject is shown
normal sexual situations as well as deviant situations.

501
00:37:54.320 --> 00:38:00.119
Josh was crestfallen. He knew this
latest roadblock would push his custom you

502
00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:02.440
fight back several months, and of
course he knew it was unlikely that he

503
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:08.039
would pass a polygraph let alone.
The PPG test Isn't that crazy? It

504
00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:12.960
is, I've never heard of that
test before. He attached like something to

505
00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:15.880
your penis and it you know,
Yeah, it was if you're aroused or

506
00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:19.079
not. So they're basically trying to
determine I'm guessing, like if he was

507
00:38:19.360 --> 00:38:24.840
aroused by things like child. Yeah. On February second, twenty twelve,

508
00:38:24.920 --> 00:38:29.079
Josh wrote another letter to Mike,
giving him the rights to his life story

509
00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:32.840
and any intellectual properties. Josh thought
there might be an opportunity in the future

510
00:38:32.920 --> 00:38:37.159
to make money from his life story. Josh always looking for an opportunity to

511
00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:43.199
make a buck, On February fourth, Josh withdrew seven thousand dollars from his

512
00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:46.400
bank account. He asked for it
in one hundred dollars bills. He transferred

513
00:38:46.400 --> 00:38:51.119
the remainder of the money in his
bank account to Alina's. He went to

514
00:38:51.159 --> 00:38:54.320
his storage unit, sorted through his
belongings and threw some things away. He

515
00:38:54.440 --> 00:38:58.639
dropped some of Charlie and Braden's toys
and books off at the Salvation Army and

516
00:38:58.679 --> 00:39:02.800
Goodwill. Last stop was the gas
station. He filled two five gallon gas

517
00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:07.960
cans. Chuck and Judy Cox were
concerned about Charlie and Braden's visitation with Josh.

518
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:13.039
After the way the custody hearing had
turned out with Josh a few days

519
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:16.039
earlier, they knew all too well
what he was capable of. They called

520
00:39:16.039 --> 00:39:21.760
his social worker and voice their concerns. She brushed off their concerns and reminded

521
00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:24.880
them that Josh had been following protocol
recently and wouldn't do anything to jeopardize his

522
00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:30.400
custody fight. The Coxes had expanded
their house to make a larger room for

523
00:39:30.440 --> 00:39:34.159
the boys. The night of February
fourth, twenty twelve, was only their

524
00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:37.639
second night in the new room.
It would be the last time their grandparents

525
00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:42.920
tucked their Susan's beloved sons into their
beds. After a rough start months earlier,

526
00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:45.920
the boys were doing well and had
settled into their new routine. Charlie

527
00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:50.599
was tucked under his new Spider Man
quilt and Braiden his Lightning mc queen quilt.

528
00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:54.039
Chuck stood for a moment longer to
watch his grandsons observing their beauty for

529
00:39:54.079 --> 00:39:59.079
a final time before he turned out
the lake. On the morning of Sunday,

530
00:39:59.119 --> 00:40:02.280
February fifth, Super Bowl Sunday,
Elizabeth Griffin Hall came to pick up

531
00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:06.800
Charlie and Braden for their visit with
Josh. Chuck was at church, but

532
00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:08.719
the boys told Judy they didn't want
to see their father. That day,

533
00:40:09.400 --> 00:40:14.280
before the boy's arrival, Josh sent
out a series of emails to his boss,

534
00:40:14.360 --> 00:40:16.960
his attorney, some family members,
and his pastor friend Tim Atkins.

535
00:40:17.559 --> 00:40:22.440
The emails all said the same thing, I'm sorry, goodbye. Elena received

536
00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:27.320
several emails Josh let the money he'd
withdrawn the day before and asked her to

537
00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:30.880
pay some bills for him. He
left her a final voicemail, Hello,

538
00:40:31.039 --> 00:40:39.239
this is Josh. I'm I'm going
to say goodbye. I am, but

539
00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:50.960
not without my life, and I'm
not able to go on anymore. I'm

540
00:40:50.960 --> 00:40:57.639
sorry to everyone I've hurt. Goodbye. That's tough. A cousin who'd received

541
00:40:57.679 --> 00:41:00.239
an email from Josh called nine one
one, but he did know Josh's address.

542
00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:06.400
Elizabeth pulled up to Josh's house at
eleven fifty seven am. The boys

543
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:08.159
jumped out of the car and ran
to Josh, who stood on the front

544
00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:13.840
porch. He shrugged his shoulders at
Elizabeth. While she was exiting her vehicle

545
00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:16.159
and trying to catch up with the
boys, he closed and locked the door.

546
00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:20.760
When she reached the door, she
could hear Josh say, Charlie,

547
00:41:20.800 --> 00:41:23.719
I've got a big surprise for you. She pounded on the door and frantically

548
00:41:23.800 --> 00:41:28.400
rang the doorbell. Josh knew the
rules. He wasn't allowed to be with

549
00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:30.960
the boys alone. As she continued
to pound on the door, she heard

550
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:36.280
a scream. She thought it was
from Brayden. She could distinctly smell gasoline

551
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:38.519
in the air. Elizabeth ran to
her car to get her cell phone.

552
00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:43.320
She called her supervisor and then quickly
called nine one one. At twelve o

553
00:41:43.400 --> 00:41:49.239
eight pm, David loverack an eighteen
year veteran with emergency services answered the call.

554
00:41:49.719 --> 00:41:52.480
We're going to play the call now. It's seven minutes long and it

555
00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:57.119
is hard to hear. Okay,
Hey, I'm on a ship of myne

556
00:41:57.239 --> 00:42:00.880
visitation for a cord ordered to visit, and something really weird has happened.

557
00:42:00.920 --> 00:42:05.920
The kids went into the house and
the parents, the biological parent, whose

558
00:42:05.960 --> 00:42:09.800
name is Josh Powell, will not
let me in the door. What should

559
00:42:09.800 --> 00:42:15.920
I do? It's eight one one
nine and I think it's eighty nine.

560
00:42:17.199 --> 00:42:21.280
I don't know what the address is. Okay, that's important for me to

561
00:42:21.320 --> 00:42:24.599
know, So I can't just gonna
let me get my car and see if

562
00:42:24.639 --> 00:42:30.199
I can. If I can't find
it, I'm nothing like this has ever

563
00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:38.039
happened before, uh these visitations,
So I'm really shocked. And I could

564
00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:42.320
hear one of the kids crying,
but they still wouldn't let me in.

565
00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:51.840
Okay, it is uh one oh
to Sineta, I have it here.

566
00:42:53.039 --> 00:43:07.719
You can't find me by GPS.
Nope, Yeah, okay it is.

567
00:43:09.159 --> 00:43:20.480
I still can't find it, but
I think kind of need help right away.

568
00:43:20.559 --> 00:43:24.880
He he's on a very short least
for CSAHs and CPS has been involved

569
00:43:25.159 --> 00:43:29.119
and this is the craziest thing.
He looked, drive out me and closed

570
00:43:29.119 --> 00:43:32.000
the door. Are you there,
yes, ma'am. I'm just waiting to

571
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:36.480
know where you are. Okay.
It's eight one one nine one eighty nine

572
00:43:36.599 --> 00:43:42.280
straight or e pure hours nine eight
three seven five. And I'd like to

573
00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:45.840
pull out of the driveway cause they
smell gasoline and he won't let me in.

574
00:43:46.519 --> 00:43:50.239
You wanna pull out of the driveway
because you smell gasoline, but he

575
00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:53.000
won't let you. He won't let
me in. He won't let you out

576
00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:58.280
of the driveway. He won't let
me in the house. Who the kids

577
00:43:58.280 --> 00:44:00.920
in the house and he won't let
me in. It's supervised, is it?

578
00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:05.760
I understand? Whose house is it? Josh Powell? Okay, so

579
00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:08.760
you don't live there, right,
No, I don't know. I'm contracted

580
00:44:08.800 --> 00:44:14.599
to the state to provide supervised visitation. I see, okay. And and

581
00:44:14.679 --> 00:44:20.079
who is there to exercise their visitation? I am uh. And the visit

582
00:44:20.159 --> 00:44:25.519
is with Josh Powell and the husband
that I supervised. So you supervised and

583
00:44:25.559 --> 00:44:31.079
you're doing the visit. Yeah,
I supervise yourself. I supervised myself on

584
00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:37.239
the supervisor. Here, Wait a
minute, the supervised visit you can't supervise

585
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:43.960
yourself if you're supervise myself. I'm
the supervisor to the supervised visit. Okay,

586
00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:45.400
well aren't you the one making Aren't
you the one making the visit?

587
00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:51.800
Or is there another your supervisor?
Then I'm the one that supervises. I

588
00:44:51.880 --> 00:44:57.480
picked up the kids. That's their
grandparents. And then who visits with the

589
00:44:57.559 --> 00:45:02.360
children Josh Powell. Okay, so
you're supposed to be there to supervise Josh

590
00:45:02.440 --> 00:45:07.840
Powell visit with the children. Yes, that's cract. And how and here's

591
00:45:07.880 --> 00:45:14.199
the husband of missing Susan Powell.
How did how this is the high profile

592
00:45:14.360 --> 00:45:17.599
case. How did he? How
did he gain access to the children before

593
00:45:17.599 --> 00:45:23.360
you got I was one step in
back of them. Okay, so I

594
00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:28.199
walked you out? Yeah, he
hut the door right in my face.

595
00:45:29.360 --> 00:45:38.840
Your last name, my name is
Elizabeth Griffon Hall Ritt and Hall is hyphenated

596
00:45:39.800 --> 00:45:47.920
yes. And what's your phone number, Elizabeth? This cell phone number is

597
00:45:47.960 --> 00:45:54.360
three six zero nine nine zero nine
nine five. And what agents near you

598
00:45:54.440 --> 00:46:06.599
with bust to carry first network?
And the kids have been in there approx

599
00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:15.199
By now, approximately ten minutes.
And he knows that it was supervised visit

600
00:46:15.559 --> 00:46:34.519
to Braydon is five and Charlie is
seven, and the dead last name Powell

601
00:46:34.599 --> 00:46:39.760
p O W E L L who
will two L's at hand of Powel.

602
00:46:40.639 --> 00:46:50.239
Yes, his name, his first
name is Josh Black white dad, he's

603
00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:58.239
white. I don't know. He's
about thirty nine for five ten, one

604
00:46:58.360 --> 00:47:06.119
hundred and fifty pounds. Yeah,
hair color brown. Did you notice what

605
00:47:06.199 --> 00:47:10.239
he was wearing? No? I
didn't notice what he was wearing. Is

606
00:47:10.280 --> 00:47:14.599
he alone or is anybody? I
don't know. I couldn't get in the

607
00:47:14.639 --> 00:47:30.559
house. You'll pre in a vehicle. Now we're on Twitter. I'm in

608
00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:37.079
a vehicle. I'm in a Trius
on over TI ten trios color. The

609
00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:39.440
doors locked, but he won't.
He has and opened the door. I

610
00:47:39.519 --> 00:47:45.159
rang on the doorbell and everything.
Take him to let me in. Please

611
00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:50.000
listen to my questions. What color
is the toyleta Prius gray? Start gray?

612
00:47:50.239 --> 00:48:02.239
And the license number? I don't
know. I can look HM seven

613
00:48:04.760 --> 00:48:09.440
h vibra Mary Henry. Yeah,
all right, we'll have somebody look for

614
00:48:09.480 --> 00:48:13.679
you there. Okay, how long
will it be? I don't know.

615
00:48:13.719 --> 00:48:16.800
Man. They have to respond to
emergency, life threatening situations first the first

616
00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:22.440
available deputy. It could be life
threatening. He went to court on Wednesday

617
00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:29.320
and he hits back and this is
really I'm a great for their lives,

618
00:48:29.559 --> 00:48:32.360
Okay, has he threatened the lives
of the children previously? I have no

619
00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:37.360
idea. All right, we'll have
the first available deputy contact to thank you.

620
00:48:39.239 --> 00:48:44.239
I find myself so so angry listening
to that had to be filled with

621
00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:49.400
rage. Ultimately, the only person
that was responsible for the events that we're

622
00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:52.039
about to talk about is Josh Powell. I guess so, but I'm just

623
00:48:52.079 --> 00:48:58.400
so I just feel like that nine
one one operator did not handle that correctly.

624
00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:00.440
I don't I don't know if you
went by protocol or not, but

625
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:04.760
it just did not seem right to
me. Right well, the call took

626
00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:08.599
seven minutes. Have love Reck dispatched
emergency responders as soon as he'd picked up

627
00:49:08.639 --> 00:49:12.639
the call. The outcome may have
been different, but we'll never know.

628
00:49:13.239 --> 00:49:15.920
Elizabeth moved her car down the street
just in time. At twelve sixteen,

629
00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:20.840
the neighborhood shook as a loud boom
ripped through the air. Josh Powell's rented

630
00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:23.480
house went up in a sea of
flames, the sky dark and his dark

631
00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:29.559
smoke filled the air. Projectiles and
ash flew through the air windows exploded from

632
00:49:29.599 --> 00:49:32.920
the heat of the growing fire.
Elizabeth, shocked and devastated, felt helpless

633
00:49:32.920 --> 00:49:37.440
as she called nine one one again
with tears traveling down her face. Those

634
00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:42.000
were my babies, she cried.
Elizabeth ran to the neighbors to ask for

635
00:49:42.079 --> 00:49:45.480
help getting the boys out of the
house. Alina Powell called nine one one

636
00:49:45.480 --> 00:49:50.840
at twelve twenty one pm after she'd
received the voicemail from Josh, but she

637
00:49:51.039 --> 00:49:54.480
was too late. She didn't know
Josh's address either. When the fired department

638
00:49:54.559 --> 00:49:59.000
arrived at twelve twenty two, the
fire was burning so fiercely that they could

639
00:49:59.079 --> 00:50:02.639
do nothing to stop. The same
police officer that had played catch with the

640
00:50:02.639 --> 00:50:07.000
boys on the day Steve Powell's house
was raided, carried the bodies of Charlie

641
00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:12.199
and Braden out of the house wrapped
in sheets. By the time Chuck Cox

642
00:50:12.280 --> 00:50:16.000
arrived at the house, only rubble
remained. He and Judy held out hope

643
00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:21.480
that the boys had somehow been rescued
and taken to the hospital. Hours later,

644
00:50:21.519 --> 00:50:23.719
the police arrived at their house and
told them the boys and Josh were

645
00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:29.599
dead. Some people thought it had
been a horrible accident, but Chuck and

646
00:50:29.679 --> 00:50:32.480
Judy knew better. They knew all
too well the evil that Josh Powell was

647
00:50:32.519 --> 00:50:38.320
capable of inflicting. As the news
traveled to West Valley City, Kersey Helliwell,

648
00:50:38.440 --> 00:50:45.320
Susan's best friend Debbie Caldwell, Charlie
and Braden's beloved daycare provider, Jovanna

649
00:50:45.400 --> 00:50:50.159
Owings, the last person to see
Susan alive, and others gathered and cried

650
00:50:50.199 --> 00:50:54.320
together, remembering their friends. If
anyone had any small grain of doubt that

651
00:50:54.480 --> 00:50:59.559
Josh had killed Susan, it was
gone now. The murder suicide, it

652
00:50:59.599 --> 00:51:05.280
seemed, was an admission of guilt. Law enforcement visited Steve Powell in jail

653
00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:08.920
after Josh and the boys died.
They were hoping he would finally cooperate in

654
00:51:08.960 --> 00:51:15.119
the investigation. He was shown crime
scene photos, He displayed no emotion.

655
00:51:15.840 --> 00:51:20.159
He refused to talk. He was
put on suicide watch at the jail where

656
00:51:20.159 --> 00:51:24.199
he awaited trial. Josh had not
tried to contact his father before his death.

657
00:51:25.199 --> 00:51:30.639
Many wondered if Josh left a confession, but he did not. A

658
00:51:30.679 --> 00:51:35.199
memorial of cards, letters, hand
drawn pictures, flowers, toys, and

659
00:51:35.239 --> 00:51:39.800
stuffed animals was left for Charlie and
Braden outside of Josh's rented house. A

660
00:51:39.840 --> 00:51:45.039
fence was erected around the crime scene
to protect evidence. Charlie and Braden were

661
00:51:45.079 --> 00:51:50.079
found on a burned mattress at the
rear of the house. It appeared that

662
00:51:50.119 --> 00:51:53.880
they had been holding hands. On
the mattress was a hatchet and two knives.

663
00:51:54.679 --> 00:51:59.079
Both boys had been attacked with the
hatchet at the back of their heads.

664
00:52:00.039 --> 00:52:02.559
Part of their skulls were missing.
However, they didn't die from the

665
00:52:02.599 --> 00:52:07.280
hatchet wounds. They died of smoke
inhalation, with the hatchet injuries as a

666
00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:12.599
contributing factor. It was determined that
they were alive at the time of the

667
00:52:12.639 --> 00:52:16.360
fire. Soot and gas were found
in their lungs. Josh had doused them

668
00:52:16.360 --> 00:52:22.960
with gasoline after he'd struck them with
the hatchet. Josh's body was severely burned.

669
00:52:22.239 --> 00:52:27.280
He had poured gas from one of
the two five gallon gasoline cans throughout

670
00:52:27.320 --> 00:52:30.440
the house after he sat on the
other gas can and lit a match.

671
00:52:32.079 --> 00:52:37.880
Absolutely horrific. I have no words
for just the horror of what happened to

672
00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:43.719
these poor babies. It's so heartbreaking
and just so unnecessary. Yeah, that's

673
00:52:43.760 --> 00:52:46.639
what I was going to say.
Why Why Josh, why couldn't you just

674
00:52:46.679 --> 00:52:52.239
let your kids live? You know? On February eleventh, on a cold

675
00:52:52.280 --> 00:52:55.239
and rainy Saturday, the funeral for
Charlie and Braden was held. They were

676
00:52:55.280 --> 00:53:00.679
placed in a single coffin with a
spray of orange gerber daisies. Orange was

677
00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:06.039
Braiden's favorite color. Over two thousand
mourners attended the funeral, many wearing purple

678
00:53:06.119 --> 00:53:09.599
in honor of Susan. Charlie and
Braden's teachers both spoke at their funeral.

679
00:53:10.360 --> 00:53:15.039
Charlie's teacher spoke first. He was
an amazing young man. He had an

680
00:53:15.079 --> 00:53:21.039
appreciation for nature that I have never
seen in someone so young. He loved

681
00:53:21.119 --> 00:53:25.360
rocks, sticks, leaves, and
bugs. He collected these items at recess

682
00:53:25.559 --> 00:53:29.719
and always had a hard time parting
with them when it was time to return

683
00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:32.760
to class. He often left them
by the outside door so he could play

684
00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:37.400
with them later. On many occasions, he tried to sneak a worm or

685
00:53:37.480 --> 00:53:43.360
caterpillar into the class. He was
a good sport whenever I caught him,

686
00:53:43.719 --> 00:53:46.719
and he would make sure the bug
was safe and sound before joining the class.

687
00:53:47.079 --> 00:53:52.239
He loved learning facts. He called
nonfiction books real books, and he

688
00:53:52.320 --> 00:53:58.840
had an amazing ability to remember what
he learned. It was obvious that Bredon

689
00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:02.480
loved his grandparents. At the end
of each preschool day, he would look

690
00:54:02.480 --> 00:54:07.480
out the window to wait for his
grandma to pick him up, telling everyone

691
00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:12.440
how much funny had with them and
how much he loved them. He just

692
00:54:12.559 --> 00:54:17.119
leapt into her waiting arms. He
had a heart of gold, always wanting

693
00:54:17.159 --> 00:54:22.719
to show affection. Braiden liked to
hold his teacher's hand and not let go.

694
00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:30.280
He was kindly with his grandparents,
aunts and cousins, Teachers, classmates,

695
00:54:30.400 --> 00:54:34.440
and even first time visitors to the
house were showered with Braiden's hugs and

696
00:54:34.480 --> 00:54:38.360
I love yous and always there was
that big, beautiful smile on a face

697
00:54:38.599 --> 00:54:43.480
so like his mother's. Well,
that is a job no teacher should have

698
00:54:43.480 --> 00:54:47.119
to do. No, definitely not
At the funeral, Chuck said, quote.

699
00:54:47.320 --> 00:54:51.559
Throughout this trial, we felt the
support of so many people around the

700
00:54:51.559 --> 00:54:54.840
world. We want to express our
sincere gratitude. It helps us to know

701
00:54:54.960 --> 00:54:59.480
there are good people in the world, good people who fight against evil.

702
00:55:00.079 --> 00:55:04.199
Everyone was doing everything they possibly could
do to keep them safe. We thank

703
00:55:04.239 --> 00:55:07.800
you very much. We know they're
with their mother. Unquote. Before the

704
00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:13.119
coffin was lowered into the earth.
The boys cousins placed stickers over the coffin

705
00:55:13.199 --> 00:55:17.000
of their favorite characters, mostly Spider
Man and other good guys. When Susan

706
00:55:17.119 --> 00:55:21.639
is found, there is a plot
next to Charlie and Braden's for her final

707
00:55:21.719 --> 00:55:25.239
resting place. The Coxes were ready
for a fight to prevent the Powells from

708
00:55:25.320 --> 00:55:30.280
burying Josh anywhere next to the boys. Funds were raised by a nonprofit group

709
00:55:30.320 --> 00:55:35.960
to purchase plots in the cemetery to
deter the Powells from burying Josh there.

710
00:55:36.519 --> 00:55:39.800
In the end, his family decided
to have his remains cremated. Well,

711
00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:44.760
you are made of iron to get
through that section. It's tough. It

712
00:55:44.800 --> 00:55:54.599
is tough. We'll be back after
a break. Michael Powell, the youngest

713
00:55:54.599 --> 00:55:59.719
Powell, joined the Army in two
thousand and two and worked in military intelligence

714
00:55:59.760 --> 00:56:05.039
and the Army for five years.
He was exceptionally bright and had likely coached

715
00:56:05.159 --> 00:56:09.199
Josh on how to handle police interviews. Susan had called him the sane one

716
00:56:09.239 --> 00:56:14.360
in the family. After leaving the
Army, he majored in international studies at

717
00:56:14.400 --> 00:56:17.320
the University of Washington. He was
an ambitious young man and seemed to have

718
00:56:17.440 --> 00:56:22.719
escaped Steve Powell's house the least scathed, but he was still fiercely loyal to

719
00:56:22.800 --> 00:56:27.639
his family and was always there when
one of them needed help. In two

720
00:56:27.679 --> 00:56:30.599
thousand and eight, he ran for
state legislature. He won the primary but

721
00:56:30.679 --> 00:56:36.320
lost the general election. However,
he was chosen as one of nine delegates

722
00:56:36.320 --> 00:56:40.920
from the state of Washington during the
Democratic National Convention in Denver. In twenty

723
00:56:40.960 --> 00:56:45.760
twelve, Mike, almost thirty,
enrolled at the University of Minnesota into a

724
00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:51.480
pH d program for cognitive science.
Detectives from the West Valley City Police Department

725
00:56:51.559 --> 00:56:55.000
visited him. He was calm but
not forthcoming until they asked him about his

726
00:56:55.079 --> 00:57:01.199
board touris. He suddenly began shaking. Learned that Mike went missing from December

727
00:57:01.239 --> 00:57:05.119
fourth through the twelfth. We talked
about that earlier, the same week that

728
00:57:05.159 --> 00:57:09.079
Susan went missing. On February thirteenth, twenty thirteen, a year after Josh

729
00:57:09.079 --> 00:57:14.559
had killed his sons and ended his
life, Michael Powell, thirty jumped from

730
00:57:14.559 --> 00:57:19.159
a seven story parking structure. He
died on impact. At the time of

731
00:57:19.199 --> 00:57:22.320
his death, he was embroiled in
a lawsuit with the Cox family over the

732
00:57:22.360 --> 00:57:25.719
life insurance money from Josh, Susan
and the boys. Steve was told of

733
00:57:25.760 --> 00:57:30.440
his son's death and said, oh
my God, Oh my God. Then,

734
00:57:30.480 --> 00:57:34.119
in true Steve fashion, he blamed
law enforcement for the stress from their

735
00:57:34.159 --> 00:57:38.400
ongoing investigation that caused Mike to take
his own life. Mike knew the police

736
00:57:38.440 --> 00:57:43.960
investigation was now focused on him and
they were closed to an arrest. He

737
00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:47.599
did not leave a note, and
we don't know what evidence that the police

738
00:57:47.599 --> 00:57:52.199
had against Mike. After the deaths
of Josh, Charlie, and Braden,

739
00:57:52.239 --> 00:57:57.880
while Steve sat in jail awaiting trial, he was approached by prosecutors to make

740
00:57:57.920 --> 00:58:01.599
a possible plea deal in exchange for
information about with Susan's death and whereabouts,

741
00:58:02.039 --> 00:58:07.960
but he refused. Steve's trial began
in May twenty twelve. The judge was

742
00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:12.320
cautious with the jury because Steve was
a high profile defendant. He reminded the

743
00:58:12.360 --> 00:58:15.320
jury that Steve was not on trial
for murdering Susan. He didn't want them

744
00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:20.760
to be prejudiced against Steve for Josh's
crime. The judge threw out the pornography

745
00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:24.920
charge. Steve now only faced the
fourteen count voyeurism charge. His attorney alleged

746
00:58:24.960 --> 00:58:28.920
that anyone in the Powell house could
have taken those photos of the girls.

747
00:58:29.559 --> 00:58:32.280
Steve did not to testify in his
own behalf. He showed little to no

748
00:58:32.360 --> 00:58:37.000
emotion during the trial. Jennifer,
the oldest Powell child, testified for the

749
00:58:37.039 --> 00:58:42.719
prosecution. Alena came to court every
day of the trial. After six hours

750
00:58:42.719 --> 00:58:46.679
of deliberation, the jury found Steve
guilty on twelve counts of voyeurism. Two

751
00:58:46.719 --> 00:58:51.599
of the counts were thrown out.
He was sentenced to thirty months in prison

752
00:58:51.719 --> 00:58:54.559
and thirty six months of probation,
and would be required to register as a

753
00:58:54.599 --> 00:58:58.320
sex offender for the rest of his
life. What do you think of that

754
00:58:58.400 --> 00:59:02.199
sentence? Seems a little light for
basically who he is, and he was

755
00:59:02.239 --> 00:59:06.920
probably already he had probably already been
in prison for almost that long, right,

756
00:59:07.039 --> 00:59:09.679
yeah, yeah. After the verdict, Alena said, quote, my

757
00:59:09.760 --> 00:59:14.800
family was automatically convicted two and a
half years ago. Since then, I

758
00:59:14.840 --> 00:59:16.880
have lost a sister in law,
a sister, a brother, two darling

759
00:59:16.960 --> 00:59:22.239
nephews, and a great dad to
an immeasurably complicated situation that even I don't

760
00:59:22.239 --> 00:59:28.679
fully understand. End quote. In
March twenty fourteen, after serving his sentence,

761
00:59:28.719 --> 00:59:31.280
Steve Powell, sixty four, was
released from prison. He moved in

762
00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:36.679
with Alena in Tacoma, Washington.
He was closely monitored, required to have

763
00:59:36.800 --> 00:59:40.199
frequent check ins with his correction officer, and had to complete a sex offender

764
00:59:40.239 --> 00:59:45.920
treatment program. The House of Horrors
Alena and Johnny had continued to live in

765
00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:49.519
while he was in prison was sold
to the mother of the two young girls

766
00:59:49.519 --> 00:59:55.440
that Steve had photographed for restitution.
In July twenty eighteen, and age sixty

767
00:59:55.480 --> 01:00:00.000
seven, Steve Powell died from heart
failure in a Tacoma, Washington hustle.

768
01:00:00.880 --> 01:00:05.559
He made no deathbed confession and didn't
leave behind a letter or any clues.

769
01:00:06.239 --> 01:00:08.519
He may have been the last person
alive who knew what happened to Susan.

770
01:00:09.679 --> 01:00:14.920
In February two thousand and three,
Steve wrote, quote, it's very problematic

771
01:00:14.960 --> 01:00:16.719
to be madly in love with your
son's wife. I am so madly in

772
01:00:16.760 --> 01:00:22.800
love with Susan that I would do
something desperate to have her. I included

773
01:00:22.800 --> 01:00:27.159
that quote just because Steve was so
fixated on Susan. It seemed like that

774
01:00:27.320 --> 01:00:30.280
was the only thing he ever thought
of. He had all this pent up

775
01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:37.760
sexual frustration. I'm sick man.
Yeah, but I'm kind of surprised he

776
01:00:37.800 --> 01:00:44.000
never attacked her. Yeah, sexually
assaulted her that we know of. I

777
01:00:44.119 --> 01:00:46.880
probably have too much empathy, but
in this case, I have some empathy

778
01:00:46.920 --> 01:00:52.039
for Alena Powell, the youngest Powell. I think she's a tragic figure in

779
01:00:52.079 --> 01:00:55.880
the story. She never lived anywhere
but in her father's house. She was

780
01:00:55.920 --> 01:01:00.360
relegated to household duties such as cooking
and cleaning, and taking care of Josh's

781
01:01:00.440 --> 01:01:06.920
kids and Terry and Steve's divorced documents. Terry claimed that Josh and Johnny had

782
01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:10.760
inappropriately touched and examined her private parts. As a young child, Alena was

783
01:01:10.840 --> 01:01:15.239
clinging with Terry and didn't want to
be left at Steve's house. Steve made

784
01:01:15.239 --> 01:01:20.320
her sleep and his bad and when
she was a child she began gaining weight.

785
01:01:21.400 --> 01:01:23.960
Terry was given custody of Elena,
but eventually she asked to live at

786
01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:29.760
Steve's house full time, partially because
she wanted to be with her siblings and

787
01:01:29.800 --> 01:01:34.639
Steve was just such a permissive parent. Alena lost almost her whole family,

788
01:01:34.760 --> 01:01:37.000
Steve, Josh, Mike, Charlie
and Braden. They were all gone and

789
01:01:37.639 --> 01:01:45.119
she the only one that she had
left was her mentally ill brother. On

790
01:01:45.159 --> 01:01:47.679
the afternoon of February fifth, the
police showed up at Steve Powell's house,

791
01:01:49.199 --> 01:01:52.719
a house once full of Powell's was
now only home to Elena and Johnny.

792
01:01:52.199 --> 01:01:57.280
The police wanted her cell phone so
they could see the final messages Josh had

793
01:01:57.320 --> 01:02:00.960
sent her. She refused to relink
hislinquishment phone. They returned with the search

794
01:02:01.000 --> 01:02:06.599
warrant. In an interview with ABC
News, she still defended her murderous brother.

795
01:02:07.159 --> 01:02:09.639
She said that he was quote damaged
by the lack of due process and

796
01:02:09.719 --> 01:02:15.199
harassed, abused, and light about. She remained adamant that Josh had nothing

797
01:02:15.199 --> 01:02:20.000
to do with Susan's disappearance. For
that, I have no empathy. In

798
01:02:20.079 --> 01:02:22.239
late two thousand and nine, one
of Steve's sisters had rented a house in

799
01:02:22.280 --> 01:02:27.840
a remote wooded area outside of Salem, Oregon. All of the Powells were

800
01:02:27.920 --> 01:02:31.440
welcome at the property any time.
In May twenty thirteen, the one hundred

801
01:02:31.480 --> 01:02:37.360
and eighty acre property was searched by
law enforcement. The search warrant was only

802
01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:40.280
for the property, not the house. Susan's remains were not found, so

803
01:02:40.320 --> 01:02:44.559
I think they were thinking that maybe
this was one place that she could have

804
01:02:44.639 --> 01:02:49.400
been. Soon after, the West
Valley City Police Department informed the Coxes that

805
01:02:49.440 --> 01:02:53.079
they were closing the active investigation.
The one good thing about this is that

806
01:02:53.360 --> 01:02:57.559
Chuck Cox was given access to all
of the files in the case, and

807
01:02:58.320 --> 01:03:04.119
he continues to investigate on his Over
the years, the Cox family was given

808
01:03:04.199 --> 01:03:09.039
false hope several times that Susan's remains
had been found. Whenever female skeletal remains

809
01:03:09.039 --> 01:03:14.480
were found, police would notify them
to warn them about the impending media frenzy.

810
01:03:15.079 --> 01:03:17.880
In August twenty eleven, law enforcement
received what they thought was the most

811
01:03:17.920 --> 01:03:23.119
credible tip to date about Susan's whereabouts. An abandoned mine in Ely, Nevada,

812
01:03:23.480 --> 01:03:27.639
about two hundred and fifty miles from
Salt Lake City on the border of

813
01:03:27.760 --> 01:03:31.920
Utah and Nevada, was searched.
Josh had googled Eely at five thirty pm

814
01:03:32.199 --> 01:03:37.239
on the afternoon of December sixth,
two thousand and nine, the day Susan

815
01:03:37.280 --> 01:03:42.840
disappeared. The area was desolate and
barren, the mines not active since the

816
01:03:42.880 --> 01:03:47.000
sixties. The West Valley City Police
Department invited the media along to the search.

817
01:03:47.880 --> 01:03:52.119
Over fifty law enforcement agents and search
and rescue teams combed the area,

818
01:03:52.599 --> 01:03:57.880
but again the search came up empty. The search was called a side show.

819
01:03:58.280 --> 01:04:01.280
The entire endeavor was part of opper
Uration Tsunami to make the Powells feel

820
01:04:01.320 --> 01:04:06.039
the pressure of law enforcement closing in
on them. The West Valley City Police

821
01:04:06.079 --> 01:04:12.679
Department hoped the wire tap would capture
some panicked conversations from the Powells. Reporters

822
01:04:12.760 --> 01:04:15.599
were frustrated that they'd made the trek
to the desert for nothing. They had

823
01:04:15.639 --> 01:04:18.880
been promised new information in the case, but they were given nothing new.

824
01:04:20.079 --> 01:04:26.000
A month after the ely search,
another search was conducted after detectives poured over

825
01:04:26.039 --> 01:04:30.719
photos of Susan and Josh they had
found on his computer. The couple had

826
01:04:30.719 --> 01:04:35.639
spent time near Topaz Mountain, a
popular tourist area for rock and crystal enthusiasts

827
01:04:36.079 --> 01:04:41.719
one hundred and thirty five miles from
West Valley City and about thirty miles southwest

828
01:04:42.039 --> 01:04:46.400
of Simpson Springs. Topaz Mountain is
known for its rich deposits of topaz,

829
01:04:46.920 --> 01:04:51.960
a gemstone of various colors including sherry, amber, and pink. In addition

830
01:04:53.000 --> 01:04:57.280
to topaz, the area is also
known for other minerals such as red barrel,

831
01:04:57.639 --> 01:05:01.000
amethyst, garnet, and opal.
It is one of the few places

832
01:05:01.000 --> 01:05:05.719
in the world where topaz crystals occur
naturally exposed on the surface. Okay,

833
01:05:05.760 --> 01:05:12.360
remember when Charlie was interviewed by the
police. Initially he said something about mommy,

834
01:05:12.719 --> 01:05:15.199
is she stayed with the crystals?
Yeah, so that's why this could

835
01:05:15.239 --> 01:05:20.440
have been significant. Search and rescue
teams repelled into old mind shafts wearing lighted

836
01:05:20.480 --> 01:05:25.760
helmets. They dropped cameras into mine
shafts too narrow for a man to pass

837
01:05:25.800 --> 01:05:29.599
through. The only thing of interest
that was found was the remains of a

838
01:05:29.639 --> 01:05:32.760
fire pit with charred wood. Police
could not rule out that it had been

839
01:05:32.880 --> 01:05:36.920
used to burn human remains or clothing. The search lasted about a week,

840
01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:42.360
but nothing of importance was found.
It's so so frustrating. This so frustrating.

841
01:05:42.400 --> 01:05:45.920
I haven't been able to find her. In February twenty twenty two,

842
01:05:45.119 --> 01:05:50.679
Chuck and Judy were optimistic again after
clothing and skeletal remains were found in a

843
01:05:50.719 --> 01:05:56.840
mine in Utah's West Desert in the
Ironside's Mine by the Diesel Brothers, who

844
01:05:56.880 --> 01:06:00.119
had a TV show on the Discovery
Channel. In the search of the mind,

845
01:06:00.239 --> 01:06:04.920
bones and a pair of pants were
found. Unfortunately, lab results revealed

846
01:06:04.920 --> 01:06:09.920
that the bones were not human and
the pants likely belonged to a man.

847
01:06:10.800 --> 01:06:14.360
Chuck Cock's in a statement, said, quote, it is my belief,

848
01:06:14.400 --> 01:06:17.559
based on Josh's murder of his boys, that he would be very capable of

849
01:06:17.599 --> 01:06:25.199
dismembering Susan and dispersing parts in several
locations the search goes on. This effort

850
01:06:25.239 --> 01:06:30.639
also has resulted in numerous agencies now
determined to work together, sharing resources and

851
01:06:30.719 --> 01:06:36.000
information with a renewed goal to find
Susan. Sadly, however, Susan's remains

852
01:06:36.039 --> 01:06:42.039
have never been located. Chuck Cock
still occasionally tags along on mind searches.

853
01:06:43.559 --> 01:06:47.199
In June two thousand seven, Josh
had increased his family's life insurance policies to

854
01:06:47.239 --> 01:06:53.360
two point five million dollars. The
insurer, New York Life, wasn't clear

855
01:06:53.440 --> 01:06:57.280
if it was required to pay out
on the policy because Josh had murdered his

856
01:06:57.360 --> 01:07:00.159
sons and taken his own life.
They went to to settle the matter.

857
01:07:00.840 --> 01:07:05.400
The court ruled that the insurer was
obligated to pay out the policies. In

858
01:07:05.480 --> 01:07:10.800
twenty fourteen, a federal judge decided
that the two point five million dollar payout

859
01:07:10.840 --> 01:07:15.679
from the life insurance policies should be
divided between Josh's beneficiaries and the trust for

860
01:07:15.760 --> 01:07:20.599
Susan, which her parents oversee.
The trust will go to Susan's heirs.

861
01:07:21.320 --> 01:07:27.239
The Coxes argued that the Powell family
should be ineligible from collecting any insurance money,

862
01:07:27.559 --> 01:07:31.440
based on a Washington law that prohibits
criminals from collecting life insurance money.

863
01:07:31.960 --> 01:07:36.920
The judge ruled that would be taking
the law out of context. So the

864
01:07:38.239 --> 01:07:42.159
net of what we just talked through
is that the Powell family did receive some

865
01:07:42.199 --> 01:07:46.559
of that insurance. It was split
in half. Okay, Chuck and Judy

866
01:07:46.599 --> 01:07:50.920
Cox sue the State of Washington on
behalf of Charlie and Braydon for wrongful death.

867
01:07:51.360 --> 01:07:56.599
The lawsuit accused the state of negligence
for not protecting the boys and putting

868
01:07:56.679 --> 01:08:00.639
Josh's parential rights before the children's safety. The Coxes asked the jury to award

869
01:08:00.719 --> 01:08:05.719
five million dollars for every minute of
conscious pain and suffering that Charlie and Braden

870
01:08:06.039 --> 01:08:11.079
endured on February fifth, twenty twelve, from the time they entered their father's

871
01:08:11.079 --> 01:08:15.880
house until they died. From smoke
in elation. Several minutes later, Chuck

872
01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:18.439
argued that the state was the only
entity that could have saved the boys.

873
01:08:18.520 --> 01:08:24.039
He and Judy were considered the boy's
foster parents and were unable to make decisions

874
01:08:24.079 --> 01:08:29.760
on their behalf. Only dshs could. The Coxes had warned authorities that Josh

875
01:08:29.800 --> 01:08:32.640
would do anything to win the custody
war, and he was capable of great

876
01:08:32.680 --> 01:08:38.560
harm. On July twenty ninth,
twenty twenty, a jury awarded ninety eight

877
01:08:38.600 --> 01:08:43.960
point five million dollars in damages to
the Cox family, finding the Washington State

878
01:08:43.960 --> 01:08:48.680
Department of Social and Health Services negligent. The jury believed a systematic failure led

879
01:08:48.720 --> 01:08:54.279
to the boy's death. However,
the judge in the case produced the reward

880
01:08:54.399 --> 01:08:59.600
to thirty two million dollars sixteen million
dollars for each boy. The Coxes appealed

881
01:08:59.600 --> 01:09:03.359
the judge decision and the State of
Washington requested a new trial. In April

882
01:09:03.399 --> 01:09:09.439
twenty twenty three, the Washington State
Court of Appeals reinstated the original ninety eight

883
01:09:09.479 --> 01:09:14.880
point five million dollar judgment awarded to
the Coxes. The state is expected to

884
01:09:14.960 --> 01:09:17.920
appeal this decision to the Washington Supreme
Court. I'm not sure if there's been

885
01:09:17.960 --> 01:09:23.680
any movement on that, but I
couldn't find anything else on that wrapping up.

886
01:09:24.199 --> 01:09:29.000
Elizabeth Griffin Hall was devastated. She
blamed herself. She threw away the

887
01:09:29.000 --> 01:09:31.600
clothes she wore that day. She
never again worked full time, and when

888
01:09:31.600 --> 01:09:36.239
she returned, she took easier cases, although she'd always prided herself and working

889
01:09:36.279 --> 01:09:41.800
on the hard cases that other people
avoided. The explosion was so strong,

890
01:09:41.840 --> 01:09:45.439
in the fire so hot. She
was lucky to have survived, although she

891
01:09:45.560 --> 01:09:49.239
would have traded places with Charlie and
Brayden at a heartbeat. She did everything

892
01:09:49.319 --> 01:09:54.640
she could. David Loverack, the
nine to eleven dispatcher who received the call

893
01:09:54.680 --> 01:09:58.920
on February fifth, was admonished,
but didn't face serious punishment or firing.

894
01:09:59.560 --> 01:10:03.000
A letter of of reprimand from his
supervisor was placed in his personnel file.

895
01:10:03.439 --> 01:10:08.680
It's set in part quote, the
public trust has been shaken. Formal discipline

896
01:10:08.760 --> 01:10:12.960
is necessary inappropriate. Could you have
handled the call better? Yes, and

897
01:10:13.039 --> 01:10:16.720
you have been the first to admit
that you have undergone local and national scrutiny.

898
01:10:16.960 --> 01:10:20.960
You have admitted your errors and have
identified the ways you will correct and

899
01:10:21.000 --> 01:10:26.359
improve your call handling. In the
future. Wow, isn't that shocking?

900
01:10:26.720 --> 01:10:30.640
I mean it is pretty shocking.
Yeah, I mean I have empathy four

901
01:10:30.760 --> 01:10:33.359
nine one one operators because I would
not be able to do that job.

902
01:10:33.399 --> 01:10:36.319
I think it would be really hard. But it just felt like he handled

903
01:10:36.319 --> 01:10:40.479
it so poorly. He didn't It
was a jerk on the call to her,

904
01:10:40.520 --> 01:10:45.039
and she was trying her best,
not defending him. But imagine living

905
01:10:45.119 --> 01:10:47.039
with that for the rest of your
life. You know that guilt. Love

906
01:10:47.079 --> 01:10:53.039
Rec violated four protocols during the call. He deeply regretted his tone on the

907
01:10:53.079 --> 01:10:57.399
call. He said he did not
know who Josh Powell was. Love Rec

908
01:10:57.439 --> 01:11:00.319
sent officers to the scene seven minutes
into the call. He marked the situation

909
01:11:00.399 --> 01:11:05.119
as a priority too, indicating to
the officers that someone at the location was

910
01:11:05.159 --> 01:11:10.640
in imminent danger. He talked to
Dateline and said, quote, especially for

911
01:11:10.720 --> 01:11:14.640
somebody who has done this for as
long as I have to re listen to

912
01:11:14.720 --> 01:11:17.479
the call and hear how clumsy and
faltering I sounded, it was horrible.

913
01:11:17.960 --> 01:11:23.199
This has been a nightmare realizing what
we all now know. I wish I

914
01:11:23.239 --> 01:11:27.640
had recognized the urgency of the situation
end quote. Yeah, I wish she

915
01:11:27.720 --> 01:11:30.439
had to not that, you know, it may not have changed down matter,

916
01:11:30.640 --> 01:11:33.800
probably wouldn't have just given the I
think the explosion was only a couple

917
01:11:33.800 --> 01:11:39.399
minutes after the nine one one call
ended, right So, Around the time

918
01:11:39.399 --> 01:11:43.439
of Steve's trial, a former co
worker contacted Anne Brummer, the attorney for

919
01:11:43.479 --> 01:11:46.199
the Cox family. She had an
interesting story. She said that around the

920
01:11:46.239 --> 01:11:50.039
time of Susan's disappearance, Steve had
told her he was heading to Utah to

921
01:11:50.039 --> 01:11:54.920
go camping with family. She was
surprised he was going camping in the winter.

922
01:11:55.439 --> 01:11:58.479
When he returned, he said that
he'd had a great time singing around

923
01:11:58.479 --> 01:12:01.760
the campfire and making small But if
Steve had been there, wouldn't Braden and

924
01:12:01.880 --> 01:12:04.920
Charlie have remembered him being there?
Yeah, you would think so, because

925
01:12:04.920 --> 01:12:09.760
they did have memories, it seems
like from that night. But could they

926
01:12:09.760 --> 01:12:12.479
have well, remember they made smores
the next morning. They didn't really have

927
01:12:12.520 --> 01:12:15.119
any memories of the night, so
it's possible that maybe they had been drugged

928
01:12:15.119 --> 01:12:17.720
as well. Oh yeah, and
it was one in the morning or whatever

929
01:12:17.760 --> 01:12:23.359
when they left, so they could
have been asleep or drugged. Jennifer and

930
01:12:23.439 --> 01:12:28.079
Kirk Graves had planned on adopting Charlie
and Braden. Chuck and Judy Cox love

931
01:12:28.119 --> 01:12:30.760
the boys, but they knew they
were better off with siblings and younger parents.

932
01:12:31.199 --> 01:12:35.680
They wanted to be grandparents, not
full time parents. Jennifer was She

933
01:12:35.840 --> 01:12:42.600
was devastated when the boys were killed. Dah can imagine. The search for

934
01:12:42.680 --> 01:12:46.920
Susan Cox Powell is the largest missing
person investigation in US history. Deserts,

935
01:12:47.000 --> 01:12:50.640
ponds, rock quarries, swamps,
four hundred mines, and a landfill were

936
01:12:50.680 --> 01:12:56.319
searched, eight hundred tips and eleven
states were investigated, and nine hundred people

937
01:12:56.319 --> 01:13:00.760
were interviewed. On the tenth anniversary
of Susan's to say appearance, the West

938
01:13:00.840 --> 01:13:04.079
Valley City Police Department set in a
statement quote, although all leads in this

939
01:13:04.159 --> 01:13:09.199
case have been exhausted and the case
has gone cold, we stand ready to

940
01:13:09.279 --> 01:13:15.000
act on any new information that might
provide resolution in this challenging case. Over

941
01:13:15.039 --> 01:13:18.079
the years, Jennifer has come to
believe that Michael helped Josh hide Susan's body

942
01:13:18.079 --> 01:13:24.640
after the murder, but Ellis Maxwell
disagrees he thinks Josh acted alone. Speaking

943
01:13:24.680 --> 01:13:29.479
of Detective Maxwell, he retired from
the West Balley City Police Department and went

944
01:13:29.520 --> 01:13:33.039
back to school to study psychology.
We'll rest in peace to Charlie, Braden

945
01:13:33.119 --> 01:13:38.119
and Susan. Charlie was funny and
bright. He liked animals, science,

946
01:13:38.399 --> 01:13:43.000
bugs, books, and superheroes.
Brayden was smart, with a big imagination

947
01:13:43.119 --> 01:13:46.119
and bountless energy. He loved to
do puzzles. Chuck said he was giggly

948
01:13:46.159 --> 01:13:49.960
and mischievous and looked like Susan.
He was a tickle monster and he loved

949
01:13:50.039 --> 01:13:55.319
vehicles. Susan was strong, kind, loyal, and beautiful. She was

950
01:13:55.359 --> 01:13:58.840
an amazing friend. She worked hard
at everything she tried and loved her sons

951
01:13:58.880 --> 01:14:01.520
more than anything. Charlie, Braden
and Susan are loved and missed by all

952
01:14:01.560 --> 01:14:05.760
who knew them. The Mormon faith
believes that you are reunited in heaven with

953
01:14:05.800 --> 01:14:09.880
your family after death, and I
hope they are all together. Hope so

954
01:14:09.960 --> 01:14:15.600
too. So that is the tragic
story of the Powells is a really,

955
01:14:15.640 --> 01:14:18.239
really tragic and sad story. Yeah, it's very sad. Do you think

956
01:14:18.239 --> 01:14:23.119
that Josh acted alone? I don't
know. What's the biggest question for me

957
01:14:23.239 --> 01:14:26.279
is if he had help or not. Yeah. I would not be surprised

958
01:14:26.319 --> 01:14:30.199
if his brother helped him, just
because of the fact that you know,

959
01:14:30.239 --> 01:14:32.920
it's not normal for your phone to
go dark for seven days in a row

960
01:14:32.960 --> 01:14:38.159
and to be like to disappear for
seven days and just coincidentally right at that

961
01:14:38.239 --> 01:14:42.439
time. Well, and the guilt, Yeah, and I'm guessing he took

962
01:14:42.439 --> 01:14:45.000
his life because he felt guilt,
right, Yeah. And the car,

963
01:14:45.319 --> 01:14:48.239
Like, the car is really strange
too, Yeah, I wouldn't to me,

964
01:14:48.399 --> 01:14:51.920
I don't know. It seems less
likely that Steve was directly involved just

965
01:14:51.960 --> 01:14:57.079
because he was so in love with
Susan and so obsessed with her. Or

966
01:14:57.520 --> 01:15:01.279
could he have just been frustrated beyond
belief that she had turned on him he

967
01:15:01.319 --> 01:15:05.359
couldn't have her. Yeah, I
mean it's possible, but it seems less

968
01:15:05.399 --> 01:15:11.359
likely to me. I think it's
really frustrating that the only person in this

969
01:15:11.439 --> 01:15:15.960
whole story that was charged was Steve
and it was a crime that had nothing

970
01:15:16.000 --> 01:15:20.119
to do with Susan, right,
and for the crime that he was convicted

971
01:15:20.159 --> 01:15:24.680
of, he didn't really spend very
much time in prison. In my opinion,

972
01:15:24.760 --> 01:15:26.840
it should have been it should have
been worse. So, yeah,

973
01:15:26.840 --> 01:15:30.720
it's very frustrating that no one there
was no justice in this case. Well,

974
01:15:30.720 --> 01:15:34.720
in the crimes Steve was charged with
voyeurism, but what about the crimes

975
01:15:34.720 --> 01:15:41.520
against Susan and her privacy. Yeah, I mean it seems like that was

976
01:15:41.560 --> 01:15:45.359
talking. Do you think that Josh
there was enough evidence to charge Josh in

977
01:15:45.399 --> 01:15:48.399
this case? It sure seems like
it to me. I mean, it

978
01:15:48.479 --> 01:15:54.399
seems obvious that he was involved.
And I know it's difficult with no body

979
01:15:54.479 --> 01:15:57.720
and you know, no murder weapon
or things like that, but it just

980
01:15:57.760 --> 01:16:02.840
seems so obvious that he he did
something and she was obviously disappeared. So

981
01:16:03.319 --> 01:16:06.680
yeah, I know it's not direct
evidence, but when a woman leaves behind

982
01:16:06.720 --> 01:16:11.800
a note that says if I am
found dead, my husband did something to

983
01:16:11.840 --> 01:16:15.239
me, I think that should be
worth something. Yeah, And there was

984
01:16:15.279 --> 01:16:18.680
nobody else that any evidence pointed to, So yeah, it seems like there

985
01:16:18.680 --> 01:16:24.119
should have been enough evidence to charge
him. Where do you think Susan could

986
01:16:24.159 --> 01:16:26.800
be boy? I mean, I
wish, I wish I knew. You

987
01:16:26.800 --> 01:16:29.439
know, that's one of the most
frustrating things about this case, I think

988
01:16:29.560 --> 01:16:32.760
is that there's no closure, you
know, for the family. Do you

989
01:16:32.880 --> 01:16:36.920
think that she was killed in their
home? I think so, yeah,

990
01:16:36.920 --> 01:16:40.760
because I think there was blood.
There were drops of blood at the door,

991
01:16:40.920 --> 01:16:44.399
right, and the fact you've talked
about it I think in either part

992
01:16:44.399 --> 01:16:47.000
one or part two, the fact
that there was like no DNA or no

993
01:16:47.439 --> 01:16:50.760
evidence in the van, you know, no hairs or anything like that,

994
01:16:50.840 --> 01:16:55.800
to me says that he must have
wrapped her body very very tightly in a

995
01:16:55.880 --> 01:17:00.319
tarp or whatever. So yeah,
I think and the whole thing, the

996
01:17:00.560 --> 01:17:03.239
cleaning, the carpet and the love
seat and the fans in the house,

997
01:17:03.800 --> 01:17:08.560
he was obviously cleaning up something that
he didn't want people to see. Do

998
01:17:08.560 --> 01:17:12.319
you think he could have left her
body in the house and Michael and or

999
01:17:12.399 --> 01:17:15.720
Steve picked her body up and took
her somewhere else when he was out camping

1000
01:17:15.760 --> 01:17:20.600
with the boys. Oh, I
never thought about that, But I don't

1001
01:17:20.640 --> 01:17:24.479
know, because that night it was
snowing, right, so they would have

1002
01:17:24.479 --> 01:17:26.960
had to come in the middle of
the night, and there probably would have

1003
01:17:26.960 --> 01:17:30.359
been tracks left or something in the
driveway, right. Well, I think

1004
01:17:30.359 --> 01:17:33.520
it had snowed well there the morning
after when Debbie called well went to the

1005
01:17:33.520 --> 01:17:39.479
house. There were no tire tracks
in the snow then, So, I

1006
01:17:39.520 --> 01:17:43.159
mean, who knows when the brother
and and er stilla. Yeah, I

1007
01:17:43.199 --> 01:17:45.359
guess. I don't know when it
started snowing or when if they had gotten

1008
01:17:45.399 --> 01:17:48.880
there before, so could have been
covered up. I guess. Yeah,

1009
01:17:48.960 --> 01:17:54.600
here's another weird story. So remember
back in the beginning, like Josh,

1010
01:17:54.720 --> 01:17:58.279
for a short period of time was
a real to her, and I think

1011
01:17:58.359 --> 01:18:01.560
he might have still been dabbling in
that. But could he have dashed Susan's

1012
01:18:01.560 --> 01:18:08.119
body in one of the newly constructed
houses. I mean, I suppose anything

1013
01:18:08.159 --> 01:18:12.680
as possible. Yeah, cadaver dogs
were brought to that area where those new

1014
01:18:12.720 --> 01:18:15.640
houses were. None of them alerted. But someone this was a weird story.

1015
01:18:15.680 --> 01:18:20.800
But someone bought one of the houses
and said that when they toured the

1016
01:18:20.840 --> 01:18:27.399
house that there was a smell of
decay so strong that they had to leave

1017
01:18:27.439 --> 01:18:31.159
the house. Interesting. During the
time of construction, there was a big

1018
01:18:31.239 --> 01:18:35.600
construction dumpster in front of the house
and it was dumped in a landfill.

1019
01:18:35.720 --> 01:18:43.840
The landfill was searched an area of
two football fields long and ten feet deep

1020
01:18:44.359 --> 01:18:47.920
and nothing was found. Okay,
so Josh you said this before, kind

1021
01:18:47.960 --> 01:18:53.119
of a whimp, not very strong, never worked out, and Susan did.

1022
01:18:53.600 --> 01:18:57.079
I think she was pretty strong.
So she must have been drawed because

1023
01:18:57.079 --> 01:18:59.600
I think she would have been able
to fight back otherwise, Yeah, that

1024
01:18:59.600 --> 01:19:04.279
would make sense because it was winter
and it was really cold. Definitely,

1025
01:19:04.319 --> 01:19:08.560
Susan was a grave, was not
Doug, so she must have been dumped

1026
01:19:08.560 --> 01:19:11.680
somewhere else. Yeah, I think
the mind shafts is the most likely thing,

1027
01:19:11.800 --> 01:19:15.119
just the fact that there are so
so many of those and it would

1028
01:19:15.119 --> 01:19:18.319
have that to me, would probably
be the most likely explanation. Do you

1029
01:19:18.359 --> 01:19:24.479
remember that Josh purchased in a subtlen
torch. Could he have dismembered her with

1030
01:19:24.560 --> 01:19:27.680
that? I don't know what you
used that for. I don't think you

1031
01:19:27.720 --> 01:19:30.600
could dismember a body with a torch. I mean you could, no,

1032
01:19:30.880 --> 01:19:34.479
I don't think so. So I
think about the investigators in this case all

1033
01:19:34.479 --> 01:19:39.279
the time, like the people that
had to go through all of the tapes

1034
01:19:39.560 --> 01:19:45.159
and pictures and listen to Steve's horrible
music. I hope those people got help.

1035
01:19:45.319 --> 01:19:48.760
I feel like I need help after
listening to one of Steve's songs.

1036
01:19:48.800 --> 01:19:51.880
But yeah, on a more serious
note, you're right, having to look

1037
01:19:51.920 --> 01:19:58.399
through all that stuff would be traumatizing. I would think, absolutely, Well,

1038
01:19:58.439 --> 01:20:01.239
I think that's all I have,
great job, that's a boy.

1039
01:20:01.239 --> 01:20:05.000
You really went deep on this one, and well, I couldn't have done

1040
01:20:05.039 --> 01:20:09.760
it without the cold podcast. And
I can't say that enough. And the

1041
01:20:09.800 --> 01:20:14.199
book that I read, If I
Can't Have You Susan Powell, Her Mysterious

1042
01:20:14.199 --> 01:20:18.800
Disappearance and the Murder of her Children
by Greg Olsen and Rebecca Morris. And

1043
01:20:18.840 --> 01:20:23.159
thanks to our friend DESI for recommending
this episode and almost killed me, but

1044
01:20:23.680 --> 01:20:27.159
yeah, thanks, it was a
good one. It was. I have

1045
01:20:27.199 --> 01:20:30.600
one more thing to mention about the
case. In February twenty ten, Chuck

1046
01:20:30.640 --> 01:20:36.159
and Judy Cox started the Susan Cox
Powell Foundation, a nonprofit registered in Washington

1047
01:20:36.279 --> 01:20:42.479
State to help families of missing people
and raise awareness of domestic violence. Each

1048
01:20:42.520 --> 01:20:45.199
year, at Susan's vigil, Chuck
meets people who come to pay their respects

1049
01:20:45.199 --> 01:20:49.720
to Susan and thank him for being
an advocate for victims of domestic violence.

1050
01:20:50.119 --> 01:20:55.159
They tell him Susan's story it inspired
them to leave an abusive partner, and

1051
01:20:55.199 --> 01:20:58.880
to Chuck, that makes it all
worth it. Well, as I always

1052
01:20:58.920 --> 01:21:02.119
say, I'm just so impressed by
people who are victims of crime that turn

1053
01:21:02.159 --> 01:21:06.479
it around and do something. These
families are amazing. Yeah, so much

1054
01:21:06.520 --> 01:21:15.399
respect and love for them. Yeah. I hope you guys are all okay

1055
01:21:15.439 --> 01:21:18.600
after listening to that, because that
was a lot of tragedy there. That

1056
01:21:18.720 --> 01:21:24.439
really was so. On our last
episode, which was last week for you

1057
01:21:24.479 --> 01:21:28.119
guys, but yesterday for us,
we got our new peloton and you and

1058
01:21:28.159 --> 01:21:34.319
I both had our first peloton workout. Yes, it was interesting. It

1059
01:21:34.399 --> 01:21:38.239
was interesting. That's the best you
can do. I know, no one

1060
01:21:38.279 --> 01:21:41.840
wants to hear about my crotch,
but my CROs that he hurts. That

1061
01:21:41.920 --> 01:21:44.439
was it was painful, and I
guess you're supposed to adjust to it,

1062
01:21:44.560 --> 01:21:45.520
but I'm like, I don't know
how I'm gonna adjust to that. That

1063
01:21:45.560 --> 01:21:48.800
bike seat was a little a little
hard. Yeah, yeah, but it

1064
01:21:48.880 --> 01:21:50.760
was fun. I mean it was. Yeah, it was a good,

1065
01:21:51.079 --> 01:21:55.199
good experience. Yeah, I liked
it. I think I'll stick with it.

1066
01:21:55.239 --> 01:21:57.600
I'm gonna I promise this is the
last time we're gonna say, oh

1067
01:21:57.600 --> 01:22:00.520
no, we're gonna talk about it
every episode. Who's your favorite instructor so

1068
01:22:00.600 --> 01:22:05.720
far? Gosh, I'm not a
fangirl of really many people other than you,

1069
01:22:06.199 --> 01:22:09.760
I'm your biggest fan. Well,
you never know, as you get

1070
01:22:09.760 --> 01:22:13.479
into more and more workouts and you
see more and more instructors, you might

1071
01:22:13.520 --> 01:22:16.119
be you might be inspired. And
the instructor was good that I mean,

1072
01:22:16.159 --> 01:22:19.800
I just took the like the twenty
minute introductory class, and like fifteen minutes

1073
01:22:19.840 --> 01:22:23.319
in, I was like, I'm
not going to be able to do twenty

1074
01:22:23.319 --> 01:22:26.439
minutes, not because the workout was
hard, just because it's your buttless.

1075
01:22:27.920 --> 01:22:30.800
No, you did order the softer
seat, right, well, I think

1076
01:22:30.840 --> 01:22:33.399
you were upstairs. You were going
to bad. When I was doing the

1077
01:22:33.399 --> 01:22:38.439
workout, I messaged you and said, I'm one hundred percent sure that everyone

1078
01:22:38.520 --> 01:22:41.960
after they get off the bike for
the first time, Google's more comfortable seat.

1079
01:22:42.560 --> 01:22:45.239
It was kind of tough. Yeah, well, happy Independence Day.

1080
01:22:45.319 --> 01:22:48.239
Weak. Oh yeah. This is
going to be airing the week of July

1081
01:22:48.359 --> 01:22:51.800
fourth, holiday week, so you'll
have everyone. I hope has a short

1082
01:22:51.840 --> 01:22:56.199
week. I hope everyone has a
safe holiday. I hope you follow the

1083
01:22:56.279 --> 01:23:00.600
rules and be careful with fireworks.
Carefully fire you to lose any appendagenes,

1084
01:23:00.760 --> 01:23:04.960
guys, or anything like that.
A gentle reminder that if you enjoy our

1085
01:23:05.079 --> 01:23:10.000
podcast, or any podcast for that
matter, the best way to show your

1086
01:23:10.039 --> 01:23:15.079
appreciation and support is to leave us
a five star rating or review. Rich

1087
01:23:15.119 --> 01:23:18.359
and I both and it is just
us work very hard to produce this podcast.

1088
01:23:19.039 --> 01:23:21.520
If you've already left a review,
and I know a lot of you

1089
01:23:21.600 --> 01:23:26.960
have. Thank you. We appreciate
you listening and hanging out with us so

1090
01:23:27.159 --> 01:23:30.560
much. Please rate, review,
follow, and subscribe. Find us on

1091
01:23:30.640 --> 01:23:36.600
Instagram or Facebook, or send us
an email at lovemarykillat gmail dot com and

1092
01:23:36.760 --> 01:23:42.359
consider supporting us on Patreon dot com
slash Lovemrykill. We just have one tier

1093
01:23:42.560 --> 01:23:46.079
five dollars a month and you get
early ad free access and a monthly bonus

1094
01:23:46.119 --> 01:23:49.039
episode. Finally, if you want
to send us a snack, you can

1095
01:23:49.079 --> 01:23:56.119
send it to LMK podcast Pobox one
one one Dexter, Michigan four eight one

1096
01:23:56.239 --> 01:24:00.159
three zero Until next time. Don't
kill your husband and don't kill your wife,

1097
01:24:00.479 --> 01:24:08.239
Steve play us out. I said, I love you? Is that

1098
01:24:08.439 --> 01:24:13.199
a crime? And what if I
said to you one more time? My

1099
01:24:13.640 --> 01:24:21.600
love? So put me in jail? I said, I am. I

1100
01:24:21.680 --> 01:24:27.760
couldn't help it, and you were
mistaken if you thought I self that I

1101
01:24:28.159 --> 01:24:36.439
love you, said cop of my
hey, my ayes, pop out up

1102
01:24:36.479 --> 01:24:44.880
there the sockets. You could empty
all my pockets. This where takes is

1103
01:24:44.960 --> 01:24:53.840
a rough inside of you came along
and really not my son song. Now

1104
01:24:54.000 --> 01:25:00.680
you're all life. They can't talk
so much, told my former shall my

1105
01:25:00.920 --> 01:25:08.520
aunt sair I love. Is that
a crime emported