Suzanne and Barry Morphew

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Hi, I'm Tina, and I'm
Rich. And if there's one thing we've

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learned in over twenty years of marriage, it's that some days you'll feel like

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killing your wife, and some days
you'll feel like killing your husband. Welcome

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to love, Mary kill, Hey
Rich, Hey Tina, how are you.

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I'm doing good. How are you? I'm great? And hello to

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our Hello. I said that very
oddly, as you know, if you've

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listened, I don't speak well coherently
or clearly. Okay, but I was

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going to say, welcome to our
listeners. Hi, listeners, every single

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one of I'm grateful for all of
them. Yeah, happy to have you

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today. I'm looking forward to hearing
about this case. This is the second

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case I've done this week. So
Tina's a little a little tired. Tina

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missus watching Bravo and reading books and
other things. You should take a couple

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of days off after this. We
really we really can I miss when we

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had eight episodes? Yeah, we
don't anymore. So. Yeah, it's

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hot here. It is so hot. It's really hot. It's a weird

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like there's a lot of weird news
going on this week too. We had

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right, I know you've we've moved
on. But yeah, this the submersible

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was big news. But now we've
got this rush of news, which is

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crazy. Yeah, it's pretty nuts. And we just had a we just

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had a fun completely unrelated. We
just had a fun little excursion to the

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gas station. The nice segue,
right, completely recruiting to snacks. Well,

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yeah, we decided to go to
the gas station because they didn't have

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any snacks prepared. Little Snack talked
about this before. But we live out

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in the country and it's fifteen minutes
to the nearest to any store. Really.

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Yeah, I'm not sure why we
live here, but we do.

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But there's a gas station down the
road five minutes and sometimes we go there

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on little gas station dates and get
a nice soda. It's actually a really

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good gas station too. It has
a really good guess, it's a weird

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gas station, but they have a
lot of like weird it's kind of it

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just has a weird vibe to it, but they have a good variety of

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like snacks they do. It's I
think gas station snacks are really the best

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other than homemade snacks. So you
picked out a snack and I picked out

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Yeah, I picked out because I've
had this before. I picked out a

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Michigan stack kind of on purpose because
we like our we like our Michigan snacks.

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But they are potato chips, great
Lipranda's Great Lakes. They're made in

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Traverse City, which is one of
our favorite places place to visit if you

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ever have the chance. We're thinking
about moving there. Not in the next

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year or two, but eventually we
probably think maybe maybe we shouldn't have this

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conversation about long life right now,
or we could listeners way and where should

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we move and when? And when? Oh that's yeah, okay, never

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mind, all right. So these
are kettle cooked potato chips, Michigan cherry

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barbecue potato chips. So Traverse City
is known for cherries, right. I

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was going to talk about that in
an upcoming episode, But yeah, Michigan

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is known for We have a lot
of cherries in Michigan. There's some I

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can't remember the number, but it's
a very high percentage of the world's cherries

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are grown. That's why I was
going to talk about it and later because

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so I could break that down.
But yeah, we all just know we

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have a lot of cherries and they're
great, they're delicious, So we have

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a lot of cherry products. We
have a lot of cherry stores. If

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you're a friend of mine, I've
probably sent you a package from Cherry Republic,

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which is a we should actually do
some snacks from cherry. That's just

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a fun place they have. I
love it so much because it's usually in

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a lot of the cool resort towns
up north. There's actually one here in

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ann Arbor. But they always have
samples of every single thing they sell in

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the store. Yeah, and if
you are hungry, you just stop in.

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And we have done that on occasion
when we've been at a trip.

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But we've also given them lots of
money, so I don't feel too bad

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in them a lot of money.
Yeah, all right, And what did

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you bring? All right? Well, I brought something completely different and unrelated.

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This is actually pretty bizarre and I'm
not sure I'm gonna like it or

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not, but it smells funky.
The brand name is Oinks, which that's

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gonna tell you right there. This
is a little bit different. But it's

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applewood smoked chocolate covered bacon. Yeah, that's it sounds good. But I

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but I opened the package, I
was like, oh, I don't I

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don't know about that. It's like
one piece of bacon in a package with

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chocolate coating. Around ninety calories.
I should mention the chips too, really

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quick. There's a lot of different
varieties. It's not on this bag,

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but you can mail order them.
My favorite I think they only have in

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the fall. They have these purple
chips or purple potatoes. Oh, those

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are my favorite. But cool,
all right, you want to take a

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minute. Let's take a break and
try these lovely snacks. Well would you

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think? I thought the chips were
delicious, were delicious? And the wink

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what are we calling it? The
apple wood smoked chocolate covered bacon. It

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wasn't It wasn't great. I didn't
love it. Yeah, it just has

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the process the taste of process bacon. Yeah, it was kind of ichy.

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I don't think. I don't know. I know people like to put

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bacon in different flavors and things,
but chocolate and bacon, Yeah, it

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just doesn't go together for me.
Well, now you've maybe given me a

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challenge. I bet if I took
like a crisp a piece of crispy bacon

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and dipped it in chocolate, made
version of it, Yeah, I think

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that would be good. Maybe well, I would definitely try it. A

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big fan of cost the Costco thick
cut bacon, but you you're not as

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much you'd rather have prefer or like, yeah, I think that with the

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chocolate though. Okay, never mind, we're talking about too much about snacks.

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But yeah, I definitely recommend the
Great Lakes. Can you read the

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package Michigan cherry potato chips. Yeah, those were good. Yeah, They're

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great, really great, excellent.
Well, I guess we didn't really describe

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the flavor. Well, they're kind
of like barbecue chips, but they're really

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good cherry, a little bit of
a cherry, just a little bit of

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a cherry hint. And the barbecue
sauce is like a sweeter sauce. So

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I think it's a neither of us
have eaten today, so I think we're

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a little hungry, but the chips
are really good. All right, all

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right, we're gonna get onto some
true crimes. Yes, today we're here

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to talk about the case of Susanne
and Barry. More. I you which

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is we're recent? Like how recent? Twenty twenty? Oh? That is

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recent. I feel like I've heard
of this case, but I can't,

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you know, my memory is so
bad, I can't remember it. I

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hadn't really heard of it until I
heard of it. We're gonna start with

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a clip. Oh, Susanne,
if anyone is out there, I can

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hear this that has you. Please, We'll do whatever it is to bring

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you back. We love you,
we miss you. Your girls needs no

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questions asked. However much they want, I will do whatever it takes to

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get. What'd you think of that? Sounds like your classic husband making a

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plea That might be disingenuous, but
I don't know. Well that was Barrymore

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If you husband of Susanne, the
woman who is missing? Okay, all

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right, here we go. Susanne
Moore Afew forty nine disappeared on Mother's Day,

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May tenth, twenty twenty. Her
husband, Barry fifty two, a

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landscaper, left for a remote job
three hours away at five am. The

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More Refuse had been together for thirty
two years, since Suzanne was seventeen.

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Barry didn't want to wake up his
sleeping wife, but he texted her later

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that morning to wish her a happy
Mother's Day. She never responded. Her

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daughter's Mallory twenty and Macy sixteen,
were away on a camping ship in Idaho.

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So Suzanne, who had recently taken
up mountain biking, went for a

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ride, but she never returned home. There hasn't been a single sighting of

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her since May ninth, twenty twenty, and her body has never been recovered.

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She vanished without a trace. Sheriff's
deputies found her blue mountain bike down

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a rocky wooded ravine less than a
mile from her home. They thought the

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scene looked staged. Had she fallen
down the ravine, her bike would have

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suffered more damage or the foliage would
have been trampled. Her helmet was found

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several days later on the side of
a highway, almost as if someone had

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pitched it out of a car window
as they drove by. Suzanne did not

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take her cell phone, sunglasses,
or candleback hydration unit on Mother's Day,

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all of which she typically took along
on a bike ride. And if your

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kids are our way in a camping
trip, you would never leave your phone

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behind. If I go to the
bathroom, I'd take my phone. I

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mean, if our kids are not
you always, if you're a mom,

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you always have your phone on you. Yeah, Suzanne renee Mormon. More,

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if you was born on April thirtieth, nineteen seventy one. She was

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raised in Alexandria in Danna. She
and Barry moorefew met when she was seventeen

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and still in high school. He
was three years older. Suzanne was smart,

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beautiful, and popular. She even
landed a spot on the homecoming court.

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Barry, a star athlete, was
drafted by the Toronto Blue Jays to

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play baseball, but he suffered a
career ending injury early on. They both

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attended Purdue University and West Lafayette,
Indiana. When Suzanne was twenty, she

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was diagnosed with an aggressive form of
non Hodgkin's lymphoma. It was a trying

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time for the young couple, but
with Barry by her side every step of

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the way, Suzanne beat the cancer. She was so weak from the chemotherapy

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at times Barry literally carried her.
They were both very religious and prayed that

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they would still be able to have
the family they both so desperately wanted.

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They were married in nineteen ninety four. Barry began a successful landscaping company BLM

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Landscaping. Suzanne got a job as
a middle school teacher, but soon became

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pregnant. Despite doctors having cautioned her
it would be difficult for her to conceive

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after having gone through such rigorous rounds
of chemotherapy with a cancer in remission.

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Mallory was born in the year two
thousand and Macie came along four years later.

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Completing their family. Suzanne quit her
job and became a stay at home

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mom. They were a beautiful family
with a seemingly perfect life. Whenever you

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say seemingly perfect life, he ever
you know something bad's coming. Suzanne was

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a wonderful mother. Her daughters adored
her and she adored them. Suzanne was

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known to be generous and kind.
In twenty thirteen, she started a non

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profit charity after she received an adheritance
from her mother. She named it the

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Suzanne R. Morphew Hope Foundation.
The foundation's mission statement is quote the Foundation

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was formed to address needs of children
in various global locations by showing the love

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of Jesus Christ intangible ways to address
recognize needs. End quote. I'm not

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sure how active the charity was,
but they did go to an African orphanage

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and plant an orchard, and they
taught them how to take care of the

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trees. They also made building improvements
to the orphanage and to the housing for

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the pastors and Christian workers. When
it was time for Mallory, the eldest

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of the two daughters, to pick
a college, she decided to go west

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and attended Western State Colorado University in
Gunnison, Colorado, located in central Colorado.

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Barry and Suzanne hated the idea of
her being so far away, so

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they decided to pull up their roots
and moved to Colorado too. Oh wow,

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where they were in Indiana at this
point they were still in Indiana.

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Yeah, they'd been in Indiana their
whole lives, and they were, like

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you think she was happy. She
was thrilled to have the support and love

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of her family in the same state. Okay, much like her son is

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so happy when we talk about moving
moving up north where he's going to college.

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Yeah. Yeah, before they're a
big move, Suzanne discovered she had

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relapsed and the cancer returned. She
considered staying in Indiana to get treatment from

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the same team of doctors that had
cured her the first time, but she

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decided the move would be good for
her and Barry. Might seem like a

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crazy decision, but the more if
yous were really active people who love the

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outdoors, and Colorado just seemed like
a great fit for them. It is

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a beautiful place, and I should
take a minute here to tell you like

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these people are. They're beautiful people, and they're just really healthy. And

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you can tell active outdoorsy. Yeah, Suzanne, she liked to be outside.

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They both did. They like to
a landscaper, right, so he'd

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spends a lot of his time outside
exactly. Despite her illness, Susanne seemed

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to be doing well. She tried
not to let the treatments slow her down.

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She was very active, working out
daily and enjoying her new mountain biking

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hobby. Prior to vanishing, Suzanne
began confiding in family and friends that she

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was unhappy in her marriage though,
and she wanted to leave her husband.

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She had over sixty items saved on
her notes app on her phone titled Grievances,

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describing the abuse, both verbal and
physical, she suffered from her husband.

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I don't have a grievances file in
my I'm glad to hear it.

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I could, but I don't.
Yeah, well, we all have our

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grievances. What do you mean,
you know? Among the notes was wedding

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ring Barry had allegedly taken her ring
and had it melted down at some point.

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Oh, Barry was the man of
the house and made all of the

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decisions for the family, especially financial
decisions. Susanne's sister Melinda, described her

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relationship with Barry as codependent. She
relied on him for everything. So not

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to dwell on any point. But
do you have a you have a grievance

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file on your phone. I don't
have a grievance file. You just file

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them in your Everyone has grievances about
their spouses, maybe not quite as serious

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as Susanne and Barry. But oh
well, do you want to do you

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want to go into it? Do
you want a dull deeper into that right

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now? Or you should? We
should do that as a bonus episode the

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air the airing of grievances episode,
it'll be like a sixty eight part series.

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We're gonna have to We're definitely gonna
have to charge people for that one,

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because people. I think we should
pay people to listen to our grievances,

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like maybe a professional. Oh quiet, Everyone loves to hear about other

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other people's grievances. I really don't
have anything. Thanks so much, Thanks

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so much. Four days before her
disappearance, she sent Barry a text that

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said, quote, I'm done,
period. I could care what you've been

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up to for years. Period.
We just need to figure this out civilly

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end quote. Barry responded, quote, I promise you are wrong about all

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the crazy things you think about me, only a fool which stray from an

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angel like you. When I'm dead, which won't be long, you guys

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will be taken care of. End
quote. When did this text exchange happen?

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Not long before her disappearance, Barry
was described as suicidal. He said

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he would soon be seeing his savior. But this was a pattern that Susanne

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and Barry repeated. Anytime she would
voice that she wasn't happy, he'd become

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00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:05.000
depressed, suicidal, and promised to
change. Susanne texted her friend, he

213
00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:07.559
won't speak of divorce. He's begging
for another chance. I'm so torn,

214
00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:13.200
but in my heart I know who
he is. The girls were both aware

215
00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:16.639
of the troubles and their parents' marriage. Mallory usually sided with her father and

216
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Macy with her mother, so Suzanne
and Barry moved to Salida, Colorado in

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April twenty eighteen. They paid nearly
one point six million dollars for a beautiful

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home in the mountains. Barry sold
his landscaping business in Indiana and opened a

219
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new landscaping business in Salida and also
worked as a contractor and volunteer firefighter.

220
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After relocating, things were better between
the more used for a time. They

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both loved the mountains and bountiful fresh
air of Colorado, and Suzanne's sister actually

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00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:52.039
said that she was really happy.
It was hard pulling up the roots and

223
00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:58.240
being away from family, but she
really loved, really loved Colorado and the

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pictures that I've seen of their house
in the area, it's breathtaking. Yeah,

225
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I'm sure if Colorado, Oh you
haven't. Oh yeah, well,

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00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:08.279
my brothers lived in Colorado for a
while and I went out there a couple

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00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:11.799
times. But yeah, it's just
it's beautiful, I know, I said.

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Every time we do a case,
I'm like, oh, maybe we

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00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:18.840
should move to Australia, maybe we
should move to Colorado, but I would

230
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definitely like to visit. Well,
one of my older brothers actually moved there.

231
00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:25.639
He was driving across the country with
his wife at the time and they

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just drove through Colorado and they were
like they fell in love with it,

233
00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:32.080
and they were just like, let's
just live here, and they did.

234
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I could honestly see that happening to
us. Yeah. Salida is Spanish for

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00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:41.399
exit. The Arkansas River exits in
Salida and flows into the Big Horn Sheep

236
00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:45.600
Canyon. It's located in Chaffee County
in central Colorado, in the heart of

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the Rocky Mountains, with an elevation
of about seven thousand feet. It has

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a population of nearly six thousand and
an area of about two point seven seven

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00:16:53.519 --> 00:16:59.440
miles. Salida was once a stagecoach
stop and then a railroad stop. Over

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stage coach stop is hard to say. Can you say it? No?

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00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:08.559
No? Come on, I think
the stage coach stop. I think the

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00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:15.039
bacon like messed up my mouth.
It has the largest historic downtown in Colorado.

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Salida is known for its beautiful Sawatch
Range. That's hard to say Sawatch.

244
00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:23.119
I might have said it wrong.
It's like one of you know how

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the Rocky Mountains are divided into different
ranges. Salida is known for its beautiful

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00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:33.839
Sawatch Range. Outdoor sports such as
hiking, skiing, fishing, rafting,

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and biking are all very popular.
Salida is also known for its one hundred

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and forty degree hot springs that are
said to have healing powers, containing lots

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of minerals such as boron, calcium, carbonate of lime, carmanate of magnesia,

250
00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:52.319
iron, potassium carbonate, chloride of
potash, fluoride, lithium, and

251
00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:59.240
sulfate of sode. I guess I
didn't needs, but it just sounds magical.

252
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Yeah, it does one hundred and
forty degrees. He said, Yeah,

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how hot is our hot tub?
Two? Yeah, that's really hot.

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00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:10.319
Yeah. I can't imagine. Yeah, but people go, hey,

255
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I mean I think it would be
really cool in the wintertime. Yeah.

256
00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:18.799
Despite being in Colorado, Salida has
relatively mild winters. It snows but less

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than other parts of the state,
and the temperatures are generally warmer. If

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you visit Solida, you might want
to take one of the many walking tours,

259
00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:30.119
a ghost tour, a true crime
tour, or a Wild West tour.

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00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:34.400
Salida is home to numerous art galleries. It sounds like a great place

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00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:38.200
to live. Yeah, Solida,
it's very safe and the last violent crime

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00:18:38.519 --> 00:18:41.079
was in nineteen eighty. Oh wait
a minute, how do they have true

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00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:45.240
crime tours if it's very safe?
Well, I think it's like an Old

264
00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:51.119
West type thing. Okay, I'm
sure Billy the Kid or CRUs Sweat,

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00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:55.920
No, which can in the Sunday's
Kid. They've used to live in Solida,

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Okay, I'm sure of it.
Surely. After relocating to Colorado in

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00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:06.079
twenty eighteen, Suzanne reached out to
an old friend from high school, Jeff

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Flibbler. They once had a brief
thing. She secretly messaged him on Facebook

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quote how do you stranger? A
love affair of almost two years ensued.

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They texted and spoke on the phone
daily. Where did he live? Was

271
00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:26.599
he back in Indiana? And hold
on to your pants good? They spoke

272
00:19:26.599 --> 00:19:30.039
on the phone, sometimes for hours. They talked about leaving their spouses,

273
00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:33.240
getting married, and moving to Ecuador. I don't I don't know what the

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draw was to Ecuador. Jeff is
married with six kids and lives in Michigan.

275
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Oh not too far from here?
Really? Yeah? How old Michigan?

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Really? Yeah? How is half
an hour away? Yeah? Yeah,

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that's about the outlet mall is lovely
place. They have a big balloon

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festival every year. That's really it's
this weekend. I know, yeah,

279
00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:00.160
I wanted to go, usually go, but today's super hot, and we

280
00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:06.160
have to record a podcast, and
tomorrow it's supposed to be thunderstormy, and

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yesterday so the balloon l just to
talk about the blue launch for a second.

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Balloon launches like they're Barry weather dependent, and if it's rainy or cloudy

283
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or you know, they don't launch
them. So last night it was rainy,

284
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so they probably didn't launch the probably
not today, they probably will laugh.

285
00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:26.519
About a year into their rekindled friendship, they began sneaking away for getaways

286
00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:32.599
together. They met up six times
between February twenty nineteen and May twenty twenty,

287
00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:36.720
beginning in New Orleans, then Indianapolis, Dallas, Michigan, and Florida.

288
00:20:37.640 --> 00:20:41.359
Barry had suspected Susanne of having an
affair and often checked her phone.

289
00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:45.240
One time, while in Mexico for
vacation, he grabbed her phone while she

290
00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:48.720
was talking to Jeff, but Barry
wasn't able to confirm who it was on

291
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:52.400
the other end of the phone.
Ironically, Suzanne thought Barry was having an

292
00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:59.680
affair. Investigators found deleted from his
phone several visits to the Ashley Madison website.

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00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:03.319
Remember that, I remember that was
a big deal. How do you

294
00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:07.720
remember that it was in the news
a lot. It was like, this

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00:21:07.799 --> 00:21:12.000
is twenty some years ago, and
actually I worked with a guy worked the

296
00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:15.640
guy I worked for, the guy
who would travel and he would be like

297
00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:19.319
he loved that website because he would
just kind it wasn't somebody I was close

298
00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:22.400
to, but he would just brag
about like any city he would travel to,

299
00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:29.200
he'd go on Ashley Madison and find
a find a woman. Oh you

300
00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:32.759
know, and all the women were
married. It was just, oh well.

301
00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:37.640
Ashley Madison is a discreet website where
people go to have extra marital marital

302
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:41.200
affairs. Their motto is literally,
life is short, have an affair,

303
00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:48.079
which I mean today, I think
more people are actually in open relationships,

304
00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:51.759
so yeah, I mean, if
you've got an agreement with your spouse,

305
00:21:51.799 --> 00:21:55.799
then that's all cool. But yeah, I think most people who go on

306
00:21:55.880 --> 00:22:00.599
Ashley Madison are probably doing it in
secret. And yeah, Barry was for

307
00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:03.960
sure. It's not clear if Barry
ever had an affair, but I think

308
00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:08.079
he probably did. Jeff told a
story about how he and Susanne had hooked

309
00:22:08.119 --> 00:22:12.039
up one summer during college when she
and Barry had been dating, and Barry

310
00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:18.160
went after him one time Jeff's daughter
caught him facetiming Susanne and he told her

311
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:22.440
they needed to stop, and he
deleted all social media apps. But Suzanne

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00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:26.680
messaged him around Christmas time through LinkedIn
and they were kindled their relationship. So

313
00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:30.799
they took a brief break, but
then they went right back to it.

314
00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:34.160
Jeffett, I mean six kids,
that's a lot. Yes, that's tough.

315
00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:40.359
That's why I guess I was hesitant
to say his name because whenever there's

316
00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:45.640
children involved badly and he was still
married throughout all this. Yes, I

317
00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:51.160
can't confirm if he is still married, but at the time he was young.

318
00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:55.319
Jeff confirmed that they were in love
and considered each other their soulmate.

319
00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:59.720
He said that Susanne had originally planned
on leaving Barry once Macy had left her

320
00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:03.759
college, but by twenty twenty things
had gotten progressively worse between the couple and

321
00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:08.920
she was finally ready to leave him. Suzanne and Jeff communicated through LinkedIn's messaging

322
00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:12.440
and what's app, so you can
message. I don't have LinkedIn, but

323
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:18.480
you can have conversations. He said
that Suzanne rode her bike almost daily,

324
00:23:18.759 --> 00:23:22.640
but usually not the trails near her
home. She usually threw her bike in

325
00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:26.079
the back of her range Rover and
drove to a trail head. So he

326
00:23:26.119 --> 00:23:30.240
thought it was unusual that her bike
was found so close to her home.

327
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:34.680
Is that making sense to you?
I think so because her bike, well,

328
00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:37.960
I guess I didn't say this yet
her range Rover was still at home

329
00:23:40.119 --> 00:23:42.440
and the bike was less than a
mile from her home, like you know,

330
00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:45.759
kind of tossed off the trail,
gotcha. So it was unusual for

331
00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:48.599
her to be riding on a trail
that close. I think shermally, she

332
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:53.920
would drive somewhere and then go riding
exactly. Jeff did not go to police

333
00:23:53.960 --> 00:23:57.799
after Suzanne went missing. He waited
for them to come to him. He

334
00:23:57.880 --> 00:24:03.000
claimed he didn't come forward because he
didn't want to ruin Suzanne's reputation or tarnish

335
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:07.559
her memory. He was also afraid
of losing his job and family. Of

336
00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:12.640
course, police eventually tracked him down
in November of twenty twenty. They covered

337
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:17.839
their tracks so well that it took
the FBI over six months to find out

338
00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:22.480
about their relationship. That kind of
crazy. That is crazy. After her

339
00:24:22.519 --> 00:24:27.079
disappearance, Jeff deleted all of his
social media accounts. He has never been

340
00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:33.599
seriously considered a suspect. He cooperated
with the investigation, providing his DNA and

341
00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:37.079
gave authorities access to his eye cloud
and passwords to Hollis all his accounts.

342
00:24:38.039 --> 00:24:41.640
He said he's not proud of his
actions, but assumed after Susanne went missing

343
00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:45.160
that she was already dead and there
was nothing he could do about it.

344
00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:49.119
It's kind of horrible, that's why
you would assume that. But yeah,

345
00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:53.400
well, I think he knew that
she was in all right. Now,

346
00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:59.119
we're going to go through a detailed
timeline of the days before her disappearance,

347
00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:03.160
the day her disappearance, and what
happened after. On May six, Suzanne

348
00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:07.880
wrote in her notes app on her
phone that Barry had accused her of having

349
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:11.079
an affair. On May nine,
which is the day she went missing,

350
00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:17.160
Suzanne and Jeff texted fifty nine times, which records show was more than usual.

351
00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:19.519
At two oh three, she sent
a selfie to Jeff and the message

352
00:25:19.960 --> 00:25:23.720
quote, I'm just in love with
you. Watch up to end. Quote

353
00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:30.079
this is the last proof of life
photo we have of Suzanne two nine,

354
00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:33.079
two oh three, two or three. Yeah, So I think at this

355
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:36.200
point maybe she was just like,
you know, because a couple of days

356
00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:38.079
before, she'd sent Barry that text
that said I'm done. So I think

357
00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:45.039
she was done and maybe she was
trying less hard to cover up the affair.

358
00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.200
Yeah. At two h six,
Jeff texts back and says, want

359
00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:52.519
to strip down and get naked?
L ol. Suzanne responds, let me

360
00:25:52.759 --> 00:26:00.319
upload my What's app account. So
I'm assuming maybe she uploaded it like the

361
00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:03.079
the app. That's kind of a
weird way to say it, like she

362
00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:07.359
reinstalled the app or something. Yeah, I'm guessing that maybe she put it

363
00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:11.079
like maybe they text. I don't
know exactly what happened, but I think

364
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:15.799
that they texted through the LinkedIn app
and then they used the What's App for

365
00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:18.319
phase timing. Okay, does that
make sense? It could. Yeah,

366
00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:22.559
I've never used What's App for video
calls, but I just checked and you

367
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:26.839
can indeed do that. Okay.
I don't have What's App, but yeah,

368
00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:30.880
I know a lot of people use
it. At two elevens Susanne responds,

369
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:33.759
Okay, I'm on What's App,
or she says, I'm on WA.

370
00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:37.319
It's unclear what happened then, but
I think Barry may have come home

371
00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:44.079
and found Susanne and Jeff sexting okay. At two twenty six, Barry texts

372
00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:49.480
done headed back. Suzanne didn't respond. Barry texts did you leave? Still

373
00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:53.039
no response. He then gets home
and this is when things start to get

374
00:26:53.079 --> 00:26:59.720
weird. His phone pings all over
the house and yard. Investigators speculate this

375
00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:03.559
is and the couple was having their
last bit and maybe Barry is chasing Susanne

376
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:11.079
around. Barry claimed he was running
around his yard shooting at chipmunks. Okay,

377
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:15.119
I know that's a crazy apparently.
You know, they lived in the

378
00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:18.960
mountains. There's a lot of we
had chipmunks. Remember at the old house,

379
00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:22.599
we had that rock wall, and
chipmunks would kind of like go between

380
00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:26.319
all the little rocks. So I
think the chipmunks at Berry's house were a

381
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:32.400
nuisance and what better way to get
get rid of u chipmunks than getting your

382
00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:37.640
gun out. But there's no evidence
that he was shooting at chipmunks because there

383
00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:41.680
weren't any shells or any holes in
the dirt or And did they live close

384
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:45.440
to other neighbors as well, or
were they kind of out on their own.

385
00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:48.160
I think there was a fair amount
of space they had neighbors, but

386
00:27:48.279 --> 00:27:52.039
you know, I'm not sure how
many, but I'm guessing several acres between

387
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:56.720
the neighbors. But I didn't know
that your phone could ping in your house

388
00:27:56.839 --> 00:28:00.519
like that. I thought it was
just once your home, your home and

389
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:06.039
your phone. I always thought the
location when your phone pings off the tower,

390
00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:08.599
It's like, I thought it was
pretty imprecise, how accurately they could

391
00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:12.279
pinpoint it. So I'm a little
surprised too, unless they had a really

392
00:28:12.279 --> 00:28:15.880
big property and he was, you
know, really all over the place.

393
00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:21.359
Yeah. So at two thirty nine, two forty six, and two forty

394
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:25.480
seven, Jeff messaged Susanne, but
she didn't answer. He also messaged her

395
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:30.480
on May tenth and May eleventh and
got no response. Okay, so between

396
00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:37.200
two forty seven pm and ten seventeen
pm, Barry's phone is an airplane mode.

397
00:28:37.640 --> 00:28:41.880
Did you just save a blooper?
No, I don't believe you.

398
00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:45.200
We need a lie detect her test
in here. Investigators believe this is when

399
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:51.480
Barry had killed Susanne and was disposing
of evidence and Suzanne's dead body. But

400
00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:56.440
Barry claims after he returned home,
he and Susanne had a nice evening together.

401
00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:59.200
He said it was a perfect day, one of the best they'd had

402
00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:02.319
a long time, he said.
They put their phones away for the night,

403
00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:06.880
he grilled stakes, and they made
love before going to bed. However,

404
00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:12.079
investigators we were able to use the
digital vehicle forensics from Barry's forward truck

405
00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:17.759
to determine that his truck was moved
one hundred feet closer to his house around

406
00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:22.240
nine thirty pm. M interesting.
So this case, I mean a lot

407
00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:25.559
of the cases that we've done,
but more recent cases, it's like,

408
00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:29.720
no one, you can't get it. You can't get away with anything.

409
00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:32.640
No. I mean, it's kind
of amazing. Your cars are like have

410
00:29:32.759 --> 00:29:36.599
all this stuff on them. That
car wasn't super new. I think it

411
00:29:36.680 --> 00:29:41.279
might have been even like a twenty
sixteen, but it still had all the

412
00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:45.079
GPS and everything, and they can
go back and find all that. Yeah,

413
00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:51.279
it's crazy. So May tenth,
at four twenty three am was the

414
00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:55.960
last time Suzanne's cell phone pinged and
it pined at their house. Okay,

415
00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:00.519
At five am, Berry claims he
left for a job and room Broomfield,

416
00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:03.359
Colorado, one hundred and fifty miles
and three hours away. I think it's

417
00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:08.759
near Denver. However, his vehicle
shows movement at three thirty am, but

418
00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:15.759
then no movement between three forty nine
am and eight ten am. But he

419
00:30:15.799 --> 00:30:19.319
definitely was on the road after five
am, So I think it's possible that

420
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:25.799
the your truck data is or your
card it's overwritten sometimes, so I think

421
00:30:25.799 --> 00:30:30.799
the data was just overwritten because he
was definitely traveling. Okay, the telemetric

422
00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:34.119
data from his truck shows that he
initially headed west, leaving his home when

423
00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:38.599
he should have headed east to go
to Broomfield. Okay. He claims he

424
00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:44.640
was following a bull elk, but
investigators believe this is when he disposed of

425
00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:48.839
the helmet, which was found about
a mile from his home off the highway

426
00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:53.920
with minor scratches, nothing consistent with
a major crash. Who would follow a

427
00:30:53.960 --> 00:31:00.440
bull elk at five A I don't
even know what he is. He is

428
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:06.160
an avid hunter. At eight ten
am, Barry is now in Broomfield and

429
00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:11.200
throws away something at a bus stop
garbage can How do we know that from

430
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:17.920
a like a video video? Okay, there's so much. There's cameras everywhere.

431
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:22.519
At eight forty six Barry entered a
hotel. He was carrying two white

432
00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:26.440
garbage bags, a backpack and a
pair of boots. He checked into the

433
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:30.759
hotel and went to his room.
At ten h six am, he left

434
00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:33.119
his hotel room carrying the two white
trash bags and a pair of boots.

435
00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:37.480
He places them in two trash bins
at a McDonald's that was near the hotel.

436
00:31:38.839 --> 00:31:42.440
He continues on to a bank and
a men's warehouse store, and then

437
00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:45.920
back to the hotel dumpster, throwing
something into the trash at each of these

438
00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:51.039
locations. Now, had he planned
to stay in a hotel or like,

439
00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:53.079
well, remember he's away at a
job site, right, but it was

440
00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:56.880
away. It was three hours away. Oh, three hours away. Okay,

441
00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.799
I'm sorry. He threw away a
camouflage jack get at one stop.

442
00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:04.599
He told investigators he was just throwing
away junk because he didn't like paying to

443
00:32:04.680 --> 00:32:08.799
dump trash. But he couldn't recall
what he'd thrown away, convenience. Do

444
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:13.119
you know what this made me?
Remember? Oh? Yes I did.

445
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:19.920
I didn't realize that dumpsters hand cameras
on it. Yeah, we didn't throw

446
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:22.119
away a dead body. But the
last time we were moving, and we

447
00:32:22.119 --> 00:32:25.160
shouldn't say this on air, but
threw away a lot of stuff, a

448
00:32:25.160 --> 00:32:31.039
lot of stuff at dumpsters like mattresses
and stuff. Oh, don't tell the

449
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:36.440
people in this bed. Yeah we
didn't. We didn't get caught though.

450
00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:40.759
Well now we are growing to Oh, I can't believe you said that on

451
00:32:40.839 --> 00:32:44.880
air Fugitives. I was like,
oh, we just threw away a couple

452
00:32:44.920 --> 00:32:47.440
of old pots, but no,
you're like, you're going in full with

453
00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:52.079
the mattresses. I think there was
a lot of paint cans too. Yeah,

454
00:32:51.799 --> 00:32:53.319
yeah, oh my god, that
was horrible. Shame on us.

455
00:32:53.319 --> 00:32:58.079
We dried the paint out though,
if that makes any difference. At eleven

456
00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:01.079
thirty six am, Barry returns to
the hotel, changes his shirt and leaves

457
00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:06.519
again. Between eleven fifty seven and
twelve to twenty five, I'm sorry there's

458
00:33:06.519 --> 00:33:08.680
so many different times here. But
between eleven fifty seven and twelve twenty five

459
00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:13.240
he went to check out the work
site in Broomfield where he and his crew

460
00:33:13.240 --> 00:33:16.680
were going to rebuild a retaining wall
that they had built previously. The customer

461
00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:21.839
wasn't satisfied, so it needed to
be redone. He said that cost him

462
00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:25.240
thirty five thousand dollars. He only
worked for about fifteen minutes. And it's

463
00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:32.319
actually a city ordinance that you cannot
work on Sundays in this community. At

464
00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:37.119
twelve thirty eight, Barry returns to
the hotel, throws away several more things,

465
00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:40.920
and then he's in his room from
twelve forty two until six z three.

466
00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:45.319
He must be exhausted because it sounds
like he was up all night or

467
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:50.720
most of the night, like you
disposing of things. At three thirty pm,

468
00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:55.640
he tacks Susanne call me. Mallory
contacted Berry sometime in the afternoon because

469
00:33:55.640 --> 00:34:00.759
she couldn't reach Susanne. Remember its
Mother's Day, Mallory called her neighbor,

470
00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:06.319
Jeannie Ritter, to check on Suzanne
in the late afternoon. Sheenie could find

471
00:34:06.319 --> 00:34:10.639
no sign of Susanne and called Barry
at five fifteen. Barry asked the neighbor

472
00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:14.559
to go back to the house to
see if Suzanne's bike was in the garage,

473
00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:17.639
which I thought was kind of a
strange. At five forty five,

474
00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:22.199
Geenie calls back and confirmed the bike
was not there. Barry tells the neighbor

475
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:29.199
to call nine one one, which
she did around six pm. So Barry

476
00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:32.840
then arranges hotel rooms for his crew
and gives them tools, including two shovels

477
00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:36.960
that had been in his truck,
but he's a landscaper, so it's not

478
00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:38.920
unusual that he has a shovel in
his truck. He gave one of his

479
00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:45.039
workers his own hotel room, and
they later told investigators that the room smelled

480
00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:50.400
heavily of bleach and it was during
COVID like this peak COVID season May of

481
00:34:50.440 --> 00:34:55.159
twenty twenty. The hotel poll was
closed because of COVID protocols. At six

482
00:34:55.199 --> 00:35:00.719
pm, Barry heads home to Seleida
and calls police back, missing two of

483
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:04.960
their calls. They tell him that
Suzanne's bike has been found down a ravine

484
00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:08.599
off a country road. Police noted
that the vegetation in the area was relatively

485
00:35:08.679 --> 00:35:14.199
undisturbed and didn't look like the sight
of a crash or attack, nor was

486
00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:16.480
the bike damaged. It was noted
that the bike looked as if it had

487
00:35:16.519 --> 00:35:21.679
been thrown down the ravine. No
blood or clothing were present at the scene,

488
00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:24.039
making it unlikely that Suzanne had been
attacked by a mountain lion or other

489
00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:28.719
animal. There's a lot of a
lot of wildlife in this area. Sure.

490
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:32.199
At eight forty pm, Barry arrives
at the scene and detective's note he

491
00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:39.800
is very emotional Where's where's it?
Right? It was like this right down

492
00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:57.000
here in this little bank. Here
we go, okay, my daughter,

493
00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:02.800
Yeah you can go. How did
the bike cloked the way it was late?

494
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:06.199
That kind of looked like it,
but there's not really that lest it

495
00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:15.960
shape by shade. I didn't see
anything, though, are not letting us

496
00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:22.519
go to the site because they're getting
I know that wasn't the best clip,

497
00:36:22.599 --> 00:36:24.880
but I just wanted to get the
point, like the emotion in his voice

498
00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:29.800
and the fact that instantly he's like
mountain lion. Who was he talking?

499
00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:32.360
He wasn't talking to the police there, right, It was like other bystanders

500
00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:37.079
or somebody. They were police there
and bystanders. Okay. The girls arrived

501
00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:43.840
soon after. More than seventy Chaffee
County police officers and detectives spent thousands of

502
00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:47.920
hours searching for Suzanne, searching by
drone, aircraft, scuba divers, and

503
00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:53.679
scent dogs. Their searches included a
residential construction site that Barry had worked on.

504
00:36:54.039 --> 00:36:58.920
It was searched by law enforcement for
three days, but nothing was found.

505
00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:04.400
Suzanne's brother also initiated a community wide
search for Susanne. So it's a

506
00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:07.760
really nice community you know, people
have big hearts, and a lot of

507
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:12.920
people were searching for poor Suzanne.
Did they search berry in Susanne's backyard by

508
00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:17.679
chance? I'm sure they did,
but they didn't find anything. The home

509
00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:22.400
was neat and orderly, with no
signs of forced entry or attempt at robbery.

510
00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:29.280
Susanne Oliver, Susanne's best friend,
became alarmed after Susanne hadn't opened her

511
00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:36.079
snapchats. She contacted police and showed
her text to police between herself and Susanne

512
00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:40.239
and so this is her best friend, so she has a Trevor treasure trove

513
00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:46.719
of information. Suzanne told her in
one text that Macy so Malory's the older

514
00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:52.480
daughter, Macy's the younger daughter.
Macy practically begged her to divorce Barry.

515
00:37:52.519 --> 00:37:55.920
She said in another text, quote, I find no peace when he's here.

516
00:37:57.480 --> 00:38:01.719
He won't speak up divorce. I
wouldn't feel safe alone with him quote.

517
00:38:02.360 --> 00:38:07.400
Several friends told police that she was
unhappy in the marriage. When Mallory

518
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:12.239
and Macy were questioned, Macy admitted
that they fought a lot and it would

519
00:38:12.280 --> 00:38:15.400
be better for them to separate,
but Mallory insisted that their marriage was loving.

520
00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:21.880
Investigators found a spy pen when they
searched the more I few home in

521
00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:27.039
a walking closet. A spy pen, you know, very I don't know

522
00:38:27.079 --> 00:38:30.679
what that is. I mean,
it's literally what it sounds like. Suzanne's

523
00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:35.639
best friend had purchased the pen for
her to hopefully capture Barry in an illicit

524
00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:40.519
conversation, who they suspected of having
an affair. The penn's recording capability is

525
00:38:40.599 --> 00:38:46.320
activated once sound is heard. Ironically, the penn captured conversations between Suzanne and

526
00:38:46.360 --> 00:38:52.719
Jeff Libbler. There was also a
phone conversation between Barry and Susanne recorded on

527
00:38:52.760 --> 00:38:57.039
the pen in which they were fighting. Suzanne put the pen in Barry's truck

528
00:38:57.079 --> 00:38:59.800
one day when she knew he had
a long commute to a work site,

529
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:04.159
and the only thing it recorded was
Barry listening to several episodes of Forensic Files.

530
00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:07.320
One episode involved a woman who went
missing on a bike ride. However,

531
00:39:08.599 --> 00:39:12.159
there is no evidence that Barry was
having an affair, but there is

532
00:39:12.199 --> 00:39:16.079
an unfounded rumor that he was involved
with a female landscaper, Morgan Gentile.

533
00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:22.159
He had recently hired her to do
some work at his home. She denied

534
00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:25.320
the affair and told the Daily Mail
that Barry had been acting strangely recently and

535
00:39:25.400 --> 00:39:29.960
told her to go home early on
Saturday, May ninth because he had planned

536
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.960
to do something special with his wife. The next day, Barry asked her

537
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:37.440
to go to Broomfield on the remote
job. She recalled smelling Chlorine's soaked towels

538
00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:42.159
in the hotel room when she and
her co worker entered the room. She

539
00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:45.840
said she is scared of Barry and
never wants to see him again. She

540
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:51.000
cooperated fully with investigators and relinquished her
phone to them, and she said Barry

541
00:39:51.079 --> 00:39:58.119
fired her after learning that she had
cooperated with law enforcement. Several men that

542
00:39:58.280 --> 00:40:01.239
had attended high school with Suzianne were
friended by her and the week leading up

543
00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:07.519
to her disappearance. This was probably
Barry trying to flesh out who she may

544
00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:09.920
have been having an affair with.
He had the passwords to all of her

545
00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:14.960
social media accounts, and there was
an email notification that Susanne had requested a

546
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:20.199
password change recently, So why would
that have been his way of trying to

547
00:40:20.239 --> 00:40:23.719
figure out who she was having an
affair with? Like he's friending people that

548
00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:27.679
she wasn't already friends with. Well, he was probably looking at her Facebook

549
00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:30.960
and trying to like look at the
messages, and most of the guys were

550
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:34.000
like, I was never even really
close friends with her. I don't know

551
00:40:34.039 --> 00:40:37.800
why I got that friend request.
It just seems suspicious. Yeah, Barry

552
00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:43.519
claimed Susanne, who was once again
in remission but taking maintance chemotherapy, was

553
00:40:43.639 --> 00:40:47.280
drinking too much and the drugs made
her crazy. He said she was making

554
00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:53.119
bad decisions. He said that's when
she would start talking about leaving him.

555
00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:58.880
He said she began taking CBD gummies
and was also taking street drugs, and

556
00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:02.960
her dealer might be a suspect.
No one else could corroborate. This isn't

557
00:41:02.960 --> 00:41:07.480
that. Yeah, it sounds like
he's trying to throw suspicion in any way

558
00:41:07.480 --> 00:41:09.599
he can set. You know,
those CBD gummies really make you crazy.

559
00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:16.000
Just and the amount of men who
say their wife is crazy when they're actually

560
00:41:16.039 --> 00:41:22.440
being abuse of bastards is staggering to
me too. Okay, this is a

561
00:41:22.599 --> 00:41:25.800
pretty important piece of evidence that I'm
going to give you here. Investigators found

562
00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:31.000
empty darts, I used needle that
was likely used to fill darts with tranquilizer

563
00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:37.599
and a cap in the family's dryer. From a syringe. A dart gun

564
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:42.039
was also found, although the defense
would later say it was broken. Barry

565
00:41:42.119 --> 00:41:45.480
was an experienced deer hunter, and
he admitted to police that he frequently tranquilized

566
00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:50.559
deer by shooting them with a tranquilizer
dart, and then he would cut off

567
00:41:50.559 --> 00:41:55.079
their antlers and sell them. So
he's a piece of garbage. The syringe

568
00:41:55.159 --> 00:42:00.559
was used to fill the dart with
tranquilizer and the captive the surringe contained Suzanne's

569
00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:07.639
DNA. OH. Investigators think that
he hunted and tranquilized Suzanne. It takes

570
00:42:07.639 --> 00:42:10.880
between four and twenty minutes before a
deer is fully tranquilized, so when Barry

571
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:15.639
was shooting chipmunks, he was probably
chasing Suzanne after he shot her with a

572
00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:20.480
tranquilizer gun and waiting for her to
drop. That's a horrible thing. That

573
00:42:20.519 --> 00:42:23.800
makes sense to you, It does. Yeah, it's horrible though, and

574
00:42:23.840 --> 00:42:28.960
it could have been a lethal dosage. Law enforcement found an empty dart in

575
00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:31.400
the yard and asked Barry White would
be there, and he responded, quote,

576
00:42:31.719 --> 00:42:35.159
the first thing I thought of when
I came here and saw a deer

577
00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:37.400
in my yard with big horns,
I'm like I'm gonna get them horns,

578
00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:42.480
and I'll tell you exactly what I
did. I shoot them they go to

579
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:45.920
sleep, I cut their horns off. It's totally illegal. But you're gonna

580
00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:51.400
find trank darts around my property because
I've done that. End quote. So

581
00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:53.960
Barry, anytime the police had a
piece of evidence, he just hadn't he

582
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:59.440
had a reason for why that would
be there. Yeah, one live twenty

583
00:42:59.440 --> 00:43:04.039
two caliber bullet was found by Susanne's
side of the bed. Missing was Suzanne's

584
00:43:04.119 --> 00:43:08.679
journal and phone. Possible remnants of
Suzanne's journal were found in the fireplace,

585
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:14.039
and there was a crack in the
casing on the door and the primary suite

586
00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:17.760
that Barry couldn't explain how it got
there, but the previous homeowners said it

587
00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:23.079
hadn't been there before they'd moved.
Barry had scratches on his hands and arms.

588
00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:28.280
It was noted that the scratches looked
like they came from fingernails digging into

589
00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:30.800
his flesh. Don't tell me,
let me guess this is from his landscaping

590
00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:36.000
job, was his reason. Actually, I don't. I don't have any

591
00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:39.280
excuse on this one, but I'm
sure he had a way to excuse them

592
00:43:39.280 --> 00:43:45.480
away. Between the contradictory statements,
his truck movements that discarded trash, and

593
00:43:45.559 --> 00:43:51.320
a lot of other reasons, the
investigators started to hone in on Barry.

594
00:43:52.280 --> 00:43:54.519
Barry said he didn't know about the
affair, but he would have agreed to

595
00:43:54.559 --> 00:43:59.559
a divorce if that's what Suzanne wanted. He claimed he would have given her

596
00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:02.280
half of everything. What a guy. And there were rumors that they were

597
00:44:02.320 --> 00:44:07.280
having financial problems. I think Susanne
she must have had a separate account with

598
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:10.920
the money from She had an inheritance
from her mom and one from I think

599
00:44:10.920 --> 00:44:15.920
a grandmother. Totally. I think
it was like almost half a million dollars.

600
00:44:15.559 --> 00:44:21.119
And the conversation that was recorded on
the spy pen, you can hear

601
00:44:21.159 --> 00:44:23.039
them talking about money, and he
was like, I'm going to make a

602
00:44:23.079 --> 00:44:27.199
lot of money this year. Don't
worry about it. I'll pay you back.

603
00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:30.440
So she must have loaned him some
money from either her separate account or

604
00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:37.880
possibly the foundation. According to Southern
Colorado Fox News twenty one, a manager

605
00:44:37.039 --> 00:44:43.679
at a small local market had a
strange encounter with Barried days after Susanne's disappearance.

606
00:44:44.119 --> 00:44:47.639
He handed her a receipt with a
message scrawled on the back it said

607
00:44:49.280 --> 00:44:53.719
baby blue bike helmet, bike clothing
and that's it. He was like,

608
00:44:54.559 --> 00:44:57.920
you know, trying to tell her, hey, if you've seen this woman,

609
00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:00.320
and that's all he wrote. He
didn't write you know her height,

610
00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:04.800
or her weight or anything like or
her color of her hair. Es.

611
00:45:05.920 --> 00:45:08.760
It's very strange. Barry denied there
were any issues in his marriage. He

612
00:45:08.800 --> 00:45:13.880
called it perfect. He offered a
one hundred thousand dollars reward, and a

613
00:45:13.960 --> 00:45:19.320
family friend matched that, so the
reward is two hundred thousand dollars. When

614
00:45:19.400 --> 00:45:23.440
questioned by police, Barry said,
I don't recall ninety five times. Barry

615
00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:30.480
refused a polygraph, but gave thirty
to forty interviews between police, the FBI,

616
00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:36.280
and other law enforcement agencies. Barry
gave the interviews against the advice of

617
00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:39.320
his attorney. Barry is one of
those smooth talking guy or a guy who

618
00:45:39.360 --> 00:45:44.679
thinks he's a smooth talker, thinks
he can charm people, you know the

619
00:45:44.679 --> 00:45:46.239
type I do. I think we've
done a lot of cases on people.

620
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:51.800
The problem with giving so many interviews
is that it's hard to keep track of

621
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:54.519
your story. And that's exactly what
happened to Barry. He told many,

622
00:45:54.599 --> 00:46:00.880
many different variations of what happened on
May ninth and May tenth. He's maintained

623
00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:06.119
his innocence and believes Suzanne was kidnapped
by someone else or taken by a mountain

624
00:46:06.159 --> 00:46:09.480
lion. I also read just last
night that he still thinks she's alive somewhere.

625
00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:15.320
What do you think the motive is, Well, it sounds like he

626
00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:19.840
found out she was having an affair. Maybe, and maybe there was a

627
00:46:19.880 --> 00:46:23.960
fight, killed in a fit of
rage. Maybe not sure. Yeah,

628
00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:29.119
Barry seemed like he was obsessed with
wanting everyone to think that they had a

629
00:46:29.119 --> 00:46:32.719
perfect marriage and a perfect life.
It was almost an obsession for him.

630
00:46:32.840 --> 00:46:37.199
He did not want a divorce,
and he was also the kind of man

631
00:46:37.239 --> 00:46:40.039
who would be infuriated at the thought
of his wife hiding a fair Like you

632
00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:45.559
said, the murder weapon, that's
a tough one. We don't really know.

633
00:46:45.800 --> 00:46:47.360
We don't have a body, right, We don't have a body,

634
00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:52.320
right. Barry had a lot of
guns. He was an avid hunter.

635
00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:57.320
I think the most likely thing is
that he shot her with a tranquilizer dart,

636
00:46:57.440 --> 00:47:01.000
even though it was allegedly broken.
But we don't know when it was

637
00:47:01.039 --> 00:47:07.760
broken, right. According to the
one hundred thirty page indictment Barry willfully misled

638
00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:13.719
authorities by destroying evidence that his marriage
to Suzanne was deteriorating and that he was

639
00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:19.199
involved in her disappearance and homicide.
Barry was arrested on May fifth, twenty

640
00:47:19.239 --> 00:47:22.079
twenty one, at a job site, almost a year after Suzanne's disappearance.

641
00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:30.360
At the time of his arrest,
Chaffee County Sheriff John's Easy said, quote,

642
00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:32.760
our belief is that Susanne is not
alive at this time end quote.

643
00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:38.639
Investigators executed more than one hundred thirty
five search warrants, interviewed more than four

644
00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:43.800
hundred people, and investigated more than
one thousand, four hundred tips about the

645
00:47:43.840 --> 00:47:47.039
case. The police really worked hard
on this case. And to make an

646
00:47:47.079 --> 00:47:52.239
arrest without a body's I know,
that's not common. It's hard to do,

647
00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:54.440
so they must have. It's pretty
confident. Yeah, it's becoming a

648
00:47:54.440 --> 00:48:00.000
little more common. Barry was charged
with first degree murder, tampering with evidence,

649
00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:04.800
tampering with a human body, possession
of a dangerous weapon, and attempting

650
00:48:04.840 --> 00:48:09.599
to influence a public official. He
hired high profile attorneys from Denver, which

651
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:14.599
was a smart move on his part. He pleaded not guilty and waved his

652
00:48:14.679 --> 00:48:19.559
right to a speedy trial. He
was held without bail. A four day

653
00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:23.760
preliminary hearing was held in August of
twenty twenty one. A preliminary trial is

654
00:48:23.960 --> 00:48:28.559
held to determine if there was sufficient
evidence to move forward with a jury trial,

655
00:48:29.239 --> 00:48:32.440
and during this preliminary trial, it
was revealed that Barry once asked Suzanne,

656
00:48:32.599 --> 00:48:37.440
quote, how would you pay for
things like your medical bills for cancer?

657
00:48:37.079 --> 00:48:39.960
Oh, if they got divorced,
how would Yeah? Sounds like she

658
00:48:40.039 --> 00:48:44.559
had some money though she did.
Yeah, she did have her own money.

659
00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:47.559
On another occasion, Barry pushed Suzanne
into a closet and put a gun

660
00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:52.719
to his head and asked her if
that was what she wanted? And how

661
00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:55.920
do we know that her best friend
had? Like she shared that? Okay,

662
00:48:57.039 --> 00:49:00.320
yeah, she shared. I think
she shared everything with her best I

663
00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:02.960
don't know if she knew about the
affair. Though. There was a bombshell

664
00:49:04.000 --> 00:49:08.360
discovery during the hearing that pretty much
destroyed the prosecution's case against Barry. Male

665
00:49:08.440 --> 00:49:15.119
DNA was found inside of Suzanne's range
rover on the glove box. A forensic

666
00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:20.960
scientist called the DNA limited genetic data. It did not match Barry or Jeff

667
00:49:21.039 --> 00:49:24.920
Libbler. The DNA was partially matched
to an unknown male that had been linked

668
00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:30.880
to at least three unsolved sexual assaults
and Tempe, Phoenix, and Chicago.

669
00:49:31.400 --> 00:49:36.400
There is no indication of how it
could have gotten into Suzanne's car. Wow,

670
00:49:36.599 --> 00:49:39.480
that's kind of crazy. It's totally
crazy. I'm hesitant to talk about

671
00:49:39.480 --> 00:49:46.760
the DNA evidence because DNA is confusing, but I heard someone say that like

672
00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:52.519
a partial DNA match, it doesn't
it excludes a lot of people. But

673
00:49:52.599 --> 00:49:54.679
it also it's like they said,
it was like a phone number, like

674
00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:59.000
the prefix of your phone number,
like if it's eight two four, for

675
00:49:59.079 --> 00:50:04.239
example, like anyone else with an
eight two four, right, So it

676
00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:08.119
narrows it down. And they happened
to find that this one person had a

677
00:50:08.199 --> 00:50:10.920
match, but could be a lot
of other people who had a match as

678
00:50:10.920 --> 00:50:17.039
well. I think so it's it's
it's very complicated, but I'm sure it

679
00:50:17.119 --> 00:50:21.760
threw some doubt into the case,
though, I mean plenty of doubt.

680
00:50:21.800 --> 00:50:28.280
Yeah, all that to say that
DNA is still an imprecise science. It's

681
00:50:28.280 --> 00:50:31.880
not imprecise. It's just that,
like the trace, DNA is very complicated.

682
00:50:31.880 --> 00:50:35.480
I think we've talked about this in
other cases, like just because the

683
00:50:35.599 --> 00:50:39.480
DNA is there, sometimes it doesn't
mean that the person was right was committing

684
00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:44.639
a crime. If the DNA isn't
there, it doesn't mean that the person

685
00:50:45.280 --> 00:50:47.440
didn't commit the crime, like in
the Ellen Greenberg case that we just did

686
00:50:47.480 --> 00:50:52.280
earlier this week. Like Sam's DNA
wasn't on the knife, but it doesn't

687
00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:57.599
mean that he didn't touch the knife. Yeah, and it's also gotten DNA

688
00:50:57.679 --> 00:51:01.599
testing has gotten so good too that
like you could touch something and then shake

689
00:51:01.639 --> 00:51:05.760
hands with somebody else, and then
they could touch something else and your DNA

690
00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:08.280
could end up on that other thing
even though you weren't anywhere near it.

691
00:51:08.360 --> 00:51:10.320
Yeah, I think I'm going to
say this in a few minutes. But

692
00:51:10.400 --> 00:51:15.199
there was also DNA found on the
bike and the helmet too, But I

693
00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:22.880
think that the police officers that handled
those things couldn't be excluded. So this

694
00:51:22.960 --> 00:51:25.400
is all to say that I think
in this case that DNA is a red

695
00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:30.199
herring, but it definitely gives questionable
doubts. Sure. The judge in the

696
00:51:30.239 --> 00:51:36.079
case said that there are three scenarios
that could have happened to Suzanne. One

697
00:51:36.199 --> 00:51:40.239
she left willingly to marry killed her
and disposed of her body. And three

698
00:51:40.480 --> 00:51:45.800
someone else killed her and disposed of
her body. He said, quote,

699
00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:49.760
I find that the proof is not
evident, nor is the presumption that mister

700
00:51:49.840 --> 00:51:54.360
mooreph you committed the first degree murder. I'm finding probable cause here, but

701
00:51:54.440 --> 00:51:59.239
it's only because I'm looking at all
of the evidence and the light most favorable

702
00:51:59.320 --> 00:52:04.840
to the prosecute fusion end quote.
Does that make sense? I think so.

703
00:52:05.920 --> 00:52:08.000
It's just a lot of a lot
of words. I think he's saying

704
00:52:08.119 --> 00:52:15.239
that there's there's doubt, but there's
enough evidence to move forward. He ruled

705
00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:20.679
that there was probable cause to go
to trial, but released Barry on a

706
00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:25.000
five hundred thousand dollars cash bond because
he said there wasn't enough evidence to keep

707
00:52:25.039 --> 00:52:30.320
him in jail. He required Barry
to wear an ankle monitor and he could

708
00:52:30.360 --> 00:52:34.559
not leave the county. But I
think that was later changed and they let

709
00:52:34.639 --> 00:52:38.880
him, like go see his daughter
in college, Okay. On September twentieth,

710
00:52:38.960 --> 00:52:43.760
twenty twenty one, when Barry was
released from jail, Mallory and Macy

711
00:52:43.880 --> 00:52:47.239
were steadfastly by his side. They
have said publicly that they don't believe he

712
00:52:47.280 --> 00:52:52.760
had anything to do with Suzanne's disappearance. They have been unwavering in their support

713
00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:55.719
of him, but the same can't
be said for Suzanne's family, who were

714
00:52:55.760 --> 00:53:00.840
immediately suspicious of Barry. The trial
was slated to begin in April twenty eight,

715
00:53:01.039 --> 00:53:07.639
twenty twenty two. A new judge
was appointed after Judge Patrick Murphy recused

716
00:53:07.679 --> 00:53:13.280
himself due to a conflict of interest
in another case. The defense filed emotion

717
00:53:13.559 --> 00:53:20.000
that the prosecution did not produce evidence
in a timely matter, including exculpatory evidence,

718
00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:25.480
mainly the DNA evidence found on Suzanne's
range rover, but there was also

719
00:53:25.559 --> 00:53:30.760
on DA unknown DNA found on her
bike, helmet and in the house linked

720
00:53:30.760 --> 00:53:36.880
to unknown males. The judge rolled
in the defense's favor. The penalty to

721
00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:43.800
the prosecution was severe. Fourteen witnesses, including eleven expert witnesses in DNA,

722
00:53:44.199 --> 00:53:49.039
vehicle forensics, and cell phones,
were expelled from testifying in the trial,

723
00:53:49.360 --> 00:53:54.519
which made the case impossible for the
prosecution to move forward, especially because Suzanne's

724
00:53:54.519 --> 00:54:00.039
body had never been found. Even
before the expert witnesses were struck from testifying,

725
00:54:00.159 --> 00:54:05.039
it would have been an uphill battle
for the state without a body obvious

726
00:54:05.119 --> 00:54:10.239
murder weapon, DNA, blood evidence, or eyewitnesses tying Barry to the crime.

727
00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:14.800
The judge said, quote, it
is clear to this court there is

728
00:54:14.840 --> 00:54:19.920
a pattern of discovery of violations in
this case attributable to the people. Their

729
00:54:19.960 --> 00:54:25.840
actions amount to negligent and arguably reckless
disregard end quote. In April nineteen,

730
00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:31.280
twenty twenty two, the DA made
emotion to dismiss the charges against Barry mooreph

731
00:54:31.320 --> 00:54:36.800
you without prejudice, meaning he could
be tried again if Suzanne's body is found

732
00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:42.039
or new information or evidence come to
light. Probably smart because they were gonna

733
00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:45.159
they weren't going to win the case. It sounds like, isn't that crazy?

734
00:54:45.199 --> 00:54:50.320
Though? I have never heard of
witnesses being expelled before. Yeah,

735
00:54:50.360 --> 00:54:53.039
And I talked out, reached out
to our legal egal friend, Kelly,

736
00:54:53.480 --> 00:54:57.519
and she said she had never heard
of that either. Interesting. Well,

737
00:54:57.599 --> 00:55:00.440
essentially they eliminated all the expert witnesses
and that's really all that they had,

738
00:55:00.639 --> 00:55:05.559
right, There's there's still some evidence, but yeah, not much of a

739
00:55:05.639 --> 00:55:08.880
case without all of them. Barry
and his attorneys hadn't been notified of the

740
00:55:08.880 --> 00:55:14.719
dismissal in advance and were overjoyed by
this news. Prosecutors believed at the time

741
00:55:15.760 --> 00:55:20.679
that they were close to finding Suzanne's
body. Court documents described the location as

742
00:55:21.159 --> 00:55:25.159
quote a remote and mountainous region near
the more a few residents unquote. Their

743
00:55:25.199 --> 00:55:30.840
intent was to excavate the location after
the snow melted, but unfortunately her body

744
00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:37.280
still has not been located. It's
devastating, isn't it. As if Barry

745
00:55:37.280 --> 00:55:40.880
didn't have enough legal troubles, he
was accused of forging Suzanne's ballot in the

746
00:55:40.920 --> 00:55:47.199
November twenty twenty presidential election. In
July twenty twenty two, Barry pleaded guilty

747
00:55:47.239 --> 00:55:52.559
to the charge of casting a fraudulent
fraudulent balot in order to receive a plea

748
00:55:52.599 --> 00:55:55.760
deal. He voted for Donald Trump
and said he knew that's who Suzanne would

749
00:55:55.760 --> 00:56:00.679
have voted for. Quote just because
I wanted Trump to win, I thought,

750
00:56:00.679 --> 00:56:04.639
why not give him another vote.
I know she was going to vote

751
00:56:04.679 --> 00:56:08.079
for Trump anyways. End quote.
When asked why he cast Susanne's ballot,

752
00:56:08.119 --> 00:56:14.079
he said he thought the other guys
were cheating and he didn't know you couldn't

753
00:56:14.079 --> 00:56:19.079
do that for your spouse. According
to KKTV eleven, Barry was sentenced to

754
00:56:19.119 --> 00:56:24.400
a year of supervised probation and thirty
two hours of community service. Suzanne's sister,

755
00:56:24.400 --> 00:56:29.599
Melinda Moriman said, I want the
world to know that my sister was

756
00:56:29.639 --> 00:56:32.800
the darling of our family. She
was the rose among thorns. That's what

757
00:56:32.840 --> 00:56:37.679
I used to call her. At
a memorial event helped for Suzanne this Mother's

758
00:56:37.760 --> 00:56:43.800
Day, her nephew Chris Morman said, quote, She's the warmest person God

759
00:56:43.840 --> 00:56:49.679
ever breathed life into. I can't
hear the John Prine song Summer's End without

760
00:56:49.719 --> 00:56:52.679
tearing up. I just want closure
for my family and for her daughters.

761
00:56:52.960 --> 00:56:59.000
End quote. He said she gave
the best hugs. Chris Mormon called in

762
00:56:59.079 --> 00:57:02.280
the public to ask wner Jared Polis
to appoint a special prosecutor to take over

763
00:57:02.320 --> 00:57:08.559
Suzanne's case. Barry, Mallory and
Macy released the following statement this Mother's Day.

764
00:57:08.760 --> 00:57:13.400
Quote, we have heavy hearts today. We have missed our mom and

765
00:57:13.440 --> 00:57:15.719
wife, Susanne Moore. If you
every single day for the last three years.

766
00:57:16.360 --> 00:57:22.679
We keep hoping that DA Stanley and
law enforcement will use every resource to

767
00:57:22.800 --> 00:57:25.719
find her. End quote. And
like I said earlier, they still believe

768
00:57:25.760 --> 00:57:31.039
she's alive somewhere. Here's a clip
of Barry, Macy and Mallory talking about

769
00:57:31.079 --> 00:57:36.039
the past, how the past three
years have affected them. What have these

770
00:57:36.159 --> 00:57:45.760
last three years been like for you? Very very sad, very confusing,

771
00:57:45.519 --> 00:57:54.400
just so dramatic, like literally our
worst nightmare. Did you have anything to

772
00:57:54.480 --> 00:57:59.800
do with the disappearance of your wife? Absolutely not. It's very hurtful to

773
00:58:00.119 --> 00:58:06.039
lose your reputation and your integrity.
That's heartbreaking to hear these girls. I'll

774
00:58:06.079 --> 00:58:09.599
post a picture. There's just they
seem like the just beautiful, sweet girls.

775
00:58:09.639 --> 00:58:15.119
They look a lot like their mom, and it's it's just heartbreaking.

776
00:58:15.159 --> 00:58:17.599
It really bothers me. Yeah,
I just hate when kids are put in

777
00:58:17.639 --> 00:58:22.519
that position, when you know they
lost one parent, and so they're putting

778
00:58:22.519 --> 00:58:25.920
a position where they either need to
turn against their other parent or support him

779
00:58:25.960 --> 00:58:30.280
even you know, if he was
guilty. And it's just it's hard.

780
00:58:31.000 --> 00:58:35.480
It's a classic case of familial and
meshment. I'm going to give you a

781
00:58:35.480 --> 00:58:40.320
few characteristics of that. In en
meshment, families lack boundaries, Children are

782
00:58:40.360 --> 00:58:47.800
not encouraged to individuate and become emotionally
independent, intrusive or need equality to relationships,

783
00:58:49.039 --> 00:58:52.920
oversharing, or demands to know everything
about your life. You're expected to

784
00:58:52.960 --> 00:58:59.840
conform to family norms and traditions.
Self expression is stifled. Parents may treat

785
00:59:00.039 --> 00:59:04.840
children as friends or confidence. It's
not acceptable to have opinions, beliefs,

786
00:59:04.920 --> 00:59:09.199
or ideas that differ from your families. Fierce loyalty is expected. Guilt and

787
00:59:09.239 --> 00:59:14.480
shame are used to maintain the status
quo. So those are all really toxic

788
00:59:14.559 --> 00:59:16.719
traits. Yeah, and I wanted
to give a shout out to our friends

789
00:59:16.760 --> 00:59:22.800
really quick. The Enmeshed podcast E
N M E S H E. D

790
00:59:22.159 --> 00:59:28.480
Amanda and Pam are an adorable mom
and daughter and they have a podcast all

791
00:59:28.519 --> 00:59:35.599
about unhealthy family relationships and a couple
relationships. They cover the dark side of

792
00:59:35.840 --> 00:59:39.000
family dynamics. Sounds interesting. I
don't know if I had ever heard the

793
00:59:39.079 --> 00:59:42.559
term in meshment before, or if
I had, I didn't know what it

794
00:59:42.599 --> 00:59:46.960
meant. So it's kind of new
to me too. And I mean it's

795
00:59:47.000 --> 00:59:51.199
it's interesting stuff and I can relate
to some of it, I'm sure.

796
00:59:52.119 --> 00:59:54.159
I mean most people can. Yeah, a lot of people can. So.

797
00:59:54.280 --> 00:59:58.760
Barry is now assuming the State of
Colorado for fifteen million dollars. His

798
00:59:58.920 --> 01:00:04.199
legal team says the the state sat
on exculpatory evidence during the preliminary trial that

799
01:00:04.239 --> 01:00:08.519
would have prevented the case from moving
forward, specifically the DNA. According to

800
01:00:08.519 --> 01:00:13.159
the Denver Post, Barry's attorney,
Iris Eaton, called for the state authorities

801
01:00:13.199 --> 01:00:20.480
to discipline or dis bar eleventh Judicial
District Attorney Linda Stanley and six other prosecutors

802
01:00:20.480 --> 01:00:25.800
involved in the case in an eighty
six page request for investigation. Her complaint

803
01:00:25.840 --> 01:00:30.159
is one of several pending against the
office of Attorney General Linda Stanley. The

804
01:00:30.239 --> 01:00:36.280
complaint alleges that the prosecutors knew about
the DNA from the unknown male sex offender

805
01:00:36.360 --> 01:00:40.119
since October of twenty twenty and didn't
share the information with the judge, the

806
01:00:40.239 --> 01:00:46.480
defense or included in the rest affidavit, and you know that discovery laws are

807
01:00:47.159 --> 01:00:53.280
their crucial. In April, at
judge throughout a first degree murder charge in

808
01:00:53.320 --> 01:00:58.840
another case, reducing the charge to
second degree murder because of the violations against

809
01:00:58.840 --> 01:01:02.119
a prosecutor who was once again who
once again failed to deliver discovery documents in

810
01:01:02.159 --> 01:01:07.119
a timely manner. The judge issued
a twenty one page order, including twenty

811
01:01:07.159 --> 01:01:13.679
cases that Attorney General Stanley's office had
been negligent in delivering information in a timely

812
01:01:13.679 --> 01:01:17.840
manner. The office remains under investigation. Wow, it's unclear how this could

813
01:01:17.840 --> 01:01:23.000
affect Barry in the future. It's
interesting. It's so important that those things

814
01:01:23.000 --> 01:01:27.760
are handled correctly, and to all
your eyes and cross all your teas,

815
01:01:27.840 --> 01:01:32.920
you know, to let criminals go
free is just a Barry has left the

816
01:01:32.920 --> 01:01:38.280
state of Colorado too to stress and
privacy concerns, and at the last the

817
01:01:38.360 --> 01:01:44.239
last information I could find, he
lives with a girlfriend in Colorado. If

818
01:01:44.239 --> 01:01:46.719
a case remains unsolved for three years, it is considered a cold case.

819
01:01:46.880 --> 01:01:52.599
And Suzanne's case just passed the three
year mark. So that is the story

820
01:01:52.800 --> 01:01:58.039
of Suzanne. More. If you
do you know what where Mallory and Macy

821
01:01:58.280 --> 01:02:00.360
are these days. I think they're
still in Colorado. I think they're both

822
01:02:00.400 --> 01:02:05.280
in school in Colorado. So do
you think Suzanne could have been attacked by

823
01:02:05.280 --> 01:02:08.280
a mountain lion or other animal?
No. I think they would have found

824
01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:13.199
her remains. They would have found
something. It would have found a scrap

825
01:02:13.239 --> 01:02:16.360
of clothing or blood on the rocks
or something like that. I hate to

826
01:02:16.360 --> 01:02:21.760
say this, but a landscaper would
definitely know how to get rid of a

827
01:02:21.800 --> 01:02:23.840
body. Yeah, for sure,
it's really good at digging holes. He

828
01:02:23.960 --> 01:02:30.559
had some machinery. Yeah, Yeah, that's too bad. I think my

829
01:02:30.639 --> 01:02:35.920
opinion is that it sounds like he
did it, but it doesn't seem like

830
01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:38.239
there's enough evidence to bring it to
trial, especially with all that stuff that

831
01:02:38.280 --> 01:02:44.599
happens. So it's really sad that
she may not get justice. It's so

832
01:02:44.639 --> 01:02:46.800
sad, and it's so sad that
these beautiful young girls are sticking by their

833
01:02:46.880 --> 01:02:51.800
dad's side. In any picture I've
seen of them, they look just emotionally

834
01:02:51.880 --> 01:02:54.440
drained. I'm sure they are.
Yeah. One thing that sticks out to

835
01:02:54.480 --> 01:02:59.199
me is it's Mother's Day and Barry
left at five am. He had no

836
01:02:59.280 --> 01:03:00.760
reason. He had no reason to
leave that Earlier he said, you couldn't

837
01:03:00.800 --> 01:03:05.000
work on Sunday anyway, it can't
work on Sunday, and maybe leave,

838
01:03:05.159 --> 01:03:08.119
you know, in the at late
afternoon or early evening because it's not that

839
01:03:08.239 --> 01:03:12.559
long of a drive. But he
left at five am. And like we

840
01:03:12.599 --> 01:03:16.079
talked about earlier, the partial DNA
match is crazy, but Barry did have

841
01:03:16.159 --> 01:03:22.119
some friends that were in the police
department. M it's just so frustrating in

842
01:03:22.159 --> 01:03:25.480
this case that there's so little forensic
evidence. Yeah, and not finding a

843
01:03:25.519 --> 01:03:30.039
body that's so frustrating to It just
makes it so hard to get a conviction.

844
01:03:30.079 --> 01:03:32.719
I think there's I think about this
all the time, but there's so

845
01:03:32.760 --> 01:03:38.159
many bodies that are hidden and buried
that we might never find. Yeah,

846
01:03:38.719 --> 01:03:43.280
it's horrible. Well, especially out
west too. So the next case that

847
01:03:43.320 --> 01:03:46.039
I'm working on also takes place out
west, and there's just so much space.

848
01:03:46.079 --> 01:03:51.320
I mean, there's so much open
space and desert. And I saw

849
01:03:51.360 --> 01:03:53.559
a video of I think it was
a police officer like pointing to the mountains

850
01:03:53.679 --> 01:03:57.960
in this case and saying, I
mean it could be anyway. Yeah,

851
01:03:59.280 --> 01:04:03.159
Oh, it's horrible. There were
cameras all over the exterior of the Morphew

852
01:04:03.239 --> 01:04:06.119
house, but I don't think they
captured anything. I don't know if they

853
01:04:06.119 --> 01:04:11.079
were turned off. I couldn't find
any information on that. The town of

854
01:04:11.119 --> 01:04:14.719
Salidah, which seems like, again, just a really nice community. They

855
01:04:15.119 --> 01:04:18.559
the past several Christmases have put up
a Christmas tree in Suzanne's honor and it's

856
01:04:18.599 --> 01:04:21.599
decorated with over two hundred ornaments.
It's kind of like they do in our

857
01:04:21.639 --> 01:04:27.239
town. How they have like like
the sponsored Christmas trees. So there's a

858
01:04:27.280 --> 01:04:30.800
couple of things that I read on
Reddit that I always want to give a

859
01:04:30.840 --> 01:04:34.320
disclaimer when I get something from Reddit, because I'm not sure how reliable the

860
01:04:34.400 --> 01:04:41.880
sources. But so when susan Anne, when when Macie and Mallory couldn't reach

861
01:04:41.880 --> 01:04:44.719
her on Mother's Day and they had
planned like people might say, why did

862
01:04:44.719 --> 01:04:48.079
her daughters leave on Mother's Day?
They were had planned on returning later on

863
01:04:48.199 --> 01:04:51.079
during that, you know, and
having dinner with her or something. But

864
01:04:51.119 --> 01:04:55.639
Mazie had a boyfriend and I think
she was like, hey, can you

865
01:04:55.679 --> 01:04:58.480
go check on my mom? You
know, and he was there when the

866
01:04:58.519 --> 01:05:03.119
police got there, and he noticed
Suzanne's helmet in the garage at that time.

867
01:05:03.360 --> 01:05:06.239
Oh interesting. I don't know if
he didn't tell investigators or maybe he

868
01:05:06.280 --> 01:05:11.400
didn't think it was important. And
also a woman said she saw Susanne at

869
01:05:11.440 --> 01:05:16.559
a domestic abuse support group. So
there is a two hundred thousand dollar reward

870
01:05:16.639 --> 01:05:20.920
for any information, and I don't
want any of our listeners to think that

871
01:05:20.960 --> 01:05:24.280
they were going to get that money, because I'm going to call that hotline

872
01:05:24.280 --> 01:05:26.079
and I'm going to get the money
and say, hey, Barry, did

873
01:05:26.079 --> 01:05:31.239
it Okay? All right? So
that's all I have. Well well done,

874
01:05:31.280 --> 01:05:34.639
I'm really bummed out that there's no
justice in this case, at least

875
01:05:34.679 --> 01:05:38.800
not yet. I did want to
mention I want to mention this at the

876
01:05:38.840 --> 01:05:43.039
top of the episode, but I
didn't. I made a couple of errors

877
01:05:43.079 --> 01:05:47.400
in the last in the Ellen Greenberg
episode, and I'm devastated that whenever we

878
01:05:47.480 --> 01:05:51.199
make a mistake, we try so
hard. But I'm devastated that I said

879
01:05:51.239 --> 01:05:55.480
her age wrong. At the very
top of the episode, I said Ellen

880
01:05:55.519 --> 01:05:59.280
Greenberg twenty eight. Ellen Greenberg was
twenty seven when she passed away, and

881
01:05:59.320 --> 01:06:01.400
I just feel horrible about that.
And I think you caught it in editing

882
01:06:02.199 --> 01:06:05.159
and I had just kind of rushed
through that script and I didn't go through

883
01:06:05.199 --> 01:06:09.400
it as you know. Yeah,
so that made me feel bad. And

884
01:06:09.400 --> 01:06:14.280
then that episode, I also said
that there was a great forty eight Hours

885
01:06:14.280 --> 01:06:17.000
episode on that case. No,
there wasn't. It was this case.

886
01:06:18.159 --> 01:06:21.519
Forty eight Hours did a really good
job on this case. So I we

887
01:06:21.800 --> 01:06:27.039
watched so many things we read.
It's easy to get them when you're working

888
01:06:27.079 --> 01:06:29.679
on two cases at a time.
So I apologize for that. I feel

889
01:06:29.719 --> 01:06:32.840
horrible, But yeah, that's why
I never worked on two cases at a

890
01:06:32.840 --> 01:06:35.519
time, because I would not be
able to I would not be able to

891
01:06:35.599 --> 01:06:42.079
juggle that without getting I was planning
on like doing the Ellen Greenberg as a

892
01:06:42.119 --> 01:06:45.480
mini episode. I don't know,
because it's it's it's hard. And I

893
01:06:45.480 --> 01:06:49.360
did want to mention to listeners too
that we had decided to start putting our

894
01:06:49.440 --> 01:06:55.280
sources in our show notes. So
if you want to go research this case

895
01:06:55.280 --> 01:06:59.760
more, there's I have twenty one
sources for this case. And that's something

896
01:06:59.800 --> 01:07:02.320
I've I'm working and like, I
just have way too many sources. I

897
01:07:02.360 --> 01:07:06.880
just can't stop investigating. And it's
kind of a problem because I won't even

898
01:07:08.239 --> 01:07:13.760
clean like one small fact like from
from another article, like Susian's helmet was

899
01:07:13.800 --> 01:07:15.719
blue, and I'm like, all
right, that's important. It's hard to

900
01:07:15.719 --> 01:07:19.119
know when when to stop. It
is, and I really, I mean,

901
01:07:19.159 --> 01:07:23.119
we both try so hard to get
the story right. I think you

902
01:07:23.159 --> 01:07:25.639
try a little harder than I do. I mean, you do a few

903
01:07:25.880 --> 01:07:29.159
fabulous job. I think we both
are. We care about the families and

904
01:07:29.199 --> 01:07:32.119
the pictures, and yeah, it's
it's tough. And if there's any previous

905
01:07:32.159 --> 01:07:35.199
cases, if you want to,
if you're curious about our source materials,

906
01:07:35.760 --> 01:07:38.840
let it. We can. We
can always send those maybeop, we can

907
01:07:38.880 --> 01:07:43.519
go back, and I think we
should gradually start adding them to the descriptions.

908
01:07:43.840 --> 01:07:45.400
Yeah, I think it's it's important. I always like to read the

909
01:07:45.480 --> 01:07:47.920
source materials. Yeah, because a
lot of people out there have done a

910
01:07:47.920 --> 01:07:53.320
lot of work investigating the journalists and
authors and everything, and we definitely want

911
01:07:53.320 --> 01:07:56.639
to give credit to where we're getting
the information from. I have been coming

912
01:07:56.679 --> 01:08:00.159
across a lot of paywalls lately,
and it's so frustrating. Like some newspapers

913
01:08:00.159 --> 01:08:02.760
are pretty open, but others are
just like, you need a subscription.

914
01:08:03.440 --> 01:08:06.400
It's tough because you want to support
and pay for journalism, but at the

915
01:08:06.400 --> 01:08:11.639
same time before you can investigating one
hundred cases and can afford that. Yeah.

916
01:08:12.000 --> 01:08:15.720
Yeah, So anyway, that's the
horrible sad case of Suzanne moorephew,

917
01:08:15.760 --> 01:08:18.720
and I hope her body's found.
I hope that. I hope her daughters

918
01:08:18.720 --> 01:08:24.600
are okay. I worry about Yeah, yeah, definitely. So what are

919
01:08:24.600 --> 01:08:28.680
we going to do with the rest
of our day? I don't know.

920
01:08:28.920 --> 01:08:31.039
I'm trying to go back to the
gas station and get dinner. Oh yeah,

921
01:08:31.119 --> 01:08:33.760
we could pick up some chicken at
the gas station. We've talked about

922
01:08:33.760 --> 01:08:36.880
that before. They have really good
fried chicken at the gas station. People

923
01:08:38.039 --> 01:08:43.359
fully like, you're poor, sad
pathetically, it's really good. You know

924
01:08:43.399 --> 01:08:45.039
what I read in the New York
Times today, This is gonna make you

925
01:08:45.079 --> 01:08:47.640
mad. It's not gonna really make
you bad. But pickleball is out.

926
01:08:48.159 --> 01:08:53.600
Oh like tell that to the literal
millions of people that are playing every weekend.

927
01:08:53.720 --> 01:08:56.720
Yeah, it's gotten very popular,
I think, but it's out,

928
01:08:56.760 --> 01:08:58.840
and how so? I guess you
can play it, but it's uncool.

929
01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:03.960
Well, what's next? I think
I think they said skateboarding. I'm not

930
01:09:04.039 --> 01:09:10.680
gonna pick up on skateboards. We
have several skateboards in the Actually, yeah,

931
01:09:10.720 --> 01:09:13.239
I was thinking we could run by
Homewoods and look, I need some

932
01:09:13.279 --> 01:09:17.159
new throw pillows. So let's do
that. And how about you do that

933
01:09:17.840 --> 01:09:21.680
and I will stay here and work
on my every waking moment I can with

934
01:09:21.760 --> 01:09:29.880
you on the weekend. That's nice. Is that on your list of grievances?

935
01:09:29.880 --> 01:09:34.800
Too much pillow shopping? Okay,
well I think that's all we have.

936
01:09:35.319 --> 01:09:41.359
All right, Well, thanks everybody
for listening. We're so grateful for

937
01:09:41.399 --> 01:09:43.520
all of our listeners. We really
are. We saying that a lot,

938
01:09:43.520 --> 01:09:46.000
but we really, really we really
needed, and I promise you, even

939
01:09:46.039 --> 01:09:54.079
if seventeen billion people listen to our
episode every time, we're still equally grateful

940
01:09:54.159 --> 01:09:56.920
for each and every download. We
may not be able to respond to every

941
01:09:57.399 --> 01:10:00.920
email or message, but I was
actually to that. I love so much

942
01:10:00.960 --> 01:10:05.239
talking to our listeners and hearing from
them, but I am getting more dms

943
01:10:05.319 --> 01:10:10.159
and more, so sometimes I'm going
to try my very best to respond to

944
01:10:10.199 --> 01:10:13.479
everyone because it really is important.
I love you guys, and I genuinely

945
01:10:13.520 --> 01:10:17.439
love talking to you, but sometimes
one might get lost. So if it

946
01:10:17.479 --> 01:10:20.880
takes me a couple of days,
don't feel bad if you resend something because

947
01:10:20.920 --> 01:10:24.840
I might just miss it sometimes.
Yeah. And on that note, follow

948
01:10:24.920 --> 01:10:29.439
us on Instagram or Facebook at Love
Mary Kill or on Twitter at LMK pod.

949
01:10:30.159 --> 01:10:32.960
We love to hear from you,
so don't be afraid to send us

950
01:10:32.960 --> 01:10:38.800
feedback or tell me if I got
Ellen Greenberg's age wrong. You can email

951
01:10:38.920 --> 01:10:42.760
us at Love Mary Kill at gmail
dot com, or you can contact us

952
01:10:42.800 --> 01:10:45.720
on our feedback form, which is
on our link tree, which you can

953
01:10:45.760 --> 01:10:49.119
find on our social media channels.
You know what I realized when we're recording,

954
01:10:49.319 --> 01:10:53.640
and I know you've realized this,
I'm like a bobble head, like

955
01:10:54.000 --> 01:10:58.119
if I'm like moving my arms and
heads, have you noticed this? Really?

956
01:10:58.319 --> 01:11:00.800
I like move around a lot,
so it's super I know that I'm

957
01:11:00.840 --> 01:11:04.439
doing it. So yeah, I
know when I when I do my cases,

958
01:11:04.520 --> 01:11:08.479
I use a lot of hand gestures. I think it helps me focus

959
01:11:08.520 --> 01:11:12.960
more. Yeah for sure. All
right, well that was that was interesting.

960
01:11:13.960 --> 01:11:15.640
Wait did you tell people to leave
us a review? No? I

961
01:11:15.640 --> 01:11:19.319
didn't. Why don't you leave us
a review? A five star review?

962
01:11:19.560 --> 01:11:25.760
That would be amazing. I also
wanted to give a serious thank you to

963
01:11:25.800 --> 01:11:29.880
all the people that have left left
of us, left us reviews. I

964
01:11:29.880 --> 01:11:33.399
think it's really important to think those
people continually because we always say I asked

965
01:11:33.439 --> 01:11:36.800
your reviews, but thank you so
much if you have taken the time to

966
01:11:38.439 --> 01:11:41.920
rate and review and subscribe, and
it means so much much to us.

967
01:11:42.079 --> 01:11:45.279
Yeah for sure. So until next
time, don't don't shoot your wife with

968
01:11:45.319 --> 01:12:03.039
a tranquilizer dart, and don't shoot
your husband with a tranquilizer dart. Summers

969
01:12:03.199 --> 01:12:13.359
ends around the bench, Just fly
the swimming suits around the land. Just

970
01:12:14.159 --> 01:12:25.520
drive. I'll meet you there for
our conversatetion. I who bad didn't ruin

971
01:12:25.640 --> 01:12:36.119
your whole bakytion where you never know
a fire from home, you feeling until

972
01:12:36.239 --> 01:12:44.239
you've watched the shadows crossed the sea, and well, I don't know,

973
01:12:45.079 --> 01:12:55.520
but I can't see it. Snowing
in your car the windows are wide open.

974
01:12:56.119 --> 01:13:02.439
Just come home home, Come on
long hard, No, you don't

975
01:13:02.520 --> 01:13:24.239
have to be alone, Just come
on, Hong. You continue. It

976
01:13:24.279 --> 01:13:27.239
always cacks up when I do the
exact same thing again. It's like,

977
01:13:27.319 --> 01:13:28.439
how does that happen?