The many wives of Drew Peterson - Part 2

0:00 Hi. I'm Tina and I'm Rich. And if there's one thing we've learned in over twenty years of marriage, it's that some days you'll feel like killing your wife and some days you'll feel like killing your husband. Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina. How are you? I'm doing all right? How are you? You know? You you the on the intro, you sounded a little low energy. Yeah, I'm feeling a little low energy. Yeah. Well we're recording. We did something we've never done before. It's Monday. We recorded part one or yeah, part one of Drew Peterson yesterday. Normally we just do them both in the same day, but we had to break. Why did we have to break? We had to break because of football, because of all And how did that turn out for you? It turned out really well. Yeah, you are quite happy. I am quite happy. But many people message us on social media and say Teleridge, congratulations, I'm reading for the lions and just lovely you peep, just lovely, lovely people, very lovely. It's very nice to hear. I feel especially good though, because you asked me for a score prediction and I said thirty one to twenty seven, and it was pretty close to bring that up. Yeah, do you want to tell the listeners what happened after the second game, the Kansas City game and the Buffalo Build game.

1:27 What happened there when you were laughing at the Buffalo poor Buffalo Bills. It was so mean because the Buffalo people like they I had a lapse. Well, was in this the third year in the road that Kansas City beat them in a playoff game? Oh? I don't know. I think I heard that online today. So people were like, genuinely, you know, just like I was wrong to make fun of the fan who was crying. I admit it. I was wrong. You need to be careful, sir, I do. I am pretty Are you sure there will be tears flowing if the Detroit Lions lose next week? I don't think it'll be too upset if they lose in the Super Bowl. I think he'll just be happy if they get Yeah. Well, here's the thing. Before the season even started, I made a bold prediction on our podcast. I'm going to go back and find it right now and insert it into the episode. Yes, okay, okay, So what do you think is going to happen for the Lions this season? I would like you to be able to I think they are going to make the playoffs. I really, I really feel confident that they are going to make the playoffs. Whether they go far in the playoffs, who knows. I believe you have said, I've said that around the dinner table that they could go to the super Bowl. I think it's I think it's possible. Yeah, you must say very of course it's possible. I mean, they play in the NFL, anyone could go to the super Bowl.

2:51 If I okay, if I, if you're going to pin me down to make a prediction that we can go back and look at later. My prediction will be that they will make it to the NFC championship game, and they will lose the NFC championship games, so they won't go to the super Bowl, but they'll get close. And at the time I made that prediction, I would have been super super happy if it came true, and now I'm gonna be kind of sad if it comes true. Of course. Yeah, but we'll see. She is now a football podcast. All right, let's move on. All right. I did bring a snack, and our lovely daughter made this snack, so I can take no credit for it. But they are just the cutest little cookies that you've ever seen. There, do you want to say it? Macarone? So I had a friend belittle me because I said macaroon once. So now whenever I have to say macarone, I get an intense amount of anxiety because obviously I am an uncouth, unrefined woman who cannot speak French at all. So those are macarons. I am no longer really friends with that person who belittled me. She belittled me a lot of show. Oh yeah, do you want to I know if we have tried the raspberry vanilla by the way, and they're just they're so cute. They're a little tiny, they're almost bite sized. Yeah yeah, but we've already tasted them. But do you want to taste a make?

4:15 I do, okay that they're so good they I think it took her about four hours to make them yesterday. As you know, I like to bake, but I am not a fancy baker. Where our daughter is. She's kind of a fancy baker, and she's just a more artistic person. She has the patience and the skills where I'm just kind of, you know, like to slap slap the dough on the cookies sheet and bacon. But she is more of an artist than I am. So yeah, they're delicious. We'll post the recipe. Yeah, they're really good. And usually I don't like fruity desserts, as you know, but this is just like the raspberry. It's just so refreshing and there's like just a tiny bit of raspberry jam on it. Okay, on to Drew Peterson. This is our official last Peterson podcast ever, maybe not ever, probably not ever. Maybe, I mean there are other bad Peterson's, but uh, should we summarize a little bit? Do you remember where we left off? I really actually don't remember where we left off, but I do remember that Drew Peterson is a horrible, horrible man who got married several times, usually or always to younger women.

5:28 And his yeah started out with like, you know, a three year gap on, then a five year gap on, the ten year gap, yeah, Kathleen, thirty year gap. Kathleen was his second wife, third one. Kathleen was his third wife. Stacy was his fourth wife. Okay, and Kathleen was found dead in a bathtub and they were separated. At the time he was with this seventeen year old girl or seventeen when they met Stacy, and they were Kathleen and Drew were going through a divorce and it was pretty ugly and they were he was going to lose a lot of money in the divorce. Yeah, And she was found dead, but it was ruled an accident, an accident, but Drew worked for the police department and had a lot of connections there in law enforcement, So the fact that her death was ruled in an accident was a little bit questionable even at the time.

6:20 We didn't talk about this during the first episode. But for a police officer, I think financially, Drew he was doing pretty well for him. He had a lot of side hustles and a lot of side hustles, and he owned I know he owned the bar, and I think he owned a couple of other businesses. I'm not sure exactly which ones he owned. But I don't think he needed to be a police officer necessarily, And I think he just liked the power. He liked the power that that job gave him. Yeah. On Sunday, October twenty eighth, the last day Stacey was seen or heard from, she was supposed to meet her sister Cassandra and her friend Bruce to paint the house they'd rented for her brother, Yelton. He had been in and out of jail for years, and he was given house arrest for his most recent sentence. Stacy and Cassandra had rented a house for him and painted it to make it homey, but he had quickly broken the terms of his house arrest and was shipped back to prison. The rental needed to be painted back to its original neutral colors. Bruce talked to Stacey at ten thirty that morning and she said she was on her way. Cassandra tried to reach her unsuccessfully the rest of the day, and Cassandra said she always answers the phone when I call it. So Cassandra was worried right away.

7:30 She knew something was something was off. Drew left the kids with his neighbor, Sharon. Remember Sharon, Sharon Bachowski Bikowski h vaguely. She was the next door neighbor. She was twenty five years older than Stacy, but they were like best friends, okay, and she spent a lot of time with the kids. She was like, you know, an aunt to the kids, and she's she kept them all the time, so the kids were with Sharon for several hours. Drew told her that he had arans to run later in the day. Tom Morphy, stepbrother of Drew Peterson, groggily answered the phone on the night of October twenty eight, two thousand and seven. Tom was a nice guy, but he struggled with bipolar disorder, alcoholism, and drug addiction. Drew helped him out by letting him work at SuDS Pub, but he was known to drink on the job and sometimes pass out. Tom had fallen asleep watching the Bears game. Who were the Bears playing? The Bears were playing the Lions? Oh? Who loved? I believe the Bears might have lost that day. By the way, listeners, everyone's always saying, oh, tell Rich you know congregate. No one ever gives me empathy about the Bears. Maybe people. I don't talk about it, but I'm a Bears fan. I am not a Lions. Yeah, I'm happy for you and the Lions, but I am I am definitely a Chicago Bear fan.

8:48 Drew asked Tom to meet him at the Starbucks and Bowling Brook at seven pm. Drew was scheduled to work the night shift, but he had called in sick. When Drew arrived at Starbucks, they made small talk for a few minutes before Drew made an odd request. He handed Tom his cell phone and asked him to keep it with him at the Starbucks and not answer it no matter what. Drew left. About thirty minutes later, the phone screen lit up with an incoming call. The caller ID identified the number as Stacy's. Tom did not answer it. Drew reappeared thirty minutes later at the Starbucks. He thanked Tom, and the two men parted ways. A couple of hours later, Drew called again and asked Tom to come to his house to help him move something. When Tom arrived, Drew took him into the primary bedroom, where a large, blue, sealed fifty five gallon barrel sat in the middle of the room. That's not odd at all is in the bedroom.

9:45 Tom later recalled. It was warm to the touch and weighed about one hundred and twenty pounds. Stacey weighs about one hundred pounds, and the barrel you know, probably yeah, Drew told Tom it was chlorine, But wouldn't it has been like slashing, yeah, exactly. They carried the blue barrel outside to Drew's gmc denali and hoisted it inside the vehicle. Drew told Tom he needed to go deliver the chlorine to a man he was selling it to. Like, come on, and if it was chlorine, why would you have a barrel of chlorine in your bedroom? In your bedroom, why would you It's just ridiculous. And he didn't mention any smells. And I mean, obviously you wouldn't have a barrel of chlorine in your bedroom, but if you did, it would smell. And anyway, it's just Drew told Tom that Stacy was out with her sister and the children were sleeping. Drew handed Tom a lot of bills and sped off. Tom returned home and tried to process what had just happened. After several drinks and a handful of pills, he walked to his good friend and neighbor Walter martin Nick's house. When Walter answered the door, Tom said, I think I just helped Drew move Stacy's body. Walter said he was distraught and racked with guilt. He tried to give him the money that Drew had given him. The next day, Tom awoke in the hospital. He had nearly died from an overdose oh wow, and this was so Stacy hadn't even been reported missing at this point, so he just he knew what was going on, even though she hadn't disappeared yet.

11:11 Yeah, I mean, he just he had a feeling. Yeah. Here's Drew's account of what happened on October twenty eighth. He said he worked the late shift on October twenty eighth, and when he returned in the early hour mornings, he said he briefly talked to Stacy before she left for the day. The kids woke him up around ten am and Stacy was already gone. Drew was scheduled to work that evening, but he called in sick. He said he had plenty of sick days and he'd lose them if he didn't take them. He claimed Stacy called him that night at nine pm and told him she was leaving him for another man. Drew went to look for Stacy and he didn't find her, but he found her car at Clow Airport, which is a small airport about a mile from their house. And he walked there for some reason and he found Stacy's car and then he drove it back.

11:58 Okay, so he just knew her car was going to be at the airport, so he's like, I'll just walk there. But okay, this is not adding up. No, Drew said that Stacy, like her mother, abandoned her children and she'd run off with another man. He claimed that Stacy had been seeing as many as five other men and she ran off with one of them to the Bahamas or Jamaica, along with twenty five thousand dollars in cash, her passport, the title to the car's house, and a bikini. So you know, Stacy, what do you think about that? I think it's a bunch of boloney. Obviously, there is no evidence to support Drew's claim. Stacy's friends and family knew that she would never abandon her children as her mother had abandoned her. Investigators did recover text messages on Stacy's phone from another man, Scott rosetto thirty five, a nurse whose twin brother had briefly dated Stacy Earl's years earlier, when she was a minor. I need to add, so he's thirty five. Stacy at this time is twenty three, so there's a twelve difference. So she would have been really young then too. So it just is disturbing to me. That so many men think it's okay to date a minor. He said Stacy texted out of the blue about three weeks before she vanished. Rosetto said that he and Stacy were just friends, and she confided in him that she was unhappy in her marriage and was planning to divorce Drew. The text messages, however, were more than friendly. They were flirty and promiscuous. Scott thanked Stacy for their quote

13:28 physical activity in one text. The last text from Stacy's phone were sent to Scott Rosetto on the morning of October twenty eighth, So you can probably put two and two together what might have happened here. Drew might have seen this. But they were Stacy and Drew were they remind me, I know we talked about it last time, But were they headed toward divorce? Like, were they already? I don't know if Drew knew that she was planning on divorcing him. We don't know what his state of mind is, And I mean, he definitely did not want a divorce. But remember Stacy had told, you know, her sister and the reverend that she was talking. She had you know, she had told multiple people that she was seeking a divorce. So it's possible that he just found out about it that day, Yeah, Stacian's well, it's possible too that you know, Stacy knew that she had to have a plan in place. You know a lot of women have to have like a very they have to have the money sake, and like she was going back to school, and they can't just leave. Knowing Drew, if he had found out that she was making a plan to leave, he would have flipped out right. He would have either made her life miserable or he would have been viable. He would have done everything to stop her.

14:35 And yeah, yeah, Stacy and Scott met at Denny's about a week before she disappeared. Do you think they had moons over my Hammi? Drew showed up dressed in uniform, driving his squad car in an attempt to intimidate Rosetto. He entered the restaurant and sat at the table with Scott and Stacy. Scott said, quote, he asked me how I'd feel if my wife went off with another guy. He just kept staring at her. He sat with a for a good fifteen to twenty minutes. End quote. He asked Scott for his id jew stared at it for a few minutes and handed it back to him. So Drew did know about Stacy and Scott, or at least saw them together one time, but maybe he didn't know that they were Well. Remember Drew followed Stacy everywhere. Yeah, not everywhere, but you know a lot of the times. He had to know where she was all the time. And Stacy was adamant that they were just friends to Drew, and I mean Scott said they were just friends too, but it seemed like they were more than friends. Yeah, but I don't think Drew had any inkling that Stacy wanted a divorce. Okay. Police would later search near Scott's home in Shorewood, Illinois for Stacy. They didn't think Scott had anything to do with Stacy's disappearance, but they thought that Drew may have wanted it to look that way, and Stacy's phone had pinged near his house. When questioned later by police, Rosetta was adamant that their relationship was platonic, but police didn't believe him due to this section nature of the text messages they'd intercepted.

16:03 Cassandra Kale's Stacy's younger sister, called Drew at eleven pm on October twenty eighth. He answered and said he was home. Cassandra knew who was lying because she'd just driven by the house and hadn't seen his truck when she knocked on the door. One of her nephews answered the door and told her that his parents had had a big fight that morning and he didn't know where they were. It's poor kids. They've been through it. They've been through a lot, and it's just really sad. Cassandra went to the Illinois State Police to report Stacy missing. Hundreds of people came out to search for Stacy in the weeks and months to follow. No trace of her was ever found. Police later examined Drew's phone records and found his phone had pinged in Romeoville near the Chicago Sanitary and Ship Canal. The Sanitary and Ship Canal is a twenty eight mile stretch from Chicago to Lockport, Illinois, that connects the Chicago River to the des Plains River. It was built to curtail waste walk from entering and polluting Lake Michigan. It took eight years to be built. It opened in nineteen hundred. Engineers devised a way to dilute Chicago's sewage using water from Lake Michigan and then send it down the canal. Before the construction of the canal, wastewaters entered Lake Michigan, which was problematic because Chicago's drinking water was drawn from the lake, causing typhoid dysentery and cholera. In nineteen fifty five, the American Society of Civil Engineers deemed the canal one of the seven Wonders of American Engineering. The Chicago Sanitary and Ship Canal is significant as a component of

17:37 the Illinois Waterway, which opened in nineteen thirty and created a navigable waterway connecting Chicago and Lake Michigan with the Mississippi River and beyond. Eventually, the canal opened up shipping routes from the Great Lakes to the rest of the world. It is interesting, I love these little rabbit holes. All of this to say that the Sanitary Ship Canal is murky wide and as deep as twenty four feet in some spots, it was very difficult to search. Law enforcement searched the canals for Stacy's body using equipment with the latest technology. The water in the canal was lowered as many as twenty five to thirty submerged stolen vehicles were removed from the water to search more thoroughly for Stacy, but she wasn't found after weeks of looking in frigid temperatures and adverse weather conditions. Drew knew the rules of the game all too well. He knew if Stacy's body was not found, it would be much harder to prosecute him for her murder, and he knew the canal was the perfect place to dispose of a body. On Halloween, the Illinois State Police served and executed a search warrant at Drew in Stacey's home and vehicles. Eleven guns, computers, and other miscellaneous items were taken. Cadaver dogs were brought in and they alerted in the primary bedroom.

18:57 However, that was later disputed. On November ninth, the State Police called Stacy's disappearance a potential homicide and named Drew as a suspect, but no charges were filed. No body murder cases in Illinois are difficult to prosecute. The bowling Brook Police were suspicious of Drew Peterson from the start. His career with the police force was long but checkered. He had been under investigation several times during his career. He found himself under investigation again for an undisclosed reason in November. It had something to do with stacy. He retired from the Bowlingbrook Police Department on November twenty one, two thousand and seven, after nearly thirty years on the force. His retirement ended the internal affairs investigation and saved his six thousand dollars a month pension. He was scheduled to meet with internal affairs the next day. Some in the department were incredulous that he hadn't been fired, including Police Chief Ray mcgury, who blamed Drew for bringing shame to the bowling Brook Police Department and he wanted to see him fired. Quote. I still don't think it was a valid retirement. I'm not an attorney, and there's absolutely well, there's no doubt he circumvented the system so that he didn't have to stand, you know, and be charged with some things. Unquote.

20:17 Chief mcgurry, by the way, requested an investigation into his department by the FBI. He wanted to make sure that Drew Peterson didn't receive any preferential treatment. After the death of Kathleen Saviot, it's admirable of Chief mcgury to bring the FBI in. I think, oh absolutely. Can you believe Drew didn't get fired though, that they let him keep his pension? I mean, you hear that. It seems to happen a lot, you know, I don't know. It's like they're afraid to fire somebody. They said legally, they knew that they would lose, so that's why they didn't try to keep it from him. Yeah, the FBI was brought in to help with the case. An FBI profiler classified Drew as a narcissist and said that he was likely capable of murder. I'm shocked. I agree. In late November, a grand jury convened to consider charging Drew. They were given four months, with a likely extension of six months. The grand jury was also working on the case of Lisa Stebeck, a thirty eight year old mother of two who went missing on April thirtieth, two thousand and seven, from Plainfield, Illinois. The cases are eerily similar, and maybe we'll cover Lisa's case in an upcoming podcast. During this time, I'll talk about the book that I read later, But the journalist was Joe Hoosey. I think his name is, and he listed like there were about ten women that went missing from this area during it was like a two to three year period. It's really crazy.

21:45 Wow. On Christmas Eve, twenty four year old a new Slonky disappeared from Des Plains, Illinois. Her husband said she'd gone to the river to place a religious statue there, and he feared that she had drowned. The statue of the deity Ganesh they'd received as a wedding gift had broken. A Hindu priest told them that placing it in the water would ward off the bad luck a broken statue might otherwise bring to its owners. A rigorous search ensued, but a news body was never found. Days later, anew was found in southern California with a man who aided in her escape. Drew and his lawyer pointed to this incident as proof that Stacy had also fled her marriage and made a ridiculous appeal to the state attorney. Drew's attorney, Joel Brodsky said, quote, we're demanding that the state's attorney come forward and state if Stacey comes back right now or shows herself, she will not be prosecuted or sued.

22:41 Unquote isn't that ridiculous. That's completely ridiculous. Twelve days after Stacy disappeared, authorities decided to reopen Kathleen Savio's case. Her family quickly agreed to an exhumation. They'd been begging for Kathleen's case to be reopened for years. Her body was a zoomed on November ninth, two thousand and seven. On February twenty first, two thousand and eight, the manner of Kathleen's death was changed from accident to homicide. The cause of death remained drowning. Famed forensic pathologist, doctor Michael Baden oversaw the exhumation. The autopsy was performed by doctor Larry Bloom. I'm doctor Larry Bloom. I performed an autopsy on Kathleen Sabio.

23:26 I believe there were of up to sixteen areas of her body that showed injuries, and she had bruises on both sides. All the bruises that I looked at appeared to be very recent. But to slip in a small garden sized tub in her home and come up with all these injuries, I couldn't conceive of it. I found Kathleen Savio died of drowning due to homicidal means. An exceptional amount of bruising was found on Kathleen's body that doctor Bloom called fresh bruising. The original autop had declared them old and not acquired at the time of Kathleen's death. The Savvo family paid for the exhumation, but I actually think that Fox News paid for it. Oh really And the second autopsy, Yeah, they were given like exclusive rights to it. And I can't remember which host it was, but one of the hosts. It's kind of kind of icky, but they released the results of the autopsy on air. Interesting, Yeah, but I mean, at least she got the second autopsy, regardless of who paid for it. It was. It was amazing that they were able to do that. And I just I can't believe there's so much information that you can still get from a corpse that's been buried for three or four years. Well, especially like the recency of the bruising. That that is interesting to me that he was able to make that determination after this much time had passed. Well, and the original pathologist had, you know, just said oh, those were old bruises. But I think there was I don't know if there was pressure to declare her cause of death and accident maybe.

24:57 Yeah. With Kathleen's cause of death now changed to homicide, all eyes were on Drew Peterson, but there was still no evidence directly tying him to Kathleen's death, and now his alibi had vanished and she could no longer vouch for him. A miscalculation by Drew. Oh yeah, he got rid of his alibi. Didn't even think about that. Will County prosecutor, well, he didn't think he was going to get caught. Will County Prosecutor James Glasgow told the media that he believed Kathleen's death was a homicide staged to look like an accident. He believed Drew had drowned Kathleen in the toilet and then posed her in the bathtub. Oh wow, it's just so hor Like the woman that you loved, that you married, that you know, she had your children, and that's that's what you do with it. Yeah, that's awful.

25:48 I wonder, like, I wonder how he came to the conclusion that Drew drowned her in the toilet, Like there was a gash on the back of her head, was it? I think there was some some of the bruising was around her neck something from the exhumation. I didn't talk about this, but her hyoid bone had dissolved. I think, oh yeah, they said there was no evidence of a high weid bone anymore. Yeah, so they couldn't tell if she'd been strangled. I think the bruising around her neck made them think, like, you know, they kind of grabbed her and pushed her head down, and it's just so horrible. Yeah, think about her way to die. I know that he's thinking about it. We'll be right back. It's hard to believe in hindsight, but Drew initially hid from the media following Stacy's disappearance. The blinds on his house were tightly drawn and the front door was never opened. He avoided the cameras and declined interviews, but soon, like a butterfly vacating its cocoon, Drew emerged from his house and became his own spokesperson. He held court every day and seemingly loved the attention and egged the media on Heraldo Rivera was the first interv you granted by Drew. Haraldo wasn't a fan of Drew's He called him the skunk of Bowling Brook. That's great. A media frenzy ensued, with all the major media outlets camped out on his block waiting to catch a glimpse of the most famous man in Bowling Brook. Greta van Sustern reported live outside of Drew's house in

27:18 the first days of Stacy's disappearance and was allowed in his home to film a day in the life of Drew. He enjoyed playing mister mom in front of the cameras. On one occasion, Drew told Matt Lauer during one of his three appearances on The Today Show, quote, I'm not trying to be funny here, but Stacy would ask me for a divorce after her sister died on a regular basis. I'm not trying to be funny, and it was based on her menstrual cycle. What the heck? He's a great, great guy. While on the Today Show, he begged an attorney to come forward to defend him, although he had already hired two perfectly good attorneys. Joel Brodsky, an attorney from Chicago, came for and offered to defend Drew. Brodsky, like Drew, never met a camera, he didn't love, and had questionable morals. His law license had been suspended by the Illinois Bar Association for three months after he'd forged a deceased client's signature on a check to pay himself.

28:17 Brodsky encouraged Drew to continue his shenanigans with the media. In January, Drew called into Chicago on air personality Steve Doll's radio show, which led to an on air contest win a date with Drew Peterson. Drew loved the idea, but the radio station management wisely shut it down. Drew seemed to be having a great time playing with the media, and the media obliged him by giving him endless airtime and closely following his every move. Drew appeared on Fox News with Shepherd Smith. The interview began amiably enough, but it devolved quickly when Smith asked him about neighbors witnessing him carrying a blue fifty five gallon barrel out of his house in the hour after Stacey disappeared. I think Drew had a bit of a love hate relationship with the media. He loved the attention, but anytime, like Shep Smith did, would ask him a hard question like that or something you know, pointing to evidence against him, he would get very irritated. I vaguely remember this period of time, and you couldn't turn your TV on without seeing him on one show or another. It's shocking how many shows he was on. He was on The Today Show three times.

29:29 He was on Larry King several times. Remember Larry King Live? Yeah, oh yeah, that was a good show. Yeah. I put together a little montage of a few of these clips, and looking at these brought back memories to me too, because I had forgotten all about him. But when I saw these, I was like, oh, yeah, I remember him being everywhere. Now that we would be remiss to do this episode and not talk about Drew in the media, because that was such an important part of the case. I think initially I thought that people were supporting him, but no, I think everyone was like, why is this Turkey on our TV? Right? Yeah, well, here are a few of those clips. What's going on today? What's going on today? Yes, we went to McDonald's. We had happy meals and mcgroub sandwiches. How's that? And that's what's going on today. What I want to talk about is I'm gonna come camp myself in front of your house and see if you like it.

30:21 Please go home. Thanksgivings the next couple of days. Please go home. Please leave me alone. Please don't get involved in my little world. Folks, this is the holiday season. I know at least five families that are losing their homes that are in this area. You probably should put it maybe a little bit of effort into saving these people and their families or reaching out to your fellow man if someone needs a shoulder to cry on or they need a meal for their families, you guys should be maybe putting a little more effort into doindo rather than harassing my family. Folks, have a good day. Will you ever physical with her? Never? Never? Those stories are totally untrue, correct. You know, I'm a police officer, right and I don't work for the phone company or the power company, And as a police officer, we don't have the same ability to do things as the common person. If I get involved in a domestic situation where I'm physical with a wife, I'll lose my job and I would never even care to even come close to risking that. And I kind of challenge anybody out there to find anybody that has ever even seen me mad. So you don't have a temper.

31:29 No, it's are you in love with Jacy very much? So I think you might be alive. I do the neighbors said that they saw you carrying out a big blue barrel. That would be big again, Shepherd, that's not what we agree to talk about. I didn't. I didn't agree to any any restrictions on conversation. I would never do that. I just I just wonder, Okay, well then then I guess I got to walk away. Have a good day, mister Shepherd. It was nice talking you. Well, he'll talk about the dating, guess, but he won't talk about the fact that the neighbors that the neighbors say they saw him with a large, fifty five gallon blue barrel. I love Shepherd Smith for that. I would never agree to restrictions. I a good interview is a good interview.

32:15 Yeah. Watching those clips too, I was just struck by how like just how smug and like he had a smirk on his face and just he just seems so arrogant and you'd be hard pressed to find a cockier man in the United States. Drew took the children to Disney World shortly after Stacy's disappearance, when he returned. There was an anonymous letter from someone claiming to have seen Stacy on November eighteenth, two thousand and seven. The letter writer claimed Stacy was with an unidentified man and when they approached her, she implored the letter writer to leave her alone. She said, please, don't ruin my life. Please, I just want to be left alone. Please. They snapped a picture of Stacy, but it wasn't included in the letter. The letter was sent to Drew's house, but it was addressed to Joel Peterson.

33:05 So Drew had driven to Disney World and I can't remember where the letter was from, but somewhere all. Yeah, it was pretty much postmarked along the route and it was it was fairly obvious that pretty weak attempt at giving him an excuse, And it was addressed to Joel Peterson, which is weird. But Joel Brodsky as his attorney, so I think he was just confused and very convenient that they snapped a picture but they didn't send it. You can't see it, but believe me, there's a picture. Sharon Bakowski, Stacy's friend and neighbor, mounted a large sign in her yard with Stacy's picture that read Where's Stacy. She did it to antagonize Drew. Sharon and her son organized an informal boycott at local bars. If Drew walked in, the patrons would leave him sitting by himself. I love that too, I know.

33:58 So the public really did start to hate him, and Sharon put this huge poster on her front lawn, which I thought was great, But then I thought, well, these poor kids are still living there. And the two little ones, Lacey and Anthony, they were like two and three or two and four, so they were really little and they were probably missing their mommy, and so that made me kind of sad. In December two thousand and eight, Treu announced he was engaged to a twenty four year old woman named Christina Rains because he couldn't get any younger than Stacy had been. Drew was a friend of the Rains family and had known Christina when she was younger. They were later reacquainted at a local bar. Christina soon moved into Drew's house.

34:43 She said Drew was good to her, but claims that he admitted to her that he strangled Stacy, placed her body in a blue barrel, and dumped her body two and a half hours away. Here's a clip of Christina being interviewed by Julie Chen. Do you love him? I don't love him. Did you love him? I thought I did. How did you become engaged to him? When did you become engaged to him? It's never an engagement. What was it? Then? It's more like a stunt, a stunt? Yes, on whose part Andrew? So he could be in the media. Did you know it was a stunt? When well? He had told me that his lawyer had wanted him to be in the media and wanted to propose to someone at a restaurant. And then what happened? So he said to you, we're friends, we're dating. You wanna be part of this stunt? Is that how it went down? That's how it went down.

35:46 But I would not go with it. I would not go along with it. What would you say to him? I told him? No. He had said, well, it comes out that I am engaged to someone. It's not really true. So you were never engaged him, Is that what you're saying? No, I was never engaged to him. Why would any lawyer want his client in this situation to be in the media more and more and especially to be in the media for getting engaged to a new girl when his wife is missing. It doesn't make any sense. Well, you know what they say, No publicity is bad publicity. I guess it took more than a year for Drew Peterson to be arrested after the exhumation of Kathleen's body. On May eighth, two thousand and nine, while Drew was driving, he was pulled over, arrested without incident, charged with quote two counts of first degree murder, one with the theory of intentional killing, the second for knowingly doing an act that can cause great bodily harm. He was held on a twenty million dollar bond. The state attorney said Kathleen's death appeared consistent with the staging of an accident to conceal a homicide. His arrest interfered with the trip he was planning the next day to Reno, Nevada, where he planned to meet with HBO to appear on cat House, a reality show about one of Nevada's legal brothels. That makes perfect sense that he would appear on that classy fella. Drew began a website, defendrew dot Com to solicit donations

37:17 towards his legal defense. It's unclear how much money he received. Maybe we could donate this month to him with RP. Yes you no, I'm gonna say no to that one, okay. In two thousand and eight, the Illinois General Assembly passed Drew's Law. You're gonna like this. Drew must have been thrilled to have a law name are for him. First of all, Drew's Law made it legal for a judge to admit hearsay statements if the prosecutor can prove a defendant may have killed a witness to prevent him or her from testifying. Similar laws are used in organized crime cases. And what does hearsay I mean? Isn't it a statement that like somebody made to somebody else.

37:58 So if I came into court and said, oh, so and So told me this, that would be hearsay. The official definition is a statement made outside of judicial proceedings, and it's considered unreliable and usually not admissible in trials. But they made an exception good, which is I thought was amazing. The law made the words of Kathleen Savio and Stacy admissible and allowed them to testify in a way against Drew. And Drew did have I mean, he had good old Joel Brodsky, but he had a dream team of lawyers. He had several different people that were working for him. In a surprising move, the defense called Harry Smith, a divorce attorney whom Stacy had contacted days before her disappearance, to testify for the defense. Here's a clip of Harry Smith and one of Drew's defense attorneys discussing how it went. Stacy sort of casually said to me, could I get more money in the divorce if we go to the police and tell them how Drew killed Kathy? Just said it.

39:00 Mister Bronski wanted to clarify the fact that what Stacy had done was asked me, could she get more money if we told the police he killed Kathleen. He did that a couple of times, and he gave me the ability to keep saying no. She said, if I tell him how he did it. And I think driving that point home was a problem. It went worse than I could have ever imagined. If I had been an alcoholic, I would have pulled out my flask right there in the courtroom and started drinking. Well that's what you get when you defend monsters. I guess. So State's attorney Jim Glasgow called Smith's testimony a gift from God that was a little confusing. Do you understand what happened there? I have to admit I'm a little I think my brain is a little slow today, but I am not fully understanding what that clip meant. Well, it's nuanced, like the words.

39:54 Basically, the defense thought Stacy was trying to get more money out of the divorce by saying, well, I'll just say that Drew killed Kathleen. But what she was really saying was, well, I know how Drew killed Kathleen, and I am willing to tell you. And the defense didn't realize. Okay, yeah, so they were just kind of shocked and blindsided that, you know, Stacey actually did know exactly what happened. Gotcha. Cassandra and Reverend Shorey were among the witnesses, as was Thomas Drew and Kathleen's son, and he defended his father he didn't think he was capable of murder. A former co worker of Drew's, Jeff Patcher, testified that in the months before Kathleen's death, Drew had offered him to twenty five thousand dollars to kill her. Drew never testified, which I was kind of surprised by. You would think he would have loved the attention. Yet, the trial lasted three weeks and there were forty four witnesses. On September fifth, two thousand and nine, the jury began deliberations. They deliberated for about a day and Drew was found guilty of NaN's first agree murder. During the sentencing hearing, Drew yelled at the courtroom insisting he didn't kill Kathleen. He said, quote, this is the largest railroad job ever. He challenged prosecutor at Glasgow to look him in the eyes. He was allowed to address the courtroom. Good aggravated the situation here, I thought, I think that can need to be sad.

41:22 Say whatever you choose with no sure that one prosecuted looking in India AFL today and the hope he never pretty good. You've done here be forced to sit side out since the beginning of all lane Well, the guy who doesn't have a temper. Huh that was kind of crazy having just helded that out out of nowhere. Yeah. Drew sixty one was sentenced to thirty eight years in prison. The maximum sentence was sixty years, which I'm like, Why did you not give him the maximum sentence and he won't be eligible for parole until he is ninety three years old. That is strange. Like you said, it was first degree murder he was found guilty of him was thirty eight years. Usually when you hear first degree murder, you think like life, but I guess that's not always the case. While fearing an impending arrest, Drew had given his oldest son, Stephen, who worked as a police officer in nearby Oakbrook, Illinois, a check for two hundred thousand dollars. He told him to keep it in case he was arrested to help raise the children, but Drew likely gave Steven that large sum of money to bail him out of jail. In my opinion, Drew brought three firearms to Stephen's house for him to store. When police searched Drew in Stacy's house, they came across ammunition but no guns. They asked where the weapons were, and Drew told him they were at Steven's house. Police ask Stephen to come in for questioning

42:54 and bring along the weapons. Stephen's commanding officer pressed and turned old charges against him, alleging he impeded the investigation into his father. Steven denies this adamantly, but he was fired anyway. Since Drew's convictions, Stephen has struggled with anxiety, depression, and alcohol and drug addiction. His wife left him and took their daughter. Stephen moved into his father's former home in bowling Brook and took care of his four younger siblings, which is pretty admirable. He has stated that he thinks Drew likely killed both Kathleen and Stacy. Eric Peterson, Drew's second son, hates his father. He said he wasn't a good dad and was abusive towards his wife's and is certain of his guilt. In April twenty twenty one, Eric was arrested for possessing forty marijuana plants in his home.

43:46 Thomas, however, is doing great. He was a valedictorian of his class at Bolingbrook High in twenty twelve. He majored in neuroscience at Penn State. And I don't have any updates on the youngest two kids, but it's hardably, but they're adults now too. I did see pictures on I always feel like such a stalker, but I looked at Stevens Facebook and he had a lot of pictures of all six kids together, which was it was pretty heartwarmingly. His reason is this Christmas. I think they had pictures all together, and you can't tell much by a picture, but they all but yeah, at least they're cappy and together and that was wonderful to see. That's a good sign. Not surprisingly, Drew has filed multiple appeals. He has cited ineffective council that Kathleen and Stacy's conversations and writings to others shouldn't have been admitted because they were hearsay, but as you mentioned, that was Drew's law right. He's blamed Hollywood, saying that a movie starring Rob Low portrayed him in a very negative light in the eyes of the jury, and he's claimed that Will County State's Attorney James Glasgow, was an over zealous and unethical prosecutor who intimidated witnesses. To date, all of his appeals have failed. So I'm I really wanted to see the Rob Low movie and I couldn't find it durn lifetime. I can't picture Rob Low as Drew Peterson. I did watch a two minute clip and I don't know he didn't do a horrible job.

45:14 But I think it would be really hard to play Drew Peterson. Yeah, and Rob Low. I mean he's a beautiful man, and I mean Drew Up. Yeah, he'sicky. Drew Peterson approached fellow inmate Antonio the Beast Smith to help him use his connections to have Will County State Attorney James Glasgow, the attorney who had successfully prosecuted him for Kathleen's death, murdered. Drew openly despised Glasgow. Smith was a former member of the gang Satan's Disciples, and he was serving a forty year sentence for attempted murder, home invasion and robbery. I guess if you want to have somebody murdered, I would go to a guy named the Beast. You can't do it. After Drew asked him for his help, Antonio Smith contacted the state's attorney and volunteered to wear a wire to record his conversations with Drew Peterson. In the recordings, Drew blamed Glasgow for his incarceration and the loss of his police pension. He also claimed that his son, Stephen, was fired from his job as a police officer because of Glasgow's actions. Drew was charged with attempted murder. In February twenty fifteen, the case went to trial and the damning recordings from the Beast were played in court. We don't have any of those, but oh I wish we did. I bet the beast. I mean, you imagine, if you're a cop in prison, you probably people probably don't like you very much if they know, if they knew he was a cop. So the Beast this guy probably was like, oh man, what a great opportunity to get this guy. Well, I don't know much about the Beast, but I

46:45 know that he and Drew. I don't know if he did this, you know, intentionally, but he befriended him, and you know, true thought they were best friends. They ate their meals together and they spent their time together in the yard. Yeah, the Beast may have just set up. Yeah. Antonio Smith testified at the trial and he claimed that Drew told him that he killed Stacy and through her body in Lake Michigan. Wow. The jury deliberated for less than an hour and Drew has found guilty on the additional solicitation of murder charge, and an additional forty years was added to his prison sentence. Good but he will be eligible for parole when he is one hundred and twenty seven years old. Just picturing one hundred and twenty seven year old Drew. H Yeah. The body of Stacy Peterson sadly has never been found and no one has ever been charged with her murder, which is just oh so horrible. Drew is looking for wife number five, however, in prison, of course he is. Yeah, sure, I'm sure he's getting some good mail. Candace Aiken, Stacy's aunt, has corresponded with Drew over the years, which I found really surprising. Hmm, that is very strange.

47:58 Drew's law was repeat after his conviction. Members of the jury said that here's the evidence was what solidified Drew's guilt for them. Without Drew's Law, he may not have been convicted. Oh that's interesting, well played. Yeah, but can they still like if the law was repealed, can't he go back then and say, well, the law is no longer valid, so that shouldn't have been allowed At this point. I mean, he's in prison for the other crime audition, so I think he should be in prison for Stacey's murder as well. I mean, I hope they find her remains on day In December twenty nineteen, Jew was released from federal custody and transferred to a state facility outside of Illinois. His location is not being disclosed for safety reasons.

48:45 Drew's lawyer, Joel Brodsky, had his law license suspended in twenty nineteen for two years for quote a pattern and practice of unprofessional behavior, including false allegations and inappropriate hiatribes and pleadings appropriate dietrone. It's so cold in here, I'm shivering, so I'm having a right time talking. Joel Brodsky talked to WGN News in twenty twenty two. And this is going to make you really mad. Look at me, don't look at the screen. Maybe it's time. It's something that weighs on my conscience. I would never do anything that would hurt or former a client. But he's in prison and he's never getting out. So if he's a man and he'd say, quote, I'm done, here's what happened end quote, so people can have closure. I know everything about both of his wives everything. I feel bad, and Drew is still not taking any responsibility, and Stacy's still being missing. I'm thinking about maybe revealing what happened to Stacy. And where she is end quote. Wow, so he knows hmm. I mean, it's an interesting it's really weird that he would even say that that much. But it is like, you know, attorney client privilege. He can't really say anything. He shouldn't have said that. Even he shouldn't have said that. He's obviously not a very ethical guy to begin with. Former appellate judge David Ericson said, quote, I think it's despicable to break that breaks the very trust that this entire system of law should be based away, right, I mean, just slip Cassandra.

50:10 Poor Cassandra has been through it. Slip her a little note something. Stacy's sister, Cassandra Cale's has not given up looking for her sister. She claims to have located Stacy's body at the bottom of the Chicago Sanitarian Ship Canal using advanced sonar two years ago. She gave the information to police, but they didn't send divers to the area until five months later, and they were unable to find the skeleton that Cassandra thought she found. She uses all of her time, personal material resources, along with public donations, continue to continue the search for Stacy. Cassandra has worked tirelessly trying to find her beloved sister and has helped many other families search for their loved ones too. She truly believed that one day she will find Stacy. Cassandra broke my heart because she really just loved her sister and just wanted her back so badly. Stacy and Kathleen's families were not allowed to see the children when they were growing up.

51:07 But like I said earlier, all the children are adults now, so I hope that they've been able to receive the love and support from their extended families. Yeah, I hope so too. Norma Peterson, the wife of Drew's brother Paul and Stacy's sister in law, has formed a nonprofit called Document the Abuse dot com. It is a website that allows victims of domestic abuse to document their experiences of domestic violence in an evidentiary abuse affidavid or an EAA. Here's a clip of Norma explaining the evidentiary abuse affidavid In watching what had gone on with Kathy, I mean, it just seemed so disgraceful and so disturbing.

51:53 And there was a domestic violence awareness advocate by the name of Susan Murphy Milano, who was working in this area right about the time that Stacy went missing and Kathy's case came up, and when she saw everything that Kathy had gone through, she had created something called an evidentiary abuse AFFI David. So what this evidentiary abuse Affidavid does is that it allows victims to write down everything that's happening to them in a way that is meaningful for them. So all those police reports that Kathy had, the hospital reports that she had, all of this can be put into this affidavit. It's called Document the Abuse.

52:36 You can find it online or literally getting out there into different countries and getting this information out there, because with the pandemic, as we've all seen, these numbers are going up. And when you don't feel like you can tell anybody, or it's not safe to tell anybody, sometimes just getting it out under paper can be healing. So now that becomes the legacy that I want to see for both Kathleen and for Stacy to present for her children. That's going to be their mother's legacy that they not will only be tributorson's wives, they will be the reason that other women and other victims, regardless of their gender will be able to hopefully survive these types of situations and to be able to give them the tools that they need in order to get out. And that has helped become my work in going through all of this as a way to again give legacy to these women, but also it's a way for me to heal and to move forward and do something positive. It's always just so moving to me and a family member who has gone through you know, something like that does something, you know, with their pain and with their tragedies.

54:04 You know, I can't talk right now, I know, I know, it's it's incredibly moving that. Yeah, you said that very well. Like nothing makes me more emotional than these brave victims, families that really want to make a difference. Yeah, I mean, and the cycle of violence. Yes, I just want to put myself in their shoes, like I don't know if I could even get out of bed or you know, well, I mean yeah, I mean it's been several years, but it's it's just so admirable, So well done. Again, that was document the Abuse dot Com. If you visit document the Abuse dot Com and you use Chrome, there's a quick escape button that goes to a different website right away, which I think is a really a really good idea. Well, that is the horrible story of Drew Peterson and rest in Kathleen. Yeah, and Stacy, I am so glad that Drew is in jail and we'll never get out.

55:00 Me too. Just it's just shocking that, you know, he got away with it. I mean he would have gotten away, Yeah, I mean he almost got away with it, all right. I have to compose myself sometimes I just you just don't know, and it's gonna but norma she stayed with the kids. I think a lot too, and you know, seems like a lovely person. Okay, so we are officially done. We are done with the Petersons. Done with the Petersons for until we find another horrible Peterson. Yeah. So our friend Kylie. Kylie is the sweetest, she's the hardest working. I always say she's the hardest working podcast or she is the host of Primetime Crime Crime with the k. We were texting back and forth about how horrible the Petersons are and how you know how gross Drew was, and I made her play not love Mary Kill, but Mary Kill.

55:57 Oh oh God, Like you can't cop out. You have to answer. So I guess I would ask you as I know you're not a woman, but you have you have to answer, Kylie did I'm not going to reveal her answers. I'll tell you mine if you tell you yours. Oh god, I can't, I can't. You could take a second to think about it, Okay, I really isn't that fun? I just think it's funny. I kill myself. I can't. Okay, we had to stop recording for ten minutes. Really think this is one of the most cruel things. If you're making me do this. I had to really think about this hard. Okay, But here I go. Okay, here's my answer. All right. I am going to marry Scott Peterson because he's like he tends to become whatever his partner wants. So as long as he doesn't kill me, I am going to f Michael Peterson. Well just you know, any it would be horrible any of them, but it'll get it'll be done, and they'll be done. Drew Peterson I'm gonna kill okay, all right, Yeah, I mean he deserves it. I mean really, I think I think you're right. I would marry Scott because he's I mean, you can hate me. But he's not. He's not horrible yet. I mean he's and he really isn't interested in me anyway, So he would never be home.

57:21 He'd always be with his girlfriend. I would probably f true and I'd kill Michael. Yeah, that's my answer. I so judge me. I was, Yeah, I was on the fence about that. I mean, really they you know, like you said, I'd rather take my own life. I can't believe that. I'm sorry. Please forgive us. We got a lot of new listeners lately, so thank you so much and welcome o G listeners. We love you, guys, and so grateful for you and all the people that message me. I love you guys. You're the best. Sometimes you're just the sunshine and brightness of my day. So know that I truly love you and we're for all best friends, and thank you.

58:04 I do too, even though I don't I don't handle like our you know, community outreach as much, but I love hearing yea from our listeners and all your your comments, stories and stilly us with rich. So thank you, thank you very much. Please rate, review, follow and subscribe, find us on social media, or send us an email at Lovemrykill at gmail dot com, and consider supporting us on Patreon dot com. Slash Love Mary Kill one tier five dollars a month for early ad free access and a monthly bonus episode. Till next time, The Accup the