The Mysterious Death of Robert Wone

WEBVTT

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Hi, I'm Tina and I'm Rich. If there's one thing we've learned over

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twenty years of marriage, it's that
some days you'll feel like killing your wife

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and some days you'll feel like killing
your husband. Welcome to love, Mary

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Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina. How are you? I'm great?

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How are you? I'm fabulous?
Sorry to interrupt your lions game. Oh

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it's okay, anything for you.
It's your birthday week. Yeah, it's

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super exciting. Oh, it is
super exciting. How old are you going

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to be? Old? Good enough? Good enough? So remember last night

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I was we were talking about interrogations, uh huh, and we were both

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like, because the case that I
am going to present to you, there's

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a lot of interrogation. Yeah,
And I was just like, I kind

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of want to be part of an
interrogation. I want to you do all

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right, I've got one for you. Okay. So one of our really

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sweet listeners offered to send us a
snack, and I was like, you

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know what, that's something I can
just pick up with the grocery store.

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She just wanted you to be able
to, you know, because she knows

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that you like a certain food and
she wanted us to try them on air,

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and so I went to find this
certain food and they were all gone,

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Okay, do you know what could
have happened to the Oreos, the

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doubles, the mega stuffed Oreos that
were this is the interrogation. Yeah,

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they go lawyer, lawyer, I
would they they were under arrest. If

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not, I'm just leaving. And
you should be because it was a crime,

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because they were all like I bought
it was. They were up there

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for a while, but it was
hidden, and if something is hidden,

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it's not like I'm being rude,
like this package of Oreos is just for

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me. But then I literally forgot
they were there, and I was like,

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oh, I need a snack for
this episode. We'll do the mega

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stuffed Oreos. So I have no
idea what you're talking about. Yeah,

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okay, where'd they go? Then, no idea? I will lawyer.

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I'm going to order the home fingerprint
kit, okay, and yeah, do

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some DNA testing and yeah, yeah, interesting. Well I did bring a

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snack, even though you don't deserve
it. Another Lovely listener recommended that we

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try something called Truefreu t r U
f r U. I've seen them around.

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I've seen people posting about them on
social media, but I hadn't tried

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them, and I kind of wanted
to. So I brought two kinds.

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I brought you peanut butter, banana
and cherry. Okay, so do you

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want to take a quick break and
try these? Sure, I didn't do

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a good job describing that to at
all. It's fruit. It's fruit that's

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frozen, and then it has some
chocolate on it. Yeah, it's kind

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of like a chocolate that you get
in a box of chocolates with like a

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fruit thing in the middle. Really
going to get a banana in a box

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of chocolate? That's true. That's
true. The cherry, I think.

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I like the cherry one. The
banana one not so much. I didn't

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really like the banana either. It's
like a banana with a little bit of

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peanut butter. And I was actually
going to make something like that homemade that

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I saw somewhere the banana, but
you kept me waiting for like half an

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hour because you were watching a lot
of ends game, and so the banana

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is a little mushy. I wonder
if it's better if it's a little pressure.

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Maybe I'm not cherry I love,
Yeah, I did too. I'm

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not just not a big fan of
bananas in my desserts. As you know,

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I don't. I don't know if
I know, other than your banana

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bread. I love your banana bread, but like banana cream pie and stuff

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like that that I'm just not a
family that Nilla way for putting stuff.

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I make that every once in a
while. Yeah, I love a bananas

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dessert. Actually, I love banana
cream pie, and I love You're just

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a heart. If it's not chocolate, you don't want to It's very difficult.

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I apologize. This is riveting.
As always, you're here for your

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oat Rich's dietary likes and dislikes.
Yeah, all right, Well, I

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have a I did research a case
here I want to present to you.

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Tell me looking forward to hearing about
it. Oh boy, it's probably one

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of the most other than Rebecca's how, because no case is more head scratching

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than Rebecca's a how. But the
mysterious death of Robert jan w o n

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E. That's a story I'm going
to be telling you. And I did

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want to give a content warning for
today's episode. While not explicit, there

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is some sexual content and adult themes
that might make some listeners uncomfortable. Please

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listen with care. I'll try to
give you a little bit of a like

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this is coming. You might want
to fast forward a little bit, but

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I'm not going to go into great
detail, and I'll try to make it

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as antiseptic as possible. Okay,
all right. On the night of August

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second, two thousand and six,
Robert Wan, thirty two, an attorney

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in Washington, d C. Worked
late into the night. Rather than taking

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a late train home to the suburbs, he crashed for the night with his

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college friend Joseph Price. Robert was
found dead one hour and nineteen minutes later

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from three abdominal stab wounds. The
inhabitants of the house claimed an intruder stabbed

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Robert, but there was no evidence
supporting this theory. I promise you will

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not be able to get this story
out of your head for days and weeks

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to come. This is the story
of the mysterious murder of Robert Juan.

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Robert Eric Juan was born in Manhattan
on June first, nineteen seventy four,

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to parents William and Amy. His
brother, Andrew was born five years later.

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William worked as a VP for Chase
Bank, and Amy was a school

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librarian. Robert was a fourth generation
Chinese American. He grew up in Brooklyn,

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where he went to an all boys
Catholic school and graduated at the top

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of his class. He was a
Mets fan and liked to go to the

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games with his family. He attended
the College of William and Mary in Virginia

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as a James Monroe Scholar, beginning
in nineteen ninety two, majoring in public

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policy. The College of William and
Mary is the second oldest college in the

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US, founded in sixteen ninety three, named for King William the Third and

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Queen Mary the Second. Only Harvard
has been in existence longer. Robert met

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Joseph Price during a campus tour with
his parents and became fast friends. Joe

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was a senior while Robert was a
freshman. Both were interested in pursuing a

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law degree. They were active in
student government together and also belonged to thirteen

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Club, whose mission was to do
random acts of kindness around campus. Robert

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was always thoughtful in caring, putting
others before himself. During finals week,

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Robert would surprise weary students studying at
the library with candy. He was known

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to carry loose change in his pocket
to put in expired parking meters. He

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made many lifelong friends at William and
Mary. Was recognized for his academic excellence

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by the Omicron, Delta, Kappa
Mortar Board, and Golden Key International Honor

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Society. Same same you mean you
me too, Jamesy's Yes, same me

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too. Of course, Well you
had more academic accolades than I did.

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Robert received the Elder Non Sydney Sullivan
Award from the college at graduation. It

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is presented to a student excelling in
quote characteristics of heart, mind and helpfulness

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to others. After he graduated from
William and Mary in nineteen ninety six,

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Robert went to law school at Penn
State and graduated in nineteen ninety nine with

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honors. He was exceptionally intelligent,
hard working, and ambitious. Robert was

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passionate about racial equality and proud of
his Chinese heritage. His accomplishments advocacy,

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volunteer work, and organizations he belonged
to are too long to list. Once

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out of law school, he passed
the bar I don't know this, but

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I'm guessing on the first time and
worked as a law clerk for federal Judge

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Raymond Jackson and then moved on to
the very prestigious law firm Covington and Burling,

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where he practiced real estate law for
six years. Sounds like a fabulous

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young man. Robert met Chicago attorney
Catherine Ellen Wu in January two thousand and

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two at a legal conference in Philadelphia. Kathy was first attracted to his voice

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over the phone when she called him
to ask him to be a panelist for

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a session she was organizing. I
don't want you to get a big head,

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but I was attracted to your voice. Oh, when we first met

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too. Now it's just great sammy
all day law, just creating. Be

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careful. I was just kidding.
You have a very nice voice. When

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they met in person, shy,
Kathy was interested but wasn't comfortable with being

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the aggressor, but she found the
courage to introduce herself. They felt an

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immediate attraction and talked late into the
night. They began talking on the phone

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regularly. Robert called Kathy every night
at eight pm. They had their first

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date on Valentine's Day when Kathy was
in DC for work. They began dating,

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flying frequently between Chicago and d C. That's like kind of a long

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distance relationship, ye After a month
long trip together to China, Robert surprised

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Kathy when they returned home with an
apartment filled with flowers, rose petals led

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to a silver box with a fortune
cooking inside, with the message will you

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marry me? Very romantic? I
know so sweet. They married soon after

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in June two thousand and three,
with Judge Jackson performing the ceremony. That's

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the judge that he had clerked for. Joe Price and his partner Victor Zeborski

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attended the wedding. Robert had recently
been elected president of the nonprofit group National

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Asian Pacific American Bar Association, who
are an organization representing Asian Pacific American lawyers

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in the United States. The group
advocates for the confirmation of more Asian Pacific

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judges. Robert was very active in
his church community and a mentor in the

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Asian American community. He was known
for his bright smile, intellect, kindness,

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and generosity of his time and skills, doing pro bono law work whenever

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possible, among his many other obligations
to the organizations he belonged to. Do

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you feel I feel lazy? Like
when I hear about people like this,

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I'm like I get out of I
don't. Yeah, I need to step

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it up. Yeah, need too. He and Kathy wanted to start a

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family. Kathy had lupis and was
warned by her doctors that becoming pregnant may

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endanger her life. Robert told her, quote, it took my whole life

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to find you. Why would I
want to endanger your health for anything.

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The couple had just started the process
to adopt a baby girl from China.

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In July two thousand and six,
Robert landed his dream job at Radio Free

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Asia as general counsel. Radio Free
Asia is a nonprofit organization funded by the

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US government that broadcasts news and cultural
programming to China, North Korea, and

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other parts of Asia. It was
a pay cut for Robert, but he

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knew the importance of getting accurate news
and information to Asian countries lacking free media.

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Kathy encouraged him to take the job. She told him she didn't need

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a Lexus, A Honda was just
fine. I mean, just a lovely

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couple, A lovely couple. In
two thousand and six, Joseph Price thirty

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five and the Victors of Boriski forty
had been in a committed relationship since the

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year two thousand. Joe was well
known in the Lgbtqia community. He co

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founded and served as General counsel for
Equality Virginia. From two thousand and two

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to two thousand and six, he
worked as an attorney for Erant Fox,

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a prestigious law firm where he practiced
intellectual property law. Victor z Aboriski is

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known to be kind, quiet,
and subdued. He was a marketing executive

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for the Dairy Association and worked on
the very popular got Milk campaign. Well,

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it's a great campaign. It was
a great They really no one drinks

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milk anymore. Everyone drinks almond milk
or oat milk or soy milk, So

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they need another they campaign because I
would be curious to see the numbers.

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Yeah, but like our kids refused
to drink cow's milk. Yeah. Dylan

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Ward joined Joe and Victor about two
years into their relationship. He had a

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master's degree in children's literature. He
began a small publishing house and published and

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wrote several of his own books,
Naughty Jack, Silly Sally, The Loneliest

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Tree in the World, and Forget
Me Not. Dylan also had a culinary

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arts degree. He was working as
a messuse in two thousand and six.

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The men were part of a polyamorous
relationship, but Dylan was kind of the

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third wheel. Are you following?
I think I am. Yeah. You

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threw me for a little bit of
a loop there when you said that Dylan

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joined the relationship. I wasn't sure
what you meant, but then you cleared

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it up with polyamorous relationship. So
we have Joe, who is Robert's college

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friend, and then he is I
don't think they were married, but he

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and Victor have been together for a
long time. And yeah, then Dylan

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comes into the picture and we're going
to go on from there. There was

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obvious tension among Victor and Dylan,
both vuying for Joe's attention, but it

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was Victor that shared a bedroom and
his life with Joe. Dylan was more

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of a free spirit, noncommittal in
life and love, but the three men

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were working on solidifying their commitment as
a family. They actually called themselves a

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family. Joe and Victor have two
sons together with a lesbian couple who live

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in Silver Spring, Maryland. Joe
was the donor for one son and Victor

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for the other. Joe and Robert
had been close friends since college. They

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got together three to four times a
year as their schedules allowed. Victor and

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Dylan were friendly with Robert, but
not as close. Joe and Victor hosted

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Robert's thirtieth birthday party in two thousand
and four at their house. Robert was

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heterosexual and very much in love with
his wife, Kathy, so Joe,

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Victor, and Dylan lived together at
fifteen oh nine Swan Street, a thirty

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one hundred square foot four bedroom,
four bath row house and the affluent DuPont

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Circle neighborhood in DC, about a
mile from the White House. Joe and

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Victor had purchased the house in April
two thousand and five for one point three

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million dollars. Beautiful house. Row
houses are continuous with their neighbor no space

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between them, and walls are shared. You can picture that, right.

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Oh yeah, Well, I've been
to DC many times and I yeah,

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there's a lot of those there.
It must be really fun when your neighbors

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are under construction. Yeah. Fifteen
oh nine Swan Street was impeccably clean and

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tastefully decorated. The small backyard was
surrounded by an eight foot fence with a

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gate that was always dead bolted.
The main floor consisted of a small entryway,

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a living room, dining room,
and a kitchen. Dylan's room,

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a bathroom, and a study with
a pullout sofa that doubled as a guest

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room were on the second floor.
Victor and Joe I was primary suite.

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A bedroom, bathroom, and study
took the entire third floor. There was

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an apartment in the basement that was
rented out to their friend Sarah, who

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was not home on the night of
August second. August second, two thousand

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and six was a hot, humid
day when Robert and Kathy won awoke in

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their townhouse in Oakton, Virginia.
They went to the gym for their morning

206
00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:24.879
workout before they took the train into
d C where they worked. They were

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00:15:24.919 --> 00:15:28.480
both busy, disciplined people who liked
to stick to a schedule. Robert gave

208
00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:33.279
Kathy a quick kiss and I love
you before partying at eight forty five am

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00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:37.840
at heading to their respective jobs.
Kathy had just started a new job at

210
00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:43.000
American Health Law Association in July,
and Robert two was settling into his new

211
00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:48.159
job at Radio Free Asia. He
had a continuing legal education class that would

212
00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:52.080
keep him in the city later than
usual. That night. Robert hadn't had

213
00:15:52.120 --> 00:15:56.679
an opportunity to meet the overnight radio
staff yet and planned on doing that since

214
00:15:56.720 --> 00:16:00.120
he would be in the city late. A couple of weeks earlier, he

215
00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:02.600
had reached out to two friends to
see if he could stay the night at

216
00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:06.360
either of their places so he wouldn't
have to take the late train back to

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00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:10.480
Oakden. First, he reached out
to a female friend. When she didn't

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00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:14.720
answer immediately, Robert reached out to
Joe Price. Joe assured Robert he was

219
00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:17.519
welcome to spend the night at his
place, which was only a few minutes

220
00:16:17.559 --> 00:16:21.799
away from his new office. After
his class an introduction to the overnight team

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00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:25.919
at Radio Free Asia, Robert was
tired from his long day. He called

222
00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:29.000
Kathy at nine thirty pm to wish
her a good night and say I love

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00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:32.759
you. Then he called Joe and
told him he'd be there soon. He

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00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:36.919
arrived at fifteen oh nine Swan Street
in a taxi at ten thirty pm.

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00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:40.679
This was the first time Robert had
ever spent the night at the row House.

226
00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:45.639
Victor had returned from a business trip
earlier that evening and was exhausted,

227
00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:48.480
so he retired to his room before
Robert's arrival. He planned to catch up

228
00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:52.120
with him over breakfast. In the
morning, Joe and Dylan greeted Robert and

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00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:56.279
chatted for fifteen to twenty minutes over
a glass of water before showing him to

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the spare bedroom slash office where he
would be staying. He said he was

231
00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:04.039
going to take a shower and go
to sleep. Joe and Victor were watching

232
00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:08.640
Project Runway in bed together. Victor
was feeling congested after his flight and took

233
00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:15.240
a pseudo fed along with a Unisom
sleeping pill. Project Runway ended at eleven

234
00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:18.279
PM, and Joe and Victor went
to sleep. Joe heard the doorchime and

235
00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:22.720
assumed it was either their tenant,
Sarah or Dylan, but Dylan had also

236
00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:26.720
taken a sleeping pill and was fast
asleep. Joe, Victor, and Dylan

237
00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:32.319
were oblivious to the reason uptick and
break ins around DuPont's Circle and were casual

238
00:17:32.359 --> 00:17:36.279
about setting their security system. It
was not set on the night of August

239
00:17:36.359 --> 00:17:41.640
second. Moments after hearing the doorchime, Joe and Victor heard sounds they described

240
00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:45.440
as guttural moans coming from the level
below. They rushed down the stairs and

241
00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:49.920
found Robert unconscious, lying on his
back, with a knife lying on his

242
00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:56.960
chest and what Joe described as a
lot of blood. Victor became hysterical,

243
00:17:56.119 --> 00:18:00.839
screaming and crying. Joe told him
to call nine one one while he tended

244
00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:06.119
to Robert. Joe later admitted that
he had moved the knife from Robert chess

245
00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:11.160
and placed it on the nightstand.
At eleven forty nine pm, Victor called

246
00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:14.680
nine one one and we're gonna play
the nine one one call, and it's

247
00:18:14.759 --> 00:18:18.200
I think it's seven eight minutes long, but I think it's important you hear

248
00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:22.160
the whole thing. All right,
Let's listen NBC Emergency NAM one operator six

249
00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:29.000
seven five two. Do you need
ponies, fire or amiens? Maybe manually?

250
00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:33.200
What's wrong? Man? Were just
we had someone name us in our

251
00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:37.920
house evidently, and they stabbed somebody. Okay, somebody's inaud the house now,

252
00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:41.680
I don't know. We've heard I'm
a bleeding, see someone bleeding.

253
00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:47.400
Someone is bleeding in our health Okay, where's they bleeding from? I think

254
00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:52.640
he's in the stomachs. May be
cautious. I'm down for man. I'm

255
00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:56.480
gonna sat him help, Okay,
female O male it's a male. He's

256
00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:00.839
a friend of ours who spent you're
spending the night with us. Okay,

257
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:04.000
who was the person that stabbed him? Do you know if he's conscious?

258
00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:07.599
We need going, ma'am. This
is tell me he's not conscious. He's

259
00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:12.640
not conscious at all. No,
we need where now? Is he breathing?

260
00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:15.880
Listen to me, calm down,
gonna help you? Okay? If

261
00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:22.400
he's breathing, I'm upstairs and he's
downstairs. I don't know. Okay,

262
00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:26.279
who's downstairs with him? My partner
is downstairs with him my house. He

263
00:19:26.359 --> 00:19:32.279
told me to go upstairs in the
politics immediately. Okay. Who's the person?

264
00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:34.200
Okay, I'm sending the paramids and
the police. Okay, who is

265
00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:38.079
the person that stabbed him? I
don't know. We think that's somebody will

266
00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:45.759
an intruder in the house. He
heard the time the door. There's fifteen

267
00:19:45.799 --> 00:19:48.960
A man. Calm down, fifteen
O nine Swine Street, northwest of my

268
00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:53.039
correct the person that says him,
he's still in the home. I don't

269
00:19:53.039 --> 00:20:11.960
know. We got help him,
rud, Okay, pardon me. We

270
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:15.839
have helped him, Ruth. From
here. They are they in route to

271
00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:19.400
you now. I'm seeing the police
and the paramedicsal case who assists. Okay,

272
00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:22.359
what I need you to do is
go downstairs, okay, the place

273
00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:25.799
where wherever he was saying that.
I need you to get a drink,

274
00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:29.920
law okay, and just apply pressure
to that area if he just wherever he

275
00:20:30.039 --> 00:20:32.319
was saying, back on his body. I need you to take a towel

276
00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:36.039
down stairs while you're waiting for the
paramedics to arrive, and just apply pressure.

277
00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:38.799
Even if the rag or tower is
saturated with blood, just get it

278
00:20:38.839 --> 00:20:42.279
another towel and put it on top. But never lifted the first towel off

279
00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:45.319
the area holding on him. Once
he gets sealed that we're bood, just

280
00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:49.079
put another towel on top of that
and just apply pressure into the paramedics,

281
00:20:49.240 --> 00:21:03.359
right yeah, yeah, and the
heart Okay, if he's breathing, we

282
00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:15.000
have help and right now okay,
you don't know who it was, don't

283
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:22.880
don't help Christmas. Okay, is
he breathing? Okay, we have help

284
00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:26.279
and roll now I'm okay, we
do have help and rout Okay, just

285
00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:29.960
go down there and try to tell
your husband or your other the other half

286
00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:33.319
to just try to keep them calm
and talk to him occain, keep them

287
00:21:33.319 --> 00:21:37.279
calm and talk to him cause someone
gets there, and at the same time,

288
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:38.960
get a dry cloth and just hold
it right there in the area.

289
00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:45.119
Okay, okay, and once it
gets saturated with blood till then get another

290
00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:47.599
one. Go get another town.
So you've been apply it on top of

291
00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:49.279
dollar. Once he gets healed oub
with blood, we need we need you

292
00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:53.279
to apply pressure on that area.
Okay, just hold it th intil the

293
00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:56.000
paramids get there. They should be
putting up any moment if they're already en

294
00:21:56.039 --> 00:22:00.079
roud to your location. You don't
know who did this, havenny y.

295
00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:06.640
It's a door open so they can
get in. We don't know how they

296
00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:08.599
got in. Okay, well I'm
asking you now. It's the door open

297
00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:15.720
so the paramedicine get in once they
get here. But sorry, what were

298
00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:19.119
you saying? It's the door open
so they can get in. It's a

299
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:23.799
door open so the so the paramedicine
get in the home. It's a private

300
00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:27.279
home, apartment, it's a home. It's a home at sixteen or nine

301
00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:33.400
Swan Street, north Wide. The
person had one of our lives, the

302
00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:36.240
person that stays the rain out the
door with the knife. I think.

303
00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:41.559
Okay, anybody get any type of
description of the person that came in home.

304
00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:48.119
We have no description. We heard
we heard the chime and we heard

305
00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:52.920
the scream from our farmis okay,
And so we came running downstairs, were

306
00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:56.359
running. So you both was upstairs
and your friend was downstairs. You heard

307
00:22:56.359 --> 00:23:00.079
the door open and then you heard
the scream. We didn't. I didn't

308
00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:04.440
hear the door open until after the
screen. And then we ran down the

309
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:07.920
chairs and we heard we are we
have an alarm until the time went off.

310
00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:14.079
Okay, is the induluence? We
really need the influence? Okay,

311
00:23:14.119 --> 00:23:17.039
saying row now, ma'am, go
to the door. They should be putting

312
00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:22.039
up any moment. Okay, I'm
afraid you're gonnaunderstand her the person who's down

313
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:23.880
sairs with the person that was sported. No, we're in the on the

314
00:23:23.920 --> 00:23:26.799
second floor. Okay, So somebody
need to go to says, opening the

315
00:23:26.839 --> 00:23:30.240
door for the pair of men.
You're not sure if that person is still

316
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:33.799
in a home in that have I
okay, we have paramedic and road Okay,

317
00:23:33.079 --> 00:23:36.799
what time is it? What time
is it at the moment? The

318
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:41.599
twenty three fifty four is eleven sixty
four? Man? Yes, I mean

319
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:44.240
I'll stand in line with you.
I will stay on the line, said

320
00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:45.799
somebody gets there. Time, won't
hang on. We need them right now.

321
00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:48.640
I'm not hanging up, but we
need we need help now. Okay,

322
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:56.960
they row, ma'am, they iron
row. Let me know when you

323
00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:00.400
hear the paramedic and you look out
the window and CVM coming. I'm looking

324
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:03.279
out the window and I see nothing. I see nobody. Okay it seemed

325
00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:07.960
like for Apple, but they iron
route. Man, they're coming here,

326
00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:18.759
they are here, they are They're
they're going downstairs. Okay, after in

327
00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:26.240
the line with you to you open, go for a paramedutes. Okay,

328
00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:34.400
help us. We don't want to
stop throwing our second floor. Uh huh

329
00:24:36.799 --> 00:25:00.920
yeah, man, that's really hurry. Man, it's gonna be okay.

330
00:25:04.039 --> 00:25:07.720
It's hard to listen to. I
failed to mention that the nine one one

331
00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:14.039
operator thought that Victor was a woman, and he never corrected her. Yeah,

332
00:25:14.119 --> 00:25:18.559
so what did you think? Boy? It just sounds like a hard

333
00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:22.599
situation, just terrifying. Like if
you're Victor and you don't know if the

334
00:25:22.599 --> 00:25:26.160
person who stabbed Robert is still in
the house, that's like, do you

335
00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:30.960
think his reaction was real? Oh
gosh, yeah, yeah, it did

336
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:34.519
not detect any kind of acting or
anything on that now, just to clarify

337
00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:38.119
for my own benefit, So was
Robert on the first floor or the second

338
00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:42.119
floor where he was sleeping. There
are three floors, there's a basement and

339
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:45.519
then there's three floors, right,
So Robert was on the second floor,

340
00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:49.920
okay. And Victor and Joe their
bedroom was all the third floor. Okay.

341
00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:53.400
And Dylan's bedroom was also on the
second floor, second floor. Okay,

342
00:25:53.880 --> 00:26:00.640
good question. Two AMTS, Jeff
Baker and Tracy Weaver arrived within five

343
00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:06.119
minutes, and I just wanted to
say, I just am so grateful and

344
00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:11.000
amazed that EMTs and nine one up
operators exist and do such a fabulous job

345
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:15.960
keeping people, protecting people and getting
people medical treatment. It's just amazing to

346
00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:18.240
me that they got there that fast. Yeah, within five minutes, and

347
00:26:18.279 --> 00:26:19.880
they're going into this house where they
don't they don't know if they don't know

348
00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:25.000
what they're going to say. They
first encountered Victor in a white robe,

349
00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:29.759
who simply muttered stabbing on the second
floor through his muffled sobs. They headed

350
00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:32.960
up the stairs, where they saw
Dylan wrapped in a bath towel. He

351
00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:36.240
looked at the EMTs didn't say a
word, pointed to the room Robert was

352
00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:40.839
in, then walked into his bedroom
and closed the door. Joe was sitting

353
00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:42.200
at the edge of the bed in
the guest room at the other end of

354
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:48.920
the hallway and only his underwear and
told Jeff I heard a scream. Robert

355
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:52.559
was lying on the nearly perfectly made
pull out sofa bed, lying on his

356
00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:56.240
back, with three precise stab wounds, two on his upper chest and one

357
00:26:56.279 --> 00:27:02.279
on his abdomen, almost surgical in
nature. He was wearing athletic shorts,

358
00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:06.799
a gray William and Mary t shirt
and underwear. The odd thing was there

359
00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:11.480
was very little blood on the bed
betting or Robert's body. The blue and

360
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:15.839
white striped betting wasn't rumpled, and
the devey was neatly folded at a forty

361
00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:21.279
five degree angle. Jeff said it
looked like Robert had been stabbed, then

362
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:25.960
showered and posed on the bed.
He noted a slight red hue to his

363
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:30.599
abdomen and a towel like texture to
his skin. Robert was unresponsive, without

364
00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:34.200
a pulse, pale and cold to
the touch. His pupils were fixed and

365
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:40.680
dilated. Both the mts later said
something felt off and even eerie about the

366
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:45.640
situation. Jeff Baker told investigators that
the scene caused the hairs on the back

367
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:49.200
of his neck to stand up.
Mind you, the EMTs were seasoned professionals.

368
00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:53.640
They'd seen a lot in their combined
twenty five years of experience, but

369
00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:57.279
they were still spooked by the scene. At fifteen oh nine Swan Street,

370
00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:03.119
the EMTs transferred Robert to the ambulance. His shorts and T shirt were cut

371
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:07.400
from his body and retained for evidence. Robert was intubated and chest compressions began.

372
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:15.079
Attempts at establishing an ivy line and
multiple locations failed. The ambulance arrived

373
00:28:15.079 --> 00:28:21.000
at George Washington University Hospital, where
doctors made more attempts to restart Robert's heart,

374
00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:23.880
but it was too late. He
could not be resuscitated. He was

375
00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:30.240
pronounced dead at twelve twenty four am
on August third. Joe Price called Robert's

376
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:33.559
wife, Kathy, awakening her at
twelve oh four am. Joe told her

377
00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:38.319
she needed to get to the hospital
as soon as possible. Kathy called Robert's

378
00:28:38.359 --> 00:28:42.119
parents and picked them up on the
way to the hospital. It is such

379
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:48.160
a heartbreaking, I know, poor
Kathy and she seems like the sweetest woman.

380
00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:52.799
Shortly after twelve am on August third, police arrived on the scene after

381
00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:56.440
Robert was taken away in an ambulance. The three roommates were all wearing spotless

382
00:28:56.440 --> 00:29:02.039
white robes and looked to have freshly
showered wet, which raised some eyebrows.

383
00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:07.680
They sat on the couch together while
the investigation ensued. Officers observed them whispering

384
00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:12.400
amongst themselves. Dylan began speaking,
breaking the heavy silence. Joe gave him

385
00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:18.079
a foreboding look, and he quieted. Joe became the spokesperson for the group.

386
00:29:18.519 --> 00:29:22.920
He told the detectives that they had
all gone to bed around ten forty

387
00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:25.759
five, and then some time later
he was awoken by the door. Time,

388
00:29:26.119 --> 00:29:30.720
he assumed it was the fourth roommate. The fourth roommate, that's the

389
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:33.400
one that lived in the basement.
Yes, Sarah, who lived in the

390
00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:36.160
base She wasn't there, right,
she was not there. That night,

391
00:29:36.680 --> 00:29:40.839
Joe started to fall back to sleep
when he and Victor heard a scream coming

392
00:29:40.839 --> 00:29:45.119
from Robert's room. Joe walked the
police around the house to demonstrate their actions

393
00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:48.200
that night. He noted that the
back door was unlocked and remained slightly ajar.

394
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:53.119
He volunteered that an intruder must have
come in and stabbed Robert. He

395
00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:59.240
mentioned a homeless man frequented the alley
and he may have come into the house.

396
00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:02.880
There was no evidence an intruder had
entered the home. There was no

397
00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:06.440
forced entry, no items were missing, and the house was perfectly clean.

398
00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:11.079
Joe had made a critical error during
the initial questioning. Police officer Diane Durham

399
00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:15.000
arrived on the scene, Joe,
then only wearing underwear, told her a

400
00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:21.319
different story than the one that he
would later tell. Diane said quote,

401
00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:26.519
he said they heard someone scream and
ran downstairs to see underwear. Guy said

402
00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:30.160
the victim was that the patio door
bleeding. They opened the door, took

403
00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:33.680
him upstairs and laid him on the
bed, and then she told him to

404
00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:37.799
go put some clothes on. Don't
blame her. So their story is that

405
00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:42.279
they found Robert in the bed.
Yeah. Then he had told Diane,

406
00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:45.240
Oh, no, he was,
he was by the Yeah, that's strange.

407
00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:48.160
Yeah, it was very strange.
At twelve thirty am, all three

408
00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:56.119
men were transported separately to the Metropolitan
Police Department's Violent Crimes Brand or VCB to

409
00:30:56.279 --> 00:31:00.920
continue the interview while investigators stayed behind
and searched the house. They were taken

410
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:04.720
into three separate rooms and the interviews
were taped. The police were hyper focused

411
00:31:04.759 --> 00:31:10.119
on Robert's sexuality and didn't understand why
he would spend the night in a house

412
00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:14.559
with three gay men. Well,
the back door wasn't wide open, the

413
00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:18.519
gate wasn't open. No one jumped
the fence, Nobody landed in the dirt.

414
00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:23.079
There's the dirt is not disturbed in
any way around the fence where you

415
00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:27.079
would have to stand to climb over
the fence. Nobody climbed over the fence

416
00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:30.720
either direction. They didn't go out
that way. I don't know how it's

417
00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:33.839
what you would see with the dirt. But oh I don't know. I

418
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:37.359
do know, and I've been on
many and many a see. Okay,

419
00:31:37.799 --> 00:31:41.960
I don't know, I honestly.
But what I do know, without a

420
00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:47.559
shadow of a doubt, is that
neither Dylan or or you don't do anything.

421
00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:52.960
I do know that I know that
what on earth, what a reason

422
00:31:52.039 --> 00:31:56.599
on God's queen Earth would they have
to do this? But you know it's

423
00:31:56.720 --> 00:32:00.000
not even possible. They couldn't,
even like Joe, I have a problem

424
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:05.519
because the whole time I sit here
and talk with you, I have yet

425
00:32:05.559 --> 00:32:08.960
to hear you say you wouldn't do
it. I'm getting okay, you know

426
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:12.440
what, because that's I don't even
need to say I wouldn't do it.

427
00:32:12.440 --> 00:32:15.920
It's impossible because this is one of
my oldest friends. I mean, this

428
00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:20.160
guy. I went to Joe,
Joe, you guys can't Joe, if

429
00:32:20.200 --> 00:32:23.559
if if if, if I didn't
do it, and all these guys are

430
00:32:23.599 --> 00:32:28.400
my friend. I'm not going to
say. I'm not going to say,

431
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:30.000
Joe, if somebody else didn't do
it, I'm going to say, we

432
00:32:30.039 --> 00:32:34.200
ain't do it. That's the way
I'm going to respond. I'm going to

433
00:32:34.200 --> 00:32:36.960
say we didn't. I'm taking it
for granted that you guys don't think I

434
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:39.200
did it. But you know,
obviously I'm an idiot. Okay, maybe

435
00:32:39.559 --> 00:32:44.279
you know I'm a I'm a suspect
too, But you know why, this

436
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:47.160
is one of my oldest friends.
What on what on earth would possess me

437
00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:50.920
to do such a thing, never
mind could I do it? It's it's

438
00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:53.519
crazy. The whole thing is crazy. Yeah, the guy ain't supposed to

439
00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:59.279
be staying over at your house tonight. That's crazy. That doesn't make any

440
00:32:59.319 --> 00:33:01.400
sense. But just ask his wife
if he was planning to. I can

441
00:33:01.400 --> 00:33:04.640
show you the emails right here.
Probably, I mean, I you know,

442
00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:09.960
I got my BlackBerry. This is
from my work account. Well,

443
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:17.799
maybe he's thinking about doing a little
experimentation. I don't you know if that

444
00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:22.759
were I would tell you, guys, would you? Because what? Because

445
00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:24.640
why not tell you? I mean, my god, I want you to

446
00:33:24.680 --> 00:33:30.319
find who did this. Suppose you
would, I'll give you one right,

447
00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:34.440
And you know it. You're making
me say it. You know what?

448
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:37.680
The reason? I don't know it. I got three homosexuals in a house

449
00:33:38.079 --> 00:33:42.759
and I got one straight guy.
What's he doing over there? What is

450
00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:46.119
there? I think we're all drinking
wine. You know what's going to happen

451
00:33:46.160 --> 00:33:52.240
tonight. You're coming to Jesus tonight. That's what's going on. That's fascinating

452
00:33:52.279 --> 00:33:57.079
and insulting. And here, that's
why you're made me say it. But

453
00:33:57.240 --> 00:34:00.039
you know what, that's not what
happened. You ever happily married? I

454
00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:05.680
do know that. But Joe is
not happily married, is he? Yeah?

455
00:34:05.720 --> 00:34:07.519
He is? To you? Yes? Yeah, okay, yeah,

456
00:34:07.760 --> 00:34:16.039
that's why you're upstairs with Victory.
He's downstairs with Robert Robert. Yeah,

457
00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:21.480
so it's impossible. I was just
say that a straight man to be friends

458
00:34:21.480 --> 00:34:25.239
with me. Yeah, I can
understand them being a little the polyamorous thing

459
00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:30.199
with the three guys that I can
understand. The police are probably not familiar

460
00:34:30.199 --> 00:34:32.840
with that. It's probably a you
know, they probably have a hard time

461
00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:37.400
understanding that. But and it was
fifteen years ago. Yeah, so I

462
00:34:37.639 --> 00:34:42.119
I will give them a little a
little bit of credit for they're not credit

463
00:34:42.159 --> 00:34:45.079
but grace for that. But yeah, can I ask you, though,

464
00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:50.920
did was any evidence found by the
patio door, like was their blood there

465
00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:55.400
the place that he told the officer
that that he was stabbed at? Or

466
00:34:55.559 --> 00:35:00.920
no? Okay, It was noted
that Joe was arrogant and loquacious while Dylan

467
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:06.360
and Victor were quiet and subdued.
Because Joe and Victor were partners. I

468
00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:08.440
mean, they were all partners,
but you know the longest term relationship with

469
00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:13.639
Joe and Victor. The investigators honed
in on Dylan, assuming that he would

470
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:16.599
be the most likely to spill the
truth. He was given a polygraph test

471
00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:21.480
and he was only asked two questions, did you kill Robert? Do you

472
00:35:21.559 --> 00:35:24.440
know who killed Robert? And he
failed. As the night wore on,

473
00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:29.119
Joe changed his story and admitted that
he had actually pulled the knife out of

474
00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:34.039
Robert's chest, and the three men
were there. They were kept there for

475
00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:38.840
hours, well until after dawn.
Here's another quick clip of Victor's interrogation.

476
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:45.719
You may have been told by your
friends this is not gonna work. We

477
00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:50.079
haven't talked at all, Victor.
I swear we have not talked at all.

478
00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:53.039
The only conversation we had was in
front of police officers. Rouginis or

479
00:35:53.159 --> 00:35:58.639
friend the chair usin Yes, No, it's not no, it's not.

480
00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:01.800
Yes that you have talked. You
have talked. He talked to Joe,

481
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:07.159
and he talked to Dylan, and
one or both of them are talking to

482
00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:09.760
us. Now. You wanna be
the only one left out there? Yes,

483
00:36:09.800 --> 00:36:13.159
I wanna be the only one that
left left out there if that's the

484
00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:16.239
case, because I am telling you
one hundred percent the honest truth. That

485
00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:20.559
is not the truth. It is
not the truth. That man was dead

486
00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:24.400
for a while. It's impossible.
It's impossible. It's not impossible. It's

487
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:35.599
a medical certainty. Yes, yes, think about your story. A person

488
00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:43.199
breaking in. Nobody's gonna believe that
somebody breaks into your house, goes into

489
00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:45.880
that particular room to kill Robert.
You don't even though he was there.

490
00:36:49.360 --> 00:36:53.480
You cannot go to jail. I'm
telling you from experience as many years as

491
00:36:53.480 --> 00:36:59.199
a police officer, you will not
last in DC jail. Those boys will

492
00:36:59.239 --> 00:37:02.000
eat you alive. That is not
a place that you want to go.

493
00:37:04.360 --> 00:37:07.440
And you don't want to go.
They're covering some bullshit. U I'm not

494
00:37:07.480 --> 00:37:10.199
covering anything up. You need to
tell the truth. I am. Things

495
00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:20.639
can be worked out. People understand
there's different levels of homicide. I honest,

496
00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:23.880
honestly, I am telling you exactly. The fact that I know you're

497
00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:28.679
not. Yes, I can,
No, you're not. That clip just

498
00:37:28.719 --> 00:37:30.920
makes me laugh a little bit because
it's like, no, you're not,

499
00:37:30.039 --> 00:37:35.119
Yes you are, No, you're
It's just obviously that police officer is a

500
00:37:35.199 --> 00:37:37.840
parent, because that sounds like so
many interrogations I've had with you. Yes,

501
00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:42.360
yeah, but it doesn't Victor.
I mean, Victor seems very sincere,

502
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:45.960
like both on the nine on non
call and in that interrogation. I

503
00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:49.719
do not, just based on hearing
his voice, I do not believe he

504
00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:52.760
is lying. I mean, of
course we're gonna discuss this at the end,

505
00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:54.679
so I'm not gonna say too much
else. At this point, Victor

506
00:37:54.840 --> 00:37:59.880
was exhausted from the adrenaline wearing off, the sleeping pill and his earlier flight.

507
00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:02.639
At one point, he asked for
an attorney and said he was done

508
00:38:02.679 --> 00:38:07.079
answering questions. The detective agreed to
let him go, left the room,

509
00:38:07.239 --> 00:38:12.800
said I'll be right back. He
returned and then began questioning him again.

510
00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:15.400
He kind of played a dirty trick
on him. He was just like,

511
00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:19.159
I'm just gonna go to check in
with Joe real quick. I'll be right

512
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:21.920
back. And then he comes in
the room and he was like, let

513
00:38:21.960 --> 00:38:23.880
me get what was your full name
again? And what was your birthday?

514
00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:28.480
And then he just starts questioning him
again, and the Victor was too nice

515
00:38:28.519 --> 00:38:34.119
to say, I want my lawyer
again. And meanwhile, back at the

516
00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:37.559
townhouse, the crime scene was thoroughly
scoured. Several items were taken into possession.

517
00:38:38.039 --> 00:38:42.840
The sheets on the pullout sofa bed
had two blood stains, not small

518
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:46.039
in nature, and I'm being generous
here by calling them about the size of

519
00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:50.719
a dinner plate. So there was
just two bloodstains. That's it, okay,

520
00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:53.719
But considering a man had been stabbed, and murdered in the bed.

521
00:38:53.800 --> 00:38:58.599
There was very little blood. A
large white towel was found on the floor.

522
00:38:58.599 --> 00:39:01.199
I remember the nine one one and
she was like, apply pressure to

523
00:39:01.239 --> 00:39:06.440
the wound, and you know,
you would expect a fair amount of blood,

524
00:39:06.559 --> 00:39:08.599
and I'll post a picture. There's
not many. Frustrating, but there's

525
00:39:08.599 --> 00:39:13.639
not many crime scene photos. I
wish I could see a picture of Robert's

526
00:39:13.639 --> 00:39:15.880
T shirt, but I don't have
that. But we do have a picture

527
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:21.639
of the towel and it doesn't look
like you know, life, there's not

528
00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:24.119
a ton of blood on them.
Yeah. Again, considering the fatal nature

529
00:39:24.119 --> 00:39:28.519
of the crime, the spots were
small, and that was the most baffling

530
00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:32.360
aspect to the investigation. Where was
the blood. There were no blood spatters

531
00:39:32.440 --> 00:39:36.480
or drips anywhere in the room or
elsewhere in the house for that matter.

532
00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:40.239
The exterior of the house was searched
for evidence of an intruder and none was

533
00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:45.679
found. Drains both inside and outside
the house were searched for evidence of DNA,

534
00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:51.199
but again none was found. There
was a layer of pollen along the

535
00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:54.559
top of the fence that remained undisturbed, as well as cobwebs, so police

536
00:39:54.599 --> 00:40:00.639
were certain early on that no one
had entered the house. Plants along the

537
00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:05.639
fence line didn't seem trampled at all, and the hose on the back patio

538
00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:08.840
was unrolled and looked as if it
had recently been used, which raised some

539
00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:14.280
eyebrows because nothing else in the house
was out of place, so they just

540
00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:15.840
seemed like the type of people like, I'm going to coil this hose back

541
00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:20.840
cup after I use it. A
knife sat on the nightstand next to the

542
00:40:20.840 --> 00:40:22.960
bed. There was blood on the
sides of the knife, but none on

543
00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:29.320
the handle. In the kitchen there
was a knife block with a missing knife.

544
00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:32.400
Robert's clothes were neatly folded on the
desk, along with his two wallets,

545
00:40:32.840 --> 00:40:37.920
Nevada watch, and BlackBerry. He
kept a dummy wallet in his pocket

546
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:42.239
in case he was mugged. That's
pretty smart. Robert was a very slight

547
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:45.079
man. He was only I think
he was five feet four inches. His

548
00:40:45.159 --> 00:40:50.400
cell phone was on the nightstand.
The betting looked too perfect. The covers

549
00:40:50.440 --> 00:40:54.639
were barely rumpled and neatly folded back. The investigators found no evidence of an

550
00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:59.760
intruder. Nothing was out of place, knocked over or broken, and Dylan's

551
00:40:59.840 --> 00:41:04.360
room okay, this is where it
gets a little gnarly. In Dylan's room,

552
00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:08.159
hundreds of sex toys and BDSM devices
were found. The detective called it

553
00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:14.079
an extensive collection of shackles, whips, chains, all kinds of restraints,

554
00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:20.440
a device that looked like a gas
mask, torture devices. An electro ejaculation

555
00:41:20.679 --> 00:41:24.320
machine was found, which is used
in people with spinal cord injuries or other

556
00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:30.320
medical conditions when the person can't ejaculate
on their own. Dylan owned several books

557
00:41:30.320 --> 00:41:37.280
about inflicting pain for pleasure. Among
the sexual detritus found in Dylan's room was

558
00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:42.039
a boxed three piece set of Wustoff
knives, a chef's knife, a meat

559
00:41:42.079 --> 00:41:45.519
fork, and a shorter utility knife. The utility knife was missing from the

560
00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:52.199
set and was never found. Drug
sniffing dogs were brought in and they only

561
00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:57.519
found a few tablets of ecstasy,
but the dog's alerted on two separate locations

562
00:41:57.519 --> 00:42:01.079
in the house. A search warrant
was issued for the electronic devices of the

563
00:42:01.119 --> 00:42:07.039
three men. Thousands of graphic,
sexual and pornographic images were found many of

564
00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:12.880
the three men. The images revealed
a shift and the power dynamic among the

565
00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:16.719
men in their careers. Joe was
clearly the most aggressive and successful, but

566
00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:21.760
in sexual matters, Dylan was the
dominant one. Joe and Dylan were in

567
00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:25.519
a dominant submissive sexual relationship. They
were working on getting Victor to be more

568
00:42:25.559 --> 00:42:31.079
comfortable and join them. Joe was
also found to have an active kink life

569
00:42:31.159 --> 00:42:36.599
online that I am not going to
go into. So one thing that I

570
00:42:36.639 --> 00:42:44.199
read online was that Joe and Dylan
were kind of always looking for another partner,

571
00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:46.800
and I assumed that Victor was okay
with that. He didn't love it,

572
00:42:46.840 --> 00:42:52.880
but he just knew that that was
something that they needed to fulfill.

573
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:57.280
Joe, Victor, and Dylan cooperated
with the investigation and gave fingerprint and DNA

574
00:42:57.400 --> 00:43:00.519
samples, and they all hired attorneys, lot of attorneys in this story.

575
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:07.280
Law enforcement thoroughly investigated the house for
three weeks. None of the four roommates

576
00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:10.639
ever slept in the house again.
Two hundred eighty samples were taken from the

577
00:43:10.679 --> 00:43:15.639
house, sections of walls, the
staircase, and carpet, yet no usable

578
00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:21.280
blood evidence was found. The damage
that the police did to the house was

579
00:43:21.400 --> 00:43:25.000
estimated at two hundred and fifty thousand
dollars. Oh wow, And I am

580
00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:29.199
guessing that police do not cover that. I don't know a good question.

581
00:43:29.320 --> 00:43:34.039
I don't think they do. Like
you, probably not, I think we

582
00:43:34.039 --> 00:43:44.119
should. This is probably a good
place to take a quick break. Okay.

583
00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:47.320
So the police collected all the samples
from the house, no blood evidence.

584
00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:52.599
That's weird. That's so weird.
There's a We're going to get to

585
00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:58.280
some bad police work in a minute, okay. In the days after Robert's

586
00:43:58.280 --> 00:44:02.159
death, family and friends surrounded with
love and support and her and Robert's Oakton

587
00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:07.239
townhouse and helped her with funeral arrangements. Joe, Victor and Dylan even paid

588
00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:13.440
a visit. Robert's funeral was held
on August eighth and was heavily attended.

589
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:20.119
Twelve friends gave eulogies, and Joe
prin Price was a pallbearer. Doctor Lois

590
00:44:20.159 --> 00:44:24.079
Goslinowski conducted the autopsy. She was
very experienced, having conducted over two thousand

591
00:44:24.079 --> 00:44:30.719
autopsies. She noted three slit like
cuts, two on the upper chest torso

592
00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:35.840
area, piercing the right lung,
heart, aorta, and pericardium, and

593
00:44:35.920 --> 00:44:39.159
one in the abdomen. The wounds
were between four and four and a half

594
00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:45.159
inches deep and less than an inch
long. The precision of the stab wounds

595
00:44:45.159 --> 00:44:50.480
made it likely that Robert was very
still immobilized or even paralyzed during the attack.

596
00:44:51.159 --> 00:44:54.079
The cuts were nearly identical in depth, with an orientation, and all

597
00:44:54.119 --> 00:44:59.639
at a slight diagonal left to right. Robert had no defensive wounds on his

598
00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:04.639
hand or anywhere on his body.
His cause of death was the stab to

599
00:45:04.760 --> 00:45:07.960
his heart, and the manner of
death was homicide. Blood had leaked into

600
00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:14.320
his small intestine, indicating that Robert
had not died immediately. There was hemorrhaging

601
00:45:14.440 --> 00:45:19.559
in his left eye, indicated that
he may have been smothered. He was

602
00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:22.039
likely alive for about a minute after
the stabbing. There was no evidence of

603
00:45:22.119 --> 00:45:27.559
him being restrained, and there were
no skin abrasions. Was he drugged.

604
00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:31.679
There were several needle puncture marks on
his hands, chest, feet, neck,

605
00:45:31.840 --> 00:45:37.320
and interior elbow, but it's not
clear if these were from the attempts

606
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:42.639
to establish the IV. Robert wore
a mouthguard at night to prevent him from

607
00:45:42.679 --> 00:45:45.960
grinding his teeth, and the mouth
guard was in his mouth at the time

608
00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:50.320
of his death. Cathy said that
inserting it was always the last thing he

609
00:45:50.360 --> 00:45:53.360
did before he went to sleep and
to me. That was a big piece

610
00:45:53.360 --> 00:45:57.400
of evidence, because you're not going
to put a mouth guard in if you're

611
00:45:57.440 --> 00:46:02.079
expecting some sort of sexual encounter.
Yeah, law enforcement requested a rape kippie

612
00:46:02.079 --> 00:46:07.000
performed on Robert after the BDSM items
were found in Dylan's room. Semen was

613
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:13.719
found around his penis and inside his
rectum. The DNA test revealed the semen

614
00:46:13.800 --> 00:46:21.760
belonged to Robert. Doctor Goslinowski estimated
that two thirds of Robert's blood had bled

615
00:46:21.800 --> 00:46:25.800
out of his body. Where is
where is the blood? The toxicology report

616
00:46:25.880 --> 00:46:30.719
came back completely clean for drugs and
alcohol. But there are drugs that can

617
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:36.920
render a person immovable, that are
undetectable in an autopsy, that quickly break

618
00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:43.000
down into organic compounds. Where would
where would someone get a drug drugs like

619
00:46:43.039 --> 00:46:46.920
that? Though it just seems crazy, I have one idea that I'll tell

620
00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:52.519
you in a little bit. Kathy
One is a private, quiet, reserved

621
00:46:52.599 --> 00:46:55.800
person. She was devastated by Robert's
death. In the beginning, she went

622
00:46:55.840 --> 00:47:00.559
along with the intruder theory, but
as time past, she really that it

623
00:47:00.800 --> 00:47:04.840
just wasn't plausible. She was unable
to leave her bed for five weeks.

624
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:09.000
She suffered from Bell's palsy and lupus, and from painful swelling and stiffening of

625
00:47:09.039 --> 00:47:14.599
her joints. She required a cane
to walk her. Doctors told her the

626
00:47:14.599 --> 00:47:19.519
internalization of grief was affecting her health. She struggled with the lack of answers

627
00:47:19.559 --> 00:47:23.360
and implored law enforcement to quicken the
pace of their investigation. Kathy told The

628
00:47:23.480 --> 00:47:28.920
Washington Post in an email, quote, it hurts me a great deal to

629
00:47:28.920 --> 00:47:32.280
think that whoever took Robert's life is
probably going on with life as usual while

630
00:47:32.320 --> 00:47:37.360
I'm struggling to close an enormous,
gaping wound and move on. I can't

631
00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:42.800
help but shake my head at the
picture of incredible unfairness. I mean,

632
00:47:43.039 --> 00:47:47.280
it is so unfair. After Robert's
death, she struggled for years with grief

633
00:47:47.400 --> 00:47:52.440
and oppression. She attended counseling,
but was only able to work part time.

634
00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:55.840
Kathy was unable to return to the
townhouse she shared with Robert and stayed

635
00:47:55.840 --> 00:48:00.880
with friends for the next seven months. Unpaid bills mounted, but she didn't

636
00:48:00.920 --> 00:48:05.199
care whether the bank foreclosed, she
said, quote. My accomplishment of the

637
00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:07.599
day was getting out of bed,
taking a shower, and making it to

638
00:48:07.599 --> 00:48:13.239
the breakfast table. The mere act
of existing was almost unbearable. I was

639
00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:16.559
convinced I would never know happiness again. And that's tough. I know,

640
00:48:17.559 --> 00:48:21.760
she's such a sweet lady. Eventually, she moved back to her home in

641
00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:25.599
Oakden and adopted as she but you
knew, named Buddy. My dogs make

642
00:48:25.639 --> 00:48:31.199
everything better. Yeah. Kathy was
frustrated by law enforcement's inability to charge anyone

643
00:48:31.239 --> 00:48:37.039
with her husband's murder. In twenty
ten, Kathy told The Washington Post Henry

644
00:48:37.119 --> 00:48:40.679
Jaffy, I just I loved being
his wife. On the night of August

645
00:48:40.760 --> 00:48:45.800
second, a neighbor recalled hearing a
scream sometime while they were watching the late

646
00:48:45.880 --> 00:48:51.719
news between eleven and eleven thirty.
A nine one one call didn't happen until

647
00:48:51.840 --> 00:48:57.760
eleven forty nine. Two emails were
found on Robert's phone in his draft file

648
00:48:58.239 --> 00:49:05.360
from eleven oh eight that leaves forty
one mysterious minutes. Two weeks after Robert's

649
00:49:05.440 --> 00:49:09.000
murder, cadaver dogs were brought into
the house. Investigators didn't believe Robert had

650
00:49:09.039 --> 00:49:13.719
died in the bedroom because there was
no till there was little to no blood

651
00:49:13.760 --> 00:49:16.239
evidence. The dogs were brought in
to see if Robert could have been killed

652
00:49:16.239 --> 00:49:21.440
in a different area of the house. They alerted on two spots, the

653
00:49:21.519 --> 00:49:27.559
lint trap of the dryer and a
drain on the patio. Ashley's reagent was

654
00:49:27.639 --> 00:49:30.639
used in the house. Ashley's reagent
is used to find blood that has been

655
00:49:30.679 --> 00:49:37.119
cleaned up. Detectives were over zealous
and applied the reagent everywhere, sure they

656
00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:40.719
were going to find blood. However, they failed to follow the directions for

657
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:46.119
the chemicals application. It was applied
to vertical services, which causes the reagent

658
00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:52.599
to drip and obscure blood stains.
Any blood evidence was thrown out. To

659
00:49:52.679 --> 00:49:57.159
make matters worse, Ashley's reagent stained
every surface on the house that it was

660
00:49:57.159 --> 00:50:05.280
sprayed on. Oh boy, was
like I think despite misusing Ashley's free agent,

661
00:50:05.400 --> 00:50:07.159
there was some blood. I think
it was a very little book.

662
00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:12.880
They did find some they you know, they had to throw it out.

663
00:50:14.559 --> 00:50:17.199
The supposed murder weapon was a steak
knife that came out of the knife block

664
00:50:17.239 --> 00:50:21.119
that was on the kitchen counter.
It was five and a half inches long.

665
00:50:21.519 --> 00:50:25.239
Here's a little clip talking about it. Say your DNA is the only

666
00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:30.159
DNA is on that? Okay,
who would you do that? I mean,

667
00:50:30.360 --> 00:50:34.760
who would you think I don't know. I don't know how the whole

668
00:50:34.800 --> 00:50:37.079
DNA thing works. But it's a
kitchen knife, firehouse, you know,

669
00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:40.519
I use it, uses it,
right, But you're saying that somebody else

670
00:50:40.519 --> 00:50:45.039
would use it. Someone that person
DNA would be on a knife, because

671
00:50:45.079 --> 00:50:50.719
when you hold it that knife like
this and you're going down there's somebody's chest,

672
00:50:51.639 --> 00:50:55.719
you're applying more pressure, more skin
sale, or you were going to

673
00:50:55.760 --> 00:50:59.559
find somebody else's DNA. So if
you want to find some okay, good

674
00:50:59.719 --> 00:51:01.519
you will. So unless they're wearing
a glove. So what happens if I

675
00:51:01.559 --> 00:51:08.119
find just your DNA on that night? It's not possible because unless the person

676
00:51:08.119 --> 00:51:13.440
had a glove on it, and
you know better what to ask, I'm

677
00:51:13.480 --> 00:51:17.559
asking you what happened if I just
find your DNA on a night I don't

678
00:51:17.559 --> 00:51:23.159
know. If it's possible for my
DNA to get on it for me picking

679
00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:27.960
it up, then you can find
my DNA on it, right, So

680
00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:31.760
therefore, if because it is kind
of impossible for it to be on it

681
00:51:31.840 --> 00:51:35.119
if you just picking it up,
Okay, So if I find you,

682
00:51:35.239 --> 00:51:38.119
if I find your DNA on it
and your DNA is all over that night,

683
00:51:40.159 --> 00:51:44.000
but it's not if you can't get
it on there from just picking up

684
00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:47.360
the knife, then you won't find
it. That was Joe by the way.

685
00:51:47.480 --> 00:51:52.719
Okay, So the knife was sent
to a lab for analysis and no

686
00:51:52.920 --> 00:51:55.960
DNA belonging to anyone in the house
was found, which I thought was kind

687
00:51:55.960 --> 00:52:00.400
of interesting. So why was the
cop so focused on that? Well,

688
00:52:00.440 --> 00:52:02.880
that was the initial knight of the
interrogation, so they didn't know what was

689
00:52:02.920 --> 00:52:08.159
going to come out of the lab. White fibers, along with Robert's chest

690
00:52:08.199 --> 00:52:13.119
hairs, clung to the knife.
The white fibers were consistent with the towel

691
00:52:13.119 --> 00:52:17.679
that was found in the bedroom.
There was one fat globule adhering to the

692
00:52:17.719 --> 00:52:22.360
knife. A slight impression from the
towel was found on the knife, as

693
00:52:22.360 --> 00:52:28.039
if someone had pressed the bloody towel
to the knife, like transferring blood to

694
00:52:28.079 --> 00:52:31.599
the knife, so the knife looked
like it had been used. Robert was

695
00:52:31.639 --> 00:52:35.320
wearing a gray William and Mary t
shirt at the time of his death,

696
00:52:35.360 --> 00:52:38.239
and there were three cuts in the
shirt from the stabbing, but no gray

697
00:52:38.280 --> 00:52:43.159
fibers were found on the knife.
Those findings, in addition to the depth

698
00:52:43.199 --> 00:52:46.039
of the stab wounds, called into
question whether the knife in the bedroom was

699
00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:52.599
the actual murder weapon and brought investigators
back to the missing knife from Dylan's room,

700
00:52:52.679 --> 00:52:59.239
But where did it go? Every
investigation has a few bumps, but

701
00:52:59.320 --> 00:53:04.239
the investigation into Robert's death had a
few critical errors that likely prevented justice.

702
00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:09.599
Robert's BlackBerry was lost. The District
of Columbia Metropolitan Police Department had handed over

703
00:53:09.639 --> 00:53:15.719
the BlackBerry to secret Service to be
imaged, and it was returned to Radio

704
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:20.760
Free Asia erased. The two drafted
emails from the night of August second were

705
00:53:20.840 --> 00:53:25.519
lost, which could have helped better
establish the timeline. One email was to

706
00:53:25.599 --> 00:53:29.559
Kathy and the other was to a
friend that Robert was planning to have lunch

707
00:53:29.559 --> 00:53:32.320
with the next day, but we
don't know the contents of those emails.

708
00:53:32.679 --> 00:53:38.000
Several hours of the suspects interrogations were
also lost. Critical drug tests were not

709
00:53:38.039 --> 00:53:44.400
done on Robert's blood, and now
not enough blood remains to do any more

710
00:53:44.480 --> 00:53:49.400
testing. There's only three cubic centimeters
left, and I'm guessing they're keeping that

711
00:53:50.519 --> 00:53:54.079
in case they needed for any new
evidence they might pop up. The dryer

712
00:53:54.119 --> 00:54:00.599
where this scent dog had alerted wasn't
investigated further. I just want to remind

713
00:54:00.639 --> 00:54:04.880
you of the timeline really quick.
So Robert arrived at the house at ten

714
00:54:04.960 --> 00:54:08.599
thirty and they just chatted briefly.
They went to bed at ten forty five.

715
00:54:09.239 --> 00:54:13.480
Robert. If the emails were sent
by Robert, that's kind of been

716
00:54:13.519 --> 00:54:16.519
in question as to whether someone else
could have sent them, as you know,

717
00:54:16.599 --> 00:54:22.119
sort of a alibi that Robert was
still awake. Those were sent at

718
00:54:22.119 --> 00:54:27.679
eleven oh eight. Victor called nine
to one one at eleven forty nine,

719
00:54:27.960 --> 00:54:32.039
So somebody sometime between eleven eight and
eleven forty nine was when Robert was stabbed.

720
00:54:32.920 --> 00:54:37.519
The neighbors heard the scream. They
couldn't pinpoint it anymore to oh,

721
00:54:37.599 --> 00:54:40.480
we heard it while we were watching
the news. It was somewhere between eleven

722
00:54:40.519 --> 00:54:46.000
and eleven thirty. The EMTs arrived
at eleven fifty five, and Robert was

723
00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:50.800
declared that at twelve twenty four.
And I should mention to the scream.

724
00:54:51.079 --> 00:54:53.800
If the neighbors heard the scream,
it could have been when Victor walked into

725
00:54:53.840 --> 00:54:57.519
the room, because, like Joe
said, he was just it sounds like

726
00:54:57.559 --> 00:55:02.400
he was hysterically screaming. Joe's younger
brother, Michael, was once a suspect.

727
00:55:02.679 --> 00:55:07.960
He was studying phlebotomy and had access
to a paralytic drug. And Michael

728
00:55:07.960 --> 00:55:12.639
had a history, a long history
of drug and alcohol abuse. Joe had

729
00:55:12.639 --> 00:55:17.119
defended him many times. Michael had
a key to Joe's house and knew his

730
00:55:17.159 --> 00:55:21.679
way around the house. The night
of the murder was the only night that

731
00:55:21.800 --> 00:55:25.159
Michael missed his class. However,
his phone didn't ping at fifteen oh nine

732
00:55:25.199 --> 00:55:30.440
Swan Street, and he had an
alibi, But those two things don't really

733
00:55:30.519 --> 00:55:32.960
mean It left his phone somewhere else, right, and his alibi was his

734
00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:38.360
partner, But he was never considered
a serious suspect. Two months after the

735
00:55:38.440 --> 00:55:43.239
murder, when the house was vacant, Michael was reported for burglarizing the house

736
00:55:43.280 --> 00:55:47.199
on Swan Street and stealing flat screen
TVs and other items of value. The

737
00:55:47.239 --> 00:55:52.280
stolen items were found at a local
pawn shop. Michael was never charged with

738
00:55:52.360 --> 00:55:55.559
any crime. However, Okay,
so a year has gone on and there's

739
00:55:55.599 --> 00:56:01.119
no no arrests, Like, that's
just maddening. Yeah, after a year

740
00:56:01.159 --> 00:56:06.559
without an arrest, Kathy One was
frustrated by the lack of movement in Robert's

741
00:56:06.559 --> 00:56:10.119
case. Robert's former law practice,
Covington and Berling, treated her like family.

742
00:56:10.719 --> 00:56:15.440
Eric Holder was the head of the
firm before becoming US Attorney General in

743
00:56:15.440 --> 00:56:20.880
two thousand and nine. He had
held Robert in the highest regard and personally

744
00:56:20.880 --> 00:56:23.719
saw to his case hold her and
Kathy. Held a press conference and he

745
00:56:23.760 --> 00:56:28.679
said, quote, for those in
fifteen oh nine Swan Street, where Robert

746
00:56:28.760 --> 00:56:32.360
was killed, you need to truly
ask yourselves. Truly, truly ask yourselves.

747
00:56:32.679 --> 00:56:37.320
Have I provided the police with all
the information that might be relevant to

748
00:56:37.360 --> 00:56:40.960
the investigation of this crime. Only
you, your conscience, and your God

749
00:56:42.039 --> 00:56:45.639
know the answer to that question.
But that is the question you must ask

750
00:56:45.679 --> 00:56:49.840
yourselves. If you care about Robert, if you truly care about this family,

751
00:56:50.119 --> 00:56:53.159
if you care about Kathy, come
forward and share all of the information

752
00:56:53.280 --> 00:56:59.800
you have end quote. And no
one came forward. Isn't that impressive though?

753
00:56:59.800 --> 00:57:05.760
That Eric Holder, Yeah, is
Kathy's attorney. It is more than

754
00:57:05.760 --> 00:57:08.800
two years after Robert's death, in
hopes he would turn on Joe and Victor,

755
00:57:08.920 --> 00:57:13.960
Dylan Ward was arrested in Florida.
He was held in custody for more

756
00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:17.599
than a month and never changed his
story. Joe and Victor were given an

757
00:57:17.599 --> 00:57:22.880
opportunity by prosecutors to cooperate. They
were told they'd be taken into custody if

758
00:57:22.920 --> 00:57:29.719
they didn't reveal what really happened.
On August second, neither man gave investigators

759
00:57:29.719 --> 00:57:32.639
what they were looking for, and
they were arrested. The trio were indicted

760
00:57:34.039 --> 00:57:39.760
with obstruction of justice conspiracy to obstruct
justice in tampering with evidence on November nineteenth,

761
00:57:39.880 --> 00:57:45.880
two thousand and eight, but there
were no murder charges. Was Dylan

762
00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:49.880
still with Joe and Victor at this
point, Yeah, there was still very

763
00:57:49.960 --> 00:57:53.639
much a family at that point.
The arrest affidavit rocked the friends and family

764
00:57:53.679 --> 00:57:58.679
of Robert Hard when they realized Joe, Dylan, and Victor were likely active

765
00:57:58.760 --> 00:58:05.000
participants in Robert's death, not survivors
of a murderous intruder. The affidavit claimed

766
00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:07.119
that Joe, Victor, and Dylan
tampered with a crime scene by replacing the

767
00:58:07.199 --> 00:58:10.719
murder weapon with the knife from the
knife block, and that they had cleaned

768
00:58:10.719 --> 00:58:15.960
blood from Robert and transferred blood onto
the planted knife. The affidavit also claimed

769
00:58:15.960 --> 00:58:21.639
they lied to law enforcement and suggested
that Robert Juan had been injected with a

770
00:58:21.679 --> 00:58:27.559
paralytic drug, sexually assaulted, smothered, and then stabbed. The affidavit completely

771
00:58:27.599 --> 00:58:31.360
dismissed the theory that Robert could have
been killed by an intruder. A week

772
00:58:31.440 --> 00:58:36.519
later, Kathy filed a twenty million
dollar civil lawsuit against Joe, Victor,

773
00:58:36.559 --> 00:58:40.800
and Dylan for the participation and the
wrongful death of Robert. The lawsuit alleges

774
00:58:40.920 --> 00:58:46.760
quote the evidence suggests that rather than
administering aid to Robert Juan or making a

775
00:58:46.880 --> 00:58:53.800
prompt report to authorities, the defendants
spent the crucial minutes after the stabbing coordinating

776
00:58:53.840 --> 00:59:00.360
their stories, altering and orchestrating the
crime scene, and destroying evidence. The

777
00:59:00.400 --> 00:59:05.639
defendants are parties to an ongoing conspiracy
that was conceived no later than the night

778
00:59:05.719 --> 00:59:09.440
of Robert Want's murder, went into
effect on that night and continues to this

779
00:59:09.639 --> 00:59:15.679
day. End to quote, they
all pleaded not guilty and hired high profile

780
00:59:15.760 --> 00:59:21.960
defense attorneys. Joe hired powerhouse attorney
Bernie Grimm. They were released on bail

781
00:59:22.039 --> 00:59:27.880
but required to wear inkle monitors.
Judge Lynn Leebowitz presided over the trial.

782
00:59:28.360 --> 00:59:34.840
She didn't allow Dylan's sex toys,
restraints or devices into evidence or the semen

783
00:59:34.880 --> 00:59:38.239
found on Robert, despite their being
clear evidence of Robert being sexually assaulted.

784
00:59:38.880 --> 00:59:44.960
The defendants requested a bench trial,
and they feared an impartial jury was impossible.

785
00:59:45.199 --> 00:59:47.719
The prosecution didn't contest it, which
they had a right to do.

786
00:59:49.360 --> 00:59:52.599
So can you believe that she didn't
let that evidence in? Why do you

787
00:59:52.639 --> 00:59:57.000
say there was clear evidence of Robert
being sexually assaulted though? Well, in

788
00:59:57.000 --> 01:00:01.119
my opinion, just the fact that
he had like how else did he have

789
01:00:01.239 --> 01:00:06.480
semen all over him? And that's
where that machine came into play. I

790
01:00:06.519 --> 01:00:10.480
believe, I believe there was some
sort of sexual encounter or assault I should

791
01:00:10.480 --> 01:00:15.800
say, not encounter, and that's
why he had his own semen all over

792
01:00:15.880 --> 01:00:19.079
him. Okay, Yeah, that
does seem strange that she didn't allow that

793
01:00:19.159 --> 01:00:22.559
into evidence. Yeah. The trial
began on May seventeenth and lasted until June

794
01:00:22.599 --> 01:00:27.159
twenty fifth, twenty ten. If
convicted, Joe, Victor and Dylan faced

795
01:00:27.199 --> 01:00:30.440
up to thirty eight years in prison. The prosecution called thirty witnesses and the

796
01:00:30.440 --> 01:00:37.320
defense only called eight witnesses. Doctor
Henry Lee, the much acclaimed forensic pathologist

797
01:00:37.320 --> 01:00:40.400
and often expert witness, testified that
the lack of blood at the scene was

798
01:00:40.480 --> 01:00:45.920
due to blood remaining inside Robert's body
cavity due to his lack of movement and

799
01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:52.159
the small size of the wounds.
He was testifying for the defense. Yes,

800
01:00:52.320 --> 01:00:55.559
yeah, I'm not buying it either. Doctor Lee incidentally has been recently

801
01:00:55.599 --> 01:01:00.960
accused of fabricating evidence in a nineteen
eighty five murdered that sent two man men

802
01:01:01.039 --> 01:01:06.079
to jail. I was gonna say, I seem to recall his star falling

803
01:01:06.159 --> 01:01:10.239
producing. Some people are kind of
questioning a lot of his work. He's

804
01:01:10.280 --> 01:01:15.559
eighty four now too, not that
an eighty four year old can't still be

805
01:01:15.639 --> 01:01:20.840
working. But Dylan's mother testified that
she had sent the wust Hof knife kit

806
01:01:20.920 --> 01:01:23.719
to Dylan as a gift, and
she kept the missing knife for herself.

807
01:01:24.880 --> 01:01:29.840
I'm gonna do that with her suspresience
this year. There's a gift for you.

808
01:01:29.960 --> 01:01:32.559
I'm having to take half of that. She kept the missing knife for

809
01:01:32.599 --> 01:01:37.920
herself, although she was not able
to reproduce the knife, The defense claimed.

810
01:01:37.960 --> 01:01:43.280
A neighbor reported the lid to their
child's sandbox was caved in the day

811
01:01:43.320 --> 01:01:49.840
after the murder, as if someone
used it to like catapult himself over the

812
01:01:50.039 --> 01:01:57.000
over the fence. Okay, but
on the other side of the fence is

813
01:01:57.159 --> 01:02:01.280
like a you would go down into
a steep brick staircase, so that didn't

814
01:02:01.320 --> 01:02:05.400
seem like it was. Yeah,
they were just trying to throw any kind

815
01:02:05.400 --> 01:02:08.599
of doubt that they could though exactly, and the three defendants did not testify.

816
01:02:09.800 --> 01:02:15.440
It took Judge Leibowitz an hour to
read her thirty eight page verdict,

817
01:02:15.559 --> 01:02:20.599
and I am going to read that
to you now. She made it clear

818
01:02:20.639 --> 01:02:23.639
that she strongly believed that it's better
for a guilty man to walk free rather

819
01:02:23.679 --> 01:02:28.079
than to have an innocent man go
to jail. She thought the men were

820
01:02:28.119 --> 01:02:31.800
responsible for Robert's death and were withholding
information, but she did not think the

821
01:02:31.840 --> 01:02:37.920
prosecution proved their case beyond a reasonable
doubt, and she found all three men

822
01:02:38.079 --> 01:02:44.840
not guilty, which interesting, really
frustrating. And she also said that she

823
01:02:44.960 --> 01:02:47.599
did not buy the knife evidence.
Actually, she thought the knife from the

824
01:02:47.639 --> 01:02:52.960
kitchen was the actual murder weapon because
of the fat globule on it, which

825
01:02:53.000 --> 01:02:57.599
I did question that too. Yeah, I don't know how they would have

826
01:02:57.599 --> 01:03:01.079
been able to transfer that. It
is super suspicious, so that Dylan has

827
01:03:01.119 --> 01:03:07.280
this missing knife. Yeah. Kathy's
twenty million dollar wrongful death lawsuit accused Joe,

828
01:03:07.360 --> 01:03:12.360
Victor and Dylan of not securing medical
attention sooner for Robert. Kathy said

829
01:03:12.360 --> 01:03:15.719
the lawsuit wasn't about the money,
but holding someone accountable for her husband's death.

830
01:03:16.320 --> 01:03:20.800
The case was settled out of court
for an undisclosed amount. After the

831
01:03:20.840 --> 01:03:25.159
trio refused to answer questions during their
depositions, they pleaded the fifth Kathy was

832
01:03:25.199 --> 01:03:30.679
stunned and frustrated by the men's decision
to invoke the fifth during their depositions.

833
01:03:30.280 --> 01:03:34.639
She felt she had no other choice
but to settle the lawsuit. She really

834
01:03:34.639 --> 01:03:37.400
didn't want to, but she was
just like, it's not going to go

835
01:03:37.400 --> 01:03:40.480
anywhere. Yeah, that's too bad. So frustrating, she told the Washington

836
01:03:40.519 --> 01:03:45.280
Post quote. They can rot from
the inside out from all the secrets they

837
01:03:45.400 --> 01:03:50.760
chose to keep. That's their choice. I chose to move on. Half

838
01:03:50.800 --> 01:03:53.239
of the settlement went to a charitable
trust set up in Robert's name, and

839
01:03:53.320 --> 01:03:59.199
the other half to a law clinic
at the University of Pennsylvania Law School to

840
01:03:59.320 --> 01:04:03.320
offer legal li to inner city residents. One of the things that hurt Kathy

841
01:04:03.400 --> 01:04:08.280
most was that people assumed that Robert
had been killed in a sex game gone

842
01:04:08.280 --> 01:04:11.920
wrong. People would avoid her or
not look her in the eye. She

843
01:04:12.039 --> 01:04:15.880
told the Washington Post quote. It
was an assumption by people who did not

844
01:04:15.079 --> 01:04:18.679
know Robert at all. He was
an open book and he and I had

845
01:04:18.679 --> 01:04:24.280
a very deep understanding and trust of
each other. People can continue to choose

846
01:04:24.280 --> 01:04:28.480
to believe what they want. I
have moved on. Kathy has remarried and

847
01:04:28.559 --> 01:04:31.679
lives in Washington, d C.
And still works as an attorney. A

848
01:04:31.760 --> 01:04:35.280
year after Robert's murder, the house
on Swan Street was sold for one point

849
01:04:35.320 --> 01:04:40.440
five million dollars. Joe and Victor
moved to Miami Shores, Florida, hiding

850
01:04:40.480 --> 01:04:44.559
away living a quiet, private life, both still working in their chosen careers.

851
01:04:45.079 --> 01:04:47.239
Joe changed his name and goes by
Joe Anderson now, which is like,

852
01:04:47.400 --> 01:04:49.960
if everyone knows you go by Joe
Anderson, why to change the name.

853
01:04:50.159 --> 01:04:53.840
That's a pretty common name, though
hard to find. It's funny though.

854
01:04:53.920 --> 01:04:59.000
Yeah, he and Victor remain a
couple. Joe had a business distributing

855
01:04:59.079 --> 01:05:02.239
porn. Sure if it's if it
still exists or not, but what a

856
01:05:02.280 --> 01:05:06.039
way to stay under the radar,
Joe. Yeah, Dylan is no longer

857
01:05:06.119 --> 01:05:12.000
a member of the family. Immediately
after the acquittal, he absconded to Thailand

858
01:05:12.360 --> 01:05:15.320
and attended a school to become a
pilates instructor. Today he works as a

859
01:05:15.320 --> 01:05:19.679
pilates instructor and massage therapist in the
Miami area, and he is married to

860
01:05:19.679 --> 01:05:25.880
someone different. He changed his name
and goes by Dylan Thomas. So try

861
01:05:25.920 --> 01:05:30.000
and search for Dylan Thomas and Joey
Anderson and see how many hits you get.

862
01:05:30.119 --> 01:05:34.039
Yeah, so Dylan, doesn't he
sound just like kind of like a

863
01:05:34.079 --> 01:05:38.199
spoiled rich guy, Like I think
his parents had money, because you know,

864
01:05:38.280 --> 01:05:42.360
he just kind of flitted around and
did a lot of different careers.

865
01:05:43.679 --> 01:05:46.280
In cases like Robert Wan, it's
easy to get caught up in the mystery

866
01:05:46.280 --> 01:05:50.639
and intrigue, but we must never
forget that a wonderful man lost his life

867
01:05:50.679 --> 01:05:55.280
and his friends and family bear the
burden of his grieve forever. Yeah,

868
01:05:55.280 --> 01:05:59.559
it's so sad. It seems like
such a great guy, and Kathy seems

869
01:05:59.559 --> 01:06:02.079
like a great gal. I held
it together, but I'm breaking a little

870
01:06:02.079 --> 01:06:05.199
bit. But yeah, it just
sounds like a fabulous man. And you

871
01:06:05.239 --> 01:06:11.400
know things, I have no doubt. Yeah, no justice, no justice.

872
01:06:11.440 --> 01:06:15.920
I mean maybe someday something will happen. Yeah, seems hard to imagine

873
01:06:15.920 --> 01:06:19.280
at this point that something's going to
break in the case one thing that is

874
01:06:19.320 --> 01:06:23.800
really a head scratch is there's so
many things in this case head scratchers,

875
01:06:23.800 --> 01:06:27.440
but there's absolutely no motive. I
mean, I was really well loved by

876
01:06:27.480 --> 01:06:33.280
everyone, and I don't think whatever
happened Joe, Dylan and Hylaan Joe Victor

877
01:06:33.360 --> 01:06:40.400
and Dylan had no intent on him
dying. Yeah, Robert's sexuality has been

878
01:06:40.400 --> 01:06:44.760
greatly speculated on, which I think
is so disrespectful to his wife and his

879
01:06:44.800 --> 01:06:49.079
family. Yeah, he supported the
gay community, but he was never known

880
01:06:49.159 --> 01:06:53.840
to have had any yeah relationship,
and he and Joe had been friends for

881
01:06:53.880 --> 01:06:57.599
a long time, so it's really
not there's nothing weird about going and staying

882
01:06:57.639 --> 01:07:00.480
at a friend's house or whatever just
because that friend gay and you're not right,

883
01:07:01.320 --> 01:07:05.119
it was just and there's just the
lack of blood evidence is mad.

884
01:07:05.239 --> 01:07:09.840
Yeah, that's just so baffling.
You said something about the Kidaver dogs.

885
01:07:10.880 --> 01:07:14.159
They hit on like a spot on
the patio, like a drain on the

886
01:07:14.199 --> 01:07:16.840
patio. That's what we need to
talk about, is like what could have

887
01:07:16.920 --> 01:07:20.480
happened? What do you think could
have happened? I am I have no

888
01:07:20.559 --> 01:07:27.400
idea. I really can't even imagine, Like I can't imagine there's no motive

889
01:07:28.000 --> 01:07:30.360
to kill him, like you said, if they were playing some sort of

890
01:07:30.400 --> 01:07:33.800
weird game or something, I just
can't even imagine what that would be like.

891
01:07:34.599 --> 01:07:38.519
So every time I've heard this case, people talk about like, well,

892
01:07:38.599 --> 01:07:41.440
he came into the house at ten
thirty. They didn't drink but and

893
01:07:41.480 --> 01:07:44.679
he was really the only talked for
like fifteen to twenty minutes. Dylan gave

894
01:07:44.760 --> 01:07:46.559
him a glass of water. Dylan's
like, oh, here's a glass of

895
01:07:46.599 --> 01:07:51.159
water. I'm wondering how long it
takes for paralytics to work. If there

896
01:07:51.440 --> 01:07:56.079
could have been something in his water. Yeah. Maybe. People also talk

897
01:07:56.119 --> 01:08:01.760
about the needle pricks, but and
spurt, I don't know anything opinion.

898
01:08:02.599 --> 01:08:06.960
I think those were probably from the
I because they they had said that,

899
01:08:08.119 --> 01:08:10.960
you know, he was already he
had already probably been dead for quite a

900
01:08:10.960 --> 01:08:14.119
while when they were trying to establish
an IVY line. So of course they

901
01:08:14.119 --> 01:08:16.439
weren't going to be able to get
it right. But they tried in many

902
01:08:16.479 --> 01:08:19.640
different locations, and one of them
was like the elbow, the neck.

903
01:08:19.960 --> 01:08:24.159
I think and probably I know people
are gonna yell at me for this,

904
01:08:24.239 --> 01:08:27.119
but like between your toes, I
think you can get one and like behind

905
01:08:27.199 --> 01:08:30.439
your So those are the locations where
the pin pricks, the needle pricks were,

906
01:08:30.520 --> 01:08:35.359
So I think that's what those were. But people have also talked about

907
01:08:35.399 --> 01:08:42.600
maybe he was given ketamine in his
water because ketamine like can also produce paralysis.

908
01:08:43.880 --> 01:08:46.760
I don't know if it was Dylan
and Joe or just Dylan or just

909
01:08:46.880 --> 01:08:50.720
Joe. I really I just had
like a little bit of soft spot for

910
01:08:50.880 --> 01:08:56.239
Victor. He just seems yeah,
I mean it's very I don't think that

911
01:08:56.319 --> 01:08:59.000
he knew what was happening. Yeah, it sure doesn't seem like it,

912
01:08:59.079 --> 01:09:01.760
but you know, I know you
can only people can can be good actors.

913
01:09:01.800 --> 01:09:06.239
But just his nine when one call
and interrogation, I just it just

914
01:09:06.239 --> 01:09:10.760
seems very authentic. It did,
and who knows what he knows. Now

915
01:09:11.640 --> 01:09:15.520
I believe that he and Joe are
still together. And I don't know if

916
01:09:15.520 --> 01:09:18.960
I could sleep next to someone yeah
every night if I doubted no innocence.

917
01:09:20.079 --> 01:09:25.000
So Joe and Dylan were kind of
known to always be looking for like a

918
01:09:25.039 --> 01:09:29.359
new adventure or a new sexual partner. So I believe it's possible that the

919
01:09:29.439 --> 01:09:34.199
two of them could have done something
together because remember Victor took a sleeping pill,

920
01:09:34.439 --> 01:09:38.439
yeah, and he could have been
out cold, although he said he

921
01:09:38.479 --> 01:09:42.880
remembered waking up with Joe next to
him, so maybe the encounter somehow went

922
01:09:42.960 --> 01:09:46.399
wrong he would be stabbed. I
can't either. I mean, the only

923
01:09:46.439 --> 01:09:50.520
thing I could think of is if
they drugged him for some whatever reason,

924
01:09:50.720 --> 01:09:56.760
and like maybe he died from the
drugs or something and then they stabbed him.

925
01:09:56.760 --> 01:10:00.560
But the autopsy showed that he died
from the stab wounds though, right,

926
01:10:01.479 --> 01:10:05.800
maybe he wasn't conscious and they got
scared. Yeah. Maybe It's really

927
01:10:05.840 --> 01:10:10.760
frustrating because if we don't we just
don't know how the answer. Yeah,

928
01:10:10.760 --> 01:10:13.960
and the lack of the blood,
it's just it's so baffling to me.

929
01:10:14.239 --> 01:10:16.760
That's okay, that's one thing that
we needed to talk about. I think

930
01:10:16.800 --> 01:10:21.119
that they took Robert into the shower
and they cleaned off his wounds, because

931
01:10:21.119 --> 01:10:24.399
the wounds really and I don't know
if that part was planned, but the

932
01:10:24.439 --> 01:10:29.119
wounds really small enough. I'm sure
they bled profusely, but once you know,

933
01:10:29.239 --> 01:10:30.920
he passed, they were able to
clean him up. Right. Then

934
01:10:30.920 --> 01:10:35.520
they took the bedding and the towels
and even Robert's clothing and they took them

935
01:10:35.560 --> 01:10:42.439
off to the patio and they hose
them off, okay, and then they

936
01:10:42.520 --> 01:10:45.159
must have dried them in the dryer, which again is why the dog alerted

937
01:10:45.159 --> 01:10:49.800
on the dryer. And then they
redressed Robert, remade the bed, and

938
01:10:49.840 --> 01:10:54.880
then they called nine one one.
I think that it was probably Joe and

939
01:10:54.960 --> 01:10:58.720
Dylan were in it together. Yeah, that seems like the most plausible,

940
01:10:59.279 --> 01:11:00.359
or it could have been Ellan on
his own. I don't know. I

941
01:11:00.399 --> 01:11:06.199
also kind of think that I didn't
play any of Dylan's interrogation. He was

942
01:11:06.439 --> 01:11:13.319
His interrogation was similar to Victor's,
where he didn't say a whole lot he

943
01:11:13.399 --> 01:11:17.359
was he was emotional. So one
other thing that I wanted to mention was

944
01:11:17.399 --> 01:11:23.520
that Sarah Morgan, the fourth roommate, she really she was talked to,

945
01:11:23.640 --> 01:11:28.479
but she wasn't really investigated. So
Sarah wasn't just her roommate. She was

946
01:11:28.520 --> 01:11:33.119
actually very close friends with the three
men. She and Victor were especially close,

947
01:11:34.159 --> 01:11:42.279
and it was said that Sarah was
kind of like Victor's eyes and ears

948
01:11:42.319 --> 01:11:45.720
when he wasn't in the house.
And I think that at at one point

949
01:11:45.359 --> 01:11:53.159
Dylan had said to someone that he
was going to replace Victor and Sarah.

950
01:11:53.880 --> 01:11:58.359
She was keeping an eye outing,
an eye out, and so Victor came

951
01:11:58.399 --> 01:12:03.039
home that afternoon from Denver, and
I think his work trip was cut short,

952
01:12:03.239 --> 01:12:08.720
So you have to ask yourself why
did he come home early. Sarah

953
01:12:08.760 --> 01:12:13.520
was away that night, and the
way I understand it is she Joe said

954
01:12:13.520 --> 01:12:16.000
in his interrogation, Oh, sometimes
she spent the night away with other friends.

955
01:12:16.199 --> 01:12:19.640
No, she didn't. That was
the first time she had ever been

956
01:12:19.680 --> 01:12:25.279
away. That's interesting. So that
was kind of interesting too. But if

957
01:12:25.359 --> 01:12:28.239
they told her to go like,
I don't think she was complicit. I

958
01:12:28.279 --> 01:12:30.479
don't think she knew what was going
to happen, right, I'm just wondering

959
01:12:30.520 --> 01:12:32.880
if she was questioned, did she
give any explanation why. I don't have

960
01:12:32.880 --> 01:12:38.760
any information about Sarah's questioning, but
there does seem like there was just kind

961
01:12:38.800 --> 01:12:44.159
of this dynamic, an unhealthy dynamic
between the three men, and maybe Dylan

962
01:12:44.359 --> 01:12:51.560
was well. Obviously Dylan was jockeying
for Victor's position. Right Joe's brother,

963
01:12:51.680 --> 01:12:56.479
Michael. We mentioned him and how
he had a history of drug abuse,

964
01:12:57.600 --> 01:13:01.159
and Joe bailed him out a lot. I think I'm not sure if we

965
01:13:01.199 --> 01:13:03.159
made this clear, but he was
very good at what he did. He

966
01:13:03.279 --> 01:13:06.359
was a very good talker, He
was a very good lawyer, and he

967
01:13:06.439 --> 01:13:11.560
defended his brother many times, so
his brother owed him. So it's possible.

968
01:13:11.600 --> 01:13:16.960
I think that Michael could have come
and taken the murder weapon, bloody

969
01:13:17.000 --> 01:13:20.399
towels that they used for cleaning,
and he could have maybe taken them away

970
01:13:20.439 --> 01:13:25.000
from the house. I should mention
too, that the men's cars were searched,

971
01:13:26.279 --> 01:13:28.199
so like, you know, you
have to wonder, like where did

972
01:13:28.239 --> 01:13:30.520
they hide, right, because obviously
they cleaned the house up with something,

973
01:13:30.960 --> 01:13:35.479
So either Michael could have come and
gotten it or I don't know where else

974
01:13:35.479 --> 01:13:39.039
I could have gone. Yeah,
and he said Michael was a phlebotomist,

975
01:13:39.199 --> 01:13:42.399
right right, and that's yeah,
they could have gotten a drug from him.

976
01:13:42.560 --> 01:13:44.600
Yeah, I just see. Yeah, I don't know. The whole

977
01:13:44.600 --> 01:13:46.920
thing with the blood and everything just
makes me wonder if there's some connection there

978
01:13:46.960 --> 01:13:54.279
with him being a phlebotomist also.
But it's very baffling. It's very baffling.

979
01:13:55.439 --> 01:13:58.159
This case could be my Roman umpire. I'm not sure if I'm going

980
01:13:58.239 --> 01:14:03.000
to be able to give it up. Yeah. I use some fabulous sources

981
01:14:03.000 --> 01:14:09.319
that I'd like to mention. There
is a blog called who Killed Robert wand

982
01:14:09.319 --> 01:14:14.199
dot com. It was made by
four men. It's a podcaster's dream or

983
01:14:14.239 --> 01:14:17.479
an investigator's dream, has like literally
everything you could want, like a treasure

984
01:14:17.520 --> 01:14:23.680
trove of information, and they did
a fabulous job. David Greer, Craig

985
01:14:23.840 --> 01:14:28.640
Ronstein, his partner, Doug Johnson, and Michael Kremen. Sadly the latter

986
01:14:28.680 --> 01:14:32.319
two are now deceased, but it's
just a really great source and they're really

987
01:14:32.920 --> 01:14:40.119
great funny guys. I watched like
a two hour YouTube from Judy Judy the

988
01:14:40.159 --> 01:14:45.079
YouTube Lawyer AA Legal AA Legal Focus. The three of them had a really

989
01:14:45.079 --> 01:14:49.600
great conversation that some of the theory
that they talked about, all the theories,

990
01:14:49.880 --> 01:14:55.760
and it was really I will link
to that and you should if you're

991
01:14:56.560 --> 01:14:59.399
not able to give this case up
like me, you would enjoy that conversation.

992
01:15:00.119 --> 01:15:05.520
And there's also a Peacock, a
two part Peacock documentary that I think

993
01:15:05.520 --> 01:15:09.840
I'm gonna I think you would enjoy. I would watch it again. It

994
01:15:09.920 --> 01:15:12.079
was really well done. Yeah,
I would like to say it. I'm

995
01:15:12.079 --> 01:15:15.399
who killed Robert One, That's what
it's called. And again it's on Peacock

996
01:15:15.520 --> 01:15:20.680
and we have a lot of streaming
services and we probably don't need all of

997
01:15:20.680 --> 01:15:26.199
them, but Peacock for me is
just I won't give up Peacock. I

998
01:15:26.239 --> 01:15:28.960
can give up Netflix, PERI.
It's funny we subscribe to it like a

999
01:15:28.960 --> 01:15:31.520
few years ago when the Olympics were
going on, and it's actually, yeah,

1000
01:15:31.520 --> 01:15:34.399
it's been pretty good well for me, especially with being a Bravo holic.

1001
01:15:34.640 --> 01:15:39.479
So yeah, I will not give
up Peacock anytime soon. But they

1002
01:15:39.520 --> 01:15:42.479
do do a nice job. It's
great for dateline too, Yeah, yeah,

1003
01:15:42.640 --> 01:15:46.239
yeah, So that is the horrible
story of Robert One, the horribly

1004
01:15:46.319 --> 01:15:49.640
sad story of Robert One. Yeah, really sad. Great job telling it,

1005
01:15:49.720 --> 01:15:53.920
man. Definitely you weren't lying when
you said it was one of the

1006
01:15:53.920 --> 01:15:59.279
most baffling cases up front. I
mean, it really seems like at least

1007
01:16:00.359 --> 01:16:03.479
and Joe had something to do with
it, but it just is very confusing

1008
01:16:04.239 --> 01:16:09.720
what actually happened. Yeah. The
only way we're ever going to know what

1009
01:16:09.880 --> 01:16:14.640
happened is if one of the men
have a moment of good conscience and come

1010
01:16:14.720 --> 01:16:19.079
forward and yeah and say you know
what their involvement was. Yeah. Unfortunately,

1011
01:16:19.119 --> 01:16:23.399
it doesn't seem like that's going to
happen, and doesn't seem like there's

1012
01:16:23.439 --> 01:16:26.479
ever going to be justice for Robert. Well, rest in peace, Robert.

1013
01:16:26.640 --> 01:16:30.840
Yeah again, just sounds like a
really lovely man. And it's so,

1014
01:16:30.840 --> 01:16:32.680
what's your birthday week? What are
we going to do for your birthday?

1015
01:16:34.319 --> 01:16:38.720
Well, we're well, we're going
to Toronto for Thanksgiving. So I

1016
01:16:38.720 --> 01:16:41.399
feel like that's sort of what already
happened. So that's past, I know,

1017
01:16:41.479 --> 01:16:44.119
but we're about to do that.
That is part of your birthday.

1018
01:16:44.159 --> 01:16:47.319
Yeah, I feel like that's kind
of my birthday present. Yeah, So

1019
01:16:47.399 --> 01:16:50.680
I guess I just hope that we
have a nice time as a family and

1020
01:16:50.760 --> 01:16:56.920
I have some nice cherry chip cake. Yeah. I make a pretty darn

1021
01:16:56.960 --> 01:17:02.319
good homemade cake, but you ever
the darn box of cherry. It's one

1022
01:17:02.319 --> 01:17:05.479
of the sentimental things more than anything, just you know, growing up,

1023
01:17:05.520 --> 01:17:09.479
that's what my mom always made me
on my birthday and I love it.

1024
01:17:09.600 --> 01:17:12.159
Well, they are good. It
is, it is. It is a

1025
01:17:12.159 --> 01:17:16.760
pretty yummy cake. I wanted to
mention to a lot of people have recommended

1026
01:17:16.840 --> 01:17:20.760
cases and we are kind of working
through them. But I'm like a raccoon

1027
01:17:20.800 --> 01:17:25.279
and I see a shiny other case
and then I get distracted. But a

1028
01:17:25.279 --> 01:17:29.640
lot of sometimes the case recommendations there's
just not enough. We just can't find

1029
01:17:29.720 --> 01:17:32.159
enough information to do a whole episode
on it, so that is Problemly,

1030
01:17:32.239 --> 01:17:36.359
if you've recommended a case and we
haven't done it, it might be because

1031
01:17:36.600 --> 01:17:40.560
we just can't find enough and we
don't it. We don't have like a

1032
01:17:40.560 --> 01:17:44.840
team of researchers, you know,
going out and doing foyer requests and stuff

1033
01:17:44.840 --> 01:17:47.079
like that. We basically rely on
what's out there, you know, what

1034
01:17:47.199 --> 01:17:50.560
reporters have dug up and things like
that, and court by No, Yeah,

1035
01:17:50.560 --> 01:17:58.199
it's just uh, just mom and
dad running the show and doing our

1036
01:17:58.359 --> 01:18:02.039
do our best. We are doing
our vast wanted to mention too that your

1037
01:18:02.479 --> 01:18:09.880
messages, your emails, your dms
are just so kind, thoughtful and really

1038
01:18:10.039 --> 01:18:14.439
keep us motivated and we're so grateful
for that. We are so so much

1039
01:18:15.239 --> 01:18:18.600
you just really you guys are so
generous and we really appreciate it. The

1040
01:18:18.680 --> 01:18:29.880
review like we read the reviews and
just humbled and impostor impostor syndrome is real

1041
01:18:30.600 --> 01:18:32.279
here for us. But we can't
thank you enough. Yeah, thank you

1042
01:18:32.319 --> 01:18:36.680
so much. So please like,
rate review and subscribe, follow us on

1043
01:18:36.720 --> 01:18:42.560
social media, or send us an
email if you're not on social media Lovemrykill

1044
01:18:42.720 --> 01:18:45.359
at gmail dot com. If you
want to send us a snack too,

1045
01:18:45.640 --> 01:18:48.800
We're all was excited to get snacks
in the mail p O box one one

1046
01:18:48.880 --> 01:18:55.359
one Dexter, Michigan four eight one
three zero. Consider supporting us on Patreon

1047
01:18:55.479 --> 01:19:00.760
patreon dot com slash love Mary Kill
five dollars a month and uh commercial free

1048
01:19:01.119 --> 01:19:08.039
and early access and bonus episodes.
But even if you don't subscribe to patroon,

1049
01:19:08.119 --> 01:19:10.720
we love you, We love you
all, We appreciate you. Until

1050
01:19:10.800 --> 01:20:00.640
next time. Don't kill your husband
and don't kill your wife.