The Piketon Massacre - Part 1

0:00 Hi. I am Rich and I'm Tina. And if there's one thing we've learned in over twenty years of marriage, some days you'll feel like killing your husband, and some days you'll feel like killing your wife. Welcome to love, Mary kill Eightina. Hey, Rich, how are you? I'm great? How are you? I'm good? But you sounded really, really serious when you said some days you'll feel like killing your husband. I was a little worried. I really haven't. We haven't seen each other today yet. It's like four o'clock. And yeah, I was out running errands and you were. I didn't even know you were out. I was heads down working.

0:46 I can't believe like I was gone for like four hours and you didn't notice I was missing. You didn't want to say I wonder where my beautiful wife is. I didn't. I was so focused on my work. Oh all right, Well, so here I am. I just want to issue you an apology up front for the snack so many things, the snack that I'm about to serve. Well, I know you're going to serve me. And yesterday we recorded our Patreon episode and I made you you rate it ten out of ten cookies. I was feeling you're not going to rate this snack ten out of ten, but maybe I'm going to love it. I don't know. Maybe. So the case that we're going to present today is based in southern Ohio, and so when I was thinking about what kind of snack should I serve, the first thing that, of course came to mind was Skyline chili, right, I mean what I have never had of. Didn't we stop at the Skyline once on our way? I don't think we did.

1:40 It's possible, I just don't remember it. Well. I used to live in Dayton, Ohio, and I would go there for lunch at least like one day a week. So if you're like me and you're not great at geography, where we live in the an Arbor Michigan area, Ohio is only yeah, twenty minutes away to the Ohio border. But you're talking about southern Ohio, which, right, yeah, Skyline Chili is from. I think Cincinnati is where it originated, but anywhere in southern Ohio. But so when I thought of Skyline chili, I thought, well, maybe I could find a copycat recipe or something, And then I discovered that Skyline like making a pot of chili. But then I discovered that Skyline has a frozen line of food, so I bought a ever seen it frozen before? I've seen it in the can. Yeah. Well here's the thing. So we've talked about Skyline chili before. Yeah, I'm sure we have. So the picture on the front of the frozen food box looks pretty pretty amazing, I mean, okay, but the reality is not quite as amazing. Did you put a ton of cheese on top? I did put a ton of cheese on it, and it does not look very appetizing. We're not people that eat a ton of frozen entrees. We're not all right. Do you want to take a break and try it? Let's try it? Well, So, I think that was the worst back since I don't remember what the chip was.

3:05 You brought home some sort of chip. Was a chicken chip or from Europe? Yeahs roasted chicken? Yeah yeah. I spit that out, and I spit out the chili. No, thank you. I was not a big fan of it either. I do. Actually, I like Skyline chili at the restaurant. I mean, it's not the best thing in the world, but you know, it's pretty good. But this was Yeah, thumbs down. There's like cinnamon in it. I know. Yeah, it was pretty strange cinnamon and chili. I don't mean. Maybe you could put a little in, but that was overpowering with cinnamon. So yeah, so what else did you bring me? You have to wait for a part two? What else are you? What are you going to rate that? We're doing a rating system now, so I'm going to rate it a point five.

3:49 Yeah, what are you going to read it? I'll give it a one point seven. That's pretty high. Dinner then, I don't think so. All right, Well, let's carry on today. We're going to tell you the story of the Pike County Massacre also known as the piked In Massacre, also known as the Rodent Family massacre. This was a request from our listener Allison. So thank you Allison for sending this along. Really interesting case. I'm just gonna say up front, there are a lot of people in this case. There are a lot of names, a lot of relationships to keep straight. So I will try my best to make it clear, but please just stop me and ask a question if I if you're confused, because it's easy to get lost. Around seven thirty am on Friday morning, April twenty second, twenty sixteen, Bobby Joe Manly stopped by her ex brother in law's house in the small village of Piked in, Ohio to feed his dog's chickens and his hog. Bobby Joe's sister, Dana, was divorced from Chris Rodin Senior, but the two had remained close, living down the road from each other. Bobby Joe, who also lived nearby, remained friends with Chris as well. Chris helped her out while she was out of work, including paying her to feed his animals. On this particular morning, though, Bobby Joe came upon a horrific scene. There was blood all over the house and she found Chris and his cousin Gary lying in the house covered in blood. Dead.

5:16 She called nine one one at seven forty nine AM. Yeah, yeah, we walked to love Hokay, had how head? Okay? Okay, old y, yes man, you gotta come here. Going on, Let's blo all over the house. Okay, my brother, I think the hell out of them. Okay, we'll just blood all dam can be coming with counting that dead? Is it count It's Mike County, you know that?

6:24 Okay, Okay, I needed to get out of the house. Then drive over there. That's what it is. Okay, what's your name? My bommy, mommy, what are your brother in law name? What's your brother in law's name? You know? Dam Yeah, what's the name? Ramp and Gary wrote that and it looks like the dad. Do you think they're both dead? I think to say that. Look, I don't have the fock out of them. Okay, is there anybody else in the house? Noah, Okay, was on here, but I haven't that fun in and letting's on the floor, Bobby, and you can get out of the house.

7:14 Yeah, okay, stay out of the house. Don't let anybody go there. Okay, yeah, all right, we don't get any more theoray, okay, I thank you Mom. Yeah, sor Bobby that that's a horrible scene to walk into. Yeah, I'm sorry. The sound quality is not great on that clip, but yeah, I thought it was interesting just to hear how how frantic and upset she was, as you could well imagine. While waiting for the police to arrive, Bobby Joe walked next door to where her nephew, Frankie Rodin, who is Chris and Dana's twenty year old son lived with his fiance, Hannah Gilly, along with frank Thinkie's three year old son Brantley, and the couple six month old baby boy, Ruger.

8:05 Bobby jo knocked on the door and Brantley opened it. He had blood all over him, but he appeared unharmed physically. He said his dad was quote playing zombie unquote in the bedroom. Bobby Joe made her way to the bedroom where she found another terrible scene, Frankie and Hannah lying dead in their bed, covered in blood, with six month old Ruger, physically unharmed lying between them, also covered in blood. Bobby, I'm sorry. We have four people that have been murdered Oway. So far, we have four victims. Yeah. Bobby Joe then called her brother James in hysterics and told him what she had discovered. He lived near their sister Dana, so he went over to check on her and the kids. He entered the house and found two more bodies, Dana and her nineteen year old daughter, Hannah May Rodin.

8:54 Hannah May had just had a baby, girl, Kylie May, five days earlier. The newborn was lying unharmed next to her mother. A third body was eventually found at this crime scene sixteen year old Chris Rodin Junior, which was Chris Senior and Dana's youngest child. Words spread quickly in the small town, and the local news picked up on the story of the seven deaths at three locations along Union Hill Road. Watching the news that afternoon, Chris Senior's cousin, Donald Stone, decided to go check on Kenneth Rodin, Chris Senior's brother. He had tried reaching Kenneth after hearing about the murders, but didn't get an answer. He arrived at Kenneth's home to find his cousin dead, the eighth and final victim discovered that day. Donald called nine one one at one twenty six pm on ahead, yeah, yeah, I need a baby.

9:56 Had came out to nine blackboard. Okay, uh, it's all that stuff. It's on the knees. I just don just tell my cousin with a games jot, Wayne, okay, your life No, okay, here it's placed the head line out. I don't know what he had that is. They don't you don't have a ball, you don't have a bomb. Okay. I'll be staying out by the very way on Donald saying Donald Donald thin down, Yeah, I'm a cousin. What do you mean? Yeah, okay, out of the house. I'm I'm out of the house right now. I just went in hold night and take right now and all the pay he had a game, got wings. Okay, Okay, we're gonna get that. Okay, all right, Mark. Eight bodies, all from the same family, at four crime scenes, all shot and killed the same night in cold blood execution style. Most of them shot multiple times, thirty two gunshot wounds altogether, and three young children left alive at the crime scenes.

11:20 It's just unbelievable. I'm going to summarize the eight victims of their names, ages, and relationships. We will post a picture of all of them on our social media to help you keep it straight. But the victims were Chris Roden Senior, who is forty, and his cousin Gary Roden thirty eight, found at crime scene number one. Chris and Dana's son Frankie Rodin twenty and his fiance Hannah Gilly, also twenty. Found at crime scene number two. Chris's ex wife, Dana Roden thirty seven, and their other two kids, nineteen year old Hannah May and sixteen year old Chris Junior, found at crime scene number three, and then Chris Senior's brother, Kenneth Roden forty four, found at crime scene number four. It would be the second largest mass shooting in the US during twenty sixteen, second only to the Pulse nightclub shooting that would occur a couple months later. It would become the largest most complicated criminal investigation in Ohio's history, involving the Pike County Sheriff's Department, the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation, the FBI, and the DEA. The question on everyone's mind, who would do such a thing, mercilessly killing an entire family in cold blood. Piked In, Ohio is a small rural village of twenty one hundred people located in Pike County. It's about twenty five miles north of the Kentucky border, seventy miles south of Columbus, and ninety miles east of Cincinnati. If you hop on US twenty three south from ann Arbor, it

12:52 will take you directly to piked In in about four and a half hours. In the heart of Ohio's Appalachian County. Pike County has an unemployment rate about twice that of the country. As a whole, and twenty four percent of its residents are currently living below the poverty line. Piked In is home to one of only three gaseous diffusion plants which produce in enrich uranium as fuel for nuclear power reactors. While the county is not wealthy, the people of piked In are known to help each other. It's a close knit community where everyone knows everyone else's business. A lot of the residents refer to themselves as hillbilly's, and while many people use the term hillbilly in a derogatory way, it's a point of pride for those who use the word to describe themselves. To them it refers to the fact that they are simple, hard working folk who respect nature, love their families, and take care of each other. The Rodent family had lived in piked In for generations. Dana Manly met Chris Rodin when she was in high school. He was almost three years older than her, and it was love at first sight. Dana and Chris married and had three children together. Clarence, better known as Frankie, was born in nineteen ninety five, Hannah May was born in nineteen ninety seven, and then Chris Junior born in nineteen ninety nine. Dana and Chris were married for twenty two years before they decided to call it quits, but they remained close even after their divorce. Chris bought Dana house just two miles down Union Hill Road so

14:22 they could work together to raise their children. Chris was known as a hard working family man who would do anything for anybody, no questions asked. He lived in a mobile home on his property with cars all over the yard that he would work on. Chris was a skilled craftsman and carpenter who would build amazing and intricate decks for people. He also worked at a local lumber company and did seasonal work at Big Bear Lake Family Resort in Lucasville, Ohio. Chris's brother, Kenneth, was a divorced father of four and grandfather of four. He worked at US Utility in Columbus and also at the lumber company with his brother. Chris's cousin, Gary was more like a brother to him than a cousin. Gary had struggled with drug and alcohol addiction and would often stay with Chris, especially when he was trying to sober up. Dana was a nurse at an assisted living community. She had a big, infectious laugh.

15:18 She was outgoing, lots of fun, and also had a big heart. Her world revolved around her kids and grandkids. She talked about them all the time at work. A coworker set of Dana quote she had a heart of gold and was extremely giving and excellent at what she did. It was nothing for her to bring in food for all the staff that was working, or to bring in gifts unquote. Clarence Frankie Rodin was the oldest child of Chris Senior and Dana. He loved participating in demolition derbies. He would often post photos of his prized Ford Crown Victoria, which everyone in the derby circuit was envious of. Frankie and his little brother Chris, spent most of their time building and rebuilding cars to compete in demolition derbies around Ohio. Can I ask a question about demolition derbys? Okay, I thought you just took it to one demolition derby and the car was done. Is that not the case?

16:11 I think you. I think you probably have to rebuild and there's probably parts that are done and you know, put up. I even not an expert in demolition derbies, but that's just my guess my only frame of reference is happy Days, Happy Days. Frankie was engaged to marry Hannah Gilly, who was twenty at the time of the murders. Hannah was on homecoming court in high school and had plans to attend college, get a degree in business, and open a daycare. She and Frankie had a baby boy, Ruger, six months before the murders. Frankie also had a three year old boy, Brantley, from a previous relationship. He and Hannah were excited about their upcoming marriage and had already decided they wanted to have lots of kids together. The other Hannah in our story, Hannah May Rodin was the middle child of Chrissine, and Dana will refer to her as Hannah May to differentiate between her and Hannah Gilly. Hannah Mae was nineteen when she was killed. She was funny, kind and outgoing. She could talk to anyone. Hannah May worked as a nurse's aide at a nursing home. She had a two and a half year old girl, Sophia, who was with her dad, a local guy named Jake Wagner, with whom she shared custody. When the murders took place.

17:25 She also had a five day old baby girl named Kylie, who was with her when she was shot and killed. We'll talk more about Hannah Mae and her kids later, but at the time of the killings, it wasn't known who Kylie's father was. There were three different guys that she had been with who potentially could have been the father. Last, but not least, Chris Junior was sixteen and a freshman in high school when he was killed. He was a happy, go lucky teenager with a mischievous side. He had recently gotten his driver's license, and he loved helping his older brother Frankie with his demolition derby cars, and he also worked in the summer with his dad at Big Bear Lake family resort. As the police examined the four grisly crime scenes, it quickly became clear that these were targeted killings. Most of the victims were shot at point blank range while they were sleeping. Chris Senior was the only one who had appeared to have been conscious and aware of what was happening. He had nine gunshot wounds altogether to his head, torso in arms.

18:26 One shot was to his forearm, indicating that he had probably raised his hands in self defense. Also, there were wood fragments found on Chris's body, indicating that he may have been shot outside and then dragged through the house. The rest of the victims were shot only in the head, most of them multiple times. Gary was shot twice in the head and once in the face. One of the shots must have been taken with the muzzle right against his temple, as shown by the muzzle stain. Frankie was shot three times in the head, Hannah Gilly was shot five times in the head, Dana was shot three times in the right side of her head and once under her chin. Hannah May was shot twice in the head, and Chris Junior was shot four times in the head, so these must have been all close from Scuriti said that the only person who had been shot only once was Kenneth, who had one bullet wound through his eye. Curiously, his body was found with dollar bills scattered all around it, leading people to speculate whether the killings were somehow financially motivated. There was very little evidence left with the crime scenes the killer or killers had been methodical, purposeful, and professional in their work.

19:38 There were no fingerprints found, no DNA, no hairs or fibers. The only clues found were two footprints in blood from two different sized shoes, indicating there were likely as at least two perpetrators. Additionally, there were shell casings found at the scenes from three different gun types, two caliber shells presumably from a long rifle, thirty caliber rounds from an SKS semi automatic rifle, and a single forty caliber round that was most likely fired from a glock pistol. The three different types of guns also pointed to the possibility of multiple killers. Being a small town where everyone knows everyone, people immediately started speculating about who might be responsible for the massacre of the Rodent family. Can you imagine everyone must have just been so shocked and panicked, Oh yeah, freaking out in such a small community to lose so many people, Yeah, Danis dad Leonards said that Chris Senior had two pitbulls, a wolf dog, and some coon dogs that were all vicious. In his opinion, the fact that the dogs hadn't been shot and killed meant the killers must have known the family fairly well, Otherwise the dogs would have attacked. The Fact that there were small children in the crime scene who were spared also pointed to the possible ability that the killings were done by someone who knew the family. Some of the Rodent family members had gotten into various fights and altercations in the days and weeks leading

21:10 up to the murders, fueling speculation that the massacre was somehow related to one of these incidents. Frankie and Chris Junior were both known as hotheads who would get into fights, especially after a heated demolition derby. After one derby several months before the killings, Frankie and Chris Junior got into an online war of words with a rival named Tommy Gorman. After the social media back and forth had gone on for a while, Frankie and Chris decided to pay Tommy a visit, where they beat up both Tommy and his dad, knocking some of Tommy Senior's front teeth out in the process. Oh boy. The fight was broken up by Tommy's grandpa, who came out and fired a shotgun into the air to put a stop to things. Frankie was arrested after the fight and sentenced to less than a year probation. Two months before the murders, Chris Junior was involved in a road rage incident with a thirty three year old woman named Rebecca Allen. Rebecca had slapped Chris Junior in the face and threatened him and his mother, Dana. The threats were recorded on his cell phone, and Rebecca ended up getting arrested and sentenced to two years probation and community service, along with getting slapped with a restraining order barring her from contacting Dana or Chris Junior. The restraining order was issued just the day before the murders.

22:30 Imagine being a thirty three year old woman and slapping a sixteen year old kid after a road rage incident. He was a little over the top, but the courts were very busy in the Piketown area, and just two weeks before the murders, a local nineteen year old named Rusty Mongold got into a beef with Chris Junior. Rusty posted on Facebook that Chris had hit him with his car and threatened to break Chris Junior's legs and curb stump him. I don't know what kurb stumped is. I think it means like you stomp on someone's head on a curb. It's probably a really bad thing to do. After the murders, the police brought Rusty in for questioning, but didn't find any evidence of his involvement. In addition to rumor spreading related to these incidents, the initial focus of investigators seemed to be on the two people who had discovered the bodies, Dana's sister Bobby Joe Manley and Dana's brother James Manley. They were both brought in for questioning several times and given polygraph tests. James apparently failed his polygraph, but we don't know the details of what questions were asked or which ones tripped him up. Investigators went so far as to put a tracking device on James's pickup truck. James eventually found it and destroyed it.

23:45 He was arrested and charged with vandalism and tampering with evidence, but both of those charges were later dismissed. So, if you find a tracking device on your vehicle and you destroy it, I had the same thought. I think you would be justified in that, wouldn't you. I mean I would think so. Yeah, that kind of surprised me at the exact same thought, because you wouldn't know who put it there necessarily, Yeah, exactly, it'd be like finding something in your house. I'd be like, well, I didn't put this here, I'm authorized to destroy it. Interesting. Mike DeWine is the current governor of Ohio, but at the time of the murders he was the attorney general. He became the face of the investigation, regularly briefing the media with the facts that the investigative team was willing to share. Another person regularly by DeWine's side in front of the cameras was Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader. Reader knew right away that this crime was much too big for the relatively small and inexperienced local police department to handle, so they called for help from the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigators or BCI. Right away, that small town police department must have just been so overwhelmed. Yeah, so much.

24:56 I mean four different crime scenes, eight different Yeah, so much evidence. Well, actually, you said there was little evidence right. Piked in and the surrounding communities were on edge after the killings, worried that they might be next. At first, a Wine exacerbated the fear by saying, whoever did the killing should be considered armed and dangerous. Duh, But I saw that seemed like, you know, more obvious words could not have been spoken, right, But he later tried to alleviate any panic by saying these were targeted killings, so the public needn't be concerned. I'm sure that did not provide a lot of comfort to the people of piked In though, right. I read somebody I saw quoted as talking about how they had never held a gun in their life and they went out and bought a gun like right away and kept it with them at all times after the killings, because I mean, you would just be totally freaked out. Well, it does seem like they were very targeted, though, and like anyone in that was remaining in the Rodent family must have been really freaked out for sure. Two days after them murders, Mike DeWine shared some news that kicked off a whole new round of speculation in a different direction. Dwine told the press that marijuana growing operations had been found at three of the four crime scenes. Chris Senior had a big barn in which he was growing marijuana, along with a second location in his attic, while Kenneth had a shed behind his trailer. This wasn't just a small number of plants for personal consumption and all there were around two hundred marijuana

26:29 plants on the three properties, about four hundred thousand dollars worth of weed. Holy cow, a lot of marijuana. So marijuana is not legal in Ohio. It wasn't that what it is? It is for medical use now, I believe, Okay. The southern part of Ohio had been devastated in the years before the Rodent family, massacred by drugs, mostly prescription painkillers, heroin, and methanphetamines. The drug overdose mortality rate in Pike County from twenty fourteen to twenty eighteen was seventy one death per one hundred thousand people, almost triple the rate for the rest of the country. Ground zero for the pill mill epidemic was the town of Portsmouth, Ohio, about fifteen miles from Piketon.

27:11 A pill mill is a doctor who writes prescriptions for money. People would come from all over the country to buy pills then sell them back home for ten times what they paid us twenty three through Piketon is known by law enforcement as the Heroine Highway. Math. Fentanyl, cocaine, heroine, and occasionally prescription meds have all been seized along there. Obviously, marijuana is a lot different from heroin and painkillers, but the news that the wine shared suddenly change the attitudes of the public towards the victims. In this case. People had less empathy, some even feeling like maybe the Rodents deserve what happened to them in some way. There have been a lot of donations flowing in to help their surviving family with funeral and other expenses, but those donations dried up. A local restaurant owner had offered a twenty five thousand dollar reward for finding the killers, but after hearing about the marijuana growing operation, he rescinded the reward.

28:08 The marijuana revelation also suggested a hossible motive. Could the Rodents have been connected to some bad people, maybe a Mexican drug cartel. Many people might think that Mexican cartels don't have a presence in the US, especially somewhere in the Midwest like southern Ohio, but that's not the case. In twenty twelve, there was a bust in Pike County of a grow operation with thirteen hundred plants, and another major bust in twenty ten where over twenty two thousand plants were seized. Both of these busts were linked to Mexican organized crime. The surviving Rodent family members were not happy about the announcement of the marijuana grow operations.

28:49 Not only did the donations joy up, but they also felt that this information was revealed in order to give the investigators an out in case they weren't able to solve the case. Kenneth's daughter Kendri said, quote, it's easier to just say, well, it's the drug cartel than to say someone in our community could have done this. It's easier to just write it off as drug related than to sit here and go through the entire process to figure out who done it, why they done it. If you say cartel, everyone's going to go for it because there's drugs. End quote. In the same press conference, Mike DeWine also said that on one of the Rodent properties, investigators had found roosters and cages consistent with cockfighting. We're not sure if this ended up being disproven or just forgotten, but it wasn't really mentioned again and no more details were revealed. In any case, Revealing both the marijuana grow operations and the cockfighting cages had the effect of changing the attitude of many in the public towards the victims of this crime. It's really unfortunate because in no way did the rodents deserve what happened to them, regardless of their involvement in these other activities. Really, that really upset me when I read about that, because I'm like, so, what they were growing marijuana, That doesn't mean your whole family deserves to get killed. We'll be back after a break.

30:18 Before we get back into the case, I'm wondering if you have a snack redemption because I am a little hungry. You'll have to wait until part two. Oh man, that really left a bad taste in my mouth. And I don't think we really talked explained what it was. I don't think we did. You're right, it's like chili, but then what's underneath of chili spaghetti? It's spaghetti with chili on top and then cheese cheese. Yeah, not great? No, well, I mean it has potential, Like, I don't think it's Is it different if you have it live at the restaurant? Yeah, it's very different. It's not like all mixed in like it was, and it's it's Yeah, it's just better. I think gonna say, Pisquetti is the spaghetti? Is it the spaghetti better at the restaurant?

31:00 I think it probably because this spaghetti was like the you know, really super thin and anyway, anyway, let's get on with our story. Two months into the investigation, there wasn't much more that was revealed to the public. People, especially the Rodent family, were growing impatient. Mike DeWine told the press, quote, I've said from the beginning this was going to be a long investigation. How long, I don't know. We know a lot more than we did on day one. Just because we're not making any announcements doesn't mean we're not making progress. Unquote. Another year went by and still there wasn't much revealed to the public. But then DeWine had a press conference in June twenty seventeen where he dropped an intriguing nugget of information. He asked the public for any information that might connect another local family, the Wagners, to the Rodents. He didn't say they were suspects. He was just looking for information. So who were the Wagners. You might member that I mentioned the father of Hanname Rhodin's two and a half year old daughter, Sophia was a local guy named Jake Wagner. Will dive deeper into Hanname and Jake's relationship in a minute, but first let's describe the rest of the Wagner family. Considered Pike County royalty, the Wagners were one of the wealthiest families in the area.

32:21 The gramma of the family, Frederica Wagner, owned property all over Pike County that encompassed more than seventeen hundred acres of land worth about four million dollars, including the Flying W Farm. At the Flying W Farm, workers bred horses, dogs, and pigs. Frederica's husband, George Wagner the Second, had created a new breed of horse, the Georgian Grand which is a blend of Freezian draft and saddlebread type horses. They also created a new breed of dog, the American Mastiff, which is a cross between the English and Anatolian mastiff and can weigh up to two hundred Holy Cow the large dog. Frederica had also founded two nonprofit organizations, Lucasville Mission, a church that helped underprivileged children, and the Crystal Springs Home, a facility providing services to developmentally disabled adults. To many people, Frederica was a saint. She was a devoutly religious woman who did a lot of community service and would help anyone who needed it. But there were also allegations that she cheated people out of money at the Crystal Springs home, that she had defrauded buyers of animals from her farm, and that she had taken advantage of people by entering into land installment contracts that promised renters could become landowners, but in reality it rarely worked out that way. Frederica and George the Second had a son named George Wagner the Third, who was better known as Billy. He was around forty five at the

33:53 time of the Rodent family killings. Billy was described by people who knew him as a sur couch potato, sharp as a bowling ball, and not much to look at. One description said he looked like a big ogre, not much of a prize. But when he met Angela Newcombe, the two fell in love and married. It's possible that Angela saw dollar signs, as the Wagner family were well known in the area for their wealth. Angela and Billy had a son, George the Fourth, who was twenty four at the time of the killings, followed soon by another son, Edward, who was better known as Jake. Why is no one known by their I know, isn't it funny? Jake was twenty three at the time of the killings. Angela supposedly didn't get along with her mother in law, Frederica Wagner, and also was alleged to have vicious fights with her husband, Billy. People said that she got through the days with Billy by slipping small amounts of a sedative into Billy's shakes to keep him somewhat calm. Ooh, that's not cool. Not cool. After George and Jake came along, Angela's world revolved around her two boys. She was extremely protective and was involved in every aspect of her son's lives. The boys were homeschooled for much of their education, although how much they actually learned is questionable. Jake later said that his mom filled out their tests for them. He said, quote, I wasn't doing that crap.

35:19 I didn't need it. I was a truck driver and a farmer. I didn't need those things. Unquote. Angela was in control of everything that went on in the Wagner household rooms were to be immaculate at all times, dishes done immediately after dinner, and everything in its place. If anything was out of place, she would go ballistic. People said she was obsessive and clingy, wanting to be in control of everything that went on around her. According to Angela's brother, she had a rough upbringing. Their father was abusive and controlling, telling Angela what clothes to wear every day. To escape, Angela joined the military at eighteen, but was only enlisted for a year. During her time in the military, she said she had been raped, but didn't feel that she could report it. The Wagners were a tight knit family with few friends. If Angela decided she didn't like you, which she often did, you weren't going to get close to her family. The oldest son, George, seemed like the odd one out in the family, being more outgoing and having more friends than the others. Jake was Angela's favorite. He was similar to her in wanting to control everything that went on. Billy did some work for his mother, Frederica, but also drove a truck to support the family. He was always coming up with money making schemes. At one point he talked about opening up a bar and a brothel in Mexico, and another scheme he had was going to Canada to buy a bunch of pharmaceuticals in order to sell them at a markup back home. It's not clear how many of

36:49 Billy's schemes actually came to fruition. Did Frederica kind of hold the purse strings for the family like they had money? Yes, it was her money, right, She was the one who had money. So I don't think Billy and Angela were super well off other than obviously having a wealthy mother and mother in law. Billy was good friends with Chris Roadin Senior. There was credible information that Bill and Chris Senior were involved in selling drugs together. Because Billy was a truck driver, he and Chris would take trips together where they would transport marijuana to be sold, but neither had ever been arrested or charged with anything related to drug production or distribution. In their investigation, the police learned that Billy and Chris were working on a big marijuana deal with the potential to bring in around eight hundred thousand dollars. Billy was not going to win any award for parent of the Year. He didn't believe in going to doctors.

37:43 When Jake was hurt as a teenager, Billy would use duct tape and black electric tape to mend his wounds. Billy also taught his sons, George and Jake, to pick locks and steal things at a young age. At age thirteen, Billy taught George how to break into truck trailers and steal their loads. Billy especially liked to steal things from Walmart. He hated Walmart for some reason. At around ages fourteen and fifteen, George and Jake started stealing gas from gas stations. They would tap into the underground fuel tanks to siphon gas at night. They would store thousands of gallons of fuel at their properties to use and to sell. Oh my goodness, I didn't think that was possible.

38:24 I know, I wouldn't have thought so either. The family mostly avoided getting into trouble with the law, but they did have a couple of infractions. In two thousand and one, Angela and Billy were charged with improperly handling a firearm when they pulled a gun on someone during a road rage incident. No one was hurt, though, and eventually the charges were dropped. In twenty twelve, Angela and Billy were both charged with receiving stolen property. Some of the Wagoners would later admit to a bunch of other crimes the family had committed but had never gotten caught for. At different times. They had torched two homes, a semi truck, a garage, and also crashed a pickup truck, all to collect insurance money. They shoplifted regularly, and once stole a trailer full of Rocky brand boots, selling them at a bargain to folks in piked In County. George would later say, quote, everybody in Pike County was wearing Rocky boots at that point. Wow, how do you know this information? And so they weren't prosecuted for the theft. No, they weren't. This all came out later in a trial. Let's just say that.

39:34 In the summer of twenty twelve, George married a girl named Tabitha who also known as Tabby, and soon had a baby boy who they named Bulvine. On our most recent Patreon episode, we talked about names that were going extinct and the direction that names were going, and I think Bulvine is a that's a pretty unique name. Might be on its way up. It might be probably probably not what it might be. It is a very unnu. I have never heard that name before. B U l v I n E bolly, it's beautiful. After they married, Tabby moved into the Wagner's home. She later described the family dynamic and how controlling Angela was. Tabby said she wasn't allowed to leave to go visit her family, and her family wasn't allowed to come visit her. She couldn't have a phone or use the internet, and every night Angela would come into Tabby and George's room and make Tabby leave so that Angela could scratch her son's back and talk about their day.

40:30 That's normal. Yeah, it's a little weird. Angela also prescribed what kind of sexual relations were allowed between her son and daughter in law. For example, oral sex was not okay because you would go to hell for that sort of thing, and having intercourse was only okay if it was for the purpose of having children. Holy cow. Yeah, it's a little old' your source for this information? I have no idea. One night, Tabby and George had a big fight. Tabby wanted to go outside to cool off, but George wouldn't allow it. Tabby got in his face and he slapped her. She went to leave, and Angela threw a two by four at her and then told George she was going to get her gun. Fortunately, the violence didn't escalate beyond that, but George and Tabitha decided to dissolve the marriage, and the Wagners presented custody paperwork to Tabby. She signed it, believing that it specified that she would share custody of her son with George, but in reality, the custody agreement gave full control to George. Tabby was devastated, but the Wagners had money and lawyers, so she felt powerless to do anything about it. Angela basically became Bolvine's mom at that point. Tabby would later share her experience with Hannah May Rodin, who had a child with Jake Wagner then later broke up with him. Tabby wanted to warn Hannah may to be sure that she wasn't tricked in the same way that Tabby had been Wow.

41:59 Jake and Hannah May met in the summer of twenty ten, when Jake was not quite eighteen and Hannah was just thirteen. They were introduced by a mutual friend at the Pike County Fair, where Hannah May was enthusiastically showing her fluffy white bunny. Despite the age difference, the two started dating. That does not qualify for the half plus seven rule, does it. I'm not really familiar. I vaguely remember. Basically, that specifies how young of a person you care allowed to date. You take half of your age and add seven, and that's the youngest person you were allowed to date. So if you were thirty, you would be allowed to date a twenty two year old. If you're eighteen, you would only be allowed to date a sixteen year old. It seems a little arbitrary, but I guess he's a pretty good rule of them. It was first love for both of them. After two years together, Hannah May and Jake started planning a future together. They set a wedding date. Got she's fifteen, and they set a wedding date. Uh huh. They got matching wedding ring tattoos on their left fingers and decided they wanted to have kids right away. Hannah May moved into the Wagner's home to live with Jake and his family. She felt warmly welcomed and became part of the family. Hannah May got pregnant at sixteen and gave birth to a girl, Sophia, in November twenty thirteen. Hannah May adored her little girl, and Jake was a hands on dad who was protective of Sophia and would play with her for hours at a time. With lots of family support from both the road In and Wagner households, Hannah went back to high school while Jake

43:30 got a job working with his dad as a truck driver. Over time, though, Hannah May started seeing another side of Jake and the Wagner family. She and Jake were very different. She was outgoing and social and wanted to be active, while Jake was more of a homebody. At first, she liked the challenge of taking him out of his comfort zone, but over time she decided he was boring. He became controlling, telling Hannah May that what she could and couldn't do, who she could talk to, and where she could go. Oh. Hannah May wanted to finish school and work, but Jake wanted her to be a housewife just like his mom. Angelo was another problem. She wanted to be more involved in Sophia's life than a typical grandma.

44:13 She wanted to run the show and acted like she was Sophia's mom, just as she'd done with George and Tabby's son Bulvin. This wasn't okay with Hannah May, but seemed just fine by Jake. As time went on, Jake started getting violent when he and Hannah May would fight, kicking indoors and grabbing her by the throat. In April twenty fifteen, Hannah May decided she was done. She broke it off with Jake and took Sophia back home with her. She and Jake made a verbal agreement to share custody. He would keep her for a week, then Hannah May would have her for a week. Jake wasn't happy about the whole thing. He didn't want to break up in the first place and held out hope for getting back together. In May twenty fifteen, Hannah May started dating Charlie Gilly. Charlie was best friends with her brother Frankie, who was engaged to Charlie's sister, Hannah Gilly. Charlie fell for Hannah May quickly, but the relationship only lasted for about three months.

45:09 At some point that summer, while she was still seeing Charlie. Hannah May fell for another local guy, Cory Holdren. At the same time, her relationship with Jake hadn't fully ended either. They were seeing each other off and on, but Jake was crushed when he learned that Hannah May had started dating Corey. He felt like she wasn't giving him a chance and he couldn't understand why. In July twenty fifteen, Hannah May posted on Facebook some song lyrics by a song by Minnie Finn called It's Your Time domestic violence quote. He slowly isolates her from all her friends. She works really hard, but he takes all the ends. He's not giving emails and screen in the calls.

45:52 Just when she gets up, he makes sure that she falls. He slowly isolates it from all the little friends. She worked very hall. Woody takes all the hands. He's out every night. If she goes out, she's oh. It's to the point she stays home to avoid war. It's not about love, it's power and control. She's mixed up wooded coward. Why you got no soul? Benigo. That is a genre of music that I never knew existed, called redneck hip hop. Yeah, hey, catchy, it's not bad, hannahme, I mean, it's it's good that artists are making songs like that and putting the word out that domestic violence hurts a lot of people. Definitely. Hannah Mae ended the post with her own words, quote end domestic violence, Live a happier life. End quote. We don't know for sure whether she was talking about Jake, Charlie, or Corey, or none of the above, but based on what we know of her relationship with Jake and his abuse, it seems likely that she was alluding to him. In August twenty fifteen, Hannah Mae found out she was pregnant again.

47:04 She didn't know whether the father was Charlie, Corey, or Jake. Jake decided that the baby must be his, which gave him some hope that Hannah May would take him back. He told her that he would be happy to be there for the birth and offered to help with anything she needed. He and his mom, Angela, bought a crib and other things for the baby, but Hannah May had no interest in getting back together with Jake. Hannah ma gave birth to a second baby, a girl named Kylie, on April seventeenth, twenty sixteen, just five days before she was killed. She didn't list a father on the birth certificate, so she had no idea at that point. I don't believe she knew before that. Though, the Wagners decided they needed to get full custody of two and a half year old Sophia, Angela became convinced that Sophia was endangered at the road and household. They didn't want Sophia in daycare, and they thought she was going to be kidnapped.

47:58 Why would they think that. We'll learn more about this in a bit, But I think the Wagner family, and especially Angela just she saw abuse everywhere, even if it wasn't there. Okay, Well, they decided that Sophia was being sexually abused at the Rodent household with no proof. I'm guessing. Angela would later claim that when Sophia was at the Wagner's house, they noticed that her crotch was very red and irritated. She also claimed that Sophia was having behavioral issues after being at the Rodents for a week, she would be grouchy and didn't want to be alone. A couple of weeks prior to the birth of Kylie, Jake and his father Billy brought over some custody papers and asked Hannah May to sign, but she refused. As we mentioned earlier, Hannah May had been talking to Tabitha, who told her how she had been tricked into signing an agreement to turn over custody of her son to George.

48:52 This apparently wasn't the first attempt at getting Hannah May to sign custody papers. A few months earlier, in December twenty fifteen, she had messages a friend on Facebook saying quote, no, I won't sign custody papers. Ever, it won't happen. They'll have to kill me first end quote. As the custody battle became contentious, Jake made comments to a couple of friends that he was going to kill Hannah May. No one took him seriously, though, they seemed to think he was just blowing off steam. One week after the murders, Jake and his family filed for custody of both Sophia and Kylie. He still didn't know whether he was Kylie's father, but he was convinced that he was. He argued that even if he wasn't, he should at least have partial custody so that Sophia and Kylie could spend time together. The fact that Jake filed these papers within a week of Hannah May's death was eye opening for investigators. Normally, it takes months, if not a year, to put together this kind of paperwork. It was almost like the family was expecting the opportunity to arise. Oh these people, don't they like to have their They are very controlling. I think that is the key theme, especially with Angela and Jake, as they liked to have control of everything. Aside from all the circumstantial evidence that was starting to point to the Wagner family, investigators were able to make progress on the bloody shoeprints found at one of the crime scenes. If you recall, there were two different sized shoeprints, which

50:22 led investigators to believe that there were at least two perpetrators. The lab was able to identify that the shoes were sizes ten and a half and eleven, and the treads showed nowhere at all, indicating that they were brand new. Did someone go out and buy new shoes just for the purpose of committing this crime? Forensic technicians visited local stores looking for shoes that matched the treads, and sure enough, they hit on an exact match at Walmart. This particular shoe was sold exclusively at Walmart, which narrowed things down further, but still they had no idea when the shoes had been sold, so this avenue ran into a dead end for now. Anyway, I think we've had a lot of cases with Walmart involved, have Walmart s. Walmart is big there, everywhere, everywhere. At the time, Mike DeWine asked the public for more information about the Wagner family. The investigation was a year old. Mike DeWine still wouldn't share details, but he told the press quote, we are still running things down, we are still learning things. Justice will be done end quote. He said that the investigation had followed up on eight hundred and eighty three tips, conducted four hundred and sixty five interviews, executed thirty eight search warrants, and performed sixty cyber extractions. Woh, that is a ton of work. Yeah, for sure. The Rodents were getting impatient and frustrated, especially because investigators had taken into custody the three trailers and one camper where the victims had all lived. The trailers and camper were hauled to an outdoor lot

51:57 surrounded by a fence, a lot that was an especially secure by the way, which would cause a bit of a scandal later when the press exposed this fact. But the Rodents were upset because the trailers and the camper contained all of the family's belongings, photo albums, baby toys, quilts made by Chris Senior's mom, Geneva. The items had sentimental value to the family and would have helped them grieve, but everything was stowed away for all this time. The Wagners must have been starting to feel the heat by this time as well. In May twenty seventeen, Billy Angela George and his son Bolvin Jake and his daughter Sophia packed up their things and the whole family moved to Alaska.

52:39 Although this looked suspicious, friends of the Wagners knew that they had long talked about moving there. It was their dream. Not only that, but the pastor from their church, who had been important to their family, had moved up there and started a new church that would welcome the family into its congregation. The move actually helped Investigators because while the Wagoners sold their property and piked in, they left behind a ton of their stuff. Investigators asked for and were granted permission from the new owners to look through everything. After going through tens of thousands of items, investigators hit pay dirt. They found a receipt from Walmart dated shortly before the murders that included two pairs of shoes size ten and a half and eleven, purchased for the low low price of thirteen dollars and ninety seven cents each. What that's a bargain? I know they were the same type of shoes that the team had identified from their treads. So they sold their property and moved to Alaska, but left behind their belongings, left behind tens of thousands of items. Yeah, I have no explanation for why they did that or why the people that bought their property were okay with that. They weren't just renting, they sold it. As far as I know, that was what I read. Yes, you would think that they would have gotten rid of the never mind, discovery of the Walmart receipt with the shoes allowed the investigators to go back to Walmart because now they have the date, and luckily Walmart must keep their surveillance footage for a long time because

54:10 who did they see? Clear as day on video buying those shoes none other than Angela Wagner. Soon after moving to Alaska, Jake Wagner met a girl named Elizabeth Armor at church. Elizabeth had grown up very sheltered in a Mennonite community before she decided to escape that lifestyle and start a new life for herself by moving to Alaska. The two fell in love and got married in March twenty eighteen. Beth didn't know anything about the murder investigation or the suspicious cloud hanging over Jake and the rest of the Wagners. She did find out about it eventually, but their pastor assured her that the accusations against the Wagners were just slander. Beth wanted to be a mother to Sophia, but as she would later say, she ended up marrying her worst nightmare. Angela hated the idea of Jake marrying Elizabeth. In her mind, she was Sophia's mother figure and didn't want anyone else taking her place. Here's a short clip which investigators got through a wiretap, where Angela is arguing with Jake about this. Oh, let's see her, mommy, I'm her grandmother. Beth bore than me and she breathed for me, and I'm just her grandmother. You're not her mother, You are her grandmother. She sounds like a lovely lady, doesn't she. She sounds like a nightmare. Yeah. Just like with Hannah May and with George's former wife, Tabitha, Beth started experiencing the controlling ways of Angela and Jake herself. Beth told Jake that she had been abused as a

55:45 child, so Jake forbade her to contact her family. He also demanded to have all the passwords for her phone, email, bank accounts, and so on, without evidence. Angela accused Beth of touching Sophia inappropriately and convinced George that she had done so. George then tried to convince his brother that this was happening as well. Here's another clip from the wiretap where George is trying to convince Jake you would not my life? What you so? Yeah?

56:25 What George said? Your daughter's probably being molested and you believe a frickin horror over her. And then Jake responds, what you will not insult my wife? And then George says something like you're too bleeping blind by the freaking demon she's put behind you. This is interesting. Like this family, they're very tight knit, but they obviously argue a lot with each other as well and have a lot of conflicts within the family. Beth later said that Jake quote laid it out very clearly to me that if I had done it, that the right thing to do would be to create Lucille, which I don't know if you remember, but the baseball bat from the Walking Dead with the barbed wire wrapped around it, and string me up in the barn, beat me to death with the baseball bat, bulldoze the barn, burn it down, and hunt down and kill my family unplayed is yeah. And if he didn't do it, he said his mom would. Soon after this threat was issued, Elizabeth called a friend in Alaska and asked for help escaping from the family because she was convinced that Jake would end up murdering her. After a year in Alaska, the Wagners decided to move back to Pike County. Financially, it wasn't a good move for them because it was harder finding work. If they moved back, George and Jake could get jobs with the trucking company that they had worked for before. Investigators were obviously narrowing in on the family by this time, but they needed details. They didn't know who specifically was involved in planning and carrying out the killings. Was it just one of them acting

57:57 alone or were they all in on it? And who actually did the shooting. The investigative team got winned that the Wagoners were planning to return to Ohio. They decided to have the family stopped by federal authorities at the Montana border and questioned them. Billy would not agree to talk at all. George and Jake spoke with investigators, but they denied any involvement in the murder of the Rodents without providing any additional detail. Angela spoke with investigators and they asked her if she normally bought shoes and socks for George and Jake. She said no, they bought their own shoes and socks. Then they confronted her with the Walmart receipt and told her they had her on video buying the shoes. She said, well, I guess I must have bought them. They asked what happened to the shoes, and she said George and Jake threw them away because they said the shoes looked like old man shoes. The interrogator said he wasn't buying it, and at that point Angela said, I'm done talking. You can talk to my attorney if you have any other questions. And I think that as where were we going to end part one of this story? What do you think so far? It's a mess. It is a mess.

59:07 Why do you think they moved back to piked In from Alaska? Like that's such a major move. Yeah, well, I think, like I said in the story, I think it was partly was financial. They couldn't really make ends meet. Yeah, well they were in Alaska and they knew they had jobs waiting for them back in piked In, and it was you know, where they were from and where they were comfortable. So yeah, just financially, it must have been super expensive to move back and forth and they left all it must have purchased new belongings in Alaska, and I just I guess, yeah, don't. I don't know what stuff they left in piked In at their old house. It might have just been you know, a bunch of junk or you know, things like that. But yeah, it didn't seem like a very good move. We'll be sure to come back next week for part two, and if you would like to hear part two right now, you can join us on Patreon at patreon dot com slash Love Mary Kill dollars a month for early ad free access and a monthly bonus episode.

1:00:04 Wait, so if I joined Patreon dot com Love Mary Kill, do I not have to record episode two with you? That will be magically bear AD free offer does not apply to you. I'm so sorry. Would you record an episode without me? I do it all the time. Didn't you know you do it? Wouldn't be surprised, You're so sneaky. I think you would probably hear about it from one of our listeners. They'd be like, this episode was so fad, is it? You know? People want different things from podcasts. Some people like a solo hosted podcast. Some people don't want to hear me blaberon and I totally understand. I mean, listen to what gives you joy, right right? So, there is a line in your your episode about old man chose one of arguments we ever had, which looking back, was so stupid. You know what I'm talking about? Of course I know the old man's shoe argument. How can I not know that?

1:01:06 Because we've really only had, I mean, in our million years together, a handful of really bad arguments. I would say this was pretty early. This was early because you were young. You were still in your twenties. Was it before we were married? It was either right, I don't know, but I remember you were like he was, I don't know, twenties. I bought a pair of shoes. You bought a pair of Rockport because I wanted walking shoeses. I wanted a pair of shoes for walking, walk and get exercise. I was really maybe like, those are old man's shoes. I was like, they're comfortable shoes, and I want comfortable shoes for walks, like Nikes are pretty comfortable, like Port. Oh that's yeah. It turned into a pretty bad fight. Well, I think even at this age you would like, I'm not buying Rockport walking. Would you at this age if they were comfortable? Of course I would. To me, that is the most important thing when you're buying a pair of shoes for exercise.

1:01:59 It's how come like they were for exercise? You were wearing them when you know we went out or something they were for I bought them specifically for walking. I'm sure you were wearing them at other times too, and I was probably like twenty three and I was like, I'm not hanging out with a guy who was wearing rock port walking shoes. I have since given up with you and fashion, but it's a while to get you to give up. But I know I haven't really given up. I think you are. I mean, you buy all my clothes, so I really have no I don't really you kind of have uniforms like we have. But anyway, I'm not picking on you. You're a lovely man and you're very handsome, like you're picking on me. I mean I was pick on you for this. It's not like I have. I don't mind major fashion plates. Oh you are a fashion icon. I mean, I wouldn't say before we go, we should tell our viewers about a documentary. We've been watching a true crime documentary. A lot of people have probably seen it because it's really well known, but on Hulu, and it is about Sherry Peppini. Cherry Peppini, I want to say Panini, but it's Puppini. Yes, she's a nightmare, total nightmare. The good thing about it is no one gets killed in the story. True we were going to cover. I started working on it, and then I thought, well, I don't know how people heard this story too much, but you had never heard of it. I I it sounded familiar, but I didn't remember anything about it. But it was a really really, it's really well done interesting story. Yeah. I don't know how much. You don't want to reveal a whole lot, but she is a nightmare. Yeah, something wrong, because it's doubly subscruously something wrong up

1:03:32 there in her head. Well, you watched the last part without me because I was busy working on something, and yeah, so I don't want but I know you kind of know how it happens yet, Yeah, you were happy with the whole I would definitely recommend it. It was very well done documentary and it was interesting like they had people who are very close to her were interviewed in the documentary, including her sister and her husband at the time, and so it was really you got to hear a very close perspective of her and kind of her mentality, which made it really interesting. So highly recommended. Yeah, Well, thank you so much for listening and hanging out with us for this hour. Please rate, review, follow and subscribe, find us on social media, or send us an email at lovemarykill at gmail dot com. And I would say we love getting your emails. We've said it before, but we really do. And if you go to Instagram or Facebook, we will be posting pictures of this case. I think, especially because there's so many people, it'll be easier to keep it straight. Yeah, probably a good idea, just to look at the pictures while you're listening.

1:04:38 Yeah, And I had to google Angela Wagner to see what she looked like because she is a real piece of work. She is a piece of work. Until next time, don't kill your husband and don't kill your wife. To complete the compu