March 23, 2026

The Whitaker Family

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In December 2003 in Sugar Land, Texas, the Whitaker family had a special celebratory dinner for their son’s impending college graduation but the night ended in unthinkable tragedy. Two of the four family members were brutally gunned down in front of their home while the other two sustained serious wounds. What initially appeared to be an interrupted burglary, unraveled into a sinister betrayal. As investigators dug deeper into the crime, they uncovered a yearslong murder plot involving deception, a lost son’s search for vengeance, and a father’s unlikely forgiveness. This is the unforgettable story of the Whitaker family.

Today's snack: Baked Browned Butter Churro Bars with Melted Chocolate

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WEBVTT

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Hi, I'm Tina and I'm Rich. If there's one thing

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we've learned in over twenty years of marriage, it's.

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That some days you'll feel like killing your.

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Wife, and some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

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Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina.

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How are you?

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I am doing good? How are you?

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I am great? It is Thursday, March nineteen at four

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o'clock when we are recording this, and I know there's

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something that you're dying to talk about.

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Well, March madness has begun.

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And they don't call it madness for nothing, don't.

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My bracket was busted after the very first game. I

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think a lot of people's were as well.

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But that doesn't mean that you still can't pick the

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winner at the end.

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That's right.

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You gave me an update that we'll talk about at

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the end. I know some people don't care. We had

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a lot of people like I don't know what a

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bracket is. If I did, i'd participate. So sorry we're

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talking about this again.

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We did have a lot of people sign up, which.

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We did it. We were so happy to see that.

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Yeah, it's gonna be a lot of fun.

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Am I glowing today?

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You actually are glowing today?

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Am I really you look very nice?

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Yeah, your face looks really fresh and glowing, and.

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Well before we started, I told you how handsome you

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looked today. But do you want to tell everyone what

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we've been doing? I bought you for Valenti's Day.

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I'm not even sure.

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I buy my husband a gift that really for me?

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Is it?

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It's called an anti aging mask or red light therapy

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red light therapy mask. Yeah, so we've both been wearing

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this goofy mask with these bright red lights on it,

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and I don't know if it's working or not, but

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you do. You do look very nice. Face looks grape.

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Sorry for laughing, It was just the way you said

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that my face looks great. I have noticed a difference.

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I know everyone's going to ask. I got the we got.

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I got the Omnilux for rich, but I did buy

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the mens because I wanted. I did want you to

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use it for real, and I did hear that it

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has a little more power to it. And I've been

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using it every other day and it's not like I

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look fifteen years younger.

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But I do feel probably ten.

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I feel like my skin looks brighter and healthier, and

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I feel like yours does too. For real? Yeah?

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Cool, I never I don't. I don't really look at myself,

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so I'll take your word for it.

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So I wish this was a plug. I wish I

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could give you a coupont code, but no, we're still

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working on getting those red sponsors. Will be so excited

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when that something happens. Well, part of it is we

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have to put the work in and we just don't

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have time to seek out advertisers right now, but we'll

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get there. Do you have anything you want to rant

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about other than the NCAA tournament.

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Not really, I'm pretty I'm pretty happy right now.

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Okay, Well, I'm glad that that freeze up gives you

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some time. So we talked a few months ago about

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you wearing socks to bed, right then? Oh yeah, what

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do I get to say next?

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Well, what happens is my feet get cold, I wear

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the socks to bed. Then the middle of the night,

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I wake up and my feet are warm, and I

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slide them off and they fall down on the floor

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and then I forget about them, and then what happens.

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I guess you must pick them up.

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Yeah, yeah, you're a really good partner and really not

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not much. You're not messy at all. Like you're not

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as tidy as you could be, but you're not messy.

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And you've never made me pick up like socks and

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under we're always good about getting in the hamper, and

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so now when I have to pick up socks, I'm like, oh,

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it's just kind of gross to pick up.

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So it happens in the middle of that. I always

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tell myself, make sure you pick those up in the

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morning when you go, when you get up, and I

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always forget.

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Yeah, I've noticed, it's fine, it's all right, it's just

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it's fine. It's just happened a lot recently and it

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just makes me laugh. But then it makes me also.

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Well, luckily the weather it's starting to get warmer, so

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I think I will be shedding the socks at night.

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I think spring is spring, and we had our like

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our third what do you call it, like false spring

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or whatever, and so now it might be real spring.

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I think you think.

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Yeah, a lot of people were wondering about how much

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snow we got, because recently there are a lot of

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pictures that you saw of like people not being able

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to open their doors. That wasn't us, Yeah, that was.

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Again.

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Yeah, we haven't had snow really shovel wle snow for

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a couple months.

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Probably, Yeah, I think we're done.

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But they were pretty up north. They were pretty bad, brutal. Yeah,

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are you ready for a snack? So yesterday we were

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supposed to record and you weren't feeling great and you

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had a meeting run Lane, so we're like, oh, we'll

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just put it off, and you were like, I smell something.

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It smelled really good.

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Yeah, and it was really good, but it didn't bring

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you any because you told me you didn't want it.

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But I made churo shortbread cookies with chocolate dipping sauce.

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I've made them for a Patreon episode before. But they're

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really I would say one of our favorites, but I

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say that about a record. They're really yummy. We'll make

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sure that we post the recipe.

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Yeah. I love cinnamon. I'm on a big cinnamon kick

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right now, as you know. And they were really, really yummy.

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Because of our new toaster, I promise we're going to

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wrap this up in just a second, because of some

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people have asked about the toaster, and I have mixed

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reviews about the Smeg. How about you the.

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Only thing I don't like about it is there's no

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indicator of how much how long is left.

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It's very analog, and another one was more digital and

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you could tell like how which time you had to

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like cook your egg or whatever it was before the

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toast popped up. Now it's all a mystery.

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That's my only complaint though.

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I feel like it's not as even, like sometimes one

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side is less toastier than the other. So I would

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probably give it a three point two out of five

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because it's just not as consistent beautiful. I mean, she

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is a beautiful toaster. She shines up nicely.

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It's like as like an old car, like a nineteen fifties.

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Last thing, what would you rate the cinnamon Churo cookies.

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Oh?

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I would give them a ten out of ten.

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Yeah, so definitely if you like that kind of thing,

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I recommend it.

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And we will post the recipe.

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Yeah.

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One part toast tip is I bought the and you

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don't think you need this, but from King Arthur Flower

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big a fan of all their products. I bought their

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cinnamon sugar and I think that's why you're on the

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cinnamon sugar toast kick, because it's really good. It's like

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called like better than cinnamon sugar or something like that. Interesting,

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And that's what's in the little shaker in the kitchen. Okay,

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so is that what you've been using?

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Yeah, but I just made some more because we ran out,

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so I didn't I didn't know you had that. I

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made it from scratch with cinnamon and sugar. How did

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you do that?

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For my whole life, I've been like, that's ridiculous. Why

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does anyone need to buy cinnamon sugar? Because all you

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do is but the King Arthur flower. I don't know.

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It's just lighter and I don't know if they hear

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it might be powdered sugar in it. But it's just

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really good. So like, okay, anyway, we're going on way

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too long. Let's get to the case, all right. I

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have an interesting case for you today. It is about

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the Whittaker family, and our friend Kylie from Prime Time

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Crying with a K recommended this case. Kylie always recommends

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just really good cases to us, So thank you so much,

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Kylie for the recommendation. Any quotations, unless otherwise noted, are

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from Ken Whittaker's book Murder By Family, The Incredible story

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of a son's treachery and a father's forgiveness. On December tenth,

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two thousand three, the Whittakers, a family of four, were

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returning from a pleasant family dinner at Papadou, a Cajun

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seafood restaurant, celebrating their son, Bart's imminent college graduation from

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sam Houston State. They'd presented him with a Rolex watch

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at dinner for his perseverance and hard work. To top

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off the dinner, Bart twenty three, was served his favorite dessert,

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red pudding, the rim of the plate decorated in chocolate

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sauce spelling out congratulations. Art's younger brother, Kevin nineteen, a

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sophomore at Texas A and M, was also at the dinner.

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Home for Christmas break also present or the proud parents,

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Tricia fifty one and Kent fifty five. Before they left

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for dinner, they'd wrapped their arms around each other and

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smiled happily for what would be their final family photo

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in front of their fireplace. When Tricia opened the front

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door to their home in Sugarland, Texas, the house was

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completely dark. As she fumbled to turn on a light,

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she was shocked to see a man standing in the

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threshold dotting a ski mask a gun poised at her

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and her family. Her husband Kent, heard her say oh no,

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before four gunshots ring out into the night. It's shocking

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how fast the human brain can process information even as

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its experiencing unimaginable horror. Kent braced himself for the possibility

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of his own death and silently bargained with God to

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take his life and spare his wife and two sons.

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As Kevin and Kent both hit the ground. Shot Are

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twenty three, who had been lagging behind to retrieve his

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cell phone from his car, darted into the house and

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wrestled with the shooter until he was also shot in

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the arm before the shooter fled out the back door.

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Kent woke moments later, hearing sirens in the distance. Art

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called nine one one from his cell phone. A neighbor

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heard the shots and called nine one one too. The

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Whittaker's friend and neighbor, Cliff, wrapped his own t shirt

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around the gunshot wound to Kent's arm to stanch the bleeding.

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Don't worry, buddy, help is on the way, Cliff reassured Kent.

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Soon when emergency vehicles filled the Whittaker's cul de sac.

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As the first responders arrived at the scene. Kent's mind

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was fuzzy as e MT's knelt down to tend to

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his family. When he heard someone say do away, his

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spokes sharpened. One of his family members were dead, or

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were all of them. He heard the whirring of helicopter

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blades nearby as a life flight landed. Someone told him

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that the chopper was for Trisha and one was coming

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for him. No one told him Bart or Kevin's fates.

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As Kent was loaded onto a waiting chopper, he shivered relentlessly,

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his body and shock. Thankfully, it was only eight minutes

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to the Texas Medical Center, a level when trauma hospital

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in nearby Houston. Moments later, Bart was brought into the

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trauma room alongside him as the doctors and nurses attended

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to them. They'd both suffered broken arms, requiring surgery, Kent

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to his right and Bart to his left. They both

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were expected to make a full recovery. Kent's parents arrived

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shortly after. He'd gleaned enough from the conversation buzzing around

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him among the chaos that Tricia and Kevin were likely dead,

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but no one would confirm his suspicions, He asked his mother,

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and she couldn't say the words. Instead, she nodded her

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head slightly. Ken's wife of twenty eight years, Tricia, and

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his son were both dead. The nightmare that had just

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shattered his family was only beginning.

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Such a chilling scene. Just that whole idea of walking

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into your front door and coming upon something like that.

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It's just a place where you feel safe. And they

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had an alarm system too, so interesting. I think she

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was just shocked that this was happening. Yeah, they all were. Sugarland, Texas,

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sits about twenty miles southwest of Houston and Fort Ben County.

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Once a company town built around the massive Imperial Sugar

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refinery that gave the city its name, it had grown

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into one of the Regent's most affluent suburbs. By the

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early two thousands, the refinery had closed and Sugarland had

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fully transformed into a master planned community of tree lined streets,

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golf courses, and top rated schools, the kind of place

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families moved poor stability and opportunity. When the Whittakers settled

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00:11:06.840 --> 00:11:09.679
there in the early nineteen eighties, the population was about

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00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:12.600
fifteen thousand. Today, it has grown till more than one

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hundred thousand, and it's consistently ranked among the safest cities

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00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:19.879
in Texas, with a crime rate well below the national average.

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When the Whittakers were gunned down outside their home, the

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news stunned the community and set ripples of shock and

245
00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:29.840
fear through the quiet suburb. They were convinced a crazed

246
00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:33.320
murderer was on the loose. Everyone who knew the Whittakers

247
00:11:33.320 --> 00:11:37.080
in Sugarland, Texas described them the same way, good hearted

248
00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:41.039
and welcoming, the kind of family people gravitated towards. Their

249
00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:44.399
beautiful home was a gathering place, especially for teenagers, where

250
00:11:44.399 --> 00:11:47.639
their kids' friends came and went freely, thinking of Tricia

251
00:11:47.639 --> 00:11:51.360
and Kent as surrogate parents. After the shooting, a friend

252
00:11:51.360 --> 00:11:54.919
told the Houston Chronicle, anybody who knows them just loves them.

253
00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:58.639
They were the most generous, gracious people you could want

254
00:11:58.679 --> 00:12:02.279
to know. Trishia went a beloved kindergarten teacher before becoming

255
00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:04.799
a stay at home mom and part time substitute teacher.

256
00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:10.000
Kent worked as controller for Tricia's family's large, successful construction company.

257
00:12:10.279 --> 00:12:12.399
The two had met on a blind date and quickly

258
00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:15.919
bonded over their shared faith. On June twenty eighth, nineteen

259
00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:20.039
seventy five, Tricia twenty three, married Kent twenty six, and

260
00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:24.320
they spent twenty eight years together. Thomas Bartlett Whittaker, better

261
00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:27.799
known as Bart, was born on December thirty first, nineteen

262
00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:32.080
seventy nine, and Kevin Michael was born on March nineteenth,

263
00:12:32.200 --> 00:12:36.240
nineteen eighty four. Bartlett was Trisha's family name, so that's

264
00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:39.279
where Bart came from. Bart was described as a smart,

265
00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:43.039
athletic son, while Kevin was outgoing and popular. Kent said

266
00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:45.799
with pride that he'd never known anyone with a heart

267
00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:48.720
more like Jesus than his son Kevin. His faith was

268
00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:51.440
important to him, but less so for Bart, who was

269
00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:54.279
more concerned with his image. Kevin looked up to his

270
00:12:54.279 --> 00:12:56.879
big brother, but Bart seemed to envy the ease at

271
00:12:56.919 --> 00:12:59.919
which Kevin went through the world. Kevin had a magnetic

272
00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:03.480
personality and made friends easily, something that never came as

273
00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:06.399
easily to Bart. Tricia and Kent were deeply involved in

274
00:13:06.440 --> 00:13:09.759
their son's lives. Trisha volunteered at their schools, while Kent

275
00:13:09.879 --> 00:13:12.720
coach their sports teams. Their parents showed up for Bart

276
00:13:12.759 --> 00:13:16.279
and Kevin's activities and spent years building traditions with their sons,

277
00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:20.159
family vacations, game nights, and church functions. One of those

278
00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:25.159
traditions became cycling. After a neighbor was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis,

279
00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:27.759
the Whittakers began writing to raise money for the cause.

280
00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:31.279
Kent and Bart participated in the MS one point fifty,

281
00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:34.759
a two day ride from Houston to Austin, benefiting the

282
00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:38.720
National Multiple Sclerosis Society. They did the race together at

283
00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:41.799
least ten times. Over the years. The two logged more

284
00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:45.879
than twenty four thousand miles riding together, roughly the circumference

285
00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:48.159
of the earth. Giving back was part of who the

286
00:13:48.159 --> 00:13:51.679
Whittakers were. They supported multiple charities and were known in

287
00:13:51.720 --> 00:13:54.519
their community and church not just for this success, but

288
00:13:54.600 --> 00:13:57.600
for their generosity. I read a lot of things about

289
00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:00.000
the Whittakers, and I watched a lot of different diets

290
00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:04.200
documentaries about them. But Kent, on multiple occasions would say

291
00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:07.519
different numbers. We rode twelve thousand miles together, we rode

292
00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:10.759
twenty thousand miles together. So the biggest number I thought

293
00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:12.000
was twenty four thousand.

294
00:14:12.440 --> 00:14:14.679
So whatever the number, it's a lot of mind, it's

295
00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:17.320
a lot of miles. The Whitakers had long been seen

296
00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:22.000
as one of Sugarland's most respected families, good kids, loving parents,

297
00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:26.200
and ardent churchgoers invested in their community. But before Bart's

298
00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:29.240
senior year of high school, that image cracked. Bart and

299
00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:32.240
several friends broke into the high school through the skylights,

300
00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:36.600
repelling from the ceiling and stealing computers on seven occasions.

301
00:14:36.679 --> 00:14:40.799
I know that sounds crazy, copelling from the ceiling.

302
00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:43.240
But it sounds like Mission impossible exactly.

303
00:14:43.279 --> 00:14:44.399
I think that's what they were doing.

304
00:14:44.759 --> 00:14:47.960
Bart later described it as nothing more than a stupid prank,

305
00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:51.279
saying they planned to return the equipment. But for Tricia,

306
00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:54.960
the arrest was devastating. She was deeply embarrassed and sank

307
00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:58.440
into a depression. Convinced the whole town was talking about them,

308
00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:01.519
and personally, she under where she had gone wrong as

309
00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:04.519
a mother. She stopped visiting the stores she had always

310
00:15:04.519 --> 00:15:08.080
gone to, driving to neighboring towns instead, just to avoid

311
00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:11.639
running into anyone she knew. I can understand her embarrassment

312
00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:13.919
as a parent, but that seems like a somewhat extreme

313
00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:16.879
reaction to, you know, start shopping in a neighboring town

314
00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:19.080
because you don't want to run into people, and you know.

315
00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:22.440
You're not a woman, So you don't understand. Maybe I

316
00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:25.679
don't think I would be that embarrassed because kids will

317
00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:25.879
be there.

318
00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:27.399
Yeah, that's right, I guess that's what I'm saying.

319
00:15:27.399 --> 00:15:29.080
But I mean he did do it on at least

320
00:15:29.080 --> 00:15:32.320
seven different occasions, and I'm not sure how many computers

321
00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:35.799
they were. They never sold them. I'm not sure where

322
00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:38.200
they kept them, but he gave them back eventually.

323
00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:41.919
Yeah. After being expelled from Clement's High School, Bart was

324
00:15:41.960 --> 00:15:46.399
court ordered to undergo psychiatric evaluation. The doctor identified an

325
00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:51.039
underlying mental illness with psychotic symptoms, suggesting that Bart might

326
00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:55.360
also be experiencing delusional paranoid disorder, which she noted was

327
00:15:55.399 --> 00:15:59.120
being exacerbated by drug use at the time. She recommended

328
00:15:59.159 --> 00:16:03.519
continuing treatment and medication rather than just receiving disciplinary action

329
00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:07.279
from his parents. The doctor suggested that Bart manipulated her

330
00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:10.440
to write a favorable report so he could be reinstated

331
00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:11.639
to Clement's High school.

332
00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:14.000
I forgot to say this at the beginning, but I

333
00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:17.639
read Kent Whittaker Bart's dad's book as one of my

334
00:16:17.720 --> 00:16:20.679
primary sources, and a lot of these things he did

335
00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:24.159
not mention, or did not mention in great detail. He

336
00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:28.799
didn't mention that he was diagnosed with this possible psychological disorder,

337
00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:32.279
and he talked about the computer incident but played it

338
00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:33.159
down quite a bit.

339
00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:35.440
O he was like in denial a little bit about

340
00:16:35.480 --> 00:16:36.879
these things. He was embarrassed.

341
00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:39.240
We'll talk about that morekus the case goes out, and

342
00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:41.240
I'll try to point out the things that he left out,

343
00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:42.919
because I think they're really telling okay.

344
00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:46.919
Bart was not reinstated and instead transferred to a private

345
00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:49.919
Christian school for his senior year of high school. There

346
00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:53.080
were no other issues that year. With high school behind him,

347
00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:56.879
Bart attended Baylor University in Waco, Texas, about four hours

348
00:16:56.879 --> 00:17:00.519
from sugar Land. He majored in criminal justice. Things were

349
00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:02.960
going well until the end of his sophomore year, when

350
00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:05.960
the Sugarland police called the Whittaker's house in the middle

351
00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:08.559
of the night in April two thousand and one. They

352
00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:11.279
had been contacted by the Waco police that Bart was

353
00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:14.440
en route and intended to kill his family. The Whittakers

354
00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:18.319
were shocked and confused. It was certainly a misunderstanding, they thought.

355
00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:21.680
Over the next few days, police pieced together the events

356
00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:24.240
that led to the alert. Bart had argued with his

357
00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:26.759
roommate and a female friend who had come by the

358
00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:30.599
apartment while they were drinking and watching television loudly. During

359
00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:33.720
the argument, a segment about the Menenda's brothers came on

360
00:17:33.759 --> 00:17:37.559
the TV. Bart reportedly made a remark about how he'd

361
00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:40.079
have a better plan and wouldn't get caught if he

362
00:17:40.119 --> 00:17:43.400
were to kill his family. Alarmed, the young woman called

363
00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:46.839
the police, fearing that Bart might actually harm his family.

364
00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:50.599
The officers then contacted the Whittakers to warn them. When

365
00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:53.119
Bart learned he might be in trouble with the police again,

366
00:17:53.480 --> 00:17:57.920
he left Waco for two days, hoping to defuse the situation. Later,

367
00:17:58.079 --> 00:18:01.960
police concluded the incident was like a misunderstanding fueled by

368
00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:06.200
alcohol and tension between roommates and let it go. Years later,

369
00:18:06.359 --> 00:18:09.319
Kent realized that they should have taken this incident much

370
00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:12.839
more seriously, and it was one of Bart's many lies.

371
00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:17.960
So the Menendez brother's excuse was Bart's retelling of what happened,

372
00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:20.519
and that kind of calmed the police down a little bit.

373
00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:23.039
But I think there was more to that story.

374
00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:25.880
Well, the fact that this woman felt concerned enough to

375
00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:28.319
call the police, it had to be pretty serious. Ye.

376
00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:31.000
I don't know the whole story, but I know that

377
00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:31.680
he was lying.

378
00:18:32.119 --> 00:18:35.079
Before his third year of college, Bart transferred to Sam

379
00:18:35.119 --> 00:18:39.440
Houston University in Huntsville, Texas, about ninety minutes from sugar Land.

380
00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:42.799
While there, he lived in the family's lakehouse, which was

381
00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:44.319
about an hour from campus.

382
00:18:44.599 --> 00:18:46.240
I mentioned that just because I thought it was so

383
00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:48.559
weird that he was living in the lake house, which

384
00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:51.200
was at least fifty minutes from campus. Yeah, that is

385
00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:52.559
instead of living on campus.

386
00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:55.240
Super convenient. We'll be back after a break.

387
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:05.880
As the Sugarland police started their investigation into the shootings,

388
00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:09.039
they found no forced entry into the Whittakers' home. There

389
00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:12.680
were no white witnesses or fingerprints or forensic evidence left behind,

390
00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:17.200
but one latex glove was out found outside near the driveway.

391
00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:20.880
There's always one latex glove left, fine, isn't there seems

392
00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:23.599
to be. The city of Sugarland offered a ten thousand

393
00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:27.480
dollars reward. Friends and family of the Whittakers contributed an

394
00:19:27.559 --> 00:19:31.079
additional thirty thousand dollars, bringing the total reward money to

395
00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:32.559
forty thousand dollars.

396
00:19:32.839 --> 00:19:34.839
I ask you a quick question just to remind me.

397
00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:38.359
With the shooting, the shooter was inside the house and

398
00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:41.359
came out of the house or shot from.

399
00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:44.759
I think he was near the front door, okay, and

400
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:48.119
when Bart went into the house, he ran into the

401
00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:51.720
living room area. A couple of days after the incident,

402
00:19:51.799 --> 00:19:55.240
Detective Marshall Slot visited Kent in the hospital to fill

403
00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:58.279
him in on the progress of the investigation. He did

404
00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:01.160
not believe it was a burglary gone wrong. Nothing had

405
00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:04.279
been taken from the home, though drawers and doors had

406
00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:06.160
been opened to make it look like a break in.

407
00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:10.039
A clock nine millimeter handgun was found lying on the

408
00:20:10.119 --> 00:20:13.359
kitchen floor. Kevin had kept a gun safe hidden in

409
00:20:13.400 --> 00:20:16.160
the crawl space in his room. The gun safe had

410
00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:20.200
been pried open, and the gun inside was missing. How

411
00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:22.880
had the killer known exactly where to find the gun.

412
00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:26.599
Investigators later determined that the weapon used in the murders

413
00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:30.480
was Kevin's gun. I couldn't confirm this, but in a

414
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:33.559
lot of places I read that the gun was a

415
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:37.519
gift to Kevin from Bart, which I find kind of interesting.

416
00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:41.680
A search was conducted at the Whitaker's home. Investigators seized

417
00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:45.279
electronic devices, including computers and cell phones, as well as

418
00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:47.599
the clothing Kent and Bart had been wearing that night,

419
00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:51.240
but Bart's own home and vehicle were never thoroughly searched.

420
00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:54.960
He turned over two laptops while his desktop computer was

421
00:20:55.039 --> 00:20:59.920
left untouched. Detective Slot had some difficult news to deliver. Bart,

422
00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:02.400
the older son, the one who was about to graduate

423
00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:05.880
from sam Houston State, had not been enrolled at college

424
00:21:05.960 --> 00:21:09.039
that semester at all. He was not about to graduate.

425
00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:12.559
In fact, he was on academic probation and only had

426
00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:16.200
enough credits to qualify as a freshman with a GPA

427
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:18.000
of one point four one.

428
00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:21.160
Ooh, so, I guess being the lake House, being an

429
00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:23.640
hour away from campus wasn't such a big deal after

430
00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:25.279
all for him if he wasn't going to school.

431
00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:28.559
Kent's blood ran cold at the news. He wheeled himself

432
00:21:28.599 --> 00:21:30.839
down the hall to his son's hospital room to find

433
00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:34.279
him asleep. He woke him and angrily demanded, what were

434
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:38.440
you thinking? Bart apologized profusely. He said he'd taken the

435
00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:40.960
semester off to work and planned to finish his degree

436
00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:43.319
up in the spring. Do you have any idea what

437
00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:46.319
you've done? Thanks to this little lie about graduation? The

438
00:21:46.359 --> 00:21:49.960
police think you're a suspect. In fact, right now you

439
00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:52.839
seem to be their only suspect. You weren't in school.

440
00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:55.680
You told everyone you were graduating, and they think you

441
00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:58.160
were ranged to have us killed to cover it up.

442
00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:01.119
Can you see how stupid that was? Your lie has

443
00:22:01.160 --> 00:22:04.279
done the impossible. It has made Mom and Kevin's deaths

444
00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:07.920
even worse because the police now think you were involved.

445
00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:11.519
Do you have any idea how bad this is? Bart said, yeah,

446
00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:14.039
that's nuts. I didn't have anything to do with the shootings.

447
00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:16.759
I'm sorry about the lie. It just happened. I didn't

448
00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:19.279
mean to lie to you and Mom. I was just

449
00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:21.599
afraid of what you would say, and I didn't want

450
00:22:21.640 --> 00:22:25.680
to disappoint you. This will be okay. Kent was right.

451
00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:28.960
The police narrowed their suspicion on Bart, but his father

452
00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:32.079
was determined to help him and prove his innocence. He

453
00:22:32.200 --> 00:22:34.480
leaned heavily on his face to get him through this

454
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:38.160
impossibly dark time. But one thing that comforted him was

455
00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:40.640
that he had no doubt that Tricia and Kevin would

456
00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:44.039
enter heaven and he would join them one day. Remember,

457
00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:47.039
as I'm telling you this story, that Kent is an

458
00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:51.000
exceptionally religious man, and he obviously was upset about his

459
00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:54.519
son and his wife. But because you know, he had

460
00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:56.519
this vision of them being in heaven and they were

461
00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:59.400
safe now that he might not have had had as

462
00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:03.559
much green as other people would. If that sounds that is.

463
00:23:03.559 --> 00:23:06.880
An interesting point, like I wouldn't I wouldn't expect a

464
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:09.680
very religious person would have less grief, but they would

465
00:23:09.880 --> 00:23:12.440
probably feel like, well, they're in a better place, and

466
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:15.440
so they might take more comfort in that in knowing that.

467
00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:18.279
A few days before Christmas, the police asked Kent and

468
00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:20.279
Bart if they would come in for a light detector

469
00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:23.400
test to clear them in the investigation, and they agreed.

470
00:23:23.640 --> 00:23:25.799
Kent was happy to be able to clear their names,

471
00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:29.119
but the test was canceled and never rescheduled. I'm not

472
00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:32.119
sure why that happened. While Kent and Bart were recovering

473
00:23:32.119 --> 00:23:35.359
in the hospital, one of Bart's friends, Adam Hipp, contacted

474
00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:39.400
the Sugarland Police with troubling information. He told investigators that

475
00:23:39.480 --> 00:23:42.720
two years earlier, Bart had asked him to kill Tricia

476
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:46.240
and Kent, promising him a share of his inheritance. The

477
00:23:46.279 --> 00:23:49.200
plan was eerily similar to what had just happened. The

478
00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:51.440
family would be out to dinner, the shooter would lie

479
00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:53.839
in wait, and Bart would be shot in the arm

480
00:23:53.960 --> 00:23:56.799
to make it look real. At the last minute, Adam

481
00:23:56.880 --> 00:23:59.720
said he backed out. A variation of the plan involves

482
00:23:59.720 --> 00:24:02.680
said the lake house ablaze while Bart's family was there

483
00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:05.480
for a weekend, but Bart nixed the plan worried that

484
00:24:05.599 --> 00:24:08.200
they might be able to escape the fire and their

485
00:24:08.599 --> 00:24:12.000
deaths would not be guaranteed. Another murder plot had been

486
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:16.200
foiled in December two thousand. Bart had recruited two college friends,

487
00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:19.680
Will Anthony and Justin Peters to kill his parents, but

488
00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:22.599
the plan fell apart when Will tried to climb into

489
00:24:22.599 --> 00:24:26.400
the house through a bathroom window and accidentally triggered the alarm,

490
00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:30.000
scaring him off. Adam hip agreed to cooperate with the

491
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:32.200
police and wear a wire while he made some phone

492
00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:34.519
calls to Bart in an attempt to get him to

493
00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:38.759
say incriminating things. Adam said, I really just got a question,

494
00:24:38.920 --> 00:24:40.759
you know, as far as about what we talked about

495
00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:43.920
in the past. Bart replied, I haven't said a word

496
00:24:43.960 --> 00:24:46.240
about that, and I never will. I would never have

497
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:49.160
been involved in anything to hurt my brother. All they're

498
00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:52.079
really concerned about now is mistakes I've made in my life.

499
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:54.599
They're not looking where they need to be looking. I

500
00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:56.640
have come up with what I hope is essentially a

501
00:24:56.680 --> 00:24:58.839
good offer for you. I just want to make it

502
00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:02.039
worth your while. They agreed on the sum of twenty

503
00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:05.359
thousand dollars. Bart sent Adam and envelope containing about two

504
00:25:05.480 --> 00:25:09.000
hundred and fifty dollars, promising more later where the return

505
00:25:09.079 --> 00:25:12.079
address goes. He had written, kay Sosey.

506
00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:14.119
What were they agreeing to do here?

507
00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:17.039
He was paying him off for twenty thousand dollars. He

508
00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:18.839
wouldn't say anything else to the point, oh, just to.

509
00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:21.119
Keep quiet about yeah, okay, gotcha.

510
00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:23.759
But obviously Bart didn't know that he was wearing a wire,

511
00:25:23.960 --> 00:25:26.960
and he had already communicated right all of those things

512
00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:27.680
to the police.

513
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:31.440
And kay SoSE is a reference to the usual spect

514
00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:33.240
I'm guessing a great movie.

515
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:36.079
The Whittakers were a beloved family in the neighborhood where

516
00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:39.279
they'd live for twenty years. On December fourteenth, as Kent

517
00:25:39.400 --> 00:25:41.799
and Bart were driven home from the hospital, they were

518
00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:44.359
touched to see their neighbors had tied yellow ribbons to

519
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:47.200
the trees that lined their street. Their loving neighbors had

520
00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:49.839
even pitched in to replace the carpet on the first

521
00:25:49.839 --> 00:25:51.880
floor of their home that had been bloodstained in the

522
00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:55.440
chaos of the shooting. The friends had painstakingly moved all

523
00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:58.640
of the Whittaker's belongings, even an eight foot Christmas tree

524
00:25:58.680 --> 00:26:02.519
decorated by Tricia for the Carbet installation, and replace them.

525
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:05.480
They filled the refrigerator to the brim, and a constant

526
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:09.119
stream of visitors kept Kent and Bart distracted from their grief.

527
00:26:09.559 --> 00:26:13.119
Kent was uneasy about returning home, worried the killer might

528
00:26:13.160 --> 00:26:16.440
come back. His friends took turns sleeping on their couch

529
00:26:16.519 --> 00:26:19.319
until he began to feel grounded and safe. There again,

530
00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:21.039
what a nice group of friends.

531
00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:22.319
Yeah, that's super nice.

532
00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:25.119
And Trisha had, before her death, decorated the house for

533
00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:27.160
Christmas one last time. It must have been so hard

534
00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:27.759
to come home.

535
00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:31.359
Yeah, to that, absolutely, and I totally understand. Is the

536
00:26:31.400 --> 00:26:34.000
feeling of not being safe in your home, especially with

537
00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:36.079
the killer was out on the loose, and it's just

538
00:26:36.440 --> 00:26:39.359
such a scary feeling. When I was younger, my apartment

539
00:26:39.400 --> 00:26:42.359
got robbed once, nothing like nothing to compare to this,

540
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:45.720
but I felt really unsafe in my apartment for months

541
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:48.839
after that, just because knowing that someone had violated that space.

542
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:52.079
The funeral for Kevin and Trisha was held at Sugar

543
00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:55.400
Creek Baptist Church. The largest in the area. Over two

544
00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:58.839
thousand mourners packed the church. As kent entered the building,

545
00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:02.000
he thought back fondly to Kevin's high school graduation that

546
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:05.440
was held there a handful of years earlier. Kevin wasn't

547
00:27:05.480 --> 00:27:08.160
a stellar student. He ranked in the middle of his class.

548
00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:11.200
He hadn't earned any cords to wear around his neck

549
00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:14.440
for academic achievement. Like many of his friends, he loved

550
00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:17.680
practical jokes and to make people laugh. The crowd noticed

551
00:27:17.720 --> 00:27:20.160
that as he walked up to accept his diploma and

552
00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:23.599
shake the superintendent's hand, he had draped a six foot

553
00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:25.880
extension cord around his neck.

554
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:26.759
Pretty funny.

555
00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:29.359
That was pretty funny. For the funeral, the church was

556
00:27:29.400 --> 00:27:33.240
beautifully adorned with the two caskets heavily covered in flowers.

557
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:37.079
In the center of the dais. Law enforcement had covertly

558
00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:40.759
placed microphones among the blankets of flowers to capture any

559
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:43.400
confessions or incriminating conversations.

560
00:27:43.480 --> 00:27:45.079
You're about them doing that a lot at funerals.

561
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:47.240
I wonder if that's full, But there was Bob's funerals.

562
00:27:47.920 --> 00:27:48.720
I think it has.

563
00:27:48.759 --> 00:27:53.599
Really that's interesting, not inactic. The Winnakers were deeply devout Christians.

564
00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:57.440
Everyone except Bart, who was far less engaged in religion.

565
00:27:57.880 --> 00:28:00.480
For most of his life, Bart resisted the face his

566
00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:03.680
parents held so tightly they wanted him to be a Christian.

567
00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:06.720
He felt the pressure and pushed back. But in the

568
00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:10.960
weeks after Tricia and Kevin's deaths, something shifted. Each night

569
00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:14.960
Bart and Kent sat down together eating dinner, reading scripture,

570
00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:18.599
talking through passages from the many spiritual books that filled

571
00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:22.359
their home. Kent saw himself as his son's guide, believing

572
00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:25.960
what Bart needed most was to accept Jesus into his heart.

573
00:28:26.279 --> 00:28:29.039
To Kent, it felt like they were growing closer, but

574
00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:31.599
in the months and years that followed, he would begin

575
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:34.680
to question how well he had ever really known his son.

576
00:28:35.240 --> 00:28:37.599
On New Year's Eve, as two thousand and four began,

577
00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:40.480
there was a bit of happy news for Kent. Bart

578
00:28:40.519 --> 00:28:44.519
proposed to his girlfriend of five years Lynn. She accepted,

579
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:48.400
They planned to marry that July, and remind me his

580
00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:49.839
mom and brother were killed.

581
00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:51.359
She re killed on Decever tenth.

582
00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:53.079
Okay, so just less than a month before that.

583
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:56.200
Right, and Bart's birthday is on New Year's Eve too,

584
00:28:56.240 --> 00:28:58.440
so he turned twenty four on New Year's Eve.

585
00:28:58.839 --> 00:29:02.119
Kent Whittaker had always considered himself a strong supporter of

586
00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:05.279
law enforcement, but he was equally determined to stand by

587
00:29:05.319 --> 00:29:09.440
his son. As the investigation unfolded, He even hired an attorney,

588
00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:13.160
a family friend, Dan Cogdell, to represent him in case

589
00:29:13.240 --> 00:29:16.440
he was called in for questioning or arrested. As the

590
00:29:16.480 --> 00:29:19.559
weeks passed and police failed to name a suspect, Kent

591
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:23.000
began to worry that investigators were quietly building a case

592
00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:27.359
against Bart while overlooking other possibilities. He had warned Bart

593
00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:30.640
that leaving the state or country was akin to admitting guilt.

594
00:29:30.920 --> 00:29:33.440
There were a few incidents that troubled him and that

595
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:36.880
he urged police to examine more closely. On the same

596
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:39.559
night the Whittakers were attacked, a man had robbed a

597
00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:42.839
house while wearing a ski mask and gloves. The robbery

598
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:46.119
occurred just two miles from the Whittaker's home. He took

599
00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:49.480
his own life after police cornered him, but before doing so,

600
00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:52.039
he called his girlfriend and told her that he had

601
00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:55.480
killed someone that night. The man was later identified as

602
00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:59.480
twenty two year old Latham Brown. Police used snifferdogs to

603
00:29:59.559 --> 00:30:01.960
link him to the glove left at the Whittaker's home,

604
00:30:02.119 --> 00:30:05.240
but the dogs didn't alert, but Brown had been wearing

605
00:30:05.240 --> 00:30:08.200
two gloves and had used his own gun to shoot himself,

606
00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:10.839
so he was never considered a viable suspect.

607
00:30:11.079 --> 00:30:14.160
If you remember, the gun that killed Tricia and Kevin

608
00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:16.480
was left in the kitchen of the Whittaker's home.

609
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:20.200
Okay, Another detail nagged at Kent. A young woman who

610
00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:23.200
had once been interested in dating Kevin had been turned

611
00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:25.680
down after Kevin told her he didn't want to risk

612
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:28.839
their friendship. She had a jealous boyfriend, and on the

613
00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:32.039
night of the murders, Kent noticed her standing outside with

614
00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:34.920
a group of Kevin's friends. What struck him was how

615
00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:37.960
quickly she had arrived after the shooting. Could either of

616
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:41.160
them have been involved, Kent wondered. The police assured him

617
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:46.079
they were investigating all leads. Investigators weren't overlooking other suspects.

618
00:30:46.279 --> 00:30:49.480
Within days, their focus had narrowed, and it kept coming

619
00:30:49.519 --> 00:30:52.240
back to Bart Whittaker. Once they learned he had lied

620
00:30:52.279 --> 00:30:55.279
to his parents about graduating, they saw a clear motive

621
00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:58.359
begin to take shape. The threat hadn't come from outside

622
00:30:58.359 --> 00:31:00.960
the home. It had been much close us all along.

623
00:31:01.319 --> 00:31:04.519
Because Bart had been plotting to kill his family, Kent

624
00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:07.559
wasn't supposed to survive that night, but once he did,

625
00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:11.920
witnesses claim that Bart still considered killing him. Bart continued

626
00:31:11.960 --> 00:31:14.200
living with Kent in the home he had grown up in,

627
00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:16.960
giving up his house in Montgomery and moving back in

628
00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:20.759
with his father. In June. Bart's wedding was only weeks away.

629
00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:23.759
The big day was set for July twenty fourth. On

630
00:31:23.799 --> 00:31:27.559
the seventh, Detective Marshall Slot of the Sugarland Police Department

631
00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:30.319
contacted Kent and asked him to come to the station

632
00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:33.400
for a meeting. Instead, Kent asked to meet at his

633
00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:37.160
lawyer's office. Slot delivered a troubling message that he had

634
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:40.119
been sitting on for weeks. He told Kent he was

635
00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:43.160
concerned for his safety and didn't believe it was wise

636
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:46.799
for him to continue living with Bart. Investigators, he said,

637
00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:50.799
had uncovered information suggesting that Bart had tried to arrange

638
00:31:50.839 --> 00:31:53.759
the murders of his family more than once. They thought

639
00:31:53.799 --> 00:31:56.319
it was possible that he would strike again. In the

640
00:31:56.400 --> 00:31:59.640
days immediately following the murders of Tricia and Kevin, Kent

641
00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:02.160
had been believe there was only about a five percent

642
00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:05.359
chance that Bart was involved, but on this day, for Kent,

643
00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:07.799
he thought there was a fifty to fifty chance that

644
00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:11.079
his son had murdered his wife and younger son. A

645
00:32:11.079 --> 00:32:14.720
few days later, Bart's fiancee, Lynn called Kent in tears.

646
00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:18.440
Police had contacted her warning that they didn't believe she

647
00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:21.119
or her family were safe, and they asked to meet

648
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:24.880
with her. While the Whittakers were financially comfortable, Lynn's family

649
00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:28.519
was very wealthy, and investigators were concerned that Bart might

650
00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:31.839
target them. Next, Kent spoke with Bart, and the two

651
00:32:31.880 --> 00:32:35.119
agreed that with the possibility that Bart could be arrested

652
00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:38.119
at any moment, it would be best to postpone the wedding.

653
00:32:38.519 --> 00:32:40.480
Kent told his son to set up a meeting with

654
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:44.319
Lynn and her parents, but Bart didn't arrange a meeting. Instead,

655
00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:47.319
on June twenty seventh, two thousand and four, he told

656
00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:49.480
Kent he was meeting up with some friends at a

657
00:32:49.480 --> 00:32:52.720
bar and later spending the night at Lynde's house. He'd

658
00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:54.960
see him the next night at dinner. It was the

659
00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:58.519
last time he saw his son for fifteen months. The

660
00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:02.319
next morning, police called Kent after discovering Bart's two thousand

661
00:33:02.319 --> 00:33:05.839
and one Yukon suv abandoned in a parking lot in

662
00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:08.480
the CD part of town, with the doors open and

663
00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:09.759
the engines still running.

664
00:33:10.039 --> 00:33:11.240
Why do you think Bart did that?

665
00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:13.759
I think he was trying to make it look like

666
00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:16.039
he was kidnapped or something.

667
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:18.480
Maybe I think he was hoping that someone would take

668
00:33:18.680 --> 00:33:22.319
his Yukon and strip it for parts, and then no

669
00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:23.839
one would know where the car was.

670
00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:28.079
Kent immediately feared Bart had made a run for the border,

671
00:33:28.359 --> 00:33:31.400
but at that point he hadn't technically done anything illegal,

672
00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:35.319
although he'd stolen ten thousand dollars from his father. Kent

673
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:38.920
tried calling Bart's cell phone relentlessly, but there was no answer.

674
00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:43.119
He suspected Bart had already ditched it. Desperate, Kent left

675
00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:46.799
messages begging him to come home. Instead of reporting him missing,

676
00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:49.839
Kent chose to wait, hoping that Bart would return on

677
00:33:49.880 --> 00:33:52.640
his own. Kent's belief that Bart was involved in the

678
00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:56.640
murders went from fifty percent to eighty percent. Quote by

679
00:33:56.680 --> 00:33:59.279
the time that he actually ran, I was probably eighty

680
00:33:59.319 --> 00:34:02.200
percent believing that he was responsible. But I wasn't going

681
00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:05.480
to desert him anyway. He's my son. After Bart was

682
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:08.440
gone for about ten days, Kent received a letter in

683
00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:12.000
the mail. Father, so many things to say, and yet

684
00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:15.000
I cannot seem to find my words. I am leaving

685
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:18.280
despite the advice I have been given. The reasons are many,

686
00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:20.320
and I am not going to waste the time writing

687
00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:23.519
them all. Just know that I cannot will not allow

688
00:34:23.559 --> 00:34:26.519
anyone else to pass through the fire of coming weeks

689
00:34:26.559 --> 00:34:28.920
with me. I must do this with God and no

690
00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:31.719
one else. If the sins of my life must go on,

691
00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:35.079
that I must start anew completely, anew. Know that I

692
00:34:35.159 --> 00:34:37.159
love you and that I go with God because of

693
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:39.400
what you have taught me in the last few months.

694
00:34:39.559 --> 00:34:43.440
I am sorry. I love you. Bart. Ps. The longer

695
00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:46.199
you can give me before you release this information, the

696
00:34:46.239 --> 00:34:49.159
better for me. Please help Lynn. She will need it.

697
00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:51.039
Lynn was his fiance.

698
00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:53.960
So this letter came ten days after he disappeared. Had

699
00:34:54.039 --> 00:34:57.119
Kent reported it to the police yet or still not? No?

700
00:34:57.280 --> 00:34:59.480
He hadn't. Wow, And it is kind of weird that

701
00:34:59.480 --> 00:35:01.199
they is addressed father.

702
00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:04.880
Yeah, I think this seems very formal. In the coming days, Kent,

703
00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:08.519
along with Lynn's family, sent out an email officially canceling

704
00:35:08.559 --> 00:35:11.719
the wedding. Even if Bart returned, against the odds, there

705
00:35:11.719 --> 00:35:15.320
would be no wedding. On July seventh, Kent finally reported

706
00:35:15.320 --> 00:35:18.360
Bart missing and held a press conference asking the public

707
00:35:18.360 --> 00:35:21.480
for help finding him, but no leads came in. Bart

708
00:35:21.480 --> 00:35:24.639
had simply vanished. Bart's attorney told the media that he

709
00:35:24.679 --> 00:35:27.000
had fled because he was worried that he would be

710
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:30.639
unjustly charged, and that he was following God's plan for.

711
00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:33.320
Him and amazing how attorneys can spit anything.

712
00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:34.119
Yeah.

713
00:35:34.159 --> 00:35:36.679
Finding that he could no longer handle stress the same

714
00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:39.599
way as before the murders, Kent stepped away from his

715
00:35:39.679 --> 00:35:43.840
construction company and began volunteering and fundraising for a local

716
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:45.679
ministry that helped those in need.

717
00:35:46.239 --> 00:35:48.239
Again. This is one of the things in his book,

718
00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:49.920
the way he said it was like, I just couldn't

719
00:35:49.960 --> 00:35:52.719
handle the stress of the job. But his book is

720
00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:56.719
telling because he never talks about the Bartletts, Trish's family.

721
00:35:56.840 --> 00:36:00.159
He never names them. He'll just say Trish's family. So

722
00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:04.519
I think that the relationship had begun to deteriorate, and

723
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:06.559
that's why he left the construction company.

724
00:36:06.679 --> 00:36:10.360
Okay. In December two thousand and four, the Sugarland Police,

725
00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:13.760
who had been very tight lipped about the investigation, announced

726
00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:16.679
that Burglary was not the motive for the Whittaker shooting.

727
00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:19.760
They knew the motive but did not want to reveal it.

728
00:36:20.039 --> 00:36:22.440
They did admit that they had recovered the murder weapon

729
00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:25.440
at the scene. They didn't reveal the actual motive, but

730
00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:29.400
named bart Whittaker as a person of interest. Quote, Bart

731
00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:31.880
Whittaker is someone that we believed to be involved in

732
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:34.840
this case, obviously because he was there at the time

733
00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:35.519
it happened.

734
00:36:36.039 --> 00:36:38.519
So it really was that really is sort of a

735
00:36:38.559 --> 00:36:39.679
nothing burger there.

736
00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:43.159
I mean, it's kind of implying that they view him

737
00:36:43.159 --> 00:36:44.920
as a suspect. But yeah, the way they ordered it,

738
00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:46.760
it's like, well, he was involved because he.

739
00:36:46.760 --> 00:36:49.880
Was there and he is missing, right, So this is

740
00:36:49.960 --> 00:36:53.639
a year after the murders, and really the public still

741
00:36:53.679 --> 00:36:55.840
didn't know a lot. They didn't have a lot of information.

742
00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:59.519
Soon after, Kent was subpoenaed by a grand jury. He

743
00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:02.079
called it the worst day of his life, being hounded

744
00:37:02.119 --> 00:37:05.559
by the media, being questioned about his son aggressively, and

745
00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:08.679
finding out more secrets his son had kept from him.

746
00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:11.400
It's interesting that he calls that the worst day of

747
00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:11.960
his life.

748
00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:14.760
Yeah, that is a little bit odd. We'll be back.

749
00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:15.559
After a break.

750
00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:25.760
In September two thousand and five, a tip led authorities

751
00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:29.800
to Mexico, where Bart Whittaker was living. Under an assumed name.

752
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:32.480
He was working as a bricklayer and picking up odd

753
00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:36.639
jobs at a furniture store, even dating his boss's daughter, Cindy.

754
00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:40.320
She later told Forty eight Hours that Bart seemed charming

755
00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:44.559
and friendly. Her father described him as hard working and obedient.

756
00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:48.159
The family liked him, and Bart appeared to feel the same.

757
00:37:48.519 --> 00:37:51.280
He told them that they were the family he never had,

758
00:37:51.639 --> 00:37:55.119
but much of what he shared wasn't true. Bart claimed

759
00:37:55.119 --> 00:37:58.679
that he'd been injured fighting in Afghanistan, explaining the scar

760
00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:01.199
on his arm is a battle wound. He told him

761
00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:03.360
that he was an only child, that his family had

762
00:38:03.400 --> 00:38:06.599
never loved him, and that his mother was a sex worker.

763
00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:09.760
According to Bart, his family had given him money, but

764
00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:13.880
never affection. Again, none of this was in Kent's book.

765
00:38:14.199 --> 00:38:16.800
And the fact that he told people that his mother

766
00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:21.519
was a sex worker, she was, by all accounts of

767
00:38:21.639 --> 00:38:25.159
lovely woman and she did not deserve that, and that

768
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:28.760
would have really hurt her so much totally. On September

769
00:38:28.840 --> 00:38:32.119
twenty third, just as Hurricane Rita was bearing down on Texas,

770
00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:35.960
Kent received a call from Detective Slot. After fifteen months

771
00:38:35.960 --> 00:38:38.800
on the run, fifteen months, I mean that's a long time, right,

772
00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:41.280
now that really is. Bart had been detained by Mexican

773
00:38:41.320 --> 00:38:44.800
authorities and would be extradited back to Texas to face trial.

774
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:48.519
Kent wasn't surprised. Ten days earlier, two of Bart's friends

775
00:38:48.519 --> 00:38:52.320
had been arrested. Christopher Brisheer was taken into custody by

776
00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:56.239
the Sugarland Police Department and identified as the gunman who

777
00:38:56.280 --> 00:39:00.639
shot the Whittakers. Two days later, Stephen Champagne was arrested.

778
00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:05.280
Once in custody, they began cooperating with investigators. Bascher told

779
00:39:05.440 --> 00:39:08.199
police that in the early stages of the plan, Bart

780
00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:11.599
had first asked about killing his brother, not his parents.

781
00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:16.000
All three men were charged with capital murder. Under Texas law,

782
00:39:16.159 --> 00:39:18.519
you don't have to pull the trigger to be charged

783
00:39:18.519 --> 00:39:21.440
with capital murder. If you plan or carry out a

784
00:39:21.440 --> 00:39:24.079
crime that leads to someone's death, you can be held

785
00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:27.559
just as responsible as the shooter. That means that the

786
00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:30.480
getaway driver in this case could face the same charge

787
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:33.880
as the gunman. While Bart was back in Texas, Kent

788
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:37.039
was allowed a quick visit through thick glass. He'd never

789
00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:40.000
again be allowed to hug his son. Bart all but

790
00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:45.360
confessed tearfully, apologizing, vociferously claiming that his time in Mexico

791
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:48.079
had given him the perspective he needed to come to

792
00:39:48.199 --> 00:39:50.519
terms with what he'd done. Kent thought he was a

793
00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:53.920
changed man with renewed faith in God. But Kent knew

794
00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:56.920
by now that there were still buried secrets that would

795
00:39:56.960 --> 00:40:00.480
come out at trial that would once again destroy him. Quote.

796
00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:03.880
He exhibited calmness, peace, and a humility that had not

797
00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:06.960
been present before his flight to Mexico. All of us

798
00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:10.079
who knew him saw it. If only the prosecutors could

799
00:40:10.119 --> 00:40:13.159
have seen these changes to this day, I believe if

800
00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:16.239
they had, the fiasco would have ended within weeks of

801
00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:19.400
Bart's arrest. He could have pleaded guilty to a modified

802
00:40:19.480 --> 00:40:22.440
charge that spared his life and avoided a trial, if

803
00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:25.559
only the prosecution could have spent time with him. Ulick

804
00:40:25.639 --> 00:40:27.920
cynical over there are do you not believe that Bart

805
00:40:28.039 --> 00:40:28.840
has seen the way?

806
00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:31.039
Well, God, No, If he had really seen the way,

807
00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:33.679
he wouldn't have waited to be caught. He would have

808
00:40:33.679 --> 00:40:34.440
turned himself in.

809
00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:37.199
So yeah, I can't said. Can't said he was just waiting.

810
00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:40.599
He was ready, but he was waiting and just waiting

811
00:40:40.599 --> 00:40:43.840
for the right moment. So what really happened on the

812
00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:46.880
night of December tenth, two thousand and three. To understand

813
00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:48.480
that we have to go back in time a bit.

814
00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:52.400
Bart hadn't attended classes at sam Houston State University for

815
00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:55.480
more than a year. Each semester he doctored his grades,

816
00:40:55.559 --> 00:40:59.119
so it looked as if he were thriving academically. Bart

817
00:40:59.199 --> 00:41:02.039
was a really smart kid, and he had all the

818
00:41:02.079 --> 00:41:05.760
potential in the world to succeed academically. But he just,

819
00:41:06.039 --> 00:41:09.360
for whatever reason, you know, wasn't going to class and studying.

820
00:41:09.519 --> 00:41:12.079
So for a while he lived at his family's really

821
00:41:12.159 --> 00:41:15.159
nice lakehouse, but then Tricia and Ken bought him a

822
00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:18.239
small place of his own. Instead of going to college,

823
00:41:18.280 --> 00:41:21.159
Bart worked as the food and beverage manager at a

824
00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:23.880
local country club and did a lot of partying. He

825
00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:27.079
met Christopher Prisheer and Stephen Champagne. While working at the

826
00:41:27.079 --> 00:41:29.920
country club, Bart confided in his friends how much he

827
00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:33.960
hated his family. He hated sugarland and a conspicuous consumption

828
00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:36.880
of his parents and the other affluent families there. His

829
00:41:36.920 --> 00:41:39.639
brother was just like his parents. All they cared about

830
00:41:39.760 --> 00:41:42.320
was God. The only way he could live freely on

831
00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:45.519
his own terms was if they were gone, and he

832
00:41:45.559 --> 00:41:48.480
stood to inherit at least one and a half million dollars.

833
00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:52.440
Over time, Bart began formulating a plan. He promised his

834
00:41:52.519 --> 00:41:55.199
friends a lot of money if they helped him kill

835
00:41:55.239 --> 00:41:58.039
his family, though in the end neither of them ever

836
00:41:58.119 --> 00:42:01.360
received a dime. Forsher agreed to be at the shooter

837
00:42:01.519 --> 00:42:04.400
and Champagne would drive the getaway car. Art drew them

838
00:42:04.440 --> 00:42:07.360
a diagram of the house and mapped out exactly how

839
00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:09.679
it would go down. On the night of December tenth,

840
00:42:09.800 --> 00:42:12.559
two thousand and three, Art was sure to unarm the

841
00:42:12.599 --> 00:42:16.559
security system and leave the back door unlocked. Champagne dropped

842
00:42:16.719 --> 00:42:19.639
Chier off while the Whittakers were out to dinner. Brashier

843
00:42:19.760 --> 00:42:22.960
slipped inside and went straight to Kevin's bedroom. He found

844
00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:25.280
the gun safe right where Bart had said it would be,

845
00:42:25.400 --> 00:42:28.320
and pried it open with a crowbar. Wearing gloves, he

846
00:42:28.360 --> 00:42:31.360
took out the nine millimeter glock handgun. To make the

847
00:42:31.400 --> 00:42:34.320
scene look more like a burglary. He opened drawers and

848
00:42:34.360 --> 00:42:38.320
doors around the house and then waited. Meanwhile, Steve Champagne

849
00:42:38.440 --> 00:42:42.639
kept watch from nearby, communicating with Bart and Brasher throughout

850
00:42:42.679 --> 00:42:45.320
the dinner. Earlier that day, he had stolen a license

851
00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:48.159
plate and placed it on his mother's Toyota Camri to

852
00:42:48.239 --> 00:42:51.719
avoid detection. When he saw the Whittakers leaving the restaurant

853
00:42:51.880 --> 00:42:54.760
less than ten minutes from their home, he alerted Brasher,

854
00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:58.039
and then he followed them. As the family returned and

855
00:42:58.119 --> 00:43:00.480
opened the front door, Braschier stepped out of the shadows

856
00:43:00.519 --> 00:43:04.079
and opened fire. Tricia, Kent, and Kevin were all shot. Bart,

857
00:43:04.119 --> 00:43:07.280
who had deliberately hung back behind the others, then rushed

858
00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:10.480
forward and staged a struggle with him. As planned, Brasher

859
00:43:10.559 --> 00:43:13.880
shot him once in the left bicept, a wound meant

860
00:43:13.880 --> 00:43:16.599
to make it look like he was another victim. Then

861
00:43:16.639 --> 00:43:18.920
he fled out the back door and left the gun

862
00:43:18.960 --> 00:43:21.880
behind in the kitchen. He leapt over the fence unnoticed

863
00:43:21.880 --> 00:43:24.800
and found Champagne waiting for him in the getaway car.

864
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:28.880
They escaped into the night. The plan unfolded almost exactly

865
00:43:28.920 --> 00:43:33.320
as intended, except Kent Whittaker survived. Forshier had even used

866
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:36.360
hollow point bullets to ensure the shots would be fatal,

867
00:43:36.559 --> 00:43:39.880
but Kent's gunshot hadn't landed as planned. Had the bullet

868
00:43:39.960 --> 00:43:42.320
hit just a few inches to the left, he likely

869
00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:46.119
would have died as well. Champagne drove Rasher to Bart's house,

870
00:43:46.159 --> 00:43:48.559
where he showered and changed out of his bloody clothes.

871
00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:51.920
They gathered all the incriminating evidence and placed it into

872
00:43:51.960 --> 00:43:56.039
two Duffel bags, then threw them into Lake Conroe before

873
00:43:56.079 --> 00:43:58.400
they went to a bar and got very drunk with

874
00:43:58.519 --> 00:44:01.519
cash stolen from the Whittaker home. Because there was no

875
00:44:01.599 --> 00:44:05.039
fingerprint evidence, police use scent dogs to test if the

876
00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:09.320
glove from the crime scene contained either Basher or Champagne's scent.

877
00:44:09.639 --> 00:44:13.760
The dogs alerted on Brocheer but not Champagne. For police,

878
00:44:13.800 --> 00:44:17.239
this was enough to corroborate their story. Are you with me?

879
00:44:17.719 --> 00:44:17.920
Yeah?

880
00:44:17.960 --> 00:44:20.760
I think so? Okay. Dive teams searched the lake where

881
00:44:20.760 --> 00:44:24.039
the Duffel bags had been thrown, stretching twenty one miles

882
00:44:24.079 --> 00:44:27.079
long and reaching depths up to seventy five feet. It

883
00:44:27.159 --> 00:44:29.960
was like searching for a needle in a haystack, especially

884
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:34.119
after eighteen months had passed. But after two days divers

885
00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:37.599
found one of the bags inside was a chisel, Bart's

886
00:44:37.599 --> 00:44:41.320
cell phone, unspent nine millimeters hollow point bullets, and a

887
00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:45.079
half full water bottle. DNA from the bottle was linked

888
00:44:45.159 --> 00:44:48.599
to Christopher Burscher, the shooter. The chisel was marked with

889
00:44:48.639 --> 00:44:51.760
blue paint that matched Kevin's gun safe and it was

890
00:44:51.880 --> 00:44:55.440
enough to arrest all three men. After Champagne and Brochier

891
00:44:55.559 --> 00:44:58.719
were arrested and a ten thousand dollars reward was offered

892
00:44:58.760 --> 00:45:02.519
for information on Bart Whitaker's whereabouts, a man came forward.

893
00:45:02.840 --> 00:45:06.199
His name was Rudy Rios. He and Bart had worked

894
00:45:06.199 --> 00:45:08.559
together at a restaurant and he knew that Bart was

895
00:45:08.559 --> 00:45:11.400
in trouble. For three thousand dollars, he offered to help

896
00:45:11.480 --> 00:45:17.320
him disappear. He drove Bart from Sugarland to his hometown, Solvo, Mexico,

897
00:45:17.559 --> 00:45:20.719
about six hours away. He gave him his driver's license,

898
00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:22.119
and Bart became Rudy.

899
00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:25.480
One thing I'm curious about is how did the police

900
00:45:25.719 --> 00:45:29.280
track down for Asher and Champagne, Like, what was the

901
00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:33.000
thing that tipped them off that these two guys were involved.

902
00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:35.719
That is a very good question. And I didn't talk

903
00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:38.000
about it, did I. I guess that they were just

904
00:45:38.119 --> 00:45:40.639
zeroing in on a lot of Bart's friends. Bart didn't

905
00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:42.679
have a ton of friends, but these two guys, like

906
00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:45.559
one of them had lived with him, and they kept

907
00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:49.480
bugging them about, you know, their relationship with Bart and

908
00:45:49.480 --> 00:45:51.840
they could just tell that something was there. Yeah, and

909
00:45:51.880 --> 00:45:54.920
they got a wire tab for their phones, expecting that

910
00:45:54.960 --> 00:45:58.039
they were going to talk, maybe that they would find Bart.

911
00:45:58.039 --> 00:46:02.760
But they never found any conversations between them. But eventually

912
00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:06.480
they caved when you know, the police were kind of zeroing.

913
00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:06.559
In on them.

914
00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:09.960
They knew it. Since the murders, there had been tension

915
00:46:10.039 --> 00:46:13.800
between Kent and the Bartletts, his wife's family. They believed

916
00:46:13.840 --> 00:46:16.840
that Bart was guilty and should face the legal consequences

917
00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:21.559
of his actions. Tricia and Kevin deserved justice. Bart's disappearance

918
00:46:21.639 --> 00:46:24.800
deepened the divide within the family. Afraid of what he

919
00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:27.559
might still be capable of, they cut ties with him.

920
00:46:27.960 --> 00:46:30.880
Kent could not do that, however difficult the road a

921
00:46:30.920 --> 00:46:34.159
head might be. He was determined to stand beside his son,

922
00:46:34.480 --> 00:46:38.719
help him face the consequences, and somehow learn to forgive him.

923
00:46:38.760 --> 00:46:42.559
Bart's attorney, Dan Cogdell, was close friends with Tricia's brother,

924
00:46:42.719 --> 00:46:46.800
who ran the family construction company, and had initially recommended him,

925
00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:49.239
But when it looked as if Bart was headed to trial,

926
00:46:49.559 --> 00:46:52.559
Tricia's family asked him to drop Bart as a client,

927
00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:55.239
and he did just weeks before the trial.

928
00:46:55.639 --> 00:46:58.760
The Bartletts had said to Dan, you're such a good attorney.

929
00:46:58.760 --> 00:47:00.880
We're afraid you're going to get off, get him off.

930
00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:03.199
Oh wow, so we don't want you involved.

931
00:47:03.199 --> 00:47:07.480
Wow, that's interesting. Prosecutor Fred Felchman offered Bart Whittaker a

932
00:47:07.480 --> 00:47:10.239
plea deal that would have spared him the possibility of

933
00:47:10.280 --> 00:47:13.679
the death penalty, but the offer was later withdrawn after

934
00:47:13.719 --> 00:47:17.480
they concluded he had not shown genuine remorse and appeared

935
00:47:17.480 --> 00:47:20.480
to be seeking a deal that benefited him without fully

936
00:47:20.519 --> 00:47:24.960
accepting responsibility for the crime. Kent addressed this in his book, saying,

937
00:47:25.280 --> 00:47:27.760
if only he had been able to talk directly with Bart,

938
00:47:27.880 --> 00:47:30.719
I believe mister Felchman would have seen the changes too.

939
00:47:31.159 --> 00:47:33.039
But the only time they were ever in a room

940
00:47:33.079 --> 00:47:36.119
together was when they were standing before the judge in court.

941
00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:39.440
So this was kind of confusing to me. But Bart

942
00:47:39.480 --> 00:47:42.679
was supposed to write a letter to the court apologizing

943
00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:45.960
and saying, you know what he'd learned, and he wrote

944
00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:48.880
the letter, but one of the attorneys that was working

945
00:47:48.920 --> 00:47:51.960
for him wrote a letter that was more like a

946
00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:55.239
formal letter, more of like a lawyerly letter, and that

947
00:47:55.400 --> 00:47:57.679
was the one that was submitted to the court. Okay,

948
00:47:57.719 --> 00:47:59.519
and that's why the judge was like, well, this isn't

949
00:47:59.599 --> 00:48:04.119
much of it sounds but this again was in Kent's book,

950
00:48:04.199 --> 00:48:06.719
and kind of question it because it seems like something

951
00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:09.719
that you could, you know, change, like if you contact

952
00:48:09.719 --> 00:48:11.239
the court and was like, oh, this was, you know,

953
00:48:11.320 --> 00:48:14.199
a mistake. I can't imagine the judge saying, oh, yeah,

954
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:15.840
I don't want Bart's.

955
00:48:15.800 --> 00:48:17.599
I don't think. I don't think a lawyer would do

956
00:48:17.639 --> 00:48:19.800
that without permission from their client either.

957
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:21.960
You know, well, I can see understand how it might

958
00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:25.920
have been like a paperwork mistake or whatever. I don't know. Yeah,

959
00:48:26.280 --> 00:48:27.280
just a strange story.

960
00:48:27.519 --> 00:48:30.119
When Bart went on trial for capital murder in late

961
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:33.320
February two thousand and seven, he faced the death penalty,

962
00:48:33.559 --> 00:48:36.400
even though every member of his family, even those who

963
00:48:36.480 --> 00:48:39.360
had turned their backs on Bart, had asked prosecutors to

964
00:48:39.400 --> 00:48:42.920
seek life in prison instead. The trial moved quickly and

965
00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:46.760
the evidence was overwhelming. The defense didn't call a witness.

966
00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:50.000
They knew Bart would be found guilty. They were focused

967
00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:53.159
on the penalty phase and saving Bart from the death penalty.

968
00:48:53.559 --> 00:48:56.719
On March fifth, two thousand and seven, the jury deliberated

969
00:48:56.760 --> 00:48:59.039
for only two and a half hours before they reached

970
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:02.199
a verdict. Of guilty, which was a surprise to no one.

971
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:05.519
Moving on to the penalty phase, Art chose to take

972
00:49:05.559 --> 00:49:06.079
the stand.

973
00:49:06.679 --> 00:49:10.199
I am one guilty for this. I put the plan

974
00:49:10.280 --> 00:49:12.760
in motion. If I had not done so, it would

975
00:49:12.760 --> 00:49:13.400
not have happened.

976
00:49:14.119 --> 00:49:17.239
Do you realize that you've robbed your mother of a

977
00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:22.559
full life? You're robbed chairman of a full life. You

978
00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:26.199
actually even robbed your father of a full life. So

979
00:49:26.599 --> 00:49:28.800
do you feel any remorse for this?

980
00:49:29.119 --> 00:49:30.000
Yes, yes, sir, I did.

981
00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:31.880
Who do you feel remorse for?

982
00:49:32.840 --> 00:49:33.599
Ed wooden Buld?

983
00:49:33.920 --> 00:49:38.679
Starting with my dad? I'm homing my brother Harry Womb

984
00:49:38.679 --> 00:49:40.440
I've ever met in my life, I felt so have

985
00:49:40.519 --> 00:49:41.599
been come in contact with me.

986
00:49:43.199 --> 00:49:46.000
Can you answer the question why?

987
00:49:46.840 --> 00:49:48.760
No, sir, I've come up with a lot of the

988
00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:52.480
reasons for how I how I got to where I

989
00:49:52.519 --> 00:49:54.760
was going, but they do not explain it. I always

990
00:49:54.800 --> 00:49:58.760
felt that whatever love they sent me was conditional on

991
00:49:58.760 --> 00:50:01.360
on my standard be I just never felt I could peach.

992
00:50:02.239 --> 00:50:05.440
That last comment by him I find really interesting, Like

993
00:50:05.559 --> 00:50:09.800
he's it's almost like he's blaming his family, like their

994
00:50:09.880 --> 00:50:12.360
love was conditional and so that's why he did it.

995
00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:14.320
Yeah, that's a very good point in.

996
00:50:14.360 --> 00:50:17.239
Order to avoid the death penalty. Bart needed to prove

997
00:50:17.320 --> 00:50:19.400
that he was not a danger to anyone.

998
00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:22.800
Do you have any designs on any conduct that would,

999
00:50:23.039 --> 00:50:26.679
in any way, shape or form hurt another individual. No.

1000
00:50:26.840 --> 00:50:29.280
The only people I've ever hated, and I know that

1001
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:31.119
was not for the right reasons. But the only people

1002
00:50:31.119 --> 00:50:33.119
I ever hated were my parents and my brother.

1003
00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:36.559
Fact the ronad. But Alas, your dad is actually the

1004
00:50:36.599 --> 00:50:38.559
one that's come to your rescue and put you back

1005
00:50:38.599 --> 00:50:39.079
on trial.

1006
00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:40.599
He's become a best friend.

1007
00:50:40.760 --> 00:50:45.239
Last year, then Prosecutor Fred Feltschman had a chance at Bart.

1008
00:50:45.519 --> 00:50:46.880
He was not a fan.

1009
00:50:47.280 --> 00:50:51.000
If somebody interacts with Bart Whitaker, he could be on

1010
00:50:51.039 --> 00:50:54.880
a totally innocent basis, and you decide to perceive it different.

1011
00:50:55.119 --> 00:50:56.559
You could kill that person.

1012
00:50:56.719 --> 00:50:57.199
No, I could not.

1013
00:50:57.480 --> 00:51:00.239
You killed your mother and brother on totally fault.

1014
00:51:00.199 --> 00:51:02.199
Circumstances, Sir, it was a different person.

1015
00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:06.719
Then, see you, brother man, Yes I did. He was

1016
00:51:06.760 --> 00:51:11.639
gurgling in his old blood. Yeah, you watch his whole tron.

1017
00:51:11.719 --> 00:51:15.800
You never cried till now. Why are you crying now

1018
00:51:16.320 --> 00:51:17.199
for pulindury.

1019
00:51:17.960 --> 00:51:19.960
You believe a person can't be sorry for the things

1020
00:51:19.960 --> 00:51:20.320
they did.

1021
00:51:20.639 --> 00:51:23.559
No, I think they can be mister wilcrew. But I

1022
00:51:23.599 --> 00:51:25.239
don't think you are I think you're sorry. You get

1023
00:51:25.280 --> 00:51:26.639
caught and now you're trying to figure out how to

1024
00:51:26.679 --> 00:51:27.440
get out of death. Now.

1025
00:51:28.039 --> 00:51:33.119
Wo yeah, harsh words. During deliberation of the penalty stage

1026
00:51:33.119 --> 00:51:35.519
of the trial, it took the jury ten hours to

1027
00:51:35.559 --> 00:51:38.880
come to a verdict. They sentenced him to death. They

1028
00:51:38.880 --> 00:51:41.239
didn't believe that he was a changed man, and he

1029
00:51:41.280 --> 00:51:45.199
remained a danger to society. Kent addressed the waiting media.

1030
00:51:45.559 --> 00:51:48.199
Even though he was devastated, he felt a sense of

1031
00:51:48.239 --> 00:51:51.360
relief wash over him that the trial was over. This

1032
00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:54.000
is a sad day. It's a sad day for everyone.

1033
00:51:54.280 --> 00:51:56.840
From the very beginning, I've prayed that God would do

1034
00:51:56.960 --> 00:51:59.599
whatever it took to reach my son. While this was

1035
00:51:59.639 --> 00:52:02.039
not the verdict that we had hoped for, I still

1036
00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:04.599
believe that the Lord is sovereign, and I believe that

1037
00:52:04.679 --> 00:52:07.440
his will was done today. There will be no further

1038
00:52:07.519 --> 00:52:11.599
statement by me, my family, or Tricia's. I respectfully ask

1039
00:52:11.719 --> 00:52:14.800
that you grant us the courtesy of respecting our privacy.

1040
00:52:15.320 --> 00:52:18.760
Chris Brasher was convicted of two counts of capital murder

1041
00:52:18.800 --> 00:52:22.119
and sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole.

1042
00:52:22.199 --> 00:52:25.159
In twenty thirty five, when he's fifty three years old.

1043
00:52:25.559 --> 00:52:29.639
Stephen Champagne, for his cooperation, was sentenced to fifteen years

1044
00:52:29.679 --> 00:52:32.440
in prison. He was paroled in twenty fifteen.

1045
00:52:32.960 --> 00:52:35.559
Life on death row is lonely. There is nothing to

1046
00:52:35.599 --> 00:52:38.679
look forward to. Bart wrote to Kent, I came here

1047
00:52:38.719 --> 00:52:41.679
with my heart set on doing God's work, totally devoted.

1048
00:52:42.039 --> 00:52:44.679
I felt this is where he wanted me, and yet

1049
00:52:44.679 --> 00:52:47.719
there are so few opportunities to do anything here. There's

1050
00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:51.360
so little time to socialize and share the word. And honestly,

1051
00:52:51.519 --> 00:52:54.440
most of these men already believe in God. Those who

1052
00:52:54.519 --> 00:52:58.480
don't have very specific and detailed reasons for not believing.

1053
00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:01.280
What do I say in two hours to guys who've

1054
00:53:01.280 --> 00:53:04.280
never had a day of happiness in their whole lives

1055
00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:07.519
until one day they blew up. While waiting on death row,

1056
00:53:07.599 --> 00:53:10.519
Bart was interviewed by Lisa Ling for the Oprah Winfrey Show.

1057
00:53:10.840 --> 00:53:13.440
He reflected on the feelings that had shaped his thinking

1058
00:53:13.480 --> 00:53:15.960
at the time of the murders. I can go back

1059
00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:18.880
and tell you why I felt so inadequate and why

1060
00:53:18.920 --> 00:53:21.039
I felt that my parents didn't love me. There's a

1061
00:53:21.079 --> 00:53:24.119
difference between an excuse and a reason and I don't

1062
00:53:24.119 --> 00:53:27.000
try to make excuses for what I did. Barte believed

1063
00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:30.079
his parents loved and idealized version of him, someone he

1064
00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:32.599
felt he could never be. He thought that if they

1065
00:53:32.679 --> 00:53:36.119
truly saw who he was, they wouldn't love him at all. Quote.

1066
00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:38.719
You can only go through that for so long before

1067
00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:40.960
you start to bear a grudge against the people who

1068
00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:44.440
you think have set that high standard. His relationship with

1069
00:53:44.480 --> 00:53:47.800
his brother was complicated, riddled by envy. Kevin embodied the

1070
00:53:47.880 --> 00:53:51.920
qualities that Bart struggled to possess, the qualities Bart believed

1071
00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:56.039
his parents valued most. Quote, Kevin had so many qualities

1072
00:53:56.039 --> 00:53:58.599
that I tried so hard for over the years. People

1073
00:53:58.760 --> 00:54:02.000
just loved him always. I wanted my life to be different,

1074
00:54:02.199 --> 00:54:05.360
and however my thought press has got there. I blamed

1075
00:54:05.400 --> 00:54:08.440
them for me. I blamed them for being in existence.

1076
00:54:08.880 --> 00:54:12.719
I wanted revenge for being alive. Kent says that choosing

1077
00:54:12.760 --> 00:54:16.000
to forgive Bart ultimately became an important part of his

1078
00:54:16.039 --> 00:54:19.079
own healing. Quote. The wonderful thing is if you do

1079
00:54:19.239 --> 00:54:22.119
take that choice, and you do choose to forgive, changes

1080
00:54:22.199 --> 00:54:24.679
come in you, and that's when you really are able

1081
00:54:24.719 --> 00:54:27.119
to start healing. I can tell you I would never

1082
00:54:27.159 --> 00:54:29.559
be where I am now. If I had not made

1083
00:54:29.639 --> 00:54:32.920
that choice in the hospital that night, I'd hate to

1084
00:54:32.920 --> 00:54:35.400
waste all that pain ending up on the other end

1085
00:54:35.480 --> 00:54:38.599
after having gone through the grieving with still that bitterness

1086
00:54:38.639 --> 00:54:41.320
of spirit. I wanted to get through that hard time

1087
00:54:41.480 --> 00:54:44.000
and know that there's still life out there, and I'm

1088
00:54:44.039 --> 00:54:48.480
excited about it. On February twenty second, twenty eighteen, Bart Whittaker,

1089
00:54:48.679 --> 00:54:52.320
thirty eight, was served his final meal of chicken enchiladas,

1090
00:54:52.519 --> 00:54:56.360
rice beans, and vegetables. He'd made peace with his impending death,

1091
00:54:56.400 --> 00:54:59.519
scheduled for six PM. His father had visited him earlier

1092
00:54:59.559 --> 00:55:02.199
and said that their final goodbyes. Bart waited in the

1093
00:55:02.239 --> 00:55:04.800
holding cell, less than thirty feet from the death chamber

1094
00:55:04.880 --> 00:55:08.039
where he'd die by lethal injection, hoping for a last

1095
00:55:08.079 --> 00:55:10.960
minute reprieve from the governor. But Greg Abbott towed a

1096
00:55:11.039 --> 00:55:14.920
hard line, believing firmly in capital punishment and the ability

1097
00:55:14.960 --> 00:55:17.639
of juries to make the right decision. He had never

1098
00:55:17.800 --> 00:55:21.000
once intervened in an execution, which made it even more

1099
00:55:21.039 --> 00:55:23.880
shocking when at three point fifty one pm a call

1100
00:55:23.960 --> 00:55:28.159
came in announcing that Abbot had commuted Bart's death sentence,

1101
00:55:28.599 --> 00:55:31.440
the only time the governor had done so since taking

1102
00:55:31.480 --> 00:55:35.719
office in twenty fifteen. Sixty inmates had been executed during

1103
00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:39.719
his tenure. In making his decision, Abbot cited Kent Whittaker's

1104
00:55:39.760 --> 00:55:42.559
passionate plea that he would be a double victim if

1105
00:55:42.559 --> 00:55:45.440
Bart was put to death, and the unanimous vote by

1106
00:55:45.480 --> 00:55:49.159
the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles to commute Bart's sentence,

1107
00:55:49.400 --> 00:55:52.400
the first time they'd done so since two thousand and seven.

1108
00:55:53.079 --> 00:55:56.559
Upon his reprieve, Bart said, I'm thankful for this decision,

1109
00:55:57.000 --> 00:55:59.920
not for me, but for my dad. Whatever punishment i'm

1110
00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:03.000
I have received or will received, will be just. I

1111
00:56:03.079 --> 00:56:06.480
deserve any punishment for my crimes, but my dad did

1112
00:56:06.559 --> 00:56:09.679
nothing wrong. Bart is described by prison staff and fellow

1113
00:56:09.719 --> 00:56:13.079
inmates as a rehabilitated man who is a calming presence

1114
00:56:13.119 --> 00:56:15.840
in the prison and a role model. So for me,

1115
00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:18.719
the question still lingers why a privileged kid would do

1116
00:56:18.800 --> 00:56:21.280
what Bart did. A letter written to his father has

1117
00:56:21.320 --> 00:56:24.079
a few clues. I have been reading the Bible a lot,

1118
00:56:24.119 --> 00:56:26.320
and it's made me think about my faith. I know

1119
00:56:26.400 --> 00:56:28.320
I haven't lived at the way I should. I can

1120
00:56:28.360 --> 00:56:30.599
talk about God, but the way I live is far

1121
00:56:30.639 --> 00:56:33.440
from it. The Bible says God is love, but I

1122
00:56:33.519 --> 00:56:36.559
don't think I really understand what that means. I've said

1123
00:56:36.599 --> 00:56:40.000
I loved people, my fiance, mom, Kevin, but I don't

1124
00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:43.320
know if I ever understood what love actually is. I

1125
00:56:43.400 --> 00:56:47.119
felt things like respect, even relief, but also anger and confusion.

1126
00:56:47.360 --> 00:56:49.920
The truth is, I don't think I've ever really understood

1127
00:56:49.920 --> 00:56:52.480
my own emotions. Most of my life I felt like

1128
00:56:52.519 --> 00:56:54.800
I was pretending, trying to be what I thought I

1129
00:56:54.880 --> 00:56:57.760
was supposed to be, not to deceive, but just to

1130
00:56:57.760 --> 00:57:02.360
become something anything. I felt empty, like a reflection of

1131
00:57:02.360 --> 00:57:04.679
what a person should be, but not the real thing.

1132
00:57:05.239 --> 00:57:07.960
I wish I have lived differently. I wish I had

1133
00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:10.599
made you proud. I'm sorry for the lives I've destroyed

1134
00:57:10.599 --> 00:57:12.880
and for the fact that there's nothing I can do

1135
00:57:13.039 --> 00:57:16.239
to undo it. More than anything, I don't have a

1136
00:57:16.280 --> 00:57:19.559
real explanation for any of this. I've always felt confused,

1137
00:57:19.679 --> 00:57:22.079
like there was something missing me that I could never fix.

1138
00:57:22.480 --> 00:57:25.480
I think in some way I wanted revenge for being born.

1139
00:57:26.199 --> 00:57:27.840
What do you think of his statement?

1140
00:57:27.960 --> 00:57:29.639
I mean, I don't. I don't know what to make

1141
00:57:29.679 --> 00:57:32.360
of it. I think the question of why is still

1142
00:57:33.119 --> 00:57:35.280
it's a baffling one to me.

1143
00:57:35.480 --> 00:57:37.760
If you were Kent, I would be like, I need

1144
00:57:37.800 --> 00:57:38.400
better answers.

1145
00:57:38.599 --> 00:57:41.679
Yeah, I need something to Yeah, it's just very easy.

1146
00:57:41.679 --> 00:57:44.199
So there's a lot of eyes in that letter in statement,

1147
00:57:44.480 --> 00:57:47.320
and I don't think he has truly reflected on the

1148
00:57:47.360 --> 00:57:50.719
pain that he caused to so many other thing.

1149
00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:52.639
That's a good point. Yeah, I don't hear any of

1150
00:57:52.639 --> 00:57:53.360
that in that letter.

1151
00:57:53.639 --> 00:57:57.159
The prosecution portrayed Bart as a spoiled, privileged, suburban kid,

1152
00:57:57.280 --> 00:58:01.159
but mental health experts describe someone struggling with delusional thinking

1153
00:58:01.239 --> 00:58:04.360
that had developed since high school. Bart felt disconnected from

1154
00:58:04.400 --> 00:58:07.960
his own identity, even questioning his name, and placed within

1155
00:58:08.039 --> 00:58:12.639
his family. As his behavior escalated, culminating in the school burglaries,

1156
00:58:12.760 --> 00:58:15.960
his parents placed him in a stricter religious program, a

1157
00:58:16.000 --> 00:58:19.480
move some experts later said may have worsened his condition

1158
00:58:19.559 --> 00:58:23.280
instead of addressing it through therapy or medication. A trial,

1159
00:58:23.400 --> 00:58:27.679
he was labeled a narcissistic sociopath, but clinical psychologists who

1160
00:58:27.679 --> 00:58:31.400
evaluated him said he did not meet that criteria. Instead,

1161
00:58:31.480 --> 00:58:34.960
they saw a young man struggling with isolation and untreated

1162
00:58:35.039 --> 00:58:38.960
mental illness, issues that went largely unaddressed until it was

1163
00:58:39.000 --> 00:58:42.480
too late. Bart later said he never felt fully accepted,

1164
00:58:42.559 --> 00:58:46.039
even coming to resent his own name. He believed that

1165
00:58:46.199 --> 00:58:50.199
Bart tied him to his mother's family, people his father disliked.

1166
00:58:50.519 --> 00:58:53.400
He also recalled as a child that whenever he displayed

1167
00:58:53.719 --> 00:58:56.800
a trait that his father might deem as feminine, it

1168
00:58:56.960 --> 00:59:00.679
upset him, and his father tried to suppress his behaviors.

1169
00:59:01.320 --> 00:59:04.360
Kevin Whittaker loved sports, the outdoors, and his faith, and

1170
00:59:04.400 --> 00:59:07.239
he loved to make people laugh. Tricia Whittaker was a

1171
00:59:07.280 --> 00:59:10.119
devoted wife and mother. Her family and faith were the

1172
00:59:10.159 --> 00:59:13.119
most important things in her life. Rest in peace, Kevin

1173
00:59:13.159 --> 00:59:16.360
and Tricia. In two thousand and nine, Kent remarried. He

1174
00:59:16.480 --> 00:59:19.320
and his wife, Tanya now travel the country as motivational

1175
00:59:19.360 --> 00:59:22.639
speakers focusing on the power of forgiveness. And the years

1176
00:59:22.639 --> 00:59:26.159
that followed the tragedy, Kent Whittaker became known for forgiving

1177
00:59:26.199 --> 00:59:29.360
his son, a decision rooted in his faith. For him,

1178
00:59:29.400 --> 00:59:32.440
it wasn't optional, but forgiveness in a case like this

1179
00:59:32.679 --> 00:59:35.960
is complicated. It may being bring peace to the person

1180
00:59:36.079 --> 00:59:38.480
offering it, but it can also shift the focus of

1181
00:59:38.480 --> 00:59:41.920
the story. Tricia and Kevin can't speak for themselves. What

1182
00:59:42.079 --> 00:59:44.960
remains is the voice of the person who survived Kent's

1183
00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:49.280
forgiveness raises difficult questions. What happens when forgiveness becomes the

1184
00:59:49.320 --> 00:59:52.360
center of the narrative and would the victims have felt

1185
00:59:52.400 --> 00:59:55.679
the same? Where is the justice for them? Art, now

1186
00:59:55.719 --> 00:59:59.360
forty six, resides in the Polunsky Unit in Livingston, Texas,

1187
00:59:59.360 --> 01:00:01.920
where he will likely live out the rest of his days.

1188
01:00:02.199 --> 01:00:05.119
He has earned two degrees while in prison, an undergraduate

1189
01:00:05.159 --> 01:00:08.760
degree in English and a master's in humanities. He facilitates

1190
01:00:08.760 --> 01:00:12.559
a website Minutes before six, where he and other inmates

1191
01:00:12.639 --> 01:00:16.239
share their writing and art. You can find him on Instagram.

1192
01:00:16.480 --> 01:00:17.280
I'm good, thanks.

1193
01:00:18.679 --> 01:00:21.039
I have a lot of thoughts and feelings about this case.

1194
01:00:21.199 --> 01:00:21.559
Yeah.

1195
01:00:21.800 --> 01:00:24.599
First, some of them are just statements. It must be

1196
01:00:24.840 --> 01:00:27.320
so shocking to have the person that you loved and

1197
01:00:27.440 --> 01:00:30.199
raised try to kill you multiple times.

1198
01:00:30.400 --> 01:00:31.239
Yeah, And like.

1199
01:00:31.239 --> 01:00:34.920
I said, some people said that after Kevin and Trisha

1200
01:00:34.960 --> 01:00:37.800
were gone that Bart still had thoughts in instead of

1201
01:00:37.880 --> 01:00:38.920
killing his visity.

1202
01:00:39.119 --> 01:00:42.639
Yeah, yeah, it really is just, yeah, really shocking.

1203
01:00:43.039 --> 01:00:46.400
A lot of people say that Ken's forgiveness was remarkable

1204
01:00:46.519 --> 01:00:49.800
and laud him for this, including Oprah. What do you think?

1205
01:00:50.440 --> 01:00:52.880
It's a really tough question for me to answer. I

1206
01:00:53.320 --> 01:00:57.199
understand the need to in order to move on with

1207
01:00:57.280 --> 01:00:59.920
your life, to be able to forgive, and I know

1208
01:01:00.199 --> 01:01:03.239
that's a really important part of a lot of people's faith.

1209
01:01:03.719 --> 01:01:07.199
I don't know how I would deal with that situation.

1210
01:01:07.559 --> 01:01:10.320
Hopefully I never will have to. Would I would have

1211
01:01:10.360 --> 01:01:13.400
a hard time for giving someone who took you know,

1212
01:01:13.719 --> 01:01:15.199
the people that were that close to.

1213
01:01:15.239 --> 01:01:17.800
I feel like, unless you have experienced a violent crime

1214
01:01:17.880 --> 01:01:20.559
like this, you don't really know how you would react.

1215
01:01:21.159 --> 01:01:24.760
And I think it's fine that Kent chows forgiveness, but

1216
01:01:25.079 --> 01:01:27.800
you know, people tend to hold him put him on

1217
01:01:27.880 --> 01:01:30.159
a past he was able to forgive. I also think

1218
01:01:30.159 --> 01:01:32.360
it's okay if you can't forgive or you don't want

1219
01:01:32.400 --> 01:01:35.000
to forgive, right, Yeah, because you only have one shot

1220
01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:37.639
at life, and if someone is selfish enough to take

1221
01:01:37.639 --> 01:01:41.159
that life like that is an unforgivable act. Yeah, in

1222
01:01:41.199 --> 01:01:42.400
my opinion, Yeah.

1223
01:01:42.239 --> 01:01:44.760
I agree with you. I do think you kind of

1224
01:01:44.760 --> 01:01:48.000
mentioned it, like the forgiveness has become like the focus

1225
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:50.360
of the story, and in a lot of Bart, a

1226
01:01:50.360 --> 01:01:52.159
lot of the things you read from Bart, like no

1227
01:01:52.760 --> 01:01:56.559
one Bart or Kent seem to be talking about the victims.

1228
01:01:56.559 --> 01:01:58.039
I'm sure there's a lot of stuff that Kent has

1229
01:01:58.039 --> 01:02:00.840
said that that was not covered in the episode, but

1230
01:02:01.079 --> 01:02:03.239
it does seem like the focus is more on Bart

1231
01:02:03.440 --> 01:02:04.440
and on forgiveness.

1232
01:02:04.639 --> 01:02:06.599
I just read the rest and Peace segment to you,

1233
01:02:06.880 --> 01:02:09.320
and it was brief because I read this two hundred

1234
01:02:09.320 --> 01:02:12.280
and fifty page book written by Kent, and I really

1235
01:02:12.519 --> 01:02:15.800
don't have a sense who Tricia or Kevin are really.

1236
01:02:16.039 --> 01:02:18.079
I mean, it sounds like they were nice, godly people,

1237
01:02:18.159 --> 01:02:21.039
but there's more to them than that, and he really

1238
01:02:21.280 --> 01:02:24.199
didn't talk about them a whole lot in the aspect

1239
01:02:24.239 --> 01:02:26.679
of getting to know them, and the book is dedicated

1240
01:02:26.719 --> 01:02:28.920
to them. But I think I feel like I'm making

1241
01:02:29.320 --> 01:02:32.239
I'm picking on Kent, because I do think he's probably

1242
01:02:32.280 --> 01:02:34.800
a good person and he was trying his best, but

1243
01:02:35.199 --> 01:02:36.280
it just struck me that.

1244
01:02:36.719 --> 01:02:39.239
It does feel like they've gotten forgotten a little bit.

1245
01:02:39.880 --> 01:02:41.639
Would Kent have forgiven a stranger?

1246
01:02:42.119 --> 01:02:44.400
I mean, I think a person of faith that their

1247
01:02:44.440 --> 01:02:46.559
faith was that important to them. I would think that

1248
01:02:46.639 --> 01:02:50.039
they would find that important as well, But again, I

1249
01:02:50.079 --> 01:02:50.440
don't know.

1250
01:02:50.519 --> 01:02:53.159
I think that. Well, he said that night of the shooting,

1251
01:02:53.400 --> 01:02:55.599
you know, I said I was going to forgive whoever

1252
01:02:55.639 --> 01:02:59.280
did this. Would Tricia and Kevin have forgiven Bart?

1253
01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:03.239
Sound like religion. Their faith was also very important to them.

1254
01:03:03.280 --> 01:03:05.559
And again I think that, you know, I think that

1255
01:03:05.800 --> 01:03:09.199
forgiveness is a really important part, so, you know, perhaps

1256
01:03:09.199 --> 01:03:09.960
hard to say.

1257
01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:12.599
Of course, Bart claimed to some people that he had

1258
01:03:12.679 --> 01:03:14.320
told his mom. I'm not sure if it was the

1259
01:03:14.440 --> 01:03:16.719
night that they went to dinner, but he had told her,

1260
01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:19.760
I'm not graduating from college. I've got some problems, blah

1261
01:03:19.800 --> 01:03:22.840
blah blah. But no one can corroborate that. Of course,

1262
01:03:23.199 --> 01:03:25.880
do you think that Bart is reformed? Did he take

1263
01:03:25.920 --> 01:03:28.360
off the mask or did he just get better at

1264
01:03:28.360 --> 01:03:29.400
manipulating his father.

1265
01:03:29.960 --> 01:03:33.400
I am a skeptic of this whole thing, going back

1266
01:03:33.440 --> 01:03:36.639
to when he was caught in Mexico. You know, he's

1267
01:03:36.679 --> 01:03:38.400
basically trying to tell the story that he was a

1268
01:03:38.480 --> 01:03:41.000
change man. But he didn't turn himself in. He had

1269
01:03:41.039 --> 01:03:42.880
to be caught, So I don't believe that he was

1270
01:03:42.920 --> 01:03:45.360
like on the verge of turning himself in. I think

1271
01:03:45.400 --> 01:03:48.119
through the trial he was trying to avoid the death penalty.

1272
01:03:48.159 --> 01:03:51.719
That was his main goal. In the clips that we played,

1273
01:03:51.760 --> 01:03:54.639
at least I didn't. You know, again, he didn't talk

1274
01:03:54.679 --> 01:03:57.079
about the victims. It's about him, So I don't know.

1275
01:03:57.280 --> 01:03:59.960
I feel like in prison. It sounds like everyone thinks

1276
01:04:00.079 --> 01:04:04.000
he is a good, a positive influence on the other prisoners,

1277
01:04:04.000 --> 01:04:05.639
and that may be the case, but I think that's

1278
01:04:05.679 --> 01:04:08.519
maybe more that he's just accepted that that's where he

1279
01:04:08.639 --> 01:04:10.280
is going to be and he's trying to make the

1280
01:04:10.320 --> 01:04:12.559
best of it. So I don't know, I'm very skeptical.

1281
01:04:12.719 --> 01:04:14.960
Yeah, I'm going to pick on Kent a little more.

1282
01:04:15.119 --> 01:04:17.840
He said some really tone deaf things in his book.

1283
01:04:18.400 --> 01:04:21.320
He said that Bart made some dangerous friends that he

1284
01:04:21.480 --> 01:04:26.800
cultivated away from home. Well, Kent, they didn't kill their parents,

1285
01:04:26.840 --> 01:04:30.760
like your kid is the danger. He was the bad influence.

1286
01:04:31.880 --> 01:04:34.719
He said that he got most things that he asked for,

1287
01:04:34.920 --> 01:04:38.079
and he couldn't believe that Bart hated them because he

1288
01:04:38.119 --> 01:04:39.400
got everything he asked for.

1289
01:04:40.039 --> 01:04:42.719
Yeah, that is pretty tone deaf. That's really not what.

1290
01:04:43.000 --> 01:04:45.400
We never gave him a reason to hate us, Does

1291
01:04:45.440 --> 01:04:46.000
it mean that?

1292
01:04:46.519 --> 01:04:46.880
Yeah?

1293
01:04:47.000 --> 01:04:49.119
Yeah, Now I'm going to pick on Bart a little bit.

1294
01:04:49.239 --> 01:04:51.400
When he called nine to one one, the operator asked

1295
01:04:51.440 --> 01:04:54.079
if the murderer had been white, black, or hispanic, and

1296
01:04:54.159 --> 01:04:57.960
Bart responded, I think black, which really bothered me because

1297
01:04:57.960 --> 01:04:59.880
he knew the murderer was white, and it felt like,

1298
01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:01.400
you know, that's just.

1299
01:05:01.760 --> 01:05:05.800
Yeah, it's trying to point the finger at somebody of color,

1300
01:05:05.960 --> 01:05:08.639
and yeah, just knowing that that would be, you know,

1301
01:05:08.679 --> 01:05:09.559
become the narrative.

1302
01:05:09.920 --> 01:05:12.480
Yeah, and I talked about the final picture that they'd

1303
01:05:12.480 --> 01:05:15.400
taken in front of the fireplace. In the picture, and

1304
01:05:15.440 --> 01:05:18.800
I'm pretty sure that he did this surreptitiously. He's flipping off.

1305
01:05:19.000 --> 01:05:21.599
Bart is flipping off the camera. Yeah, but it was

1306
01:05:21.639 --> 01:05:24.000
like the show. I'll post a picture of it, but

1307
01:05:24.239 --> 01:05:26.000
you know, he was doing it like this, and I

1308
01:05:26.119 --> 01:05:29.239
just thought that's disgusting. First of all, your parents just

1309
01:05:29.280 --> 01:05:32.280
gave you a Rolex watch. They've given you. Not that

1310
01:05:32.639 --> 01:05:35.360
parenting is about giving your kids things, because it's not.

1311
01:05:35.840 --> 01:05:38.480
But it was just so disturbing that he knew that

1312
01:05:38.719 --> 01:05:40.239
he had set up this murder. They were going to

1313
01:05:40.360 --> 01:05:43.079
die within a couple of hours, and he's flipping off

1314
01:05:43.119 --> 01:05:46.760
the camera. Yeah. I also wanted to mention that what's

1315
01:05:46.800 --> 01:05:50.480
going on in Texas with your young men? And like,

1316
01:05:50.639 --> 01:05:53.599
there were six I was going five or six people

1317
01:05:53.800 --> 01:05:56.880
that Bart was able to convince to kill his.

1318
01:05:56.800 --> 01:06:00.599
Family multiple plots, right, and yeah, they all like at

1319
01:06:00.679 --> 01:06:03.320
least to a certain point where they had talked about it.

1320
01:06:03.320 --> 01:06:04.440
It was pretty serious.

1321
01:06:04.719 --> 01:06:06.159
Yeah, that's really shocking.

1322
01:06:06.400 --> 01:06:08.800
Yeah, very disturbing. I think most of the kids were

1323
01:06:08.960 --> 01:06:11.920
kind of like Bart, like they came from affluent families.

1324
01:06:12.039 --> 01:06:17.000
And yeah, I'm curious what Bart's life is like in prison,

1325
01:06:17.559 --> 01:06:21.400
especially on death row, because his life is so he's growing,

1326
01:06:21.440 --> 01:06:23.320
the way he grew up was so different than most

1327
01:06:23.320 --> 01:06:25.599
people on death row, and I would think that they

1328
01:06:25.719 --> 01:06:28.719
would be like, who is this punk kid who had

1329
01:06:28.760 --> 01:06:30.719
everything handed to him his whole life?

1330
01:06:30.800 --> 01:06:33.159
Right, Yeah, it's got to be and he's the.

1331
01:06:33.119 --> 01:06:35.599
One whom his sentence was commuted.

1332
01:06:35.840 --> 01:06:38.440
One thing I wanted to touch on before we close

1333
01:06:38.760 --> 01:06:42.960
is the fact that Greg Abbot commuted his death sentence

1334
01:06:43.239 --> 01:06:44.280
and that was the first time he.

1335
01:06:44.239 --> 01:06:47.280
Had done that and he has not done it since.

1336
01:06:47.360 --> 01:06:50.440
Yeah, I remember that Greg Abbott was very pro death penalty.

1337
01:06:50.559 --> 01:06:53.639
I'm really curious kind of the reasoning behind him. I mean,

1338
01:06:53.679 --> 01:06:55.280
you talked about it a little bit, but it just

1339
01:06:55.320 --> 01:06:58.719
seems odd to me that this was the one person

1340
01:06:58.760 --> 01:06:59.679
he chose to.

1341
01:06:59.599 --> 01:07:01.800
Comput because he was a privileged white kid.

1342
01:07:01.960 --> 01:07:04.559
Well I do sort of a kid, yeah, but yeah,

1343
01:07:04.599 --> 01:07:06.320
I do. I do sort of feel like that it

1344
01:07:06.360 --> 01:07:08.800
probably was partly it could have been to do with that.

1345
01:07:09.199 --> 01:07:12.320
It also may have been the religious aspect of it,

1346
01:07:12.360 --> 01:07:15.159
that they were claiming that he was a changed man

1347
01:07:15.239 --> 01:07:17.920
and all this, but it just it it bothers me.

1348
01:07:18.159 --> 01:07:20.519
I am not I know there everyone has different opinions

1349
01:07:20.559 --> 01:07:23.320
on the death penalty, and I think all all opinions

1350
01:07:23.360 --> 01:07:26.719
are valid. I personally am opposed to it. But it

1351
01:07:26.800 --> 01:07:30.559
bothers me that there was a different, a different justice

1352
01:07:30.880 --> 01:07:33.239
for Bart than there is for all these other people

1353
01:07:33.239 --> 01:07:34.159
who are on death row.

1354
01:07:34.360 --> 01:07:36.880
Right, people commit crimes for a lot of reason, but

1355
01:07:36.960 --> 01:07:39.880
this this was just a crime. Yeah, we're not even

1356
01:07:39.920 --> 01:07:43.079
sure why. I know people say it was for the inheritance.

1357
01:07:43.199 --> 01:07:47.800
But parents bought him this Yukon, which is not a

1358
01:07:47.880 --> 01:07:51.679
cheap vehicle, right, they bought him I mean I don't. Well,

1359
01:07:51.840 --> 01:07:53.519
he was living in the Lakehouse, which was a very

1360
01:07:53.599 --> 01:07:56.039
nice house. Yeah, but then he was living I couldn't

1361
01:07:56.079 --> 01:07:58.440
find the house that he lived at, can't describe it

1362
01:07:58.480 --> 01:08:01.480
as a smaller house. But still, and they weren't I

1363
01:08:01.480 --> 01:08:04.840
think they had money, but they weren't like stripping in money.

1364
01:08:04.880 --> 01:08:07.320
I think that they just gave their kids a lot,

1365
01:08:07.760 --> 01:08:10.480
maybe things that they necessarily Oh the other thing that

1366
01:08:10.519 --> 01:08:14.320
I almost forgot to mention that remember when Bart went

1367
01:08:14.360 --> 01:08:17.720
to Mexico and he had ten thousand dollars that he

1368
01:08:17.840 --> 01:08:20.840
stole from his dad. Kent in his book didn't talk

1369
01:08:20.880 --> 01:08:23.399
about it until later. He talked about it like at

1370
01:08:23.399 --> 01:08:25.640
the trial because it was brought up again. He had

1371
01:08:25.760 --> 01:08:29.560
told Bart, well, it was after for y two K

1372
01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:32.800
when everyone was like, oh, you need money, We don't.

1373
01:08:33.119 --> 01:08:34.800
I think we're the only people and it sounds like

1374
01:08:34.800 --> 01:08:36.359
we're the only people that don't have a safe full

1375
01:08:36.399 --> 01:08:39.000
of money. But he had money like that had been

1376
01:08:39.039 --> 01:08:42.159
in his safe since y two K. And he mentioned

1377
01:08:42.159 --> 01:08:44.239
it to Bart and he said he did it intentionally.

1378
01:08:44.760 --> 01:08:47.039
He wasn't saying you should leave, but he was like, hey,

1379
01:08:47.079 --> 01:08:49.159
I've got this money, so he thought it was Yeah,

1380
01:08:49.239 --> 01:08:51.039
he said it was ten thousand, which I'm like, it

1381
01:08:51.039 --> 01:08:53.680
could have been more. We don't really know. Well, that

1382
01:08:53.800 --> 01:08:55.960
is the horrible story of the Whitaker family.

1383
01:08:56.239 --> 01:08:57.960
Horrible and really interesting.

1384
01:09:03.560 --> 01:09:05.920
All right, before we go, I have to ask your

1385
01:09:05.920 --> 01:09:08.880
opinion on something. You travel a fair bit. You haven't

1386
01:09:08.880 --> 01:09:11.199
been on too many trips in twenty twenty six. Yeah,

1387
01:09:11.680 --> 01:09:13.920
but how do you think that people should dress on

1388
01:09:13.960 --> 01:09:15.960
airplanes comfortably?

1389
01:09:16.560 --> 01:09:18.800
I think whatever makes you comfortable.

1390
01:09:18.640 --> 01:09:20.479
I find whatever makes you comfortable.

1391
01:09:20.840 --> 01:09:24.560
No, okay, not whatever makes you comfortable whatever to see

1392
01:09:24.600 --> 01:09:26.680
where this is going. You want to, you know, you

1393
01:09:26.720 --> 01:09:29.640
want to dress appropriately and tastefully. You don't want to

1394
01:09:29.640 --> 01:09:32.319
have your feet, your bare feet sticking out. I don't

1395
01:09:32.319 --> 01:09:34.439
know if that's where this is going, you know, but

1396
01:09:34.600 --> 01:09:36.239
you want to. But you want to be comfortable because

1397
01:09:36.279 --> 01:09:38.239
airplanes can be hot or cold, so you want to

1398
01:09:38.279 --> 01:09:40.920
be you know, prepared for whatever it might be.

1399
01:09:40.960 --> 01:09:42.920
Like, what about kids? Do you think anything should go

1400
01:09:42.960 --> 01:09:43.439
for kids?

1401
01:09:44.119 --> 01:09:46.600
I know, you should just tell me where you're going

1402
01:09:46.640 --> 01:09:46.960
with this.

1403
01:09:46.840 --> 01:09:50.560
Because well, I just recently read that an airline has

1404
01:09:50.680 --> 01:09:56.279
prohibited people from wearing pajamas crocs on airplanes. I feel

1405
01:09:56.279 --> 01:09:59.680
like crocs is that's kind of ridiculous, because that's like

1406
01:09:59.720 --> 01:10:02.960
the I don't I don't really wear cracks and I

1407
01:10:03.000 --> 01:10:05.159
wouldn't wear them on a flight. But I mean that's

1408
01:10:05.159 --> 01:10:06.000
a great shoot.

1409
01:10:06.479 --> 01:10:08.399
I think that would be pretty comfortable.

1410
01:10:08.479 --> 01:10:08.640
Yeah.

1411
01:10:08.760 --> 01:10:12.000
Yeah. And pajamas, I feel like, I mean.

1412
01:10:11.680 --> 01:10:14.039
As long as they're you know, just a lot of

1413
01:10:14.079 --> 01:10:18.319
pajamas are a lot of pajamas are just like pants,

1414
01:10:18.359 --> 01:10:19.720
like sweatpants almost.

1415
01:10:20.159 --> 01:10:23.239
I just feel like I can't understand why an airline

1416
01:10:23.239 --> 01:10:26.439
would really care I can't either. Like wearing socks and

1417
01:10:26.520 --> 01:10:28.880
not having smelly feet, I think is really important. But

1418
01:10:28.920 --> 01:10:31.800
other than that, I feel like anything should go.

1419
01:10:32.880 --> 01:10:35.760
Travel is everybody is crazy in the world of travel.

1420
01:10:35.880 --> 01:10:39.039
I just read the other day that an airline they

1421
01:10:39.439 --> 01:10:42.479
kicked there was a deaf woman on the airplane and

1422
01:10:42.520 --> 01:10:45.720
they kicked her off the plane because she wasn't listening

1423
01:10:45.920 --> 01:10:47.239
to their instructions.

1424
01:10:47.600 --> 01:10:49.119
I never listened to that instruction.

1425
01:10:49.239 --> 01:10:54.159
But she's deaf. She's deaf. She can't listen to your instructions,

1426
01:10:54.159 --> 01:10:56.680
and I didn't. I shouldn't even talk about it because

1427
01:10:56.720 --> 01:10:58.319
I don't know the details, but I just read a

1428
01:10:58.359 --> 01:11:00.640
little bit about that. I'm like that, what what's going on?

1429
01:11:00.720 --> 01:11:01.119
I don't know.

1430
01:11:01.279 --> 01:11:03.479
Well, you had a role of not wearing shorts, just

1431
01:11:03.520 --> 01:11:05.600
a personal role for you, like you didn't want to

1432
01:11:05.640 --> 01:11:08.399
travel if you were wearing shorts. I think you've broken

1433
01:11:08.479 --> 01:11:10.319
that a couple of years going.

1434
01:11:10.520 --> 01:11:12.560
Yeah, but I do feel I don't know why, but

1435
01:11:12.600 --> 01:11:14.600
I feel a little weird wearing shorts on airplanes.

1436
01:11:14.640 --> 01:11:16.800
Part you're going to be hot or cold, that's part

1437
01:11:16.840 --> 01:11:17.000
of it.

1438
01:11:17.039 --> 01:11:18.520
And part of it is like your the back of

1439
01:11:18.520 --> 01:11:20.840
your legs stick on the seat and the seats are

1440
01:11:20.840 --> 01:11:23.640
a little gross made potentially, you know, but yeah, I

1441
01:11:23.720 --> 01:11:25.800
usually I usually just go with jeans and a T

1442
01:11:25.920 --> 01:11:26.840
shirt or sweatshirt.

1443
01:11:27.039 --> 01:11:29.600
I think I usually wear leggings and a hoodie or

1444
01:11:29.680 --> 01:11:32.479
something like that, you know, yeah, comfort, which I would

1445
01:11:32.520 --> 01:11:33.800
wear those things to beds, so.

1446
01:11:34.159 --> 01:11:35.680
I don't know they are your pajamas.

1447
01:11:35.880 --> 01:11:38.279
One more thing before we go, I was clicking around

1448
01:11:38.359 --> 01:11:40.880
Netflix looking for a show to watch and I found

1449
01:11:40.920 --> 01:11:42.920
a show. I think it's from a few years ago.

1450
01:11:43.000 --> 01:11:47.920
It's called Soulmates, and it's very black mirrorish. I think

1451
01:11:47.960 --> 01:11:51.279
there are five or six episodes, and I've watched two

1452
01:11:51.279 --> 01:11:53.079
and a half of them so far. But the gist

1453
01:11:53.159 --> 01:11:56.039
of it is you can take a test and this

1454
01:11:56.239 --> 01:11:59.319
test will show you you have one soulmate, and if

1455
01:11:59.319 --> 01:12:01.760
you take the test, you'll find out who. You'll find

1456
01:12:01.760 --> 01:12:02.840
out who your soulmate is.

1457
01:12:03.119 --> 01:12:05.159
Weird because there is a black Mirror episode that is

1458
01:12:05.640 --> 01:12:08.239
very similar in theme as I recall, but.

1459
01:12:08.319 --> 01:12:10.399
I'm not sure if it was from AMC or where

1460
01:12:10.439 --> 01:12:13.399
this show is from originally. But yeah, it's a very

1461
01:12:13.560 --> 01:12:16.960
It's an interesting idea, and so I oppose that question

1462
01:12:17.119 --> 01:12:19.840
to you. Am I your soulmate?

1463
01:12:20.159 --> 01:12:20.680
Of course?

1464
01:12:23.039 --> 01:12:25.439
But truly though, if there was a test that you

1465
01:12:25.439 --> 01:12:27.520
could take and find your soulmate even though we've been

1466
01:12:27.520 --> 01:12:30.600
married for six hundred and ninety two years. Now, would

1467
01:12:30.840 --> 01:12:31.960
would you take the test?

1468
01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:35.199
If you want to take it? Saying now, yeah, no,

1469
01:12:35.279 --> 01:12:36.279
I'm not going to take it now.

1470
01:12:36.720 --> 01:12:38.600
So the first episode of this, I don't want to

1471
01:12:38.600 --> 01:12:40.319
give too much away, but that's what Like, this couple

1472
01:12:40.319 --> 01:12:43.119
has been married. There seemed like a great couple. They're

1473
01:12:43.159 --> 01:12:46.239
really happy, and she, well, what happens is a lot

1474
01:12:46.279 --> 01:12:48.159
of people in their lives start taking the test. Like

1475
01:12:48.199 --> 01:12:51.359
her brother takes the test. Okay, he seems super happy

1476
01:12:51.359 --> 01:12:53.600
with his new wife, and then you know, her friends

1477
01:12:53.640 --> 01:12:56.159
everyone's talking about the test, and she's like, should stop

1478
01:12:56.199 --> 01:12:58.479
talking about the test, I'm happily married. And then she

1479
01:12:58.560 --> 01:12:59.720
just keeps thinking about.

1480
01:12:59.439 --> 01:13:01.279
It and she ends up taking it.

1481
01:13:01.399 --> 01:13:03.479
I mean, I'm not going to talk about it, but yeah,

1482
01:13:03.840 --> 01:13:04.920
you wouldn't take the test?

1483
01:13:05.119 --> 01:13:06.920
No, I'm in it. I'm committed.

1484
01:13:06.960 --> 01:13:11.199
Now, well you committed. I think I would be super

1485
01:13:11.279 --> 01:13:13.840
duper curious. I don't know if I would take the test,

1486
01:13:14.000 --> 01:13:17.720
because I mean the just like you would end your marriage, because.

1487
01:13:17.680 --> 01:13:20.880
That is, you would take the test. I'm super duper curious.

1488
01:13:21.159 --> 01:13:24.239
I don't really believe in soulmates. I feel like people

1489
01:13:24.680 --> 01:13:27.680
comment a lot on our relationship and they say, you

1490
01:13:27.720 --> 01:13:30.119
guys are such a great couple, and you know, you

1491
01:13:30.119 --> 01:13:32.039
seem to love each other a lot, and those things

1492
01:13:32.079 --> 01:13:34.760
are true. But I think a lot of that is

1493
01:13:34.800 --> 01:13:38.119
because we're both pretty nice people and we like each other.

1494
01:13:38.399 --> 01:13:41.359
And I noticed that you commented on somebody's comment that

1495
01:13:41.399 --> 01:13:44.039
we like each other ninety eight point of the time.

1496
01:13:44.159 --> 01:13:48.039
What I said, it's a little surprised you think that's high. Well,

1497
01:13:48.239 --> 01:13:51.520
that's too like we're doing a podcast where I mean,

1498
01:13:51.560 --> 01:13:53.800
we fight on the air, and I do like purposely

1499
01:13:53.880 --> 01:13:57.159
snipe at you sometimes just to be funny. But who

1500
01:13:57.239 --> 01:13:59.000
we do get along really well for the most part.

1501
01:13:59.079 --> 01:14:01.159
But yeah, the sac thing on the floor in the.

1502
01:14:01.079 --> 01:14:03.560
Bedroom, though, I don't know I'm going to work on that.

1503
01:14:03.960 --> 01:14:07.520
Well, you've wasted another hour and fifteen minutes or whatever

1504
01:14:07.760 --> 01:14:11.680
long this episode is listening to us. Do you know who?

1505
01:14:11.720 --> 01:14:14.479
That's a shout out to Car Talk the Card Talk Guys.

1506
01:14:14.640 --> 01:14:17.039
That was one of the first radio shows I ever

1507
01:14:17.119 --> 01:14:19.439
listened to, and it was the best. I didn't wasn't

1508
01:14:19.479 --> 01:14:21.439
into cars, but I love the Card Talk Guys so much.

1509
01:14:21.520 --> 01:14:24.000
Well, if people haven't listened to it too. Also, our

1510
01:14:24.199 --> 01:14:26.399
don't kill your husband, don't kill your wife is also

1511
01:14:26.439 --> 01:14:28.239
a shout out to car Talk, because at the end

1512
01:14:28.239 --> 01:14:30.960
of every episode they would say, don't drive like my brother,

1513
01:14:31.079 --> 01:14:32.039
don't drive like my bro.

1514
01:14:32.640 --> 01:14:35.039
Oh my gosh, yeah, oh so much to the car

1515
01:14:35.159 --> 01:14:39.279
Talk guys. The car Talk it was, Yeah, they're they're

1516
01:14:39.319 --> 01:14:41.640
fabulous fellas. I always wanted them to be like my dad.

1517
01:14:42.279 --> 01:14:44.600
Do you want to thank our chauffeur pick up and

1518
01:14:44.680 --> 01:14:45.239
drop off?

1519
01:14:46.119 --> 01:14:48.239
I loved how they always did that too. I've thought

1520
01:14:48.279 --> 01:14:50.560
about coming up with like a list like that sometime

1521
01:14:50.640 --> 01:14:51.640
to close our show.

1522
01:14:51.479 --> 01:14:57.239
But she we did them. Wait, all right, Well, thank

1523
01:14:57.239 --> 01:14:59.880
you so much sincerely for hanging out with us and listening.

1524
01:15:00.119 --> 01:15:02.520
You are all the best and we appreciate all your

1525
01:15:02.520 --> 01:15:03.640
support and friendship.

1526
01:15:03.880 --> 01:15:07.680
Find us on social media including TikTok and YouTube. Send

1527
01:15:07.760 --> 01:15:11.079
us an email at lovemarykillat gmail dot com.

1528
01:15:11.079 --> 01:15:14.880
Please rate, review, follow and subscribe, engage with us on

1529
01:15:14.920 --> 01:15:17.159
social media, and what else do we have?

1530
01:15:18.000 --> 01:15:19.760
I would just give some advice.

1531
01:15:19.840 --> 01:15:23.079
Don't kill your word, don't name your kid anything that

1532
01:15:23.399 --> 01:15:27.720
rhymes with fart that is really sound. It's till next time.

1533
01:15:27.880 --> 01:15:30.079
Don't kill your wife, and don't cure your husband.

1534
01:16:01.840 --> 01:16:03.000
To a bank

1535
01:16:04.560 --> 01:16:04.600
To